[HN Gopher] Twilio confirms data breach after hackers leak 33M A...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Twilio confirms data breach after hackers leak 33M Authy user phone
       numbers
        
       Author : mindracer
       Score  : 377 points
       Date   : 2024-07-04 12:26 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.securityweek.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.securityweek.com)
        
       | infecto wrote:
       | Good motivation to stop using Authy.
        
         | fauigerzigerk wrote:
         | What is a good alternative?
        
           | infecto wrote:
           | Most likely whatever password app you use supports these now.
           | I know for myself, I started using Authy long long ago when
           | there were not really many options.
           | 
           | In my case, 1 Password can do this now. I believe the same is
           | true for Bitwarden and Apple passwords.
        
             | fauigerzigerk wrote:
             | I hesitate to use the same app for both authentication
             | factors.
             | 
             | The reason why I started using Authy a long time ago is
             | that it supports multiple devices and isn't linked to any
             | other account (such as Google or Microsoft).
        
             | lozf wrote:
             | Also KeePassXC -- if you don't like the idea of 2FA codes
             | being in the same db as passwords, it's straightforward to
             | use a separate db for 2FA only.
             | 
             | Manage your own sync between devices with syncthing,
             | dropbox or whatever you prefer.
        
             | sofixa wrote:
             | Personally I dislike the idea of putting the other
             | factor(TOTP) alongside the main two ones (email/password).
             | Kind of ruins most of the purpose of TOTP and MFA in
             | general.
        
           | imrehg wrote:
           | Besides all the other advice of using the password manager as
           | a 2FA store as well, on the stand-alone side there is Aegis.
           | I have good experience with it, and allows better
           | interoperability than Authy as well.
        
           | haswell wrote:
           | On iOS, I've been using "OTP Auth".
           | 
           | While it's nice that password managers can handle this as
           | others have mentioned, the whole point of a 2nd factor is to
           | ensure an attacker can't get in if they somehow get your
           | password. Storing the second factor along with the 1st factor
           | doesn't make much sense to me.
        
           | attendant3446 wrote:
           | Aegis (Android), supports automatic backups. There is also
           | Ente Auth (it's been mentioned on this site), but I haven't
           | used it much.
        
           | cess11 wrote:
           | I'll join the choir and recommend Aegis. It's slick, got
           | features, code on Github.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | My goodness, for the 100,000th time, just stop using phone
       | numbers for 2FA. (I know you won't anyway)
       | 
       | There are no more excuses other than asking for your phone to be
       | sim-swapped and your bank accounts or your wallets to be drained
       | by call centers.
       | 
       | If this breach doesn't scare you from using phone number for 2FA,
       | then maybe nothing ever will and AI and deep fakes will make this
       | even worse.
        
         | AceyMan wrote:
         | Authy doesn't implement SMS 2FA (how could it). A phone number
         | is part of your user profile for registered mobile devices
         | hosting the app.
        
           | Justin_K wrote:
           | Even worse... Sounds like phone number is irrelevant, yet
           | they collect it.
        
             | oldmariner wrote:
             | How else are they going to track people with a hard-to-
             | change identifier?
        
               | Terretta wrote:
               | > _How else are they going to track people with a hard-
               | to-change identifier?_
               | 
               | Using the device advertisee ID that the user is entitled
               | to change.
               | 
               | // Sorry, for a moment I thought you were serious.
        
               | prng2021 wrote:
               | I just did some quick research on these IDs. Correct me
               | if I'm wrong, but it seems like each user account would
               | be tied to one device. It also seems like the user, at
               | least on Apple devices, has to opt into advertising
               | tracking in order for your app to even get access to
               | this.
               | 
               | Ignoring the security pitfalls of phone numbers, it
               | really doesn't seem like these advertising IDs are a drop
               | in replacement for using phone numbers.
        
             | jokethrowaway wrote:
             | It's used to store and retrieve your 2fa secrets in case
             | you lose your device
        
               | Terretta wrote:
               | > > _Even worse... Sounds like phone number is
               | irrelevant, yet they collect it._
               | 
               | > _It 's used to store and retrieve your 2fa secrets in
               | case you lose your device_
               | 
               | The _phone number_ doesn 't store anything?
               | 
               | But if somehow knowing that phone number is a key to
               | getting your 2FA secrets, you'd have a bigger problem.
               | 
               | Except it often is, and that's the problem.
        
               | ezekg wrote:
               | Do what I do and turn off "allow multi-device." Problem
               | solved -- even if your phone number is stolen, they can't
               | recover your 2FA because it's locked to the device too.
        
               | FabHK wrote:
               | You can enable multi device, and have it on multiple
               | devices, then disable it.
               | 
               | https://authy.com/blog/understanding-authys-multi-device-
               | fea...
        
               | ezekg wrote:
               | Yep. I've done this. Lots of people I know use "burner"
               | phones without cellular for 2FA.
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | That is brilliant news for SIM swappers and criminals now
           | that they can gain access to your codes directly with your
           | phone number!
           | 
           | A terrific reason to avoid anything Twilio / Authy
        
             | Ayesh wrote:
             | In fairness, you cannot. It requires a backup password.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | > Authy doesn't implement SMS 2FA (how could it).
           | 
           | https://www.authy.com/integrations/ssh/
           | 
           | "Someone in your organization doesn't have a smartphone? We
           | got you covered. Authy SSH can send them the token via SMS or
           | a phone call."
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | If you use Authy, turn off "allow multi-device" and SIM-
         | swapping isn't an issue. This should be on regardless of the
         | leak.
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | But one of the selling points for me was to allow multiple
           | devices so that if one broke I'd still have access.
        
             | greenchair wrote:
             | people with this use case would need to be comfortable
             | taking on the extra risk.
        
             | FabHK wrote:
             | You can enable multi device, and have it on multiple
             | devices, then disable it (and keep it on multiple devices -
             | it's just that then adding yet another device needs
             | toggling multi-device on from an existing device, a
             | confirmation SMS is not enough).
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | Perfect. I can just toggle it on when I add another
               | device. Thank you, great solution.
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | > for the 100,000th time, just stop using phone numbers for
         | 2FA.
         | 
         | I agree, and I say this to whoever asks me too, and I avoid any
         | services that still use phone numbers as a way to associate it
         | to you (Signal, I'm looking at ya!)
         | 
         | However, easier said than done, some services still require you
         | to use a phone number, like banks, some government agencies,
         | insurance companies, etc., the services that actually matter if
         | your data get leaked. I believe there should be a regulation to
         | prevent using the phone in any way to confirm your ID, and
         | never force you to provide one to access such services.
        
         | k8sToGo wrote:
         | It doesn't scare me because in Authy you also set a password
         | which without you cannot access the codes.
         | 
         | The phone number here just acts as a username.
        
       | simcollect wrote:
       | How come companies don't care about encrypting their users' data
       | in their databases?
       | 
       | It's been possible for a very long time now.
       | 
       | Yet, companies keep leaking. And people keep sleeping.
        
