[HN Gopher] Insights from over 10,000 comments on "Ask HN: Who I...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Insights from over 10,000 comments on "Ask HN: Who Is Hiring" using
       GPT-4o
        
       Author : comcuoglu
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2024-07-04 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tamerc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tamerc.com)
        
       | lukasgw97 wrote:
       | Crazy, didn't know that React is so important! Well done!
        
       | rickcarlino wrote:
       | Nice work, OP. Looking at the graph, I sure hope we did not hit
       | "Peak HN" in Q2 2023.
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | IMHO, I believe the peak was due to a combination of Zero
         | Interest Rate Policy (ZIRP) and the pandemic, both of which
         | have faded out this year. Elon Musk's highly publicized firing
         | of a big part of the Twitter work force also set a precedent
         | for lay-offs in the industry. But I am still optimistic that we
         | will many such peaks ahead of us.
        
           | raydev wrote:
           | > Elon Musk's highly publicized firing of a big part of the
           | Twitter work force also set a precedent for lay-offs in the
           | industry
           | 
           | Layoffs across the industry were already well underway when
           | Musk completed his first round. I think some tech company
           | execs were happy to use Musk as a high profile excuse, but
           | investors everywhere were demanding layoffs/corrections as
           | early as Summer 2022.
        
       | rareitem wrote:
       | I really like the graph at the 'what javascript frameworks are in
       | demand?' part. Any insight to share about that?
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | Yes, later this week I will follow up with something to tell a
         | little bit about the animation and the sphere positioning, that
         | graph was kind of the most fun in writing this blog post. Thank
         | you for your feedback!
        
         | mewpmewp2 wrote:
         | Honestly I would just prefer to see it ranked as a table or
         | similar to the databases on.
        
       | l5870uoo9y wrote:
       | Surprised to see Redux featured so prominent in JS frameworks
       | section, since it is so often criticized while many praise newer
       | competitors like Zustand.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | or Jotai!
        
         | pacomerh wrote:
         | From my experience some of these companies that are already
         | using new state libraries still have code in older libs like
         | Redux and it's important for them to hire candidates that
         | understand how they work since they changed the way you think
         | about state, and if you understand that it's very likely you'll
         | understand the other ones.
        
       | blowski wrote:
       | I wonder how this would compare against a random sample of jobs
       | on, say, Indeed or LinkedIn. My experience of Hacker News is that
       | it's a very biased group (in a good way) to the general industry.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | I've heard that many of the jobs posted on general jobs boards
         | like that are never intended to result in a hire. They are
         | posted when the company already knows who they are going to
         | hire, but are legally obligated to post the position, or when
         | the company wants to manufacture evidence that "no qualified
         | candidates" could be found locally.
        
           | 7thpower wrote:
           | I've never heard of this outside of government contracts that
           | require n+X. Is this a visa related workaround or what?
           | 
           | Or is it just chatter from the grapevine?
        
             | fishtacos wrote:
             | I can tell you that when I moved from a contract position
             | to full time at Dell Services (now NTT Data Services), they
             | had to review and possibly? interview 2 additional
             | candidates despite hiring from within.
             | 
             | We did have many work visa employees though.
             | 
             | We worked with Healthcare clients. Big ones.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Could be visa-related, it's very easy to craft a posting
             | that only your already-identified preferred candidate will
             | qualify for. I firsthand know of companies that did this
             | for H-1B employees.
             | 
             | Or any public sector job where positions have to be posted
             | but you already have your internal hire, son-in-law, or
             | cousin lined up.
             | 
             | But, it's mostly just rumor I've heard.
        
             | Onawa wrote:
             | H1B visa workaround. Companies have to show that there are
             | no qualified US candidates before they are able to use the
             | H1B visa process. But there have been many abusers of the
             | system. https://www.utahbusiness.com/systemic-abuse-of-
             | the-h-1b-lott...
        
           | roncesvalles wrote:
           | I would say that's more prevalent in HN. A lot of the "Who's
           | Hiring" posts are veiled show-and-tells. Some of those
           | companies clearly have no intention of hiring. Even got an
           | automatic rejection email from one of those (within a minute
           | of applying). To be fair, it does work - I've discovered some
           | interesting startups and market niches from the Who's Hiring
           | threads.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Interesting. I hadn't considered that angle, and my
             | expectation was that this would be less prevalent here.
        
