[HN Gopher] Philip Morris International has funded Japanese acad...
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       Philip Morris International has funded Japanese academics
        
       Author : XzetaU8
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2024-07-05 20:09 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bath.ac.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bath.ac.uk)
        
       | jijji wrote:
       | you have a tobacco company funding studies under the name
       | "Foundation for a Smoke-Free World" that show smoking is not
       | harmful... what else could go wrong?
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | > studies under the name "Foundation for a Smoke-Free World"
         | that show smoking is not harmful
         | 
         | Is that what the studies show? I was looking for that in TFA
         | but all I saw was secrecy and suspicion (not that suspicion
         | isn't warranted, given past behavior, but also the tobacco
         | companies were required to fund smoking-cessation research as
         | part of various settlements, were they not?)
        
           | nightpool wrote:
           | Reading the linked report: https://exposetobacco.org/wp-
           | content/uploads/STOP_Report_Add... it seems that the
           | foundation was used specifically to fund think-tank-like
           | outputs obliquely advocating for PMI's line of "heated
           | tobacco products"--an e-cigarette-like product that has been
           | shown by regulatory agencies to be identical to human health
           | as smoking a real cigarette (since it not only contains
           | addictive nicotine, like a normal nicotine ecig, but also the
           | entire tobacco leaf itself, leading to similar rates of
           | smoker cancer, secondhand smoke symptoms, etc, even though
           | the different combustion processes means they don't create as
           | much visible smoke or odor).
           | 
           | These HTPs have become very successful in Japan, and although
           | PMI publishes most of the research they use to argue for them
           | directly (for example, showing they have 3x less particulates
           | than cigarettes, ignoring that they have similar health
           | outcomes), the FSFW seems to play more of a "think tank"
           | advocacy role in commenting on government policies and
           | initiatives that would stand in the way of the rollout of
           | these HTPs (from the report):                   There is
           | overwhelming evidence that tobacco tax increases         are
           | effective in reducing tobacco use (232), including evidence
           | that it is the only intervention proven to reduce
           | inequalities in         smoking (233, 234). Despite this, on
           | World No Tobacco Day in         2019, Marewa Glover, head of
           | the [FSFW]'s "Centre of Research Excellence" in New Zealand,
           | spoke out against increases         in tobacco excise. In
           | line with the tobacco industry argument         that higher
           | tobacco taxation is regressive (235), she claimed
           | that such measures would disproportionately affect Maori
           | populations (236). In August 2019, Glover also argued against
           | the proposed ban on smoking in cars in New Zealand, saying
           | (to         much derision)(237) that "scientific studies have
           | not proven that         exposure to cigarette smoke in the
           | car causes disease" (238).
           | 
           | Luckily, seems like they've already been rejected by most
           | governmental orgs:                   In September 2017, the
           | month of the Foundation's inception, WHO released a statement
           | saying that "WHO will not         partner with the
           | Foundation. Governments should not partner with the
           | Foundation and the public health community         should
           | follow this lead" (267).         In 2019, hundreds of global
           | public health experts also called for governments and the
           | public health community to         reject collaboration with
           | the Foundation (268).
        
         | RandomWorker wrote:
         | They are now called global action to end smoking. Makes you
         | think about all the so called good organizations that just
         | don't seem to be able to solve the problem. Quite smart though;
         | fund an opposing team, market them , they become a lighting rod
         | for all activism, then make sure to knee cap their ability to
         | do anything through highly burrocratic and convoluted power
         | structures, ensure your team is the CEO. And, ensure that they
         | consider so many variables such that they can never make
         | decisions. Or endlessly have good people write reports that no
         | one reads. In fact, make sure that no one reads them and, have
         | authorization on the final draft to ensure only vague and
         | implausible solutions are proposed. So smart. laughable really.
        
         | input_sh wrote:
         | My country's _finally_ banning smoking inside restaurants and
         | bars, and wouldn 't you know it, it appears "heated tobacco
         | products" are immune to the ban because it's somehow a
         | smokeless product, despite definitely emitting smoke. And while
         | the ban will only come into effect mid-December, there's
         | already a concerning amount of "IQOS-only" places, and there's
         | still ashtrays in such places, they're just slightly more
         | discreet in their design.
         | 
         | And to top it all off the public consensus is that it stinks
         | worse than a cigarette. So if nothing changes by then, we're
         | gonna be in this paradoxical situation in which you can't smoke
         | a strawberry-flavoured vape containing no tobacco, but you can
         | smoke "smokeless" "tobacco product", which is totally not a
         | cigarette 2.0 with no proven health benefits in comparison to
         | cigarettes.
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | I don't know if you visited Philip Morris web page [1] lately,
       | but from the content side it talks about smoke-free future, are
       | they playing a two side play to confuse people about their real
       | intents?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.pmi.com/
        
         | bowsamic wrote:
         | It's just greenwashing but for tobacco
        
         | DiscourseFan wrote:
         | Corporations, as entities, don't often act to their own
         | detriment. The people in them, trapped, often, in moral
         | contradiction, will find ways of expressing their discomfort in
         | ways that are profitable for the corporation. Somebody working
         | their could genuinely believe they are doing their best to help
         | others, because considering the alternative might cost them
         | their job.
        
