[HN Gopher] Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms
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Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms
I had an issue a few years ago - every ergonomic keyboard I tried
had the switches too close to each other and my fingers were
cramped in that small space. Then I decided to create a keyboard
which is suitable for larger hands and eliminates most of the wrist
movement. 34 keys was the most optimized version for achieving as
little wrist movement as possible. You can try the fitment for your
palm IRL with the printable template on the website.
Author : jogme
Score : 64 points
Date : 2024-07-04 07:11 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jogmekeebs.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jogmekeebs.com)
| weinzierl wrote:
| I find it interesting that there was a time when everyone seemed
| to get overboard with thumb keys and that now things seem to
| settle at two per hand.
| jbarberu wrote:
| I started my ergo-keyboard journey with a corne. I ended up
| having issues with the thumb cluster positioning and built my
| own prototype on new years eve this/last year. That board
| features four thumb keys, six columns, with four rows for index
| and middle finger and five for ring finger and pinky
| (essentially a 6x5 board with four of the bottom keys moved
| into a thumb cluster. A lot of keys ended up unused on that
| design (the lowest pinkey and ring finger keys were completely
| useless).
|
| A couple of months back I built another prototype, this time
| with a 6x4 + 4 layout. I'm still not loving the layout, four
| keys is too much for the thumb cluster and I'm looking at
| dropping down to three. Ironically I've already setup my layout
| so it almost only uses 6x3 + 3 (I use the top row for non-
| typing keys like F1-F12), and in effect reinvented the Corne
| that I started out with...
| zamalek wrote:
| The consumer ones are still pretty gung-to with thumb keys.
| jogme wrote:
| Given the thumbs limited movement, I came to a conclusion that
| 2 keys are comfortably reachable, but to reach the third thumb
| key, the thumb needs to get into a weird and uncomfortable
| position. That was my problem with the corne I had and I just
| stopped using the innermost thumb key because of that. Do you
| have a similar experience?
| flurdy wrote:
| That is why I have those for keys I rarely use, such as 'esc'
| and 'del'. Relatively rare - as they are obviously used
| frequently enough but not really when typing.
|
| And then I hit them with my middle finger instead, or rather
| smash them as it requires the whole hand to move slightly.
|
| So in my case does not affect speed or comfort (not a
| frequent VIM user etc)
|
| But if I only had two thumb buttons I would be ok.
| jhardy54 wrote:
| Thumb tuck is awful, and is one of my biggest complaints with
| Corne-style keyboards. I'm building a Dasbob in the hopes
| that the thumb arc is more comfortable, but we'll see.
| setopt wrote:
| MacBook keyboards have a similar modifier layout to a Space
| Cadet in some ways: On your left hand, there's {Cmd, Opt, Ctrl,
| Fn} in a row. Emacs on MacOS can use all four modifiers, e.g.
| mapping them to the historical {Ctrl, Meta, Super, Hyper} keys
| that were in the same place on a Space Cadet.
| setopt wrote:
| Note that this is slightly different from PC keyboards. On
| Mac, Fn as a modifier is handled by the OS and can be
| remapped (in System Settings or by individual apps like
| Emacs). On most PC keyboards, Fn causes different signals to
| be sent to the OS, making it very hard to use it for other
| purposes than intended.
| noelwelsh wrote:
| Interesting to me you say this, as my main criticism of most
| ergo / split keyboards is they don't have enough keys on the
| thumb. I started with a Maltron [1] with 8 keys on the thumb
| and that seems a good arrangement to me.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.maltron.com/store/p11/Maltron_L89_dual_hand_full...
| user_7832 wrote:
| I agree, I think the kyria, lily58 (and its derivative
| lotus58) are decent options, though the BFO9000 could also
| work as the ultimate split keyboard haha
| CarVac wrote:
| My Mitosis layout has 8-button thumb clusters but only three on
| each hand are used frequently as thumb keys. On the other hand,
| they're set up in my layout so two on each side can be held
| simultaneously for shift+num layer.
|
| The rest I just use for miscellaneous other uses, like
| pgup/pgdn and inverted-T arrow keys. It's not for use with the
| thumb, but it's just a handy place to put keys you'd have to
| move your hand for anyway.
| nickzelei wrote:
| I have the moon lander and have settled to almost never using
| anything on the thumb cluster. It just didn't feel very natural
| to me to have to reach for the thumb. I have larger hands too.
| I think what I do have mapped is only the first two keys too.
