[HN Gopher] Postzegelcode
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       Postzegelcode
        
       Author : tdeck
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2024-06-30 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | What happens when I share my code with others? I.e. when there
       | are multiple letters with the same code found in an outgoing post
       | box?
        
         | consp wrote:
         | Only the first one would be legal and the recipients would have
         | to pay for the postal cost of the next one. If you put the
         | origin (postal code plus home number is enough) on the back you
         | get a payment proposal in your mailbox.
        
         | Boltgolt wrote:
         | IIRC the first envelope scanned at a sorting facility
         | invalidates the postzegelcode immediately, any envelopes using
         | it after that will be handled like they had no postzegel at all
         | (receiver has to pay)
        
           | OptionOfT wrote:
           | What if you mail 2 and they are scanned at the same time and
           | the database isn't up to date yet?
        
             | dc96 wrote:
             | Seems strange they would design a system that could scan
             | faster than they could process the DB, no? I assume there's
             | some queue in between. But the real answer is probably
             | just: multiple scans happen for the same piece of mail.
             | Eventually, one or both of them will be marked as due for
             | payment. The question then becomes, was it worth saving the
             | postage cost for what is potentially a much costlier
             | penalty?
        
             | contravariant wrote:
             | You may find they will refuse service to you for
             | unspecified reasons.
        
         | molf wrote:
         | For all mail except the first, the same thing that happens if
         | you send a letter with no postage: the sender will receive a
         | request to pay after delivery. If the sender is unknown the
         | recipient will receive a request to pay (which can be
         | appealed).
        
           | miunau wrote:
           | I mail a fair amount of physical media using the
           | postzegelcode. If you put a return address, PostNL just
           | returns the letter with a sticker on it saying the postage
           | was not enough. They won't deliver it.
        
             | lancebeet wrote:
             | If they deliver the letter to the return address, what
             | prevents you from writing the target address as the return
             | address and getting it delivered for free?
        
               | hananova wrote:
               | They know approximately the area the return address
               | should be at, and they also know who used the app to buy
               | the code.
        
               | cedilla wrote:
               | It's also some kind of fraud in most jurisdictions, or
               | subject to an extra fee if discovered.
               | 
               | Germany's new stamps aren't stamped any more - a QR code
               | gets scanned and logged instead - so people thought they
               | were lucky when they received unstamped letters and
               | decided to re-use the stamp. They got hit with a fine.
        
         | 6510 wrote:
         | In my experience it will be delivered and the sender will be
         | politely asked to pay for it. They don't have to pay for it but
         | it's rude not to.
        
           | dmurray wrote:
           | > They don't have to pay for it but it's rude not to.
           | 
           | Given that this is the Netherlands, that sounds like "they
           | won't pay for it".
        
           | miunau wrote:
           | Hmm. When was this? I've had the code read wrong a few times
           | and they just have returned the letter. Then I've gotten a
           | refund for the postage through their customer service.
        
       | skrebbel wrote:
       | It works real well for people like me who don't send physical
       | mail often. Just pay online and write the code onto an envelope
       | with a pen.
       | 
       | I love the simplicity.
        
         | berkes wrote:
         | For me too.
         | 
         | I used to have a sheet of stamps lying around. Often only one
         | was used. Then those would "expire" after years, in the sense
         | that (yearly?) tariff-increasments would invalidate the "now
         | too cheap" ones. I then had to buy additional special ones to
         | compensate for the price.
         | 
         | Digital is the way forward and this is a perfect example of
         | simple digital to analog. It works fantastic.
        
           | Sharlin wrote:
           | Generally there are also non-denominated "forever" stamps
           | available whose real value will remain the same despite
           | changing rates.
        
             | saghm wrote:
             | I assume you're talking about the US? I thought that
             | nowadays all US postal stamps are "forever" ones as of
             | several years ago, but maybe it's just the post offices
             | around where I've lived that don't bother selling the
             | "temporary" ones.
        