         | leononame wrote:
         | Sounds Line they're trying to get into vapes or some other
         | alternatives to smoking. If I had to take a wild guess, it's
         | not because they "should", as they put it, but because they've
         | seen the writing on the wall. Smoking is on the way out in the
         | long run and best be prepared when the time comes. By
         | positioning themselves like this, they gain _some_ credibility.
         | 
         | Don't know how reliable the research they fund is going to be,
         | but I'd be wary of any tobacco/smoking substitute regardless
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Once weed is federally legal I'd guess they'll be big into
           | that.
        
             | bastawhiz wrote:
             | Huge. They already are. It turns out that a lot of people
             | don't smoke simply because they don't like cigarettes.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | If nothing else, smoking is fraught with regulation, but it
           | is comparatively the Wild West for vaping. When is the last
           | time you saw Joe Camel or the Marlboro Man?
        
         | ncr100 wrote:
         | So "blue" - looks like sky. When the truth is a sickly sticky
         | brown, tar stained lung.
         | 
         | Neat / sad how colors in marketing can impact sentiment.
        
         | riffic wrote:
         | they're under a consent decree if I'm not mistaken from a lot
         | of lawsuits that took place in the 80s and 90s.
         | 
         | big tobacco also funds organizations like Truth, which put out
         | anti-smoking advertisements that really look and feel like a
         | reverse-psychological smoking advertisements in a way
         | (apologies for the dose of conspiratorial tin-foil in this
         | thread).
         | 
         | EDIT:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre...
        
       | teamspirit wrote:
       | Another stark reminder of the need for transparency and
       | independence in scientific research. I, however, don't have an
       | easy solution.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | It shouldn't be that much of a problem.
         | 
         | Of course, Philip Morris will fund research that support their
         | way, but if the science is good, it is worth taking. That
         | research should be scrutinized for its quality: trustworthy
         | data, good methodology, etc... more than who payed for it.
         | Being transparent about potential conflicts of interest is a
         | good thing, as it can help identifying biases, but I'd say it
         | comes after good methodology and reproducibility.
         | 
         | A study that says smoking is bad with errors all over the place
         | doesn't advance science. A well made and reproducible study
         | that says some particular aspect of smoking is not as bad as we
         | thought it was does advance science.
         | 
         | Other things being equal, independent research is better, but
         | it doesn't mean sponsored research should be thrown away.
        
       | leoh wrote:
       | Or -- folks wanting to do good in the world got a job at PMI and
       | directed funds to researchers doing useful things
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | Newsflash: purveyors of death sticks are unethical
        
       | adamnemecek wrote:
       | Philip Morris did something similar in 2001 in Czech Republic
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smok...
       | 
       | There was a widespread backlash, like the phrase Philip Morris
       | had as much negative connotation as being associated with Epstein
       | or something.
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | Interesting report:
         | https://edition.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/07/16/czech.morris/stu...
         | 
         | Summary: early deaths from smoking overall are a significant
         | financial postive for an economy. But Philip Morris were
         | excoriated in the press because the report was too inhuman. The
         | report looked at many factors and priced them:
         | Public finance gained between 19,523 mil. CZK and 23,793 mil.
         | CZK, with the realistic estimate of 20,270 mil. CZK, from
         | smoking-related taxes. Public finance saved between 943 mil.
         | CZK and 1,193 mil. CZK (realistic estimate: 1,193 mil. CZK)
         | from reduced health-care costs, savings on pensions and housing
         | costs for the elderly -- all related to the early mortality of
         | smokers.             Among the positive effects, excise tax,
         | VAT and health care cost savings due to early mortality are the
         | most important. Increased health-care costs, absenteeism-
         | related social costs, lost income tax related to early
         | mortality, and fire-induced costs total between 13,849 mil. CZK
         | and 16,605 mil. CZK, with the realistic estimate totalling
         | 15,647 mil. CZK.
        
       | seigel wrote:
       | Interesting... Ferrari and Mission Winnow as a side investigation
       | adventure.
        
       | buffington wrote:
       | This is tricky. It feels like it's an obvious conflict of
       | interest. But if the researchers are free to do real science, no
       | strings attached, this seems like a good thing.
       | 
       | Even with no strings attached, it's hard to trust PMI. Imagine
       | the researchers discovered, with data to prove it, that PMI's new
       | smokeless tech truly did make PMI's products safe. I doubt anyone
       | would trust it.
       | 
       | But if the research discovered that smokeless tech was worse,
       | with data to prove it, I suspect it'd be a lot easier to trust.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Or would it just be a ruse to keep selling smokes? I dunno...
        
           | buffington wrote:
           | Exactly. Even if PMI wants to truly support real research,
           | and is willing to accept the findings - their name attached
           | alone casts doubt on any of those findings.
        
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