             | codetrotter wrote:
             | As an opposite data point, when I was looking for a job I
             | interviewed with multiple companies that I found on HN who
             | is hiring. And one of them ended up hiring me. Two years
             | later I work for them still.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | There's usually tells that it's a compliance post.
           | 
           | Used to be very specific instructions about mailing a resume
           | to an address with a reference number. And advertised only in
           | the newspaper. But Immigration said they can't do that one
           | anymore; has to be the same submission methods (email,
           | webform, whatever) as an actually open position and
           | advertised/listed in the same places too.
           | 
           | But they'll still have the other tells, which is very
           | specific experience and education requirements which happen
           | to line up exactly with their preferred candidate. Sorry, we
           | did our best, but we can't find any local candidates with a 4
           | year BS degree, a minor in Clown Studies, and 3 years
           | experience with very specific software that isn't used many
           | places (experience most likely obtained at the hiring company
           | during internship or while on OPT; or while on H1-B if this
           | is in support of a green card, rather than in support of
           | H1-B).
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | I've had few interactions with HN crowd as I've posted my
         | availability for consulting/freelancing and I feel like I don't
         | like the bias.
         | 
         | People needing freelancers for few weeks/months to complete
         | projects where the requirements are glueing the usual APIs and
         | solving the usual Safari bugs asking me Leetcode questions are
         | out of their mind.
         | 
         | I am not applying for a full time position, I don't care at all
         | about your mission and I'm not a cofounder that is going to
         | make or break your startup, I don't give two damns if you think
         | you're gonna revolutionize _insert the usual sass but we do it
         | better_.
         | 
         | Discord is by far better for finding work in your domain and
         | related to technologies you like, and you can ask for much more
         | money because people already know you're experienced on the
         | topics you share on that discord.
        
       | SushiHippie wrote:
       | > Using Selenium, I used a script to google iteratively for
       | strings query = f"ask hn who is hiring {month} {year}" to get the
       | IDs of the items that represent the monthly threads.
       | 
       | FYI, you could've just used the hackernews API, and get all posts
       | by the user `whoishiring`, which submits all these who is hiring
       | posts. And then filter out only the posts where the title starts
       | with "Ask HN: Who is hiring?", as this bot also submits the 'Who
       | wants to be hired?' and 'Freelancer? Seeking Freelancer?' posts.
       | 
       | https://hacker-news.firebaseio.com/v0/user/whoishiring.json?...
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | This makes just so much sense and would spare me 65 lines of
         | code. Thank you!
        
           | SushiHippie wrote:
           | No worries! Btw in your database graph "Snowflake" seems to
           | be off by two positions, as it has a smaller count than
           | ElasticSearch and ClickHouse, but appears in front of them.
        
           | tagyro wrote:
           | Also NER would have done a better job imo
        
           | codetrotter wrote:
           | Also if you want to manually browse them, look at
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring
        
       | herodoturtle wrote:
       | What a great write up - thank you.
       | 
       | Someone in NYC give this person a job! ^_^
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | GPT-4o is not a person.
        
           | pixelatedindex wrote:
           | Did GPT-4o do the write up?
        
       | gajnadsgjoas wrote:
       | This should have "Show HN" tag Also you don't have to use
       | selenium or HN api - there are DBs with updated HN data
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | Could you maybe link me one of those? I've googled a bit but
         | didn't find ready-to-use DBs with that data.
        
           | pvg wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40644563
        
             | comcuoglu wrote:
             | Thank you, looks promising.
        
               | SushiHippie wrote:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40782787
               | 
               | Also the clickhouse dataset, which is free.
               | 
               | Google BigQuery can become very expensive.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | It's handy but I think for your use case, the regular API
               | works fine. For instance, you could have just pulled all
               | the whoishiring posts
               | 
               | https://hacker-
               | news.firebaseio.com/v0/user/whoishiring.json?...
               | 
               | without the googling hoops. Not that this is very helpful
               | after you're done!
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | Show HN is for things someone has made that other people can
         | try and this is a write up which is perfectly fine as it is -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | > To post, submit a story whose title begins with "Show HN".
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | I'm not sure what you mean by that. Most reading material
             | is just fine as a regular post and can't be a Show HN,
             | thats very near the top of the thing I linked:
             | 
             |  _On topic: things people can run on their computers or
             | hold in their hands. For hardware, you can post a video or
             | detailed article. For books, a sample chapter is ok.
             | 
             | Off topic: blog posts, sign-up pages, newsletters, lists,
             | and other reading material. Those can't be tried out, so
             | can't be Show HNs. Make a regular submission instead._
             | 
             | Things that can't be Show HN can be perfectly fine regular
             | HN posts, just like this thing already is.
        
