[HN Gopher] The Origins of DS_store (2006)
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       The Origins of DS_store (2006)
        
       Author : edavis
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2024-07-03 21:55 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.arno.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.arno.org)
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Aside from this file, the "fork" concept of Mac file systems
       | caused some wtf moments. Fork not being fork() but being the two-
       | pronged idea in that file system, both a resource and a data
       | component existed as pair. One metadata and one the file
       | contents. In Unix, the metadata was in the directory block inode,
       | and wasn't bound to the file in a formalism uniquely, it had to
       | be represented by structure in tar, or cpio or zip distinctly.
       | Implementing Mac compatible file support in Unix meant treating
       | the resource fork first class and the obvious way you do it is
       | for each file have .file beside it.
       | 
       | You couldn't map all the properties of the resource fork into an
       | inode block of the time in UFS. It has stuff like the icon. More
       | modern fs may have larger directory block structure and can
       | handle the data better.
        
         | senderista wrote:
         | You have the same "resource fork" concept in Unix xattrs and
         | NTFS streams.
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | No disagree, Both came later IIRC. Melbourne unis work on
           | appletalk and Apple file system support was in the late 80s
           | and I believe POSIX xattr spec work was mid nineties, NTFS
           | was '93 or so. The fork model in apple file store was
           | eighties work.
        
             | nullindividual wrote:
             | GP wasn't arguing about timelines.
             | 
             | NTFS ADS were created to accommodate Mac OS resource forks
             | on network volumes when using AFP.
        
         | pkaye wrote:
         | NTFS has alternate data streams. I think its hardly ever used.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS#Alternate_data_stream_(AD...
        
           | asvitkine wrote:
           | Used by malware mostly, I think.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | Resource fork used to contain all the stuff you could edit with
         | ResEdit (good old times!) right? Icons, various gui resources,
         | could be text and translation assets too. For example Escape
         | Velocity plugins used custom resource types and a ResEdit
         | plugin made them easy to edit there.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | It's worth mentioning how to turn off the creation of .DS_Store
       | files for network volumes - otherwise the directory modified
       | timestamps are updated as you browse using the Finder, which is
       | Just Plain Terrible.
       | 
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/lvju40/comment/gpc8i...
        
         | black_puppydog wrote:
         | Personally I make sure mac users do this before they get write
         | access to a network share. It's just a matter of common curtesy
         | IMHO.
        
         | DidYaWipe wrote:
         | Not to mention that it's an obnoxious and incompetent design.
         | Look at the fact that Mac OS litters every other computer it
         | visits with turds, for its own (and in fact only one user's)
         | benefit. It's doubly stupid because the next browsing Mac that
         | comes along trounces the previous one's turd.
         | 
         | If Apple wanted to store view settings for remote volumes (or
         | even local volumes), the competent design would have been to
         | store them locally (and per user) in a central location on the
         | machine doing the browsing.
         | 
         | I remember the promised re-write of Finder and thought it never
         | happened. Nothing seems to have improved for the user. I could
         | post a list of decades-old defects that persist today.
         | 
         | The one thing I can think of that has finally been fixed (and
         | this was long after the "rewrite") was that you can now finally
         | sort the file list properly: with folders at the top.
         | 
         | Now I wish someone would explain something that might actually
         | be worse than DS-turds: the presence of a "Contents"
         | subdirectory in every goddamned Apple package. I mean... who
         | thought you needed to create a directory called "Contents" to
         | hold the contents of the parent directory? It's mind-boggling.
        
           | threeseed wrote:
           | > the competent design would have been to store them locally
           | (and per user) in a central location on the machine doing the
           | browsing
           | 
           | Not sure but it could be the case that when you mount a
           | network drive there isn't a stable identifier that can be
           | used to track it.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | If you run Samba you can also configure Samba to just ignore
         | such creations.
        
       | l33tman wrote:
       | Maybe unrelated to this, but I noticed fairly recently that my
       | backups from my macbook now backup seemingly randomly modified
       | pdf and txt files all over the disk. My guess is that whenever I
       | search for something, it decides to touch a couple of hundred
       | files (but not ALL pdf/txt files for some reason).
        
       | thought_alarm wrote:
       | > _Those files should only be created if the user actually makes
       | adjustments to the view settings or set a manual location for
       | icons in a folder. That's unfortunately not what happens and
       | visiting a folder pretty much guarantees that a .DS_Store file
       | will get created_
       | 
       | This is my number one frustration with the Finder.
       | 
       | You can customize the look and size of individual folder windows
       | in many interesting ways, al a the Classic Mac OS Finder, which
       | is a really great feature. But if you blow through that same
       | folder in a browser window then most of those customization are
       | lost, overwritten with the settings of that browser window, even
       | if you never change anything.
       | 
       | What's the point of allowing all of these great customizations
       | when they're so easily clobbered?
       | 
       | I have a global hot key to bring up the Applications folder. I'd
       | love to customize the look of that window, but it's pointless.
       | Whenever I hit that hot key I have no idea what I'm going to get.
       | It's always getting reset.
       | 
       | By the way, the reason it does this is because the Finder has no
       | way to set a default browser window configuration. So instead, it
       | just leaves behind the current browser settings in each folder it
       | visits. Super frustrating.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | DS Store seems so unfortunate. Yes it serves a purpose. Yes you
       | can work around it in various ways. But the reality is that it's
       | basically proliferated file litter to 99% of people who come
       | across it. It's uncharacteristically un-Apple in terms of UX
       | polish.
       | 
       | Growing up with both System 7.5 / OSX, and windows machines, the
       | Macs never seemed inclined to make me see extraneous files,
       | filetypes, and other "how the computer works" implementation
       | details. It's just so odd to my mental model of it all to see
       | this file end up everywhere.
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-03 23:00 UTC)