[HN Gopher] Evolve Bank and Trust confirms LockBit stole 7.6M pe...
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       Evolve Bank and Trust confirms LockBit stole 7.6M people's data
        
       Author : LinuxBender
       Score  : 118 points
       Date   : 2024-07-09 14:01 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | Temporary_31337 wrote:
       | As the article explains any Wise (a fintech popular for travel
       | debit cards and cheap intl money transfers) that had USD balance
       | was exposed with the breach.
        
         | seanhunter wrote:
         | ...and Wise is the company that used to be known as
         | "TransferWise".[1] So it's possible there are a few people who
         | had an old transferwise account lurking around somewhere that
         | now have had their deets stolen and haven't even realised yet.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.pymnts.com/news/cross-border-commerce/cross-
         | bord...
        
         | scrollaway wrote:
         | That doesn't seem right to me. Wise moved away from EBT a year
         | or so ago. They may not be done moving away from them but my
         | Wise USD balance is not with EBT anymore and they confirmed by
         | email I was not affected by the breach.
        
           | gen3 wrote:
           | How did you get them to confirm for you? The best I got was
           | 
           | "Right now, we know it is possible some of your personal
           | information may have been breached. We do not have further
           | details to share, but we encourage you to stay vigilant in
           | monitoring your financial activity.
           | 
           | Please be advised that Wise remains secure, as is your
           | account. This breach did not impact our systems. However,
           | keep an eye on any suspicious activity and make sure to
           | report it."
        
             | scrollaway wrote:
             | Here is the email I received on June 28:
             | 
             | There's been a data breach at Evolve Bank & Trust.
             | 
             | Evolve Bank & Trust is a regulated bank that we worked with
             | from 2020 until 2023 to provide your old USD account
             | details. They've recently been affected by a data breach
             | and some of your personal information may have been
             | involved.
             | 
             | This personal information does not include copies of any of
             | the identification documents you've shared with us -- these
             | have not been shared with Evolve Bank & Trust at any point.
             | 
             | Your Wise account is safe We no longer work with Evolve
             | Bank & Trust, and have already strengthened our security
             | measures. We've also started a thorough investigation into
             | this data breach and can confirm that it has not impacted
             | our systems. This means:
             | 
             | * your Wise account credentials, including your password,
             | are safe, and you can use your account as normal
             | 
             | * you can continue to use your USD account details -- these
             | are no longer connected to Evolve Bank & Trust
             | 
             | * you can continue to use any Wise cards you may have as
             | they were not impacted by this issue - your card number and
             | PIN are safe
        
               | gen3 wrote:
               | I received the same thing. What they don't say is if your
               | routing/account number used in transfers to/from your
               | Wise account has been leaked. Same for any KYC info that
               | the bank might need, such as name or SSN.
        
               | scrollaway wrote:
               | The EBT routing and account numbers are no longer valid
               | since they migrated so even if they leaked that is
               | irrelevant. But you're right about personal data, I
               | suspect names leaked.
        
               | gen3 wrote:
               | I transferred funds between wise and my savings account.
               | I assume my routing/account to my savings has been leaked
        
               | trollbridge wrote:
               | And Evolve has allegedly been sending cease-and-desists
               | to journalists who wanted to look at the leaked data:
               | 
               | https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/02/evolve-bank-sent-a-
               | cease-a...
               | 
               | Journalists are the only ones at this point giving us any
               | transparency into the whole situation.
        
               | abridgett wrote:
               | I've asked them: a) _what_ details may have been
               | involved. Currently the criminals know more than we do.
               | b) why EBT had any data if Wise stopped working with then
               | in 2023.
               | 
               | I'd except there to be a fairly strong obligation
               | (probably on both parties) under GDPR to ensure that EBT
               | destroyed that data.
               | 
               | I'll be following up
        
         | sixhobbits wrote:
         | Yeah I think Wise new about this long before it became public.
         | We had our USD receiving account details shut down with like 2
         | weeks notice which caused massive cashflow problems as we had
         | to get all customers to redo payments.
         | 
         | And I know some people had it at like 1-2 days notice. I blamed
         | wise at the time but I guess their hands were tied if they knew
         | about this but weren't allowed to talk about it.
        