| bb88 wrote:
| I would rather have the extra keys on the thumb as an
| alternative to today where the pinkies are overloaded. The
| thumb only has to hit the space bar.
| Ballas wrote:
| Interesting, I have found the standard key spacing too far apart,
| I cannot fathom it being too close for some. I guess hand size
| variance is bigger than I think.
|
| Could you explain what you did to achieve "diodeless" design and
| how do you prevent masking?
| daliusd wrote:
| 34 keys are usually diodeless as many microcontrollers
| (promicro, elite-c and etc.) have enough connections to connect
| everything directly on one side of split keyboard and when you
| need one connection to communicate between sides. RP2040 can
| accommodate even more keys (even RP2040-zero). You need two
| microcontrollers of course.
| jogme wrote:
| > Could you explain what you did to achieve "diodeless" design
| and how do you prevent masking?
|
| I was not precise with the "diodeless" definition - the keys
| are directly connected to the processor pins without using a
| matrix. (Therefore there are no side effects of the matrix
| design - ghosting, masking, key rollover. The key presses are
| more precise and for me they seem more responsive - less
| latency, but unfortunately I have no data to prove this
| statement.) Thanks for the question, I will fix the definition!
|
| Also eliminating the diodes reduces the cost and the time it
| takes to build the keyboard, which is always nice IMO!
| gadgetoid wrote:
| I could believe you feel less latency, but suspect that's
| more a symptom of matrix scanning working for the general
| case rather than being optimised for your layout. Scan with
| an RP2040's PIO [1] and after debouncing I'd challenge you to
| measure the difference, much less notice it.
|
| (Of course if you've got the pins, you should use 'em!)
|
| 1. https://github.com/isoxliis/firmware-
| micropython/blob/72687e...
| jbarberu wrote:
| Having implemented a custom matrix in qmk, I can say the
| timescale involved is not something you'd notice a difference
| between diodes vs diodeless. On ARM boards there's a setup
| delay to let the gpio propagate before reading the columns,
| which by default is set to 0.25us, which means reading 4 rows
| would take about 1us.
|
| I built a macropad that has some regular keys and a SNES
| controller on the "same matrix", total scan time is 335us,
| which is dead slow as far as scanning goes, but nothing you'd
| be able to notice.
|
| Other points are fair though, fewer parts in the BOM. Though
| routing is a bit trickier with diodeless, especially if you
| also want to adressable RGB.
| jogme wrote:
| iiuc you are comparing matrix implementation with or without
| diodes. What would be the results between matrix against
| pin/key implementation? I am using QMK and I haven't looked
| under the hood what the "direct pin" actually does.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| Have you tried or were inspired by The Voyager? My friend has a
| Moonlander and we were discussing that the Voyager might be the
| ideal for the setup we were looking for.
|
| https://www.zsa.io/voyager
| jogme wrote:
| I haven't tried and wasn't aware of the Voyager at the time I
| started this project. Looking at it now, I think I would come
| to the same issue of the switches being too close to each
| other.
|
| My first split was a corne (I have a feeling that many people
| started with a corne here) and then I wanted a draculad[0], but
| it wasn't available for almost a year. These two keyboards had
| given the most of the inspiration for the YetiS.
|
| [0] - https://keebd.com/products/draculad-keyboard-kit
| Findecanor wrote:
| Interesting. Back in the '80s, the ergonomic keyboard [0]
| designed as part of the Japanese TRON project was originally
| supposed to be produced in three different key pitches for
| differently sized hands, based on measurements of Japanese people
| [1].
|
| Another aspect was that some key columns were splayed, being more
| apart further away. It has inspired many follow-ups in the DIY
| ergo-mech scene in more recent years.
|
| [0] http://xahlee.info/kbd/TRON_keyboard.html
|
| [1] https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/An-Implementation-
| of-t...
| bobmcnamara wrote:
| Years ago a chip supplier suggested using their RTOS. We asked
| what it was called. They nearly shouted, "Industrial standard
| Micro Industrial The Real-time Operating system Nucleus,
| haven't you heard of it?" This would begin a year of Google
| translation of Japanese RTOS docs.
|
| Neat keyboard. Also pretty cool how far the TRON project went
| and how many parts of computing it influenced.
| zamalek wrote:
| I'm currently designing a board from actual traces of my finger
| movements on paper (I was mildly amused when I found that they
| are not symmetrical, like all human features) in combination with
| these: https://fkcaps.com/keycaps/hex. It's also my first attempt
| at using a MCU directly (kinda, MDB50Q).