         | sethammons wrote:
         | Why would that have helped? The endpoint was exposing the data,
         | not the database. The endpoint would have simply decrypted.
         | 
         | encryption of data at rest is for hard drives that walk off,
         | not for access.
        
       | Dma54rhs wrote:
       | How to confirm if my number was one of the leaked ones?
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | I suppose https://haveibeenpwned.com/ will add the information
         | when it can be verified.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Authy makes it hard to migrate away. Anyone know how to get the
       | seed of the 2FA codes? Is there really no export option?
        
         | conception wrote:
         | Maybe?
         | https://gist.github.com/gboudreau/94bb0c11a6209c82418d01a59d...
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | Authy desktop is no longer available and you need a specific
           | version.
        
             | tamimio wrote:
             | I had that exact needed version when I migrated, if you
             | need it, I can look it up, but there's a slim chance that I
             | deleted it.
        
         | deegles wrote:
         | You'll have to reset them one by one.
        
           | drooopy wrote:
           | I finished that process recently for 50+ accounts. It's
           | something that I would definitely wish on my worst enemy.
        
             | tamimio wrote:
             | Ha! when I finished mine, I actually bought myself some
             | treats and snacks for celebration.
        
         | hipadev23 wrote:
         | I slowly migrated away from Authy when they decided to shut
         | down their desktop authenticator. You can painfully export
         | codes, though I generated new 2FA codes at every vendor.
        
         | slightwinder wrote:
         | Some months ago, I used https://github.com/alexzorin/authy to
         | export them. It basically creates a dummy-device to access the
         | tokens, and then exports them to some format. But I have not
         | figured out how to import them now into another app.
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | Use the plaintext export option on that project. Most TOTP
           | apps should accept the URIs that are exported. Maybe not en-
           | masse but individually for sure.
        
             | slightwinder wrote:
             | Ah, thank you, that worked in Aegis. I just missed the
             | option for plaintext because of the long list of supported
             | apps. So all it needs is a textfile with one
             | otpauth://-entry per line and it imports them all at once.
        
         | prevent6672 wrote:
         | I thought I had a lot of totp codes to migrate but then it
         | turned out I didn't use many of them. After deducting them,
         | there remained 10 apps that I needed to migrate. It took me an
         | hour to port them to bitwarden manually.
        
         | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
         | Just write down any key before you store it in the Authy.
        
       | snowwrestler wrote:
       | I use Authy's iOS app to generate 2FA tokens for a few accounts.
       | I cannot remember ever entering my phone number into it, or
       | establishing an Authy account of any kind. Is there some other
       | way they would have acquired my phone number?
       | 
       | I'm trying see if the issue is some unanticipated issue with the
       | iOS client app itself, or if it is only affecting people who
       | created online accounts with Authy to sync their 2FA credentials
       | across devices.
        
         | inhumantsar wrote:
         | Authy is both a SaaS and a consumer-facing authenticator app.
         | 
         | When companies integrate Authy into their system, they can use
         | it for SMS OTP (also deliverable by phone call + TTS iirc) as
         | well as regular TOTP, Authy's proprietary TOTP, and others.
         | 
         | Your phone number would only be at risk if you used a service
         | which used Authy for SMS 2FA
        
           | ffsm8 wrote:
           | The consumer app also wants your phone number... It prompts
           | you to "backup" your codes, so that they're not gone if you
           | reinstall the app or switch devices
           | 
           | you probably gave them your phone number at some point if
           | youve got authy on multiple devices.
           | 
           | /Edit: just checked on a clean install. It prompts for a
           | phone number instantly and won't let you scan codes without
           | creating an account. Not sure when that happened, as I
           | haven't really used it in years.
        
             | inhumantsar wrote:
             | Figures. I stand corrected then.
             | 
             | We used Authy for 2FA at my last company and migrated off
             | it to use a complete auth platform. The amount of user
             | (consumer and business) hostile shit we found in the
             | process was astounding.
             | 
             | Twilio was nice to work with way back when it was the only
             | decent API-driven POTS connection service out there.
             | They've steadily gotten worse over the years and
             | acquisitions though. Wouldn't recommend them to my worst
             | enemy these days.
        
               | razakel wrote:
               | You know, one thing I learned from my patients... they
               | all hate the phone company. It's interesting; even the
               | stock holders of the phone company hate the phone
               | company!
        
               | inhumantsar wrote:
               | As a former telco employee and current telco shareholder,
               | can confirm.
        
               | stogot wrote:
               | What do you recommend now
        
               | inhumantsar wrote:
               | For authentication services to integrate into
               | apps/services, Zitadel.
               | 
               | For consumer password/2FA management, Bitwarden and
               | Yubikey.
        
           | jordigh wrote:
           | What's Authy's proprietary TOTP protocol? Is it just in fact
           | HOTP, like Duo?
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20936222
        
         | slightwinder wrote:
         | Have you looked into the settings? On android you can see a
         | cellphone-number and e-mail there. If they are missing, I guess
         | it's not known to them.
        
           | snowwrestler wrote:
           | Nothing in the iOS Settings app for Authy, but tapping the
           | little gear icon in the app UI shows my phone number and
           | email! I guess I did enter them at some point and forgot.
           | Thanks.
        
         | k8sToGo wrote:
         | If you use cloud sync I think it requires your phone number
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Cloudflare should probably deprecate their Authy provider,
         | considering they support other more secure MFA options
         | (hardware and virtual WebAuthN). I believe Wise (ex
         | TransferWise) and Plastiq also use Authy natively for SMS OTP
         | server side, but provide no mechanism to disable SMS 2FA (boo).
         | 
         | https://authy.com/guides/cloudflare/
        
           | jgrahamc wrote:
           | There's no "Use Authy" option any more in Cloudflare. It just
           | says:                   Mobile App Authentication
           | Secure your account with TOTP two-factor authentication.
           | 
           | And clicking the button gives you a generic QR code to use
           | with app of your choice.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Thank you for correcting me, Cloudflare was presented as an
             | Authy token that would be destroyed when I deleted my Authy
             | account and some of the docs I found led me to believe this
             | was still actively in use. I retract the Cloudflare part of
             | my above comment.
        
               | jgrahamc wrote:
               | No need to apologize. We did use Authy for a long time
               | but allowed more general TOTP solutions from 2017 and
               | have really pushed hard for people to use hardware keys.
        
         | ayewo wrote:
         | > I cannot remember ever entering my phone number into it, or
         | establishing an Authy account of any kind. Is there some other
         | way they would have acquired my phone number?
         | 
         | Entering your phone number was mandatory. This was what turned
         | me away [1] from Authy to Duo Mobile on my Apple devices.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33244324
        
       | MenhirMike wrote:
       | Does anyone have a recommendation for an Open Source 2FA OTP app?
       | That's the only thing I use Authy for, to scan the QR Codes into
       | the App and generate the 2FA tokens, but in a way that allows me
       | to migrate to another phone without having to re-set all the 2FA
       | tokens on the vendor side.
        