       | hiatus wrote:
       | Mercury.com users and Yotta users seem to be affected, among
       | others.
        
       | lowkey_ wrote:
       | Can someone explain why in the world Evolve has my data? (I use
       | Mercury and Wise for my company). I tried going to their website
       | and I'm still completely clueless.
       | 
       | Edit: Apparently Mercury was using Evolve as their banking
       | partner. I know this is super common w/ online neobanks, but I'm
       | really confused as to why they always choose the most random
       | obscure bank. Why not partner with a major bank, or Column?
        
         | ibash wrote:
         | Fintechs partner with banks like evolve to do the actual
         | banking.
         | 
         | So when you open an account with mercury, under the hood
         | they're opening an bank account with a bank and sending
         | transactions through it.
         | 
         | There's a lot of kyc/kyb regulation around financial services.
         | Eg banks can't provide services to certain people. So the
         | underlying bank needs to know who you are.
         | 
         | > Why not partner with a major bank, or Column?
         | 
         | Column didn't exist when mercury was founded. And it's not that
         | easy to secure a banking partner. Its not like signing up for a
         | free checking account.
        
         | vikramkr wrote:
         | parnering with these sorts of companies and providing banking
         | services/underwriting is a complex product line of its own. The
         | major banks aren't necessarily in that market or open for
         | partnerships. And being big doesn't mean they'd be better at it
         | - Goldman's partnership with apple is an example of the big
         | bank not exactly getting it right. These are very complicated
         | negotiated partnerships, not exactly plug and play lol.
        
         | jldugger wrote:
         | Wise also previously used Evolve, so it's not exactly random.
         | One imagines the fact that it's cheap explains why it was used
         | by these services and at least partially why it got hit by
         | ransomware.
        
         | spatulon wrote:
         | After Wise moved away from Evolve to Community Federal Savings
         | Bank, they gave me new account details that included an address
         | in New York.
         | 
         | Looking that up on Google Maps and Street View, it appeared to
         | be a small branch in Brooklyn, on a street that looked
         | immediately familiar to me as the starting area in Grand Theft
         | Auto IV.
        
         | trollbridge wrote:
         | An act of Congress (I believe it was Dodd-Frank) capped debit
         | card fees at a very low amount (fractions of a precent). An
         | exception was left in for small banks to continue to charge
         | credit-card-like rates for debit cards, around 2%.
         | 
         | Since then, every fintech has had essentially the same business
         | model:
         | 
         | - Come up with some kind of "innovative" thing to sell
         | consumers on that results in them generating debit card
         | transactions. (Online bank account, instant international money
         | transfer, loan, etc.) - the trick is that to get the money, you
         | swipe that debit card.
         | 
         | - Partner with some small bank so that they are one the one
         | providing the debit card. The law essentially has a loophole on
         | it allowing this.
         | 
         | - The fintech company sets up essentially everything, with all
         | the small bank does is have automated accounts created for
         | cardholders when the fintech's software says so. No money is
         | kept in the customer account until the moment of that debit
         | card swipe - then it is instantly transferred in and instantly
         | transferred back out for the payment.
         | 
         | - This requires reserves, but the fintechs and small banks
         | collaborate on how to get good interest on the reserves
         | involved.
         | 
         | There are now fintechs which offer "fintech as a service" which
         | will set all of this up for a tiny bank who can then offer this
         | to any other fintech with almost no involvement from the tiny
         | bank. All they have to do is sign a few papers.
         | 
         | The definition of a big or small bank is based on the amount on
         | deposit, so they are careful to not actually have any money on
         | deposit.
         | 
         | Congress needs to correct this abuse, immediately, and only
         | allow the larger debit card fees for traditional checking
         | accounts held by consumers where the money involved is held on
         | deposit at that bank.
         | 
         | Edit: one of the major problems here is that small banks are
         | often not staffed for adequate cybersecurity for global
         | operations like these; they do just fine doing hometown
         | community banking, but are very vulnerable to being cracked
         | like this. Yet another reason small banks that are providing
         | big-bank services should be regulated like big banks.
        
