[HN Gopher] Venezuela is first Andean country to lose all of its...
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       Venezuela is first Andean country to lose all of its glaciers
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2024-07-01 20:30 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nbcnews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nbcnews.com)
        
       | Synaesthesia wrote:
       | Kilimanjaro will soon lose its glacier too.
        
       | getoj wrote:
       | Venezuelan singer-songwriter Jorge Drexler, who grew up around
       | these glaciers, wrote a poignant lament[1] in anticipation of
       | this day. The gist is that at this point the only thing to do is
       | to grieve for the world we have already lost. I don't think
       | there's anything else to say.
       | 
       |  _Y cuando el momento llegue, honremos nuestras heridas /
       | Celebremos la belleza que se aleja hacia otras vidas / Y aunque
       | la pena nos hiera, que no nos desampare / Y que encontremos la
       | manera de despedir a los glaciares_
       | 
       | (When the moment comes, let us honor our wounds / celebrate the
       | beauty that goes off to other lives / and although the sorrow
       | stings, I hope it will remain / and that we find a way to say
       | goodbye to the glaciers)
       | 
       | [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNsFF_eaXBU
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | Jorge is one hard-hitting poet. Dang.
        
         | jaimebuelta wrote:
         | Not to take away the poetry, but Jorge Drexler is from Uruguay
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Drexler
        
           | nullwriter wrote:
           | In a way, I'm happy its not Venezuela. Although still sad
           | that this is happening
        
         | brezelgoring wrote:
         | Hi! Jorge Drexler is not Venezuelan but from Uruguay [1].
         | 
         | I should know, I'm from there as well and he is one of our few
         | cultural exports aside from Football.
         | 
         | [1] - https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Drexler
        
         | Tao3300 wrote:
         | > the only thing to do is to grieve for the world we have
         | already lost
         | 
         | Tears won't put a glacier back.
        
       | bamboozled wrote:
       | I don't really have words for this. It's hard to contemplate why
       | have done this to our home.
       | 
       | We're like a group of vandals just breaking things for the hell
       | of it.
       | 
       | Such beauty and the home to many species, wiped out...
        
       | nickburns wrote:
       | "Scientists believe its disappearance makes Venezuela the _first
       | country in the Americas -- and the first country in modern
       | history_ -- to lose all its glaciers [emphasis added]. "
       | 
       | Title inaccurate. This goes well beyond only 'Andean countries.'
       | 
       | EDIT: To the 4+ dol--I mean, people who have now downvoted this
       | comment: 'the Americas' is commonly geographically understood to
       | mean the land masses of both North and South America. There are
       | glaciers present in both 'Americas.' The Andean mountains are
       | only present in South America. Jesus, this place is stupid today.
        
       | RONROC wrote:
       | Climate change is real but its effects are overblown. Weeping for
       | a glacier that would of melted a few years later regardless of
       | public opinion seems insufficient
        
         | ljsprague wrote:
         | Agreed. I'm much more concerned about deforestation in the
         | Amazon.
        
         | CodeWriter23 wrote:
         | I'm open to listening to Climate Scientist that considers
         | Astrophysics as a factor. The rest can keep their pseudoscience
         | to themselves as far as I'm concerned.
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | Sorry, best we can do are celebrities wagging their fingers
           | at you.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | And yet, in the US, CO2 emissions are about where they were in
       | 1990 (which is better than 2005, but very far from where it
       | should be) https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/carbon/
        
         | TaylorAlexander wrote:
         | What are the emissions when we account for goods manufactured
         | overseas? In 1990, much more of our manufactured goods were
         | included in US emissions. Now most of our manufactured goods
         | have their emissions in other countries.
        
           | insane_dreamer wrote:
           | Really good point; that's why we have to look at global
           | emissions; I just pointed to US ones as I couldn't find
           | global ones more recent than 2021 (which are here:
           | https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/data-
           | tools/greenhous...
           | 
           | The picture is bleak; globally we are rapidly approaching 2x
           | 1990 levels
        
             | cchance wrote:
             | Ya notice how energy has gone down, but industry based co2
             | production has doubled lol
        
           | philipkglass wrote:
           | The term for this is "consumption based emissions." You can
           | find charts for it at Our World In Data. Here's the chart for
           | the US along with an explanation of the methodology:
           | 
           | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-
           | capit...
           | 
           | The US is improving even after accounting for imports.
           | Consumption-based emissions were 20.3 tons per capita in 1990
           | and peaked in 2005 at 22.7 tons per capita, declining to 14.9
           | tons per capita as of 2022. Of course present emissions per
           | capita are not as low as if imports had no CO2 footprint.
        