         | WanderPanda wrote:
         | I'm using Raivo. It hasn't let me down, yet
        
           | pxeger1 wrote:
           | Raivo was bought by a shady developer last year and is no
           | longer open source. If that wasn't enough, a few weeks ago
           | they released an update which deleted all your codes -
           | failing at literally the one job a 2FA app has!
        
           | mm263 wrote:
           | The same Raivo that was sold to some shady dev who proceeded
           | to delete all of the OTPs that I had in the app?
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1d3zqvv/raivo_auth.
           | ..
        
         | TheBozzCL wrote:
         | I use a YubiKey with their Authenticator app.
        
         | notatworkbro wrote:
         | I've implanted my 2FA token in my arm and just hope it never
         | breaks :D
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | Which one did you get? Did you get the Apex Flex from
           | Dangerous Things? How do you like it/how was the process?
           | 
           | https://dangerousthings.com/product/apex-flex/
        
         | MaxMatti wrote:
         | I used Aegis for a while and really liked it, switched to
         | Bitwarden now but the UX was better
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | I use both and make offline backups regularly.
        
         | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
         | I'm of the opinion that it's basically fine yo store them in
         | your password manager. Yes if your password manager is broken
         | into you lose everything (same as having no 2fa in that case),
         | but you still prevent people from guessing your password and
         | often avoid having to deal with email- or text-based 2fa. And
         | if your password manager is broken into, there's a good chance
         | your device has been broken into, in which case it doesn't
         | matter where you store your 2fa.
        
           | brightball wrote:
           | I mix it up and store some 2FA on different apps.
           | 
           | When it's not a system I'm deeply concerned about I will just
           | use the 2FA on the password manager.
        
         | nwhale wrote:
         | If you do not need QR codes, _oathtool_ is great. You can
         | protect your tokens, recovery codes etc. with _gpg -c_ or
         | similar, so the encryption is entirely separate from the
         | authentication mechanism.
         | 
         | And you actually know what is going on. Works for GitHub.
         | 
         | https://www.nongnu.org/oath-toolkit/
        
         | SushiHippie wrote:
         | For Android I'd recommend Aegis
         | 
         | https://f-droid.org/packages/com.beemdevelopment.aegis/
         | 
         | Or if you have a YubiKey you could also use it for TOTPs
         | 
         | Windows, Linux, Android: https://github.com/Yubico/yubioath-
         | flutter
         | 
         | iOs: https://github.com/Yubico/yubioath-ios
         | 
         | I personally use Bitwarden for TOTPs (with a self hosted
         | vaultwarden instance), it's by far not the most secure way to
         | store your passwords and TOTPs next to each other, but it saves
         | so much time.
        
           | alias_neo wrote:
           | This.
           | 
           | I migrated to Aegis a while back because I wasn't happy with
           | how hard it is to get secrets out of Authy, or that someone
           | else is managing them, and they they need my phone number
           | (guess I was right, again).
           | 
           | I use Folder Sync on my Android to sync the Aegis auto-
           | backups to a MinIO bucket I host at home.
        
         | mrb wrote:
         | I use andOTP https://github.com/andOTP/andOTP and my favorite
         | feature is the database of 2FA can be backed up PGP-encrypted
         | and reimported on another device. But sadly it is no longer
         | maintained. The latest version on Google Play Store is from
         | 2021 and can still be installed and works fine on Android 14.
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | Ente Auth or bitwarden builtin one or keepassXC builtin one.
         | 
         | Migrating from Authy is a headache, though you don't have to
         | reset the tokens. I found a way to do it (1), but I had to do
         | it manually because Authy only exported the email/user and the
         | token. Now, if you are like how I used to be, having the same
         | email for different accounts, the exported JSON will be
         | confusing and there's no way to tell which account is for which
         | service. Only in the Authy UI can you tell. I had to follow the
         | order of the JSON and the app, one by one, for my 700+
         | accounts, and verify that it works by going to the service site
         | and testing the generated code from the new app, and also
         | changing the email to a unique one. It took a whole week!
         | 
         | Edit: to add, I wouldn't recommend using Yubico or hardware-
         | based ones unless you will have two or more replicas, losing
         | them is easy compared to having your tokens backed up in an
         | encrypted KeepassXC db for example.
         | 
         | (1)
         | https://gist.github.com/gboudreau/94bb0c11a6209c82418d01a59d...
        
         | prophesi wrote:
         | For Android, if you happen to use Keepass as your password
         | manager, I really like KeePassDX[0]. If the camera app you use
         | doesn't support QR scanning, though, you'd need an app for that
         | (and I don't think any FOSS camera apps implement this, as for
         | as I can tell).
         | 
         | This one[1] seems the most up-to-date, by a German research
         | group. You'd share the link as text to the KeePassDX app,
         | search for the entry it's for, and it populates it with the
         | HTOP/TOTP secret.
         | 
         | There are iOS Keepass clients that support this as well, though
         | from what I can tell there's some drama with source code[2][3]
         | in the landscape.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.kunzisoft.keepass.libre/
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.secuso.privacyFriendlyCo...
         | 
         | [2] https://github.com/MiniKeePass/MiniKeePass/issues/606
         | 
         | [3] https://keepassium.com/articles/keepass-apps-for-
         | ios/welcome...
         | 
         | And other allegations under the ethics & transparency sections
         | of KeePassium's list of iOS alternatives
         | https://keepassium.com/articles/keepass-apps-for-ios/
        
         | etoulas wrote:
         | https://2fas.com/
        
       | localfirst wrote:
       | There really has to be steep repercussions for companies that
       | fail to protect user data like this. At this point I can't help
       | but feel that there is wilful neglect with the aim of
       | exfiltrating data with unknowable aim.
       | 
       | Our digital data must be recognized as human rights but lately
       | the world has been vocal about it but silent when it comes to
       | action and enforcement.
       | 
       | More and more reason why people no longer trust cloud hosted
       | solutions. Offline-first, local-first with optional data sync is
       | the _only_ path forward to combat violation of our rights to our
       | own digital data.
       | 
       | Case in point, feeding haveibeenpwned with a bunch of HN user
       | handles reveal a good chunk of you aren't even aware your data
       | has been leaked, especially ironic since I see comments from
       | those handles are very anti-regulation when it comes to user data
       | ownership.
        
         | cj wrote:
         | I agree the US in particular should have better data protection
         | laws and consequences.
         | 
         | But phone numbers aren't something I'd consider confidential in
         | most cases. Hell, we used to publish our phone numbers in
         | physical books and give them to the whole town for free
         | (literally).
         | 
         | The data was even monetized with ads plastering every page. I
         | guess the digital age isn't all that different from the analog
         | age (in certain ways!)
        
           | localfirst wrote:
           | that was before internet now phone number leaks can be way
           | more troublesome due to the way all of our data is connected
           | to it via 2FA
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | We didn't use phone numbers to prove our identity back then.
           | It was only used to call you. You often wanted it to be
           | public so you could be reached. Now it's a critical piece of
           | information required to access services online and prove who
           | you say you are.
        