           | cal5k wrote:
           | The key to keeping debit card fees down isn't to legislate a
           | fee cap, it's to make payment rails more open and
           | competitive.
           | 
           | Why are regulators still attacking stablecoins, for example,
           | when they represent one type of innovation that could
           | actually lower transaction costs? Creating a legislative
           | framework that encourages innovation rather than stifles it
           | would make a lot more sense than trying to micromanage fees.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 ("HN: FedNow
             | Is Live")
             | 
             | https://www.frbservices.org/financial-
             | services/fednow/organi...
             | 
             | https://explore.fednow.org/explore-the-
             | city?id=3&building=ne...
             | 
             | $25/month to plug into FedNow instant payment rails, 5
             | cents to move up to $100k in value (initial limit, max is
             | $500k), 20 second settlement SLA.
        
               | jabroni_salad wrote:
               | This technically exists but can you actually use it? It
               | seems like there are no articles about it in the 2024
               | calendar year.
               | 
               | I remember reading a really nice screed from walmart last
               | year pushing the fed to turn the screws on rent seekers,
               | but without RFP and ubiquitous participation that isnt
               | going to come about.
               | 
               | bit of a conspiracy here but IMO banks have been
               | observing the fraud rates with zelle, venmo, etc and only
               | tolerating it because an external party gets to be the
               | bogeyman.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | In cases of unauthorized Zelle payments, consumers have
               | legal rights and protections under the Electronic Funds
               | Transfer Act (also known as "Reg E"). This also applies
               | to FedNow instant payments, which has fraud management
               | services available and includes a closed loop reporting
               | requirement.
               | 
               | You should expect to see instant payment functionality
               | that runs on FedNow rails within banking apps in the next
               | 6-12 months. I cannot share more detail publicly
               | unfortunately, my apologies.
               | 
               | (contribute at a fintech, thoughts and opinions always my
               | own)
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | One of the bigger product goals for Zelle, I thought
               | (though perhaps not the most publicized), was "moving
               | liability away from banks more to consumers" (not
               | exclusively, but moreso), I thought? I believe there had
               | even been leaked internal presentations on that liability
               | reduction.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | Most financial technologies take years if not decades to
               | fully propagate through the system.
               | 
               | Contactless cards in the US for example, first rolled out
               | in 2007.
        
               | nicholasjarnold wrote:
               | Yep, FedNow is a good step in the right direction, but
               | the list of banks that participate needs to grow
               | substantially. Many small and mid-sized banks/FIs aren't
               | having a great 2023/2024, so I wouldn't expect to hear
               | much about them integrating with new payment rails until
               | their fundamental economics improve a bit allowing the
               | decision makers to loosen up the purse strings again.
               | 
               | source: have worked in the industry consulting and doing
               | technical design and implementation
        
           | rdl wrote:
           | That is one of the more clear (and opinionated, but IMO
           | correct) summaries of how we got here that I've seen -- thank
           | you!
           | 
           | Another aspect are all the cartel-like programs of banks
           | overall (and the banking regulators) to keep even well-
           | capitalized fintechs from offering these services directly.
           | For e.g. Mercury they could probably be entirely fine without
           | the high debit card fees.
        
           | Eridrus wrote:
           | This doesn't seem to describe either Wise (international
           | transfers, not an account) or Mercury (business banking where
           | you can get your money out in a bunch of ways that do not
           | involve debit cards).
        
             | trollbridge wrote:
             | Now that rates are higher, another fintech "opportunity" is
             | anything that lets you sit on a large amount of money for a
             | few days and collect 5% on it.
             | 
             | Of course, some fintechs actually are providing a
             | legitimate service. I'd like to see them partnering with a
             | legitimate bank directly instead of using an intermediary
             | like Synapse which just dumped all the money in one FBO
             | account.
        