               | gajnadsgjoas wrote:
               | Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to
               | submit your own stuff occasionally, but the primary use
               | of the site should be for curiosity.
               | 
               | I don't know, 0 posts and two comments, first post with
               | self promotion right away. I had a feeling it's not
               | allowed, oh well
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | I'm completely confused here, sorry. Are you talking
               | about this submission? People submitting their own work
               | with their first post is totally fine, especially if
               | they're around to talk about it. These are some of the
               | best threads HN has to offer, often. The guideline is
               | about not using HN to post your own stuff exclusively but
               | it's, you know, a guideline rather than a mathematical
               | constraint so the trivial case of posting your own stuff
               | on HN for the first time is not merely fine, it's a good
               | thing.
               | 
               | Edit: Maybe I'm figuring it out, is it that you thought
               | that self-posting is strongly discouraged and that 'Show
               | HN' is a label you're supposed to use to identify self-
               | posting? They're not directly related, Show HN is just a
               | special HN category with its own subsection and its own
               | extra rules. Nobody _has_ to use it but if you do use it,
               | the post has to be within those rules. The other,
               | somewhat orthogonal thing is that you can post your own
               | stuff (in or outside Show HN), just don 't overdo it.
        
       | BadCookie wrote:
       | Interesting data, but I think the percentage of remote listings
       | is misleading. Many "remote" jobs now require you to live within
       | commuting distance of a particular city, usually SF or NY.
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | I agree, I've realized too late that I should have introduced a
         | "Hybrid" category in this.
        
       | gwd wrote:
       | Nit: There appears to be both a "React Native" and a "React-
       | Native" bubble in the JS framework graph.
        
         | pacomerh wrote:
         | there's also a Node.js and NodeJs
        
           | comcuoglu wrote:
           | Both fixed now, thanks.
        
       | omoikane wrote:
       | > https://tamerc.com/posts/ask-hn-who-is-hiring/#what-javascri...
       | 
       | "Node.js" and "NodeJS" are drawn as separate spheres, is that
       | intentional? Similarly for "Vue.js" and "VueJS". (Maybe the same
       | for "Angular" vs "AngularJS" too, although the former might be
       | referring to Angular TypeScript).
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | Angular and AngularJS are distinct from each other; the other
         | pairs are not.
        
         | serial_dev wrote:
         | AngularJS support has officially ended as of January 2022.
         | Angular is the actively supported "version".
         | 
         | My vague memory of this is that AngularJS from v1 to v2 was
         | such a huge difference (and arguably some percentage of the
         | community qualify this update as a colossal f up), that they
         | decided to go with a different name, and they also came to
         | their senses and their backwards incompatible changes are no
         | longer so bad.
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | I'm convinced Angular's adoption of RxJS for HTTP requests
           | was a cunning move to cement job security.
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | Thanks, is fixed now.
        
       | jamestimmins wrote:
       | Any chance you could run a comparison of the number of Rust vs
       | Golang jobs over time?
       | 
       | I seem to have noticed that Rust has gotten more common than
       | golang in the job postings, but it's hard to verify without code
       | because there are so many false positives for "go" on any post.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | Using a 100 billion parameter LLM to `grep --count` surely is
         | something
        
           | snek_case wrote:
           | Can't wait to be able to run this locally using electron.
        
           | codetrotter wrote:
           | Read the second part of what they said
           | 
           | > it's hard to verify without code because there are so many
           | false positives for "go" on any post.
           | 
           | Hence grep being insufficient in this case.
        
             | gammarator wrote:
             | You can't really trust that the LLM gets it right either,
             | though.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | It didn't. As noted elsewhere, there the bubble cloud has
               | Vue.js and "Vue Js", among others.
        
           | t-writescode wrote:
           | Using a 100B parameter LLM to overcome the large amount of
           | experience required to learn how to do natural language
           | processing one's self rather than using a library to do it
           | sure is something.
           | 
           | I should write a bot to analyze users and hide those who are
           | actively and regularly negative online or on a particular
           | forum and hide their comments.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | > I should write a bot to analyze users and hide those who
             | are actively and regularly negative online or on a
             | particular forum and hide their comments.
             | 
             | Yes, please! I'd sponsor this work if you want donations.
             | 
             | A browser plugin would be even better.
             | 
             | I want to filter out (or at least highlight): ads,
             | sponsored content, clickbait, rage, negativity, trolling,
             | crypto (much of it anyway), assholes, rudeness, politically
             | partisan, spam emails, etc.
             | 
             | If this could work on every website, and eventually every
             | pane of glass (phone, etc.), it would be truly magical and
             | absolutely game changing for the trajectory of the
             | internet.
             | 
             | I want more signal and less negativity. And fewer people
             | trying to sell me on things (unless those things are
             | interesting ideas).
             | 
             | This is the correct way to fight the algorithm and the
             | walled off platforms.
        