       | duckmysick wrote:
       | > Twilio has detected that threat actors were able to identify
       | data associated with Authy accounts, including phone numbers, due
       | to an unauthenticated endpoint. We have taken action to secure
       | this endpoint and no longer allow unauthenticated requests
       | 
       | How do I avoid such problems in my own app? Force authentication
       | for all requests with row-level security? Rate limiting?
       | 
       | Any testing frameworks that would catch this? Something like
       | "given endpoint /user/phone-number-validate make sure only <user>
       | can access it".
        
         | jmvoodoo wrote:
         | One step we have taken is to build an auth system that requires
         | you as the developer to explicitly specify the security of an
         | endpoint using a decorator. If no decorator is provided, then
         | the endpoint is completely locked down even to admins
         | (effectively disabled).
         | 
         | If an endpoint is decorated with something that is considered
         | dangerous (i.e. public access), that triggers additional review
         | steps. In addition, the authentication forbids certain
         | combinations of decorators and access patterns.
         | 
         | It's not perfect, but it has saved us a few times from securing
         | endpoints incorrectly in code.
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | .NET web apps / APIs have an option where you can require
           | authorization on all controllers (and their actions) by
           | default. If you need an anonymous controller/action, you can
           | use the `[AllowAnonymous]` attribute on it.
        
             | api_or_ipa wrote:
             | You can easily do the same with most (all?) routers using
             | middleware. Whether you get it slotted in your roadmap is a
             | different story.
        
         | brunoarueira wrote:
         | It's a common problem. On a previous job, I'd found one
         | unauthenticated endpoint just because I want to add some
         | integration tests on it and my tests failed! After that, I'd
         | created a script which lists all endpoints and curl each one
         | with invalid credentials and expecting them to return 401.
        
         | kardianos wrote:
         | This is really, really, simple.
         | 
         | 1. build a single endpoint handler that handles auth, then
         | looks up the endpoint on the path. 2. Never create direct
         | endpoints, just register endpoints in the system that the auth
         | endpoint works under.
         | 
         | You know table driven tests?
         | 
         | Use table driven endpoints. It works and makes things so much
         | simpler and secure.
        
           | znpy wrote:
           | > 1. build a single endpoint handler that handles auth, then
           | looks up the endpoint on the path. 2. Never create direct
           | endpoints, just register endpoints in the system that the
           | auth endpoint works under.
           | 
           | So like, an authn/authz middleware ?
        
         | cmgbhm wrote:
         | This is actually a use-case I use for interviews.
         | 
         | 1. Everyone tests authenticated user can do the right thing.
         | 
         | 2. Can <wrong|expired> authenticated user access the data?
         | 
         | 3. Can an unauthenticated user access data?
         | 
         | If there's a testing framework that does this scaffolding
         | automatically, I'd love to hear it.
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | Holy shit why is this even a question?? You. Write. Tests.
         | 
         | You build into your testing framework/library a mechanism that
         | will craft sessions across your range of authentication-levels
         | - unauthenticated (no-session), authenticated but unauthorized,
         | etc. You mandate new endpoints must have permissions test in
         | code review.
         | 
         | Simple, straight forward, and absolutely the bare minimum of
         | competency for any endpoint returning personal data.
        
         | tetha wrote:
         | Mh, I'm probably comparing apples to oranges and such.
         | 
         | But the last 2-3 times I setup a config management, I made sure
         | to configure the local firewalls as deny-all by default, except
         | for some necessities, like SSH access. And then you provide
         | some convenient way to poke the necessary holes into the
         | firewall to make stuff work. Then you add reviews and/or
         | linting to make sure no one just goes "everything is public to
         | everyone".
         | 
         | This way things are secure by default. No access - no security
         | issues. And you have to make a decision to allow access to
         | something. Given decent developers, this results in a pretty
         | good minimum-privilege setup. And if you fuck up... in this day
         | and age, it's better to hotfix too little access over losing
         | all of your data imo.
        
       | otachack wrote:
       | As alternatives: I use Authenticator Pro on my phone and keep
       | encrypted backups whenever I modify it. I know others have
       | pointed out Aegis.
       | 
       | The issue is starting the migration out of Authy. Assuming Authy
       | has no easy export, I suggest you migrate over a few entries at a
       | time (maybe from top down) while keeping account of transfers
       | somehow. You can have authenticators live side by side in the
       | meantime!
        
         | cmgbhm wrote:
         | You can rename them as they are migrated
        
       | jmbwell wrote:
       | iOS/iCloud has a built-in TOTP function also. Maybe better for
       | friends and family than some people here.
       | 
       | https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/automatically-fill-in...
        
         | delduca wrote:
         | I have been using Apple's Passwords, it is great.
        
         | blueelephanttea wrote:
         | It's good. And the introduction of the Passwords app this fall
         | will make it better.
         | 
         | But it seems to me that Apple only supports adding TOTP codes
         | if you have a password for the account. Which is annoying if
         | you want to split your passwords and second factor into two
         | different places. (For example if you wanted Bitwarden for
         | passwords and TOTP/Passkeys in Apple.)
         | 
         | You can of course put a dummy password in Apple. But that is
         | kind of annoying.
        
       | hypeatei wrote:
       | I just migrated off of Authy last week but I was probably caught
       | in this breach, ugh. Never liked it but they make it extremely
       | difficult to export your data.
       | 
       | I used this project for exporting:
       | https://github.com/alexzorin/authy
       | 
       | EDIT: it appears this project was actually using the
       | unauthenticated endpoint (used in breach, too) to facilitate
       | exporting, lol. Good luck to anyone trying to get off of Authy,
       | Twilio really doesn't want you to export your data for "security"
       | reasons.
        
         | Zetaphor wrote:
         | I also just recently left for Aegis and have been very happy. I
         | feel much better knowing that my 2FA is completely offline
        
           | teamspirit wrote:
           | Right, I did the same a while back. Aegis for Android and
           | 2FAS for iOS. Never looked back.
           | 
           | Also, if anyone is going either direction, Android <-> iOS,
           | both of these open source options allow easy export.
        
             | lifeinthevoid wrote:
             | 2FAS also exists for Android, is Aegis superior or you
             | don't use 2FAS on Android for another reason?
        
               | teamspirit wrote:
               | Didn't realize it exists for Android. I use ios now but
               | Aegis was great on Android.
        
         | NelsonMinar wrote:
         | The lack of export in Authy is a really ugly choice they made.
         | When I migrated to Aegis I used some hack that involved a
         | desktop Electron app's javascript console. I wonder if that
         | still works?
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | They don't offer Authy Desktop anymore officially and you
           | need a specific version. Not sure if the hack still works if
           | you have it installed.
        
         | Yhippa wrote:
         | What did you end up moving to?
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | Storing 2FA in Bitwarden (my password manager) and Aegis as a
           | fallback. Also making offline backups of each periodically.
        
             | mort96 wrote:
             | Doesn't Bitwarden require you to be on the paid
             | subscription plan to use 2FA? That's what I concluded
             | anyway from trying to research this garbage when Microsoft
             | was threatening to lock me out of my Github account. It's
             | why I ended up on Authy.
        
         | pnw wrote:
         | Has anyone found a single open-source app that supports both
         | mobile and desktop though? That was the attraction of Authy
         | before they killed their desktop apps.
        