           | lowkey_ wrote:
           | > one of the major problems here is that small banks are
           | often not staffed for adequate cybersecurity for global
           | operations like these; they do just fine doing hometown
           | community banking, but are very vulnerable to being cracked
           | like this. Yet another reason small banks that are providing
           | big-bank services should be regulated like big banks.
           | 
           | Exactly -- people are responding to me with comments about
           | how SVB failed, or how the Goldman partnership isn't going
           | well, but like... looking at Evolve's website I know for a
           | fact they aren't hiring solid SWEs for cybersecurity.
           | 
           | I understand nobody's perfect, but this is the "Nobody got
           | fired for buying IBM" ideology at work. If you chose Goldman
           | and they got hacked, sure, I'll say "well you couldn't have
           | known" -- but if you choose a random bank based in Memphis
           | I've never heard of, I'll naturally be more like "wtf."
        
             | aketchum wrote:
             | but Goldman wont take your call if you are sub $100MM in
             | revenue (probably need way more than that). So you set up
             | your partnership early in your company life then if the
             | relationship is working fine why would you pay hundreds of
             | thousands or millions of dollars and rebuild your
             | integrations just to have a larger bank partner that none
             | of your users will ever know you are using
        
             | trollbridge wrote:
             | Or in this case, a bank based in West Memphis, _Arkansas_
             | that you've never heard of.
        
           | aketchum wrote:
           | There are plenty of reasons to partner with a bank as a
           | fintech other than to drive debit card revenue.
           | 
           | 1. There are lots of regulations that say only banks can do
           | certain actions, like lend in all 50 states under the rules
           | of a single state. Or open a FDIC insured checking account.
           | Or have a unique account+routing number for each user to send
           | ACH funds to (various reasons this could be preferred to
           | everyone ACH to one single global account). These are
           | valuable services without any debit card issued by the
           | fintech.
           | 
           | 2. It is basically impossible to become a bank. The
           | government only approves a handful a year. Square (block)
           | actually got approval recently but it is very difficult to
           | do.
           | 
           | As a result of (1) + (2) is that if your company needs any
           | banking products at all you need to partner with a bank
           | because there is just no reasonable way to legally build that
           | functionality yourself.
        
             | iudqnolq wrote:
             | 3. Smaller banks might be worse at preventing you from
             | breaking the law.
             | 
             | (This data dump exposes lots of customers that should have
             | triggered KYC issues, like an American dog-walking startup
             | remotely operated from Pakistan )
        
             | trollbridge wrote:
             | (1) is absolutely true.
             | 
             | (2) - well, it isn't that hard to become a bank, but it is
             | hard to become a bank when your business plan is "we want
             | to operate well outside of established regulation and
             | norms". (Starting a state chartered bank is particularly
             | straightforward.)
             | 
             | There are many small banks that would like to be acquired
             | and they are generally profitable. A VC-funded fintech
             | would not have a terribly difficult time acquiring a bank,
             | particularly one that wants to offer BaaS, like Synapse
             | did.
        
               | aketchum wrote:
               | Sure - but that is buying a bank not forming a new bank.
               | I do agree that in practice this is how well funded
               | companies become banks.
        
               | 0x3444ac53 wrote:
               | Currently working at a state chartered credit union.
               | Although it is "easy" to start one, most states
               | regulations are very strict and lag significantly behind
               | federal ones. Hell, where I work we aren't even allowed
               | to serve businesses, loans, deposits, or otherwise.
        
             | tombert wrote:
             | My last job's [1] basic premise was trying to get around
             | this by using their VC money to simply buy a struggling-
             | but-still-FDIC-approved bank, and then try and make a
             | fintech on top of that. It seems like that skirted a lot of
             | the issues that most fintechs have to deal with.
             | 
             | [1] It is not hard to find my work history but I politely
             | ask you do not post it here.
        