|
| Probably not possible to make a product from my anthropometrics,
| but I could try average out a few hands.
| jogme wrote:
| The human is not perfectly symmetrical by a vertical line -
| same as our faces!
|
| Do you have the project somewhere online to share - git, blog,
| reddit, etc.? I would like to have a follow up on your
| progress!
| zamalek wrote:
| Thanks for the interest, it's on the back burner at the
| moment because I'm currently rage-coding a text editor :).
| Here's the repo regardless
| https://codeberg.org/jcdickinson/hexkbd
| mnmalst wrote:
| Was wondering what "rage coding" means. After seeing your
| codeberg profile picture I have an idea now... :D
| jhardy54 wrote:
| If you have a large enough touchscreen, I'd also recommend
| https://pashutk.com/ergopad/
|
| (Note: this breaks down a bit once you move to concave key
| wells)
| jogme wrote:
| This tool is awesome for design! Thanks for sharing it!
| Tepix wrote:
| I have glove size 10 (XL usually) and the Keyboardio Model 100
| suits me well. Best keyboard i've seen so far.
| smeej wrote:
| I've yet to wrap my mind around two things that are extremely
| common on "ergonomic" keyboards: ortholinear keys, and the
| positions of the C, X, and Z keys in the columns.
|
| I type those with my index, middle, and ring fingers,
| respectively, because when I pull my fingers back toward my
| wrists with my hands sitting at a neutral angle, those are the
| keys they pass. Moving from A to Z on a regular keyboard would be
| a disaster of a hand position!
|
| Who is it who's teaching people to type that way on standard
| keyboards? I'm an elder Millennial, so the first class in my
| school that ever practiced typing in kindergarten, in the very
| early '90s. When and why did anyone switch to a horrible hand
| position?
|
| It's only from that horrible hand position that I can imagine
| "keys in a straight line" being an improvement. My index fingers
| cover more than one column of keys, so staggering them makes all
| of them easier to reach, rather than one set really easy and the
| other set much more awkward. My fingers do not move in straight
| lines from coiled to uncoiled, and I doubt other people's do
| either. They splay as they extend. They _should_ be able to cover
| more keys with less movement extended than they do coiled, so
| putting keys in straight lines makes it worse, not better.
| jhardy54 wrote:
| I agree, but would suggest that the solution is splayed columns
| rather than staggered rows. Lots of keyboards do this, even
| more "normal" keyboards that are far from being Dactyl-like:
| https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM
|
| Also relevant, but for improving the ergonomics of "normal"
| keyboards with staggered rows: angle mod.
| https://colemakmods.github.io/ergonomic-mods/angle.html
| jadyoyster wrote:
| I was taught touch typing with pinky on the Z and index on the
| V for the bottom row. I think that's how it's designed to work,
| and that in this context stagger is a historical accident that
| ergonomic keyboards fix.
| smeej wrote:
| This certainly lines up better with my actual fingers...
|
| http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/wp-
| content/uploads/2012/04/Z_...
| spiderice wrote:
| > I type those with my index, middle, and ring fingers
|
| I have never heard of anyone typing like this. I type those
| keys with my middle, ring, and pinky finger respectively.
|
| A quick google search of "qwerty finger map" shows that middle-
| ring-pinky seems to be the standard. I don't see any
| disagreement across any of the results. I suspect that your
| typing class was the exception, or you just picked up doing it
| differently than what was taught. I don't think there was a
| large scale "switch" on how things are taught.
|
| But yes, if you type differently than that then ortholinear
| keys would probably require you to make adjustments.
| setopt wrote:
| I'm not the one you replied to, but I generally type without
| using my pinky at all - including pressing Caps Lock (Ctrl)
| and Enter with my ring fingers. For me, I've had bad cases of
| RSI before, and find it more ergonomic to move my hands a bit
| more and avoid using the pinky most of the time.
| smeej wrote:
| The second image in this article shows the typing position
| I'm talking about, and the article as a whole does a decent
| job explaining why it's better (though it's probably fairly
| obvious if you just look at the shape your hands make when
| you bring them together).
|
| This was normal when I learned. Really wondering why anyone
| would change it.
|
| https://www.onehandkeyboard.org/standard-qwerty-finger-
| place...