           | hypeatei wrote:
           | Most password managers support it and offer mobile + desktop
           | clients.
        
           | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
           | The desktop version somewhat contradicts the purpose of 2FA.
        
             | hypeatei wrote:
             | Not really, 2FA is literally just that: a second factor.
             | 
             | It makes it unlikely someone has access to both your
             | password and the TOTP URI. So, if you leak your password on
             | a public forum (for example), the person who gets that is
             | not likely to also have your TOTP info.
        
             | mort96 wrote:
             | Good thing that 2fa is entirely unnecessary.
        
       | smaddox wrote:
       | No wonder I've seen such a major spike in spam calls / texts.
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | > due to an unauthenticated endpoint.
       | 
       | This is truly unacceptable for an authentication product.
       | 
       | An authentication product that doesn't implement authentication
       | correctly in their own APIs?
        
         | flutas wrote:
         | IMO: I'm pretty sure this is less of an auth issue, than it is
         | a rate limiting issue.
         | 
         | I haven't been able to find anything about the endpoint, but
         | based on the data exposed[0] I think the endpoint they are
         | talking about is the register one which requires a phone
         | number.
         | 
         | I'd bet they didn't rate limit it, and someone just blasted
         | through all phone numbers with it and stored the data for ones
         | that didn't error out.
         | 
         | [0]
         | 
         | The CSV data columns:
         | 
         | account_id
         | 
         | phone_number
         | 
         | device_lock
         | 
         | account_status
         | 
         | device_count
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Jesus fucking Christ. Can these companies learn how to write
       | software? Quality is dropping like dogs. Twilio used to be a good
       | company and now they are utter shite. Such a shame. Leetcode and
       | bad hiring practices have done this to our industry.
        
         | sethammons wrote:
         | Neither bad hiring not leet code is a problem with Twilio
         | properties in my experience. Quality however, that gets
         | railroaded by "deliverables" -- the problem is craftsmanship is
         | hard to maintain and manage as companies scale while priority
         | shifts to product announcements.
        
           | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
           | There needs to be penalties. Massive penalties for breaches
           | like this. That is the real problem. Nothing will happen to
           | Twilio even though they caused such loss. They need to suffer
           | economically for this, then quality will improve.
        
         | Zambyte wrote:
         | It seems much easier to pin the ever-decreasing quality of
         | software on the practice of trying to keep everything secret
         | (propriety). Like, obviously it's not secure if they don't let
         | people audit it...
        
       | okokwhatever wrote:
       | I still remember how hard was the process to be hired in this
       | company. Maybe just a mask to hide the sad truth.
        
       | delduca wrote:
       | I never trusted them, I hated the fact of having to use SMS.
        
       | ndneighbor wrote:
       | I guess this explains the recent uptick in spam...
        
       | pembrook wrote:
       | While this sucks, my phone is in so many data breaches at this
       | point it doesn't matter.
       | 
       | The spam-to-ham ratio on my phone number is now far worse than
       | any other channel for me. The traditional phone network is at
       | risk of going the way of the fax machine if we don't do something
       | about the spam problem like we did with email.
       | 
       | If I'm on a call, even with family, it's now almost exclusively
       | on FaceTime/zoom/meet/etc. I can't remember the last time I
       | talked on the traditional phone network or received a legitimate
       | call. Which isn't great because those aforementioned platforms
       | are all proprietary walled gardens with terrible incentives --
       | once they capture the market fully they will eventually dump ads
       | all over your calls. Don't believe me? Just look at what Gmail
       | did to monetize the lock-in on your inbox.
        
         | cjbgkagh wrote:
         | I think that is intentional, AFAIK phone communication is more
         | protected than other types so allowing spam to continue
         | unabated is in the governments interest. Outsourcing the
         | harassment to 3rd parties, similar to how prison torture is
         | outsourced to the inmates. The government could fix these
         | things but would rather not.
        
           | darby_nine wrote:
           | I think we just don't have very much competition in
           | telecommunications so things never get fixed. Why bother?
           | It's easier to extract rent off largely the same offerings as
           | the rest of your market (difficult to understand pricing
           | tiers that function as a congestion tax more than a
           | transaction, often region-specific monopolies or duopolies,
           | indistinguishable quality of service) and bring home large
           | profits, market efficiency damned.
           | 
           | Yes, I'm exaggerating. No, it's not by much.
        
             | cjbgkagh wrote:
             | Almost no-one is pro-spam, it's pretty much universally
             | hated, and in many cases it's already illegal so it's more
             | of a matter of enforcement. It is also trivial to detect.
             | 
             | Sure there probably is some regulatory capture but if
             | anything at all can be regulated it's spam calls /
             | messages. If the government can't regulate spam then what
             | could it be expected to regulate.
             | 
             | The general population is increasing worried about scam
             | calls for their elderly relatives, it's already a big deal.
        
               | ToucanLoucan wrote:
               | > Almost no-one is pro-spam
               | 
               | In fact there are really only two groups that are pro-
               | spam: spammers, obviously, and the entities that provide
               | them services from which they may spam.
               | 
               | Oh sure basically any provider of any service be it
               | phone, web hosting, email, etc. will _say_ they don 't
               | want spammers, and the email providers _may actually mean
               | it_ what with them not wanting their server 's scores
               | trashed and be unable to get email to anyone (though
               | plenty others don't give a shit), but website hosts,
               | telephone companies, and SMS providers? They utterly do
               | not care and in fact go out of their way to not know when
               | spammers are (mis)using their services.
               | 
               | Meanwhile like that other commenter said, everyone is
               | incentivized to enter walled garden services that
               | actually do the barest minimum of enforcement for spam
               | activity. I doubt they're conspiring in a dark room
               | somewhere, but neither side is going to upset at the
               | other in that situation.
        
               | cjbgkagh wrote:
               | Hence my other example of the inability to police prisons
               | enough to prevent abuse, I didn't allege an explicit
               | scheming but a happy little accident. Allowing a problem
               | to fester when it benefits you is totally normal and
               | expected behavior. But if there is a role for government
               | at all it would be regulate such dysfunctions.
        
             | treflop wrote:
             | Email is easier to mitigate spam with. The whole body of
             | the message is given upfront.
        
               | varjag wrote:
               | It's easy now. It was an unsolved problem two decades
               | ago.
               | 
               | And it's not like there's no technical means for the
               | phones either. Just enforcing caller ID would go a long
               | way to curtail spam. Like in our great Red Tape Europe,
               | even with uptick in recent years we have a tiny fraction
               | of spam calls compared to the United States.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | I make and receive regular phone calls all the time. However I
         | only answer those that are from numbers I have in my address
         | book. I do the same with text messages, I have my default view
         | set to "Known Senders" so I'm not even really aware of others.
         | If I'm expecting an unknown sender message, such as a TFA code,
         | it's easy enough to just look in "Unknown Senders" for it.
        