         | leishman wrote:
         | > but I'm really confused as to why they always choose the most
         | random obscure bank. Why not partner with a major bank.
         | 
         | Because major banks won't support startups looking to compete
         | with them. Why would JPM, BoA, etc. service Mercury who is
         | going after their SMB business banking vertical? Banking is a
         | cartel in the US. The bank lobby makes it as hard as possible
         | to compete with them.
        
         | hipadev23 wrote:
         | > Why not partner with a major bank, or Column?
         | 
         | Yeah, why didn't Mercury partner with a well-established,
         | vetted, and recognized bank like SVB?
        
         | trevor-e wrote:
         | FYI Stripe (and many other fintechs) uses Evolve extensively
         | for many of its products too, e.g. Stripe Treasury.
         | 
         | https://stripe.com/newsroom/news/treasury
         | 
         | > With Stripe Treasury, platforms can offer their users
         | interest-earning accounts eligible for FDIC insurance in
         | minutes, enabled by Evolve Bank & Trust.
        
         | aketchum wrote:
         | Column does not offer many of the options that other bank
         | providers do, is fairly expensive, and may not have been in
         | existence when Mercury chose their vendor. Evolve is not a
         | "random obscure bank" - it is a bank that pivoted to have a
         | main business model of providing b2b platform banking instead
         | of consumer banking.
         | 
         | The major banks don't get into this game because the
         | regulations on banks get much stricter the larger you get. So
         | the fintechs are incentives to partner with "small" (this means
         | sub $50 Billion in AUM) banks to deal with the minimum amount
         | of necessary compliance (still a LOT of compliance working with
         | small banks)
        
       | 1800-not-wise wrote:
       | Anyone know where you can look up the breach data to see what
       | data they have on you? Even after contacting Wise it is
       | absolutely unclear what data they shared in detail, especially on
       | business accounts.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Evolve is the bank that actually holds the assets for Synapse,
       | the money-transfer company that shut down recently. That was on
       | HN a few days ago.[1] Are these incidents related?
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40877346
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | Doubtful, if only because data breaches never(?) kill
         | companies.
         | 
         | Thanks for pointing that article out. It made me reconsider
         | whether it's wise to keep money in Mercury.
         | 
         | EDIT: this rabbit hole goes deep.
         | https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/16/a-us-trustee-wants-trouble...
         | "San Francisco-based Synapse, which operated a platform
         | enabling banks and fintech companies to develop financial
         | services, was founded in 2014 by Bryan Keltner and Pathak. It
         | was providing those types of services as an intermediary
         | between banking partner Evolve Bank & Trust and business
         | banking startup Mercury, among others."
         | 
         | Mercury is by far the best bank I've ever used. But they're not
         | actually a bank, just a partner to one, and the foundations
         | seem shakier than they appeared.
         | 
         | I hadn't really stopped to consider "what if Mercury goes out
         | of business?" till now. Silicon Valley Bank seemed like a one-
         | off disaster, but now I'm not so sure.
         | 
         | Is there any bank that isn't awful? Even just reliable wire
         | transfers was beyond the capabilities of US Bank, for example,
         | and it was a business account.
        