           | comcuoglu wrote:
           | While this made me laugh and there is some truth to it, the
           | nice thing when running the process described in the blog
           | post is that you don't need to know what or how you want to
           | count - the LLM has the knowledge to classify it correctly
           | enough to get good estimations. Go and Rust are both good
           | examples of words that have multiple meanings and are
           | pre-/suffix to many other words.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | There's 3 matches for " go " on this page (before writing my
           | comment) but only 2 of them pertain to GoLang.
        
           | IanCal wrote:
           | It's not doing that though, and if you'd done classification
           | tasks you'd realise the huge benefit that comes from taking a
           | computationally expensive system and using it to solve _one
           | off problems_ that were very time consuming, and doing it
           | easily.
           | 
           | The article says it cost ~$50. That's _astonishing_. That 's
           | 25 minutes of my billable time.
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | In total numbers I got 539 jobs saying that they want Rust
         | experience and 695 want Go experience. I think I should have
         | added another line-chart showing the programming language
         | distribution over time, thanks for the idea.
        
           | jamestimmins wrote:
           | Thanks for looking this up. It's especially interesting bc if
           | I search "golang" on LinkedIn jobs, I see 5,185 results (in
           | the US), but I only get 148 results for "rust".
           | 
           | Hardly scientific, but shows the risk of using Hacker News to
           | draw overly strong conclusions of language popularity.
        
         | hipadev23 wrote:
         | -
        
           | localfirst wrote:
           | how do you create these perfect tables with just text?
        
         | genghisjahn wrote:
         | We need LLMs for this?
        
       | softwaredoug wrote:
       | Really cool.
       | 
       | I'd love to see a similar analysis to "Who Wants to be Hired".
       | What trends exist in folks struggling to find work? That can help
       | point people to how to target their career growth.
        
       | t-writescode wrote:
       | This is very neat! Thanks for using your time and literal dollars
       | to work through this!
       | 
       | As an added detail regarding the "remote" v "in-person", another
       | interesting statistic, to me, is to know how many of those in-
       | person job-seeking companies are repeats! It could absolutely
       | mean they're growing rapidly, OR it could mean they're having
       | trouble finding candidates. Equally, missing remotes could mean
       | either they're getting who they need OR they're going out of
       | business.
       | 
       | All interesting plots on the graph!
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | This kind of input is exactly what I've hoped for submitting it
         | here, thank you. I agree!
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | We're a growing B2B company in Norway. We struggled for years
         | to fill in-person positions. We've been at least 2-3 devs short
         | for the past 6+ years.
         | 
         | That is, until December last year. Then it was like a flood
         | gate had opened up. Suddenly we had tons of candidates to try
         | to select from.
         | 
         | I knew things were bad over in bay area and such, but I didn't
         | expect it to hit the market over the pond here so quickly and
         | abruptly.
        
       | jddj wrote:
       | Nice charts, which lib? I'm on mobile currently and can't easily
       | dig any deeper to answer my own question
        
         | comcuoglu wrote:
         | Chart.js (with the geo plugin for the choropleth chart) and
         | three.js for the bubble-chart.
        
       | bobbywilson0 wrote:
       | Cool analysis with GPT-4o! I was doing some messing around with
       | the same dataset recently around the "Who is Hiring" and "Who
       | wants to be hired". Although I was just using pandas and spacy.
       | (I was job supply and demand with the US FED interest rates here:
       | https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bobbywilson0/hn-whos-hirin...)
       | 
       | I can actually see how nice it would be for an llm to be able to
       | disambiguate 'go' and 'rust'. However, it does seem a bit
       | disappointing that it isn't consolidating node.js and nodejs or
       | react-native and react native.
       | 
       | I'm curious on the need to do use selenium script to google to
       | iterate, here's my script:
       | https://gist.github.com/bobbywilson0/49e4728e539c726e921c79f....
       | Just uses the api directly and a regex for matching the title.
       | 
       | Thanks for sharing!
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | Is 10,000 comments a large enough sample size to gain insights
       | from?
        
         | Mathnerd314 wrote:
         | If you read TFA then you will see the answer is yes. Not deep
         | insights though, it is basically just keywords and a few
         | numbers.
         | 
         | I think bytes is generally a better metric than number of
         | entries, naturally 10,000 books will have a lot more insight
         | than 10,000 one-liners.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-07-04 23:00 UTC)