| samatman wrote:
| > _It 's only from that horrible hand position that I can
| imagine "keys in a straight line" being an improvement._
|
| As long as you type comfortably, you're doing fine. But if you
| want to wrap your mind around it, that starts with grokking
| that not only do most touch typists type Z with the pinky, and
| so on in, that is how it's taught as well.
|
| So if it's what you do already, ortho just straightens that
| out. Most ortho keebs (I think? Not all of them, but most) are
| also splits, so the keyboard is lined up with the palm,
| something which isn't possible with a straight keyboard.
|
| So given all that, columned keys are great. It's 32 keys which
| I can type without any elbow movements at all. Add in some
| thumb keys and we're really cooking ^_^.
| smeej wrote:
| It wasn't until I started seeing ortho keyboards that I
| realized anyone had ever been taught this, and I still can't
| figure out _why._
|
| This placement was normal when I learned to type, and it
| matches much more closely the shape my hands naturally make
| if I bring them together in front of me:
| http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/wp-
| content/uploads/2012/04/Z_...
| zargon wrote:
| Typing instruction never changed. Standard method has always
| been pinky on z, since typewriters. You were just taught an
| unusual method (or maybe picked it up on your own).
|
| Ring finger on z is just as uncomfortable for me as pinky on z.
| The problem is the typewriter key layout, not finger placement.
| jhardy54 wrote:
| Neat! I'm surprised to see no splay, is it just subtle or have
| you decided against it? The thumbs look comfy and aren't tucked
| under the palm, which is my biggest complaint with most
| keyboards, but I'm using Miryoku (36 key layout) and I'm not sure
| that I'd know what to do with a 34-key layout.
|
| (Miryoku has a kludge to let you press two thumb keys at once to
| emulate the third, for 34-key keyboards, but that works best with
| low-travel switches very close together.)
|
| How do you like the lateral pinky position? I'm currently
| building a Dasbob and love the pinky splay/stagger, but I'm
| curious about moving the top pinky key to the right.
| jogme wrote:
| Thanks!
|
| Good point for the splay. For some reason I didn't consider it,
| but looking at it rn I could put a some of the keys in an angle
| which would feel better. I'll consider it for the next release
| (or a different version)!
|
| I have nothing against 36 keys layout, the only reason for
| eliminating 2 thumb keys is that I can't find a proper place
| for the third thumb key where it would be in a nice position. I
| could add one key at the inner side, but the thumb just goes
| below the palm and it is not a comfortable position (for me at
| least). If you have any suggestions, please let me know! There
| is always space for improvement.
|
| The lateral pinky position wasn't on the first design, but then
| someone with a shorter pinky who couldn't comfortably reach the
| top key tried it and suggested to place it there. I tried it
| and actually felt a lot better. (to reach the top pinky key I
| need to make a wrist movement, but not like this). I love it.
| jhardy54 wrote:
| Honestly I've never tried a 34-key layout, though I've seen
| loads in the keyboard layout DB. Are you using something like
| Seniply?
|
| Also in case it's useful: much ink has been spilled about
| TRRS and its alternatives, but I haven't found any references
| to folks using an I2C connector (4-pin JST) instead, which
| eliminates hotplugging risk _without_ introducing the risks
| of USB /etc.
|
| I purchased a KB2040 (which has a female I2C connector), a
| 400mm male-to-male I2C cable, and an I2C GPIO expander, which
| is slightly cheaper than a second RP2040 on the second hand
| (though a second KB2040 is cheap anyway). I'm optimistic
| about using I2C and avoiding TRRS, but wanted to highlight it
| as an option since I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere else.
| jogme wrote:
| If you are interested you can always try it out on your
| current kb, right?
|
| > Seniply Yes, the idea is the same. I'm using Base layer +
| 3 other and using one shot for the function keys. Tap dance
| wouldn't be a problem either, I just prefer one shot.
|
| > trrs cable Interesting idea. Why would you like to avoid
| TRRS? What are the issues with it? I am thinking for the
| next version some BLE between the sides as it has low
| latency, but it's a mere idea for now and more research is
| needed. (also it would be for a wireless version as it
| would need batteries anyway)
| jhardy54 wrote:
| Yep, I can just avoid using one of the keys, I just
| haven't seen many key maps with the sort of popularity
| that Miryoku has, and I _hate_ the analysis paralysis of
| trying to decide between 10 comparable keymaps (or trying
| to build my own from scratch).