         | cchance wrote:
         | Isn't this just "ENERGY" related emissions... it doesn't
         | account for CO2 as a whole emissions just those in relation to
         | production of energy, farming etc, aren't accounted for nor all
         | the CO2 sources we technically just shipped overseas as we
         | reduced local production but increased imports.
        
       | margalabargala wrote:
       | > Between 1952 and 2019 alone, Venezuela's glacier surface went
       | from 2,317 square kilometers to just 0.046 square kilometers,
       | according to a 2020 study.
       | 
       | Checked the study because those numbers seemed suspect. That's
       | 2.3 square kilometers, not 2300.
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | Could that be from confusion between the use of comma as
         | decimal symbol and periods to denote thousands? (German
         | practice)
        
           | margalabargala wrote:
           | I'm familiar with the practice, but it must be quite the
           | confusion to mix both in the same sentence.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Many countries use comma as the decimal separator, in fact,
         | using comma is more common than using a dot if you go by the
         | number of countries. [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | Any countries that use both?
           | 
           | Because they also wrote "0.046".
        
           | MaulingMonkey wrote:
           | They usually do not _mix_ decimal seperators _in the same
           | sentence_ however, and as leading zeros are generally avoided
           | on integers,  "0.046" is pretty clearly using a period as the
           | decimal seperator.
        
         | harlanlewis wrote:
         | This may be the study:
         | 
         | https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15230430.2020.1...
         | 
         | Quote from the abstract:
         | 
         | > In Venezuela, glacial area has decreased 98 percent between
         | 1952 and 2019 (from 2.317 km2 to 0.046 km2).
         | 
         | So it appears you are correct. I looked it up because I was
         | skeptical of your skepticism - Washington state is at a very
         | different latitude, but at 1/5 the area of Venezuela has ~450
         | sq km of glaciers. Mt Rainier alone has 90 sq km.
         | 
         | https://glaciers.us/glaciers.research.pdx.edu/Glaciers-Washi...
         | 
         | There's no arguing against extreme glacial retreat (I started
         | this by fact-checking your downplay), but this article does
         | feel pretty sensational about a place that didn't really have
         | glaciers to begin with.
        
           | margalabargala wrote:
           | I did not mean to downplay severity. I live in an area with a
           | few dozen glaciers, and I've spent the last decade watching
           | them become smaller and smaller with each passing year.
           | 
           | The article being off by three orders of magnitude annoyed me
           | because the loss of that quantity of ice in one location in
           | just 70 years would be catastrophic; if we assume 40 meter
           | thickness, that's 58 cubic kilometers of water added into the
           | local watershed.
           | 
           | As it stands, the statistic is "just" depressing.
        
       | beeandapenguin wrote:
       | A related article from NASA Earth Observatory has a slider to
       | compare satellite images of the glacier.
       | 
       | https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/152893/humboldt-gla...
        
       | p51-remorse wrote:
       | So, we're all onboard for nuclear, right? And we're all going to
       | vote for anyone who will fast track building nuclear plants and
       | cut through some regulatory crap?
       | 
       | If this is an emergency, and it looks like it is, let's start
       | treating it that way. Clean energy is a solved problem.
        
         | lanstin wrote:
         | If only your post were from 2001 instead of a time when solar +
         | batteries is so much faster to deploy and cheaper to build than
         | nuclear. Tho, of course, there is a good amount of funding for
         | nuclear in Biden's climate change law. It kept us in California
         | from moth-balling a nuclear plant, but the new money seems to
         | be for industrial sized battery plants.
        
       | flykespice wrote:
       | Can it be reversed?
        
       | goldname wrote:
       | dont worry theyll grow back
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | At the risk of sounding completely ignorant, haven't the glaciers
       | been disappearing since the ice age? Didn't some sort of glacial
       | period last end about 10,000 years ago?
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-01 23:02 UTC)