[HN Gopher] The Impact of the Kaspersky Ban
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       The Impact of the Kaspersky Ban
        
       Author : cyberlurker
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2024-07-09 17:20 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bitsight.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bitsight.com)
        
       | mmmlinux wrote:
       | Is this retaliation for that time they detected unreleased NSA
       | spyware? Has there ever been shown to be a security breach
       | related, or is this just Russia bad? genuinely curious.
        
         | golergka wrote:
         | Kaspersky has been in FSB's pocket since forever. Banning
         | hostile foreign intelligence from providing security services
         | to your country is one of the very rare pieces of regulation
         | even a staunch minarchist would support.
        
           | ahofmann wrote:
           | Following this argument, the whole world needs to stop using
           | software from the USA (and china, and Russia and ...).
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | OK. They can do that.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | One could say it's similar to the reasons for banning TikTok
         | (concerns about state control of software), but in general,
         | it's an expanding of existing trade sanctions against Russia.
        
           | fred_is_fred wrote:
           | Tik-Tok and an Anti-virus program have pretty different
           | privilege levels I would think. And generally one doesn't
           | install Tik-Tok on servers in the data center, but I guess I
           | could be surprised.
        
         | alfalfasprout wrote:
         | Antivirus software typically requires some level of privileged
         | access. Given Kaspersky's deep collaboration with the Kremlin
         | it's a serious attack vector.
        
         | axpvms wrote:
         | Russia is bad though, they just bombed a children's cancer
         | hospital yesterday.
        
           | greenavocado wrote:
           | I can post a list a mile long of war crimes committed by each
           | side.
        
             | kspacewalk2 wrote:
             | Each side of what? Are you attempting to draw equivalency
             | between the actions of Ukraine and Russia?
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | The war is between the US (allies) and Russia. Ukraine is
               | just a proxy country. Did the war start with the invasion
               | of Ukraine or many years before when NATO decided it
               | needed to expand?
        
               | jiggawatts wrote:
               | Sigh.
               | 
               | Ukraine _begged_ to join NATO because they saw this
               | coming a mile off.
               | 
               | They're still begging.
               | 
               | Asking to join the neighbourhood security watch is
               | offensive only to burglars.
        
               | rcxdude wrote:
               | It most certainly started years ago when Russia invaded
               | and annexed parts of Ukraine in 2014. Ukraine was
               | lukewarm at best to the idea of NATO before that (and in
               | fact, substantial parts of it were very pro-Russia, a
               | sentiment which quickly changed when they saw what
               | happened to the people in the areas of Ukraine under
               | Russian control).
        
           | jmprspret wrote:
           | The US government, DoD, CIA, etc are all "bad" too. I'm not
           | excusing Russia's actions, but if you're going the moral high
           | ground, on civilian murder, you should be avoid US companies
           | as well.
        
         | gregw2 wrote:
         | The clearest most specific summary explanation I have seen is:
         | 
         | https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/10/kaspe...
         | Note the Israeli findings and the months of experiments by US
         | intel agencies after the fact and the conclusions they drew.
         | 
         | The initial counterargument from Kaspersky (which seems to
         | address some but not other concerns raised in the above link)
         | apparently was something like the following:
         | 
         | https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/kaspe...
         | 
         | Both the above are from 2017 in the months after the issues
         | about Kaspersky concerns first came to light. This triggered
         | the ban of Kaspersky from US government computers back then.
         | Not sure what info may or may not have come to light since then
         | but most people are not even aware of the above.
         | 
         | The official 2024 USG reasons which impact are outlined in four
         | bullets in the press release here: https://www.bis.gov/press-
         | release/commerce-department-prohib... which in turn points to
         | an ODNI (Office of the Director of National Intelligence)
         | public-facing PDF/slide of the reasons:
         | https://www.dni.gov/files/CTIIC/documents/products/Kaspersky...
         | and the US Commerce department's findings at
         | https://oicts.bis.gov/pdfs/AppendixA.pdf (mostly blacked out
         | but you get a sense of the back-n-forth reasoning justifying
         | what steps short of a ban could be taken at least a little bit)
         | and the Commerce Department Kaspersky FAQ at
         | https://oicts.bis.gov/kaspersky/faq/
         | 
         | I have no first/secondhand knowledge of any of this stuff but
         | this is what my curiosity turned up when I went poking around.
         | 
         | Having observed corporate US security practices, my perception
         | is that a lot of protection involves scanning things using very
         | low-level OS and/or network techniques. Remember that phrase
         | "who guards the guardians? (
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...
         | ) The Kaspersky ban by the US Commerce department appears to be
         | essentially a concession that "who scans the scanners?" is not
         | something the US can particularly do for products with the type
         | of low-level access provided to AV/malware products,
         | particularly products from entities with a concrete history of
         | specific adverse (2014-2017) behavior from a particularly
         | skilled hostile country (in this case Russia).
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | Forget the ongoing military conflict, and Russia is a hostile
         | US IC rival. We did much the same thing with Huawei, for
         | reasons much more complex than "China bad".
        
       | ReDeiPirati wrote:
       | Leaving aside the valuable politics concern, I honestly love
       | Kaspersky, it's the only AV that doesn't suck or become too
       | spammy. Which alternative would you recommend? Please don't say
       | Norton
        
         | mathisdiego wrote:
         | ESET is pretty good. Has a low false positive rate too which I
         | loved about Kaspersky.
        
           | PenguinCoder wrote:
           | ESET has my recommendations for the same reason. Really good
           | and way more light weight than many other solutions. Though
           | I'd say anything more than Windows Defender for home users
           | really isn't needed.
        
         | jmprspret wrote:
         | From an enterprise perspective (only because I don't use it on
         | my personal machines), TrendMicro has really been improving. I
         | highly recommend it.
        
       | kelsolaar wrote:
       | > Looking back into the recent weeks, we observed over 14 million
       | unique IP addresses communicating with Kaspersky update servers,
       | making a total of over 100 million connections.
       | 
       | How is Bitsight "observing" here?
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-09 23:01 UTC)