|
| The issue with TRRS is that you can easily damage your
| controller(s?) if they're powered while the TRRS cable is
| either unplugged or left in a "not quite 100% plugged in"
| state, as the metal contacts in the connector create a
| short (between data and power IIRC?) when mid-way plugged
| in.
|
| I recently fried a controller this way because I didn't
| realize that the TRRS connector had gotten slightly
| yanked and was ~90% plugged in, creating a short, and the
| controller has been busted since.
|
| In general the advice is "never plug/unplug TRRS while
| your keyboard is powered" and "always check to make sure
| TRRS is fully seated", but in practice it's easy to make
| a mistake that requires replacing your controller (and
| desoldering it if you didn't socket it, oops).
| jogme wrote:
| I like the T-34 layout[0] - I like how much 'science'
| (research) did he put in it. An another one is the callum
| layout[1].
|
| There is an option with QMK to rediscover TRRS cable when
| it gets disconnected or is plugged after startup, but I
| see now that that's not the only problem. TRRS is an
| easy/cheap solution, but a dangerous one if not correct.
|
| [0] - https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2021/06/03/the-t-3
| 4-keyboar... [1] - https://github.com/callum-
| oakley/qmk_firmware/tree/master/us...
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| I have "XXL" size hands (some fingers push against tips of most
| XL gloves I try) and I find the Glove80 very comfortable fwiw
|
| https://www.moergo.com
|
| Switched from Kinesis Advantage after 15 years. Love the Pro Red
| config that's available out of box without expensive
| customization.
| ndrake wrote:
| How long have you been using the glove80? I'm a smaller handed
| KA2 user but have been eyeing up switching to a glove80. Any
| complaints or trouble switching?
| qubyte wrote:
| I designed my own for similar reasons, and it's interesting to
| see a somewhat similar position for the thumb keys. I optimised
| for hand/wrist position with minimal movement. However, I messed
| up the column stagger (off by one). Here's the writeup:
|
| https://qubyte.codes/blog/why-did-i-create-a-keyboard
| jogme wrote:
| Wow, looks cool!
|
| Interesting to see the thumb key positions are very similar to
| mine! Can you reach the outermost (outer regarding one half)
| thumb key without any issues?
|
| Is your hand position like two columns for the middle finger
| instead of the pointer finger?
| qubyte wrote:
| Yup, I can reach all three keys in each thumb cluster without
| a stretch. It's actually only a slight movement because my
| digits are quite long. My middle and ring fingers rest on the
| columns which are shifted up.
| donaldihunter wrote:
| I have been considering an ergonomic keyboard for a while and
| came pretty close to getting a sofle [0]. But I realised that I
| actually like having all the symbol keys. So now thinking about
| trying a keychron with alice layout [1]
|
| [0] https://josefadamcik.github.io/SofleKeyboard/
|
| [1] https://www.keychron.uk/products/keychron-k15-pro-alice-
| layo...
| jogme wrote:
| Putting a lot of things on layers instead of having them on
| hardware is not working for anyone so I can totally understand!
| What symbol keys are you missing from the sofle? I think most
| of the "missing" symbols are on the thumb keys.
| jperras wrote:
| I thought the same, and went from an Apple standard keyboard to
| a Moonlander. Some time after that I went to a custom 36-key
| split ergo board.
|
| It takes a little time to familiarize yourself, but you get
| very proficient with layers and home-row mods. The main benefit
| is that every single one of my fingers never has to move more
| than one key in any direction, and it has markedly improved my
| wrist health.
| nprateem wrote:
| It's like anything. You adapt. RSI forced me onto ergonomics so
| now I have all symbols on a layer. Going back to a normal
| keyboard now feels weird.
|
| I have layers (most with home row mods) for:
|
| - symbols (with long press-hold to simulate e.g. shift + keys
| like =, -, etc).
|
| - navigation (vim cursor keys on rh home row, pg up/dn, etc
| below) & F keys
|
| - numpad
|
| - media & custom app keys (e.g. auto-fill password from my
| password manager, etc)
|
| I also have long-press to switch window, copy, paste, undo
| (i.e. holding Z fires cmd-Z), combos for escape and caps.
|
| TBH it's all muscle memory now so they might not be right.
|
| Of course, there's a learning curve, but now I just use 34 keys
| (2 thumb keys each side, although dedicated shifts would be
| good instead of shift via home row mods which sometimes
| misfire).
|
| The main thing is to make up your own keymap that makes sense.
| Forget trying to learn someone elses.