           | blakeburnette wrote:
           | Mercury itself is not FDIC insured. If Mercury collapses,
           | your money is not insured. If Evolve collapses, your money is
           | insured. That's the official stance.
           | 
           | The majority of the banking industry is built on Cobol. Open
           | Banking is the only real path forward. The issue of the US vs
           | EU open-banking is the number of community banks.
           | 
           | The, unfortunate, most reliable banks from a technology/data
           | perspective are ones that are large enough to be loathsome to
           | deal with. Think JP Morgan, BoA.
           | 
           | Even banks of that size, Comerica, have had massive ledgering
           | issues recently, so they are not immune.
           | 
           | Some reputable players in the BaaS industry are Unit, JP
           | Morgan, Jack Henry, Moov(Massive plug for them), VGS (works
           | with Visa and MC btw). If your neo-bank works with them, I
           | would trust my money there. I do trust my money with one of
           | those partners.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | > _Mercury itself is not FDIC insured. If Mercury
             | collapses, your money is not insured._
             | 
             | How is it not false advertising on the part of Mercury to
             | describe their accounts as FDIC-insured if this is the
             | case?
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | The question is, if you have money stuck in Synapse, were
           | records at Evolve that would help retrieve it compromised?
           | 
           | "The collapse of middleman Synapse has revealed fintech's
           | promise of safety as a mirage. More than 100,000 Americans
           | with $265 million in deposits have been locked out of their
           | accounts."[1]
           | 
           | Evolve has problems: Fed report on Evolve: "Examinations
           | conducted in 2023 found that Evolve engaged in unsafe and
           | unsound banking practices by failing to have in place an
           | effective risk management framework for those partnerships.
           | In addition, Evolve did not maintain an effective risk
           | management program or controls sufficient to comply with
           | anti-money laundering laws and laws protecting consumers."[2]
           | 
           | The combination of a collapse on the fintech side, bad risk
           | management on the bank side, and a "hack" looks bad. It also
           | raises the possibility that the "hack" might be an inside job
           | to cover up theft. We've seen that happen in crypto land more
           | than once.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/02/synapse-fintech-fdic-
           | false-p...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/e
           | nfo...
        
         | blakeburnette wrote:
         | The data breach did not cause the collapse of Synapse. Synapse
         | has been a slow rolling collapse for the past 2ish years due to
         | horrible management. Ultimately Synapse imploded when Mercury
         | left Synapse as a BaaS provider to partner directly with Evolve
         | BT. The Synapse collapse definitely put Evolve into the
         | spotlight as someone with a ton of turmoil, lack of sufficient
         | oversight and insufficient technological governance.
         | 
         | Evolve is an otherwise obscure bank chartered in Arkansas but
         | headquartered in Tennessee (a little sketchy) that has over-
         | leveraged itself. This is why it was hit with a Cease and
         | Desist from the FDIC. The C&D also probably contributed to them
         | becoming a target for LockBit.
         | 
         | Evolve is also the underlying bank for Stripe Treasury,
         | although to my knowledge, their have been no new partnerships
         | with them. I have heard the number 2 thrown around. Of note,
         | Shopify is the main person for whom this was built and uses
         | this.
         | 
         | Consequently if you have submitted KYC/KYB information for
         | Shopify, Mercury, Yotta, Dave, any other past Synapse partners,
         | or some Modern Treasury partners your data was breached. This
         | seems to be the primary information shared along with account
         | and routing numbers. This becomes problematic especially as
         | part of the check involves external account and routing numbers
         | along with SSN of any UBOs.
         | 
         | Fintechs do not partner with small banks because of debit card
         | fees but because of Dodd Frank regulations (primarily).
        
           | sillysaurusx wrote:
           | Wow, Mercury's account and routing numbers were all leaked,
           | along with all KYC info? Is there a way to confirm that?
           | 
           | Their email made it sound much less serious.
           | 
           | (Apropos nothing, sorry about your motorcycle accident -- I
           | hope you've recovered well. Thank you for this comment; the
           | severity of this breach wasn't apparent till now.)
        
             | blakeburnette wrote:
             | Is now afraid to get on my motorcycle today. If you linked
             | an external account, then most likely. However, it is my
             | understanding that Mercury had a very relaxed KYC and I
             | would suppose their user are not impacted by external
             | accounts. The more likely victim of external accounts are
             | B2B participants of partners of Evolve. This would most
             | likely be true for Shopify. FWIW, routing numbers are
             | public. Other data included in the hack is Evolve's emails
             | in the form of outlook data files. Affirm is another
             | definite impacted individual. VA loan data is probably also
             | included in this hack.
        