         | Ghexor wrote:
         | How convenient for the data collecting companies that so
         | generously sponsor the new & free services, that our
         | democratically controlled communication infrastructure looses
         | in value.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | Advertising is a cancer on modern society. It will
           | metastasize to any new communications medium, public or
           | private, and destroy it from within. People will switch to
           | new medium that offer less spam, but advertisers quickly
           | follow to strip-mine the new channel. A cycle of life, so to
           | speak.
        
             | lovethevoid wrote:
             | It's also so annoying circular. We spend money to get more
             | clients but this stops being effective at a certain point
             | so now you're just spending money to advertise for the sake
             | of it or the status, and could even be losing money by
             | doing so.
        
             | pembrook wrote:
             | I don't have a problem with advertising generally, as long
             | as I know upfront that's what funds a tool I'm using, and
             | isn't disguised like a non-ad (eg. Unlike what Google does,
             | which is outright deception). Advertising and spam are two
             | separate things in my book.
             | 
             | However, my real problem is with what I call "The Google
             | Strategy." Basically, they take publicly funded
             | infrastructure like HTTP and SMTP, capture the network by
             | dumping "free" products on the market (with basically no
             | advertising), kill off competitors, then monetize their
             | market capture by removing the "free" part, packing these
             | products with ads, making them worse and worse over time in
             | the process. And everyone is trapped, since they captured
             | the network of this public infrastructure. This is the
             | story of Google Search, Gmail, YouTube, etc.
             | 
             | It's anti-competitive, anti-markets, and quite frankly
             | should have been regulated away as a strategy a long time
             | ago.
             | 
             | Google basically ran Microsoft's classic anti-competitive
             | B2B strategy to capture the consumer internet, and got away
             | with it!
        
               | mort96 wrote:
               | > I don't have a problem with advertising generally
               | 
               | You should, honestly.
        
           | AnthonyMouse wrote:
           | "Our democratically controlled communication infrastructure"
           | honestly deserves to be deprecated and replaced with some
           | kind of federated voice system that comes out of the IETF
           | instead of the telcos. What kind of antediluvian nonsense
           | doesn't use end-to-end encryption in 2024?
        
         | bonestamp2 wrote:
         | > I can't remember the last time I talked on the traditional
         | phone network or received a legitimate call
         | 
         | Doctors and dentists.
         | 
         | Most of the calls I get are spam, but then the MOST important
         | calls I get are from doctors, labs, and dentists. I do as much
         | as possible online of course, but not all of these
         | professionals have good online systems and phone calls are
         | often required.
         | 
         | Sometimes you know what number they're going to be calling from
         | ahead of time, but often you don't... especially if you're in a
         | large medical network that has different offices for different
         | specialists, etc. It's a really sad situation if you get sick
         | and you're trying not to miss these important calls, especially
         | when it's a long wait for a specialist and then you miss their
         | call when they get to your name on the waiting list.
         | 
         | This will literally cost some people their lives and
         | legislators need to act on making spoof calls impossible --
         | there's no reason why anyone should be allowed to spoof a
         | number that they can't receive calls at.
        
           | tmpz22 wrote:
           | > I can't remember the last time I talked on the traditional
           | phone network or received a legitimate call
           | 
           | Social services are another example. Many services are
           | county-administered and thus don't have a centralized online
           | platform. As always our most vulnerable populations suffer
           | the most from techno-greed. Not the families of software
           | engineers who built the system.
        
           | thephyber wrote:
           | I recently had to help my father organize his medical visits.
           | 
           | Dealing with his healthcare providers was a bit of a pain,
           | but it was _way_ worse because he has stopped answering
           | calls, primarily because of the call spam rate. I think
           | because he owns his own business, he never fails to hand out
           | his contact info when he is shopping, and he owns his own
           | business (so his contact info is published by the city).
           | 
           | His phone provider has a feature to opt into spam filtering,
           | his phone has another, and I downloaded a spam list filtering
           | app for him. I disabled the ringer for numbers not in his
           | contact list. I did similar actions to reduce spam in his
           | text messages.
           | 
           | This was a good triage, but the damage is already done to his
           | psyche. He doesn't answer the phone anymore.
        
             | codersfocus wrote:
             | Why not get a second sim? Most phones can have 2 sims
             | active, and a phone / text only plan is dirt cheap
             | (3-6$/m).
             | 
             | Offer the second number with much greater discretion.
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | From experience it seems to be semi-random.
               | 
               | I've never had a single spam call on my main phone
               | number, but friends who have got a new number get maybe
               | 20 spam calls per day, with only having given their
               | number to their closest friends and family.
               | 
               | I think one factor that weighs in heavily is if your
               | contacts download thousands of spam apps onto their
               | phones and click YES to every permission. Then your phone
               | number is harvested from your contact's phone and sold.
               | TikTok, for instance, will beg me multiple times on a
               | frequent basis to see my contacts. I don't think you can
               | even install WhatsApp without giving it your entire phone
               | book, can you?
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | I don't know about most phones supporting that, probably
               | depends on the market.
               | 
               | But best I can tell, 80% of my spam calls are just war
               | dialing; a new number would get war dialed just as much.
               | Probably wouldn't get collections calls for my deadbeat
               | cousin though.
        
             | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
             | I haven't answered my phone for anyone not in my VIP list
             | in a year or two.
             | 
             | I can see when someone is calling and in realtime see them
             | leaving a voicemail via speech-to-text and pick up the call
             | if I want but 99.999% of the time it's spam.
        
             | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
             | Which app did you use ( I seem to have similar issue with
             | my other parent )?
        
           | unshavedyak wrote:
           | Getting a new, out of state number can sometimes help.
           | 
           | My phone is out of state due to my previous address, and 95%
           | of spam i get is spoofed to that old town or the surrounding
           | area.
           | 
           | No doctors office/etc calls me from that area. It works
           | pretty nice
        
             | alister wrote:
             | > _Getting a new, out of state number_
             | 
             | The problem with that idea is that when you make _local_
             | calls, people think that _you_ are the spammer.
             | 
             | I too have an out-of-state number after having moved, and I
             | can definitely confirm that when I make a local call, some
             | people will not pick up after seeing the unusual area code
             | on their caller ID. They told me so.
             | 
             | There's another problem too: Even when I leave voicemail
             | for a local business (plumber, dentist, replying to a "for
             | sale" ad), some people will be thinking, Why does this guy
             | need a plumber or want to buy my kayak if they live 1500
             | miles away?
             | 
             | I've resorted to leaving an explanation saying "Even though
             | my area code is XYZ, I'm in the same city as you".
        
         | DougN7 wrote:
         | I've been impressed with my iPhone and/or carrier (AT&T in the
         | US) for tagging incoming calls as spam or telemarketing. The
         | phone does still ring but I know not to answer it.
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | My phone number is from a different area code than I currently
         | live in and I know no one from that area anymore. I can filter
         | out 80% of spam just by ignoring calls from that area.
         | 
         | I wind-up using the phone because so many organizations
         | malevolently misfeature they websites - doing what you want to
         | (pay basic bill or whatever) is hard but upselling and new
         | features, those you can do instantly.
        