               | Sharlin wrote:
               | I'm talking worldwide (I only have first-hand experience
               | about Finland, but they seem common according to
               | Wikipedia)
        
               | ohmyiv wrote:
               | > maybe it's just the post offices around where I've
               | lived that don't bother selling the "temporary" ones.
               | 
               | Are we talking about US? If so, it might be your office.
               | The one near me tries to sell me all kinds when I
               | actually go in to do stuff. USPS still sells varying rate
               | stamps ranging 1 cent additional postage to $30 priority
               | mail express stamps.
        
           | consp wrote:
           | The old stamps with a monetary value you would have to "add"
           | value by adding a stamp if the cost increased (and people
           | were adding 5ct coins as a result). The new ones (1/2
           | numbered) do not expire and keep their relative value. [1]
           | 
           | 1. https://www.postnl.nl/klantenservice/tarieven-
           | postzegels/gel...
        
         | theginger wrote:
         | Ok now I get it. Somehow despite all the detail the Wikipedia
         | article doesn't seem to capture the point of it.
         | 
         | This does lead me to wonder what happens when something gets
         | held up and it's an older code (sir) but it checks out.
        
           | timvdalen wrote:
           | You (if you wrote a return address) or the receiver (if you
           | didn't) get a bill that you can either pay or ignore
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | I wonder if any of the 9 characters are checksum (the example
       | math indicates none is), or if the validation scan allows a
       | search without one of the characters e.g AB1?3XYZ in case of
       | sloppy writing.
       | 
       | If not, then the system relies on people being able to write 9
       | consecutive legible characters. With postal codes and addresses
       | it's less fragile because the context helps disambiguate (a last
       | name helps a postman tell if a street address has a 7 or 1)
        
         | dark-star wrote:
         | Since there is already a framework for returning letters with
         | invalid/unreadable/damaged addresses, I'd guess the overhead of
         | returning wrongly-written postzegelcodes is negligible.
        
         | molf wrote:
         | In the case of sloppy writing, the letter will be ejected from
         | the sorting machine and reviewed by a human (same process as
         | for illegible addresses).
         | 
         | If a human cannot find a match then the sender will receive a
         | request to pay for the missing postage (presuming the code is
         | invalid). If the sender is unknown the recipient will receive a
         | payment request (which can be appealed).
         | 
         | Speaking from experience you would normally want the letter to
         | arrive at its destination so I take care to write the code very
         | clearly. I imagine this is true for most people.
        
           | kr2 wrote:
           | You massively underestimate the care or thought some
           | Americans give to anything including legibly writing an
           | address; very cool look into how USPS handles that situation
           | (link free to read without subscription)
           | 
           | https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/us/where-mail-with-
           | illegi...
        
       | pacifika wrote:
       | I wonder why they wouldn't take the address at the time of
       | payment so it's not needed on the actual letter. That seems more
       | convenient. Backwards compatibility?
        
         | Kiala wrote:
         | Or, you know, the mail man?
        
           | Sharlin wrote:
           | Clearly mailmen would just be expected to use their phones to
           | decode the addresses on demand, because everything is
           | supposed to require a phone and an internet connection these
           | days.
           | 
           | A bit more realistically, the address could be printed on a
           | sticker by the sorting machine, the way address redirections
           | are handled.
        
             | dfox wrote:
             | For a mail/parcel carrier relabeling anything is (somewhat
             | surprisingly) a significant added cost (and there is not
             | that much of margin), so they will do everything in their
             | power to not do that unless absolutely necessary.
        
               | Denvercoder9 wrote:
               | PostNL relabels approximately all parcels addressed to me
               | (I almost always have to change either the delivery date
               | or location to one convenient to me), completely free of
               | charge.
        
         | sodality2 wrote:
         | If mail gets lost for longer than 5 days, it won't be known who
         | it goes to, since these codes are reused.
        
           | pacifika wrote:
           | Then you can write any code down and wait 5 days to send it
        
             | afro88 wrote:
             | Probably the sender has to be linked to the current code
             | for it to be accepted
        
             | t0mas88 wrote:
             | You can, but an invalid code is treated as if there was no
             | postage stamp on it at all. So your letter will be returned
             | or the receiver is asked to pay.
             | 
             | A code that's past the validity date is probably considered
             | an invalid code as well.
        