       | n_ary wrote:
       | Not saying that this breach is somehow connected, but all of my
       | Wise cards(both physical and virtual) got charged($10, $100,
       | $500) at random locations of the globe in May & June and method
       | was manual entry. While some charges were declined initially
       | because the expiry date was entered wrong on first try(all of my
       | cards coincidentally have expiry date like 04/24 or similar) but
       | cvv was always correct. To make matters worse, all these charges
       | were manually entered somewhere and NO approval
       | notification(thing that I get when I make any online Txn,
       | regardless of amount) ever popped up. I only noticed the declined
       | txns in the evening when I went to check my phone after work.
       | 
       | Wise sent me an email this month that there was a breach at
       | Evolve but all ties were broken with them and no data was
       | affected. But these random rise of fraud txn were saying
       | otherwise. Also, thankfully, the txns were declined due to
       | insufficient fund(I only use wise during travelling and add fund
       | before departure) which gets me extra worried that those might
       | have gone through if I had funds even when all of those cards
       | were frozen[1].
       | 
       | [1] This is my typical habit after getting one of my real credit
       | card with very high limits getting charged thousands of Euros
       | while I was out sick in hospital for a month and then getting
       | greeted by all these charges while I was barely able to sit still
       | and still recovering. Thankfully, my creditcard provider accepted
       | my paperwork and removed(reversed?) those txn and immediately
       | sent me a replacement card in a week and disabled my hacked card.
       | Since then, I always keep my CC frozen and only use proxy(Wise)
       | when doing txn online with limited balance.
        
         | throwaway01wise wrote:
         | Same, just last week on my Wise account. "Manual entry". First
         | a 0USD "card check" was triggered, couple hours later
         | transactions started going through.
         | 
         | I noticed a couple days later by accident, randomly checking my
         | balance in the app. I got no notifications from Wise app at any
         | time.
         | 
         | Thing is, although I have a physical Wise card, it was never
         | used anywhere since the account was opened, so I suspected
         | something was way off. Can't be stolen credit card info from
         | some random store online, or ATM skimming etc.
         | 
         | While I don't know what all the possible ways to pull this off
         | are, had a feeling I'd be reading about it on HN soon. This
         | breach, or some other breach, looks to me like someone has
         | enough info to charge random Wise accounts.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | > _cvv was always correct_
         | 
         | How do you know this, does Wise provide auth response data?
         | (Merchants are not required to respect the CVV check, so it's
         | possible for txns to go through with a non-matching CVV
         | response code.)
         | 
         | I'm also curious about the lack of notifications. That would
         | seem to indicate a level of account control beyond the
         | cardholder data. Unless they were failed due to NSF before the
         | notification step.
        
           | parlortricks wrote:
           | what is the point of the CVV if it is not mandatory?
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | This thread seems as good a place as any to ask. I have a Mercury
       | account for a now defunct/non-existent company, but Mercury
       | refused to close my account. Unfortunately that means I was
       | exposed in this breach. What is the best way to get them to
       | actually close my account? I no longer even have access to the
       | account because it's tied to a domain and email that no longer
       | exist. The business entity was shut down correctly, so it legally
       | no longer exists. Should I just let this ride?
       | 
       | My original plan was just to ignore it, but thanks to this breach
       | I guess I can't continue to ignore it.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | If you can you re-register the domain and email address, that
         | would be a convenient shortcut.
         | 
         | But more generally, they will need business closure docs,
         | including asset disposal. The defunct account will become
         | property of the asset receiver(s).
         | 
         | If there's enough money in the account to bother, hire a lawyer
         | to remind them how things work.
         | 
         | If there isn't enough money in the account, then you were right
         | to ignore it in the first place. The damage from this leak was
         | not (especially) predictable, but regardless it's done now, and
         | won't get any worse.
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | There was like $17 in the account when I tried to close it,
           | so I am completely unconcerned with the money. My bigger
           | concern is that their lax security will result in someone
           | trying to fraudulently transact with the account and somehow
           | that will come back to bite me.
        
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