         | yread wrote:
         | Is this like an American thing? I'm in the Netherlands and i
         | get like 1 spam call per two months (business
         | internet/electricity salesperson usually)
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | America doesn't have privacy laws that prevent robot spam.
           | Repercussions for violating the SPAM Act are not prosecuted
           | very often.
           | 
           | Personally, the only "spam" I get is flagged by the cellular
           | provider and 99% of the time the calls are silenced. Not
           | really an issue for me. The only people that "call" me are in
           | my contacts list anyways. Everyone else can leave a VM or
           | text message.
        
           | grardb wrote:
           | Definitely. I'm American and I've lived in the Netherlands
           | for the past three years. The difference is night and day.
           | 
           | Whenever I visit, I switch to my US SIM card and am
           | immediately bombarded with spam texts (mostly from political
           | parties) and scam calls. In my experience, Android is pretty
           | good at marking calls and texts as "potential scams," but
           | they're still there. In the Netherlands, I've gotten a few
           | scam attempts via WhatsApp. Other than that, I think I've
           | received one phone call soliciting donations to the Red
           | Cross, and nothing else.
        
         | xyst wrote:
         | > Gmail did to monetize the lock-in on your inbox
         | 
         | This is why I have my own mail server and domain. Full control
         | over mail, and access to features that you pay for (ie,
         | unlimited e-mail aliases, control over mailbox size). No more
         | worrying about "google decided to shut your free account down
         | for whatever reason. Bye bye decades of emails and loss to
         | services that use email based OTP or magic link login.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > If I'm on a call, even with family, it's now almost
         | exclusively on FaceTime/zoom/meet/etc.
         | 
         | I really don't get that. I don't get these, on neither of my
         | phones (I've got two numbers). When it rings, it's virtually
         | always friends or family. Sometimes the bank/insurance/doctor.
         | Very exceptionally do I get a commercial or scam call.
         | 
         | I think it's not an argument good enough to excuse to excuse
         | Authy here: _" my phone already leaked, so what's one more
         | leak!?"_.
         | 
         | > Which isn't great because those aforementioned platforms are
         | all proprietary walled gardens with terrible incentives
         | 
         | Oh I fully agree. I'm using Telegram for chat but zero
         | FaceTime/meet/WhatsApp here. People want to call me, they
         | usually phone me. Once in a rare while Telegram.
        
           | iamtheworstdev wrote:
           | i'm jealous of you. I recently had a day where I got 25 phone
           | calls. 23 were spam. Turning on iOS "ignore unrecognize phone
           | numbers" has been amazing (i assume android has the same
           | feature)
        
             | graemep wrote:
             | Wow. I was wondering why people were fussing about the odd
             | spam call! The most I have had is 2 in a day and my number
             | is in websites, social media, whatever.
             | 
             | Almost all spam is instantly recognisable. Mostly visa and
             | parcel delivery scams.
             | 
             | In do not block unknown numbers because lots of
             | organisations use them here (UK) This includes people I
             | really do want to be able to contact me if they want to
             | such as the police.
        
         | Angostura wrote:
         | Interesting. Here in the UK I get about 1 spam phone call a
         | year.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | > I can't remember the last time I talked on the traditional
         | phone network or received a legitimate call
         | 
         | Doctors, dentists, moving companies, home improvement
         | contractors, recruiters, etc. These are some of the most
         | important phone calls I've received in recent memory.
         | 
         | I don't know what world you live in, but I religiously block
         | phone numbers after just one spam call. And I usually don't
         | give out my phone number. (I'm much happier giving out email
         | addresses since I have an infinite supply of addresses.) I
         | never get enough spam calls that I feel like the phone system
         | is going the way of the fax machine.
        
       | jonathanlydall wrote:
       | When I tried SendGrid it was super annoying that I had to install
       | yet another Authenticator app on my phone. Now it's become a
       | point of data loss.
       | 
       | It's bizarre to me that Twilio decided to get into the
       | Authenticator business at all, especially while SendGrid had
       | plenty enough problems to keep them busy.
        
       | deegles wrote:
       | I have removed all SMS based 2FA from every account that allows
       | it and you should too.
        
         | yieldcrv wrote:
         | and we should do product liability lawsuits on every service
         | that only allows SMS based one time passwords, if they don't
         | allow a client side only option
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | Why? 2fa doesn't meaningfully add security if you're using
           | decent passwords, and SMS-based 2fa is no less secure than no
           | 2fa
        
         | selbyk wrote:
         | I'm a bit confused how this is relevant. Authy is a OTP app,
         | nothing to do with SMS.
        
           | yieldcrv wrote:
           | Authy uses SMS based recovery of your entire account, a
           | weaker link that a single service using SMS based OTP
        
             | ingatorp wrote:
             | You can always disable multi-device, so it can act like a
             | regular OTP auth app.
        
       | yakito wrote:
       | We should have something similar to Apple's hide my email for
       | phone numbers
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | "Company who thought they'd lost all public trust loses last
       | additional bit of trust they didn't even know they still had,
       | more at 11."
        
       | darkr wrote:
       | This doesn't surprise me. I found an information exposure vuln on
       | the user registration endpoint a while ago (given a phone number
       | of an authy user who had previously registered via another
       | customer, retrieve all other numbers/devices/timestamps, email
       | addresses and other info for that user).
       | 
       | It took them two years to fix it.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | > Twilio has detected that threat actors were able to identify
         | data associated with Authy accounts, including phone numbers,
         | due to an unauthenticated endpoint
         | 
         | Isn't it what you are describing?
        
           | darkr wrote:
           | Based on the reports that I've read so far, this vuln was
           | different to the one I found, which was on an authenticated
           | endpoint.
           | 
           | Definitely some similarities though, I'd love to see some
           | concrete technical information on it.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | That app is so dumb. Completely negated the usefulness of TOTP.
       | Needs just to die already. Some executive over at Twilio signed
       | the check for Authy acquisition and is still trying to justify
       | the expense.
        
       | awahab92 wrote:
       | what do people use instead of twilio today? they make 2dcp
       | verifications take too long
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | What's a better 2FA product that is E2E encrypted and lets me
       | export the seeds?
        
       | godzillabrennus wrote:
       | Authy is basically unsupported. Not surprised. I switched my
       | accounts to 1Password when they announced the end of life of the
       | macOS app.
        
         | bonestamp2 wrote:
         | That makes sense. In case it helps others... when they
         | announced end of life of the mac app, that was because Apple
         | Silicon macs can run the iOS version of Authy. So, if you have
         | an M series mac then you can still use and get updates to
         | authy.
        
         | encom wrote:
         | Authy is terrible. I recently tried to delete my account,
         | because I've (finally) moved everything to Keepass, and they
         | make it as difficult as possible. Then they make you wait 30
         | days before they actually delete it, making sure to email you
         | constantly in the mean time, to ask you to please reconsider.
         | My 30 days expired a few days ago, so if they had actually
         | deleted my account when I told them to, my info maybe wouldn't
         | have been leaked.
         | 
         | Dog shit company. Avoid.
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | I chose Authy back in the day because that's what everyone was
         | suggesting. I hate it. I hate the whole cyber"security"
         | community.
        