         | ale42 wrote:
         | Not sure about NL, but in Switzerland you can buy those codes
         | with an SMS. I guess many people want to do it quickly, and
         | they might have already written the address of the recipient.
         | So just getting a code it much faster, you don't have to enter
         | the address somewhere.
        
         | dfox wrote:
         | When we started our own parcel service in 2015 we thought that
         | everything that is needed on the actual parcel is the unique ID
         | of the parcel (generated by a system reminiscent of twitter's
         | snowflake and intentionally printed with digits shuffled around
         | as to increase the chance of the prefix being unique). Pretty
         | quickly we found out that various operational concerns need
         | additional data on the label, with routing info (for manual
         | pre-sorting on the depots) and recipients phone number (the
         | courier locates the parcel in the trunk by that) being pretty
         | important.
         | 
         | Also, cool design of the label is one thing, but on both laser
         | and thermal printers the resolution repeatability is much
         | better in the direction perpendicular to the paper travel, so
         | you do not want to do cute design things with vertical
         | barcodes. And you want to have a huge margin below the barcode
         | if it is aligned to the bottom of the label as some printers
         | will occasionally get misaligned and part of the barcode will
         | get on the next label... and the imaging scanners in Zebra
         | terminals will happily read half a milimetre high code-128
         | barcode instead of the correct one on the bottom of the label.
        
       | gglnx wrote:
       | Germany has this too: #PORTO and the code.
       | https://www.deutschepost.de/de/m/mobile-briefmarke.html (and
       | valid for 3 years after you bought it)
        
         | ahartmetz wrote:
         | Cool, I didn't know that. I still have a few self-printed QR
         | code-type stamps. #PORTO is a nice option.
        
         | intothemild wrote:
         | Same here in Norway.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | It is only purchasable if you install their software, can't
         | just buy such a stamp on the website if I'm reading the page
         | correctly?
         | 
         | I seem to remember Deutsche Post also had a thing you could
         | just write on the letter, or maybe it was DHL's parcel service
         | instead. Those were purchased simply online like any other
         | product/service and, after paying, it told you what to write in
         | the corner. Or maybe I misremember and they only have this
         | system where you can take the pdf to a parcel shop and have
         | them print your label.
         | 
         | Edit: found the "print in store" option, it's not for letters
         | but for parcels https://www.dhl.de/de/privatkunden/pakete-
         | versenden/angebot-... "Don't have a printer? Let your stamp be
         | printed at [places]."
        
           | cedilla wrote:
           | There used to be a premium number you could send an SMS to.
           | It was more expensive than a normal stamp to cover for the
           | expensive billing.
           | 
           | "Handyporto" replaced this and that's probably also why you
           | can't buy it on the website. Deutsche Post probably can't
           | conceive of people who don't own a printer so they heavily
           | advertise "Internetmarke" which requires one.
        
       | fhackenberger wrote:
       | There's a very similar system in Germany with a hashtag code from
       | Deutsche Post since 2020, called #PORTO:
       | 
       | https://www.deutschepost.de/de/m/mobile-briefmarke.html
        
       | vitplister wrote:
       | This is available in Sweden as well
       | https://kopfrakt.postnord.se/service/digitalt-frimarke
        
       | timvdalen wrote:
       | Works pretty well, definitely less work than having to go to a
       | store to buy a single stamp whenever I need to send a letter
        
       | atemerev wrote:
       | Also works in Switzerland.
        
       | banish-m4 wrote:
       | Americans ought to petition USPS to do this. It sounds extremely
       | convenient because it doesn't require a Pitney Bowes printer or
       | printing anything from Endicia.
       | 
       | PS: Are those tiny, cheap, desktop laser engravers powerful
       | enough to "print" on paper without starting a fire?
        
         | tichiian wrote:
         | > PS: Are those tiny, cheap, desktop laser engravers powerful
         | enough to "print" on paper without starting a fire?
         | 
         | Yes, you can modulate their power. It usually takes a few
         | experiments if the manual doesn't have a material table.
        
       | fullspectrumdev wrote:
       | A similar system (that I have not used yet) has been adopted in
       | Ireland, and apparently it works really well?
        
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