| abhinavk wrote:
| On a staggered (aka standard) keyboard layout, common
| programming symbols like !@#$%&*()_{}:"<>? need Shift anyway.
| On these keyboard you simply hold Layer button with your thumb
| instead of Shift.
|
| One advantage is that you can now put the symbols on the home
| row.
| relaxing wrote:
| How big is "large palms"?
| jogme wrote:
| It is relative ofc, but at the bottom of the main page of the
| website is a downloadable and printable layout, with it you can
| try if your palm "largeness" is compatible with it or not. See
| if you can comfortably reach all the keys and how does it feel
| to virtually type on it.
| samatman wrote:
| Looks great! I don't understand how you minimal-key-count types
| manage, but that's a me thing.
|
| I'm taking the wrist pain comment as a jumping off point to
| remind those of us who type a lot (surely a comfortable
| majority!) that a major part of ergonomics is technique. Finding
| the right equipment for you is a part of that (I use an ergo
| split myself), but no keyboard can compensate for bad technique.
|
| As an example, I always wince when I see a wrist rest involved in
| a setup. Wrists should not rest! Proper technique keeps the hands
| floating above the keyboard, with minimal or no wrist flexion
| (flexion is in toward the inner wrist) or wrist movement.
| Excursions from the home row should proceed from the elbows, not
| the wrists. Even a small amount of extension (opposite of
| flexion) is bad for you, stretching the tendons which are flexing
| to type keys.
|
| Palms perpendicular with the keyboard, about two inches above it,
| and be sure that your rest position has no wrist extension! Flat
| is ideal, a bit of flexion is ok. Good keyboard technique is much
| the same between the piano and typing keyboards. Palms
| perpendicular means that if the keyboard surface is tilted toward
| you, fix that. A single-piece keeb should be level or point
| slightly toward the screen, and a split should be tented.
|
| It's fine to rest your wrists on something: when you aren't
| typing. When you are, it is not fine at all. Once serious RSI and
| tendon inflammation sets in, there's no going back, it's a
| condition you'll be managing for years, if not the rest of your
| life.
|
| If you're experiencing any discomfort typing, or after, by all
| means look into equipment. But also, please, immediately give
| some focus to your technique. Identify specific keyboard actions
| that violate the "do not move the hands from the wrist" rule, and
| focus on not doing them. Backspace is a common offender, to the
| point where I mapped caps lock to that key in response to
| shooting pains in my outer right wrist.
|
| To land this back in the thread: laying out all the keys so that
| no hand (not wrist, hand) movement is necessary, like the
| keyboard in the Fine Article does, is certainly one way to
| prevent wrist movement. I think it's super cool that you worked
| out a spacing which is right for your hands, too. Even a keyboard
| like this can't help you if you type from a wrist-extended
| position, but it surely makes it much easier not to do that!
|
| But for those of us with keyboards where you do move your hands,
| please, for the sake of your future self: move your hands from
| the elbows, not with wrist bends. It doesn't take long to get the
| hang of it, and the difference is night and day.
| jogme wrote:
| Thanks! Technique for sure does a lot, but after you find the
| right tool, it's just pain to go back.
| clircle wrote:
| If want to get into ortholinear boards, but also want a keyboard
| with lots of keys, I recommend the Xbows boards. I got an Xbows
| lite off Ebay for $60, and it's my current fave.
| User23 wrote:
| I like it, but like every other keyboard that I've ever seen the
| modifier keys are in the wrong spot.
|
| As John Napier shows in his masterwork _Hands_ , the hand is
| created such that the thumb easily and precisely works in
| opposition to the fingers. The thumb shouldn't be working alone,
| it should always be in concert with the fingers. Furthermore,
| since there are four natural positions for the thumb, there
| should be four naturally positioned modifier keys under each
| thumb.
|
| From there two obvious approaches come to mind. One is to stick
| to a more or less traditional layout with some minor tweaking
| like you see with existing boards, the only real difference being
| the location of shift, control, alt, and meta. The other is to go
| all in on chording. With a total of 8 modifiers where each thumb
| can reasonably hold down up to two adjacent, there's enough
| chording opportunity to have no wrist movement whatsoever. Such a
| design might resemble a musical instrument far more than a
| computer keyboard.
| opan wrote:
| What do you think of the thumb keys on the Pinky4 keyboard by
| tamanishi?
|
| https://github.com/tamanishi/Pinky4
|
| Even the leftmost one is about as far over as Alt on a typical
| keyboard.
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