       | bonestamp2 wrote:
       | I recently setup a focus profile on my iPhone that only lets
       | calls ring through from knowns contacts. There is going to be an
       | adjustment period as I discover people and companies (such as
       | doctors/hospitals) that I want to allow calls from and add them
       | to the whitelist. But otherwise, it has been really nice to cut
       | down on all of the interruptions.
        
       | gz5 wrote:
       | consider* putting endpoints on a private overlay network in which
       | network access is cryptography-gated (e.g. x.509 cert based).
       | 
       | then, a misconfigured endpoint (or a zero day etc.) can't be
       | exploited by any_actor_on_the_internet - actors need to first
       | complete the provisioning process you choose to enforce to be
       | authorized to use the private overlay.
       | 
       | *not one size fits all, e.g. bad option if endpoints need to
       | accept requests from unknowns.
       | 
       | however, many endpoints only need to accept requests from known
       | (identified, authenticated, authorized) endpoints, and the added
       | friction to id/authN/authZ get use the private overlay is not a
       | business impediment.
       | 
       | there is a stigma here due to the horrors of NAC on private
       | enterprise WANs. but NAC goals can be accomplished without that
       | baggage via internet overlays and modern cryptography.
       | 
       | to be clear, i am by no means advocating to abandon traditional
       | methods of endpoint auth - this it is just another layer which
       | recognizes that single layers are rarely airtight (e.g. what just
       | happened to Authy and Twilio).
        
         | hypeatei wrote:
         | > many endpoints only need to accept requests from known
         | (identified, authenticated, authorized) endpoints
         | 
         | Do you mean clients for the last part? I'm not a networking
         | expert but I don't see how layering on certs here is going to
         | help?
        
       | mihaaly wrote:
       | And they wonder in random organizations and businesses that I am
       | not willing to give all my personal details right away on first
       | contact despite their 'utmost importance' of handling my data
       | very securely, all this just to be informed about their product.
       | And they seems to be offended with a "but we did it so for many
       | years now" on my refusal and saying goodbye if they try to insist
       | this "company policy".
       | 
       | Unluckily sooo many give zero or negative fack among their
       | potential and existing customers. This includes businesses
       | providing medical services sending all the clien't data and
       | medical results in clear text email and even declaring for their
       | own convenience that "The property and copyright or other
       | intellectual property rights in the contents of any document or
       | images provided to you shall remain our property", for your
       | ultrasound results. Your medical results are their property for
       | those use their services. So they do as they plase with their
       | data, not your data, not your concern if it is protected or not.
       | And people go there and rate this service 4.8 on google, insane.
       | Of course no-one really reads TOC, not even for sensitive medical
       | services. People do not learn.
        
       | ehPReth wrote:
       | is this just like
       | 
       | anotherservicetwilioruined.example.com/api/doesthispersonhaveanac
       | count?phone=+12012000000
       | 
       | and then the service says 'yeah that number has an account' (and
       | nothing else?)? then whomever repeats that for every possible
       | phone number?
       | 
       | or... more than that?
        
       | vishnumohandas wrote:
       | We built ente.io/auth
       | 
       | If you need a cross platform authenticator, do check it out.
       | 
       | FOSS, optional e2ee backups.
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | No. Fuck you 2fa people. This whole space is despicable. Let me
         | keep using passwords. Don't force me to use your garbage
         | services.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | Twilio requires Authy for 2fa for sendgrid and maybe even twilio
       | itself instead of supporting more standardized 2fa that'd allow
       | 1pass to be used. This is all the more frustrating because I was
       | forced to use Authy to protect an account instead of my regular
       | tooling and they still managed to screw it up. Twilio, take a
       | hint and stop forcing people to use your custom thing
       | https://www.twilio.com/docs/sendgrid/ui/account-and-settings/two-
       | factor-authentication
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | Ugh. I hate that some apps require use of specific auth apps.
         | This should not be a thing, we have great generic systems for
         | this already.
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | I just hate that some apps/services require 2FA. My 32 random
           | characters which are unique to each service are secure
           | enough. Adding another service on top just increases risk (as
           | shown here; Authy was never going to do anything to protect
           | me, but it has now leaked info about me.)
        
         | calderwoodra wrote:
         | Even worse.. 2FA is mandatory on Twilio products, so either
         | install authy or don't use Twilio - no exceptions.
        
       | Featherknight wrote:
       | Sucks that Twitch.tv still relies on it. My only service that
       | uses it still, I've since migrated to other managers
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Terrible. Glad I moved away from Authy a long time ago. Small
       | reminder that I need to delete the account though.
        
       | jordigh wrote:
       | Took a while, but this commenter is finally correct:
       | 
       | > Why does Authy require I provide my cell phone number and email
       | address? Why do I have to have a user account? This is completely
       | ridiculous. I do not need nor want cloud syncing or backup. You
       | are making Authy a potential target for attacks by associating a
       | user to cloud stored 2FA information.
       | 
       | > This is not in the spirit of 2FA.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9100560
        
       | instagib wrote:
       | For iPhone, put the phone in do not disturb. It will send all
       | calls to voicemail. If someone is on your emergency contacts,
       | favorites, or 1by1 focus then a repeated call will actually ring
       | your phone. Otherwise no notification. Not even a text counter
       | increase unless the person taps (notify anyway).
       | 
       | Tried to do the same on an android phone and it didn't work.
       | 
       | You can also port your phone to google voice or Fi and give away
       | all your call information to them. Very few spam calls get
       | through their filter.
       | 
       | I like the change phone area code to out of area and block all
       | phone calls from that area that some call services provide.
        
         | rcostin2k2 wrote:
         | Actually, I have a Samsung S20+ and "Do not disturb" works
         | pretty well, even scheduled
        
       | denkmoon wrote:
       | If you've got anything in Authy that isn't using the authy custom
       | authentication scheme (ie. just regular TOTP) now is the time to
       | get it out.
       | 
       | Exporting the raw totp tokens can only be done from the desktop
       | version that is currently deprecated and scheduled to be nuked
       | from existence later this year. It requires getting the tokens
       | loaded into the desktop app, then downgrading to an older version
       | so you can use the chrome remote debugger to run a javascript
       | function against the desktop app (embedded chromium) which pulls
       | out the raw tokens and gives them to you.
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | > Exporting the raw totp tokens can only be done from the
         | desktop version that is currently deprecated and scheduled to
         | be nuked from existence later this year
         | 
         | Oh. Fucking great. So I'm locked in to using Authy forever now
         | I guess.
         | 
         | I hate 2FA. It literally does exactly nothing for security,
         | it's just another tool for these big companies like Google and
         | Twilio to put themselves between me and the services I need
         | access to, all while locking me in to their services and
         | siphoning out information they can sell to advertisers. I hate
         | it. I hate the "security" people who are pushing this garbage.
         | I hate everyone involved in this space. I hate that I now can't
         | log in to anything without going to fetch my phone. I hate
         | these people.
        
       | 486sx33 wrote:
       | Damn 2FA with telephone numbers, I hate it!
        
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