[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How to find a new job when I'm not good at n...
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Ask HN: How to find a new job when I'm not good at networking?
I'm not a genius, nor do I believe I'm the absolute best at what I
do. It took me 30 years to realize that, no matter how good I am,
networking often determines success. I'm in a career I don't enjoy,
unable to move up or change, while others get jobs through
connections. About 80% of my colleagues were hired this way, while
a few of us got in by luck. Networking seems to drive career
advancement. I'm naturally a loner and find it hard to feign
interest in others' lives. I prefer spending time alone and
struggle to genuinely connect with people. Emotional intimacy
drains me, and I dread future interactions, even though I know this
is normal. While I'm okay being alone, I feel that relationships
are crucial for progress after a certain point. I even broke up
with my partner because I can't handle constant companionship. It
was so draining that I stopped enjoying sexual intimacy. I'm fine
without a partner; I don't want to subject anyone to my solitude.
However, I want to change careers, and I know connections are
vital. I'm feeling stuck and unsure how to move forward. It seems
the two crucial factor (luck and networking) are outside my
influence.
Author : rrgok
Score : 29 points
Date : 2024-06-29 20:26 UTC (2 hours ago)
| nullindividual wrote:
| People suck.
|
| Have you thought about a career coach or hitting up a recruiter
| at a recruiting company? They can 'advertise' and promote you to
| their clients. Often times they only staff temporary positions
| (i.e. v-endortrash), but sometimes it is permanent placement.
| iteria wrote:
| You could form relationships with recruiters. You don't need to
| be close with recruiters, just reliable. I've found that
| connections with other professionals is better for getting into
| niche positions, but good recruiters have placed me into
| excellent positions as well. It's just a slog to weed out crappy
| shotgun recruiters from quality ones.
|
| Ultimately, though, I ponder about your professional connection
| problem. You don't need to be super close friends to have people
| refer you for things. Just pleasant. I see what you say, but part
| of your career as you advance is managing people's feelings. If
| people don't walk away feeling good from interactions with you,
| then I don't think you're doing your job well. That doesn't mean
| you have to smiley and be fake, but people can't feel like you
| don't care at all about what they are emotionally invested in
| whether that be the project or their career or whatever. It's
| worth considering that you might be lacking a skill for higher
| levels of work and even if you got those positions you'd hate
| them because of how much emotional labor is involved.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Networking seems to drive career advancement."
|
| I come to this realization too. The world is not a meritocracy
| like we are taught as children.
|
| In my case, I have a disability that makes networking difficult
| and feel immoral to me. Frankly, any company spouting DEI and
| still supporting networking is hypocritical.
| kingkongjaffa wrote:
| > feel immoral
|
| > any company spouting DEI and still supporting networking is
| hypocritical
|
| Not to take anything away from your personal situation, but
| this is a self-defeating mindset to have.
|
| People, i.e. social humans in companies, are WIRED to seek out
| known quantities.
|
| Networking and having someone vouch for you is not some scheme
| to subvert some utopian idea of meritocracy, but really an
| evolutionary social dynamic response.
|
| We pick people like us, we pick people we like, we pick people
| who can improve the group, we pick people who can do things for
| the group. (having your own strong network is also something
| you can bring to the group in the form of more referrals, and
| potentially new clients etc.) Which is also why alumni networks
| are a thing.
|
| There's no trick, and networking doesn't need to be sleazy, and
| it isn't immoral. Be likable, reach out to people, ask them for
| help, offer to help them.
|
| Ironically, and arguably, the biggest threat to this is
| LinkedIn which lets people build a huge network that is only
| puddle deep.
|
| Those 1000 connections on linkedin are worth less than 5 deep
| connections you've had coffee chats or lunch with in your same
| city and same industry.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "We pick people like us, we pick people we like,"
|
| This is exactly the type of bias that marginalizes people
| like me.
|
| "There's no trick, and networking doesn't need to be sleazy,
| and it isn't immoral."
|
| It doesn't _need_ to be, but it overwhelmingly ends up that
| way. It often completely cuts out anyone from the outgroup or
| unknown, even if they are deserving candidates. It leads to
| wasted effort from candidates when the person being picked is
| essentially a forgone conclusion. I 've had friends offer to
| open a posting for me for a promotion in the company. These
| sort of backroom deals are wrong.
|
| "but really an evolutionary social dynamic response."
|
| Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right.
| Insider trading is essentially the same thing, but for
| securities, yet that's illegal.
| kingkongjaffa wrote:
| > Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it
| right.
|
| True, but you're not going to be able change it either via
| evolution or culture change, so rather than make excuses
| and complain you might as well try to understand the best
| you can and figure out path that works for you within an
| unfair and unaccommodating system.
|
| Back on topic Regarding OP, the book "never eat alone" is a
| great way to learn this stuff and anyone wanting to improve
| tactics and mindset for networking should read it.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I don't know about that. Isn't the whole point of DEI to
| undo evolution that results in tribal organization,
| stereotyping, etc?
| threeseed wrote:
| > spouting DEI and still supporting networking is hypocritical
|
| Networking is simply about building relationships with people.
|
| This is a skill you will need in order to make it through the
| interview process and make yourself likeable to the hiring
| manager and the team. To conflate it with DEI which is all
| about inclusion is pretty low.
| moneywoes wrote:
| > building relationships with people
|
| I was told r.e. networking this is basically doing things for
| people and not expecting anything in return? Have done this
| often ( e.g. writing/reviewing resumes, finding job posts,
| sharing mutual connections who are hiring) and have received
| nothing in return. Not sure if I'm missing anything
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Doing those kind of things brings the opportunity to
| communicate with someone you may not have otherwise met. It
| gets you attention.
|
| You still have to talk to them and form a relationship like
| any other interaction.
|
| For reasons I don't understand I'm relatively good at
| making friends. I certainly have a lot of them. Maybe it's
| simply because I am genuinely curious about other people
| and their interests. (A rather unexpected trait for someone
| who is quite happy hiding in the proverbial parent's
| basement.)
|
| I still have a high miss rate. The only way to make friends
| is meeting people and talking to them. This doesn't require
| being in person. Most of my current friends come from the
| furry community and many of them I met in chat rooms long
| before I met them in person.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "and make yourself likeable"
|
| "To conflate it with DEI which is all about inclusion is
| pretty low."
|
| The need to make yourself likeable disadvantages groups that
| may not be similar to the hiring manager. It definitely
| provides bias against nuerodivergent people. So no, I'm not
| conflating DEI and networking. There is an easily
| identifiable link between the bias inherent in networking and
| it's impact on DEI.
| dash2 wrote:
| When you say "disability", what do you mean exactly? Is it a
| specific disease, or do you just mean "I find networking
| difficult, and it feels immoral"?
| giantg2 wrote:
| I'm nuerodivergent. Being likeable and similar to hiring
| managers is not something that most nuerodivergent people are
| able to do at the same level as most "normal" people.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Having a moral compass is not a disability, even though modern
| society likes to make it seem that way.
| giantg2 wrote:
| No, but some types of nuerodivergent people have an
| overwhelming sense of justice. That would be something
| related to a disability.
| moneywoes wrote:
| > About 80% of my colleagues were hired this way, while a few of
| us got in by luck.
|
| How do you define that?
| moneywoes wrote:
| When people discuss "networking" what do they mean?
|
| Posting on linkedin?
|
| Going to events?
| nelsonic wrote:
| Fellow introvert. Feel your pain.
|
| Connect:
|
| https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonic
|
| Happy to help.
| robotnikman wrote:
| I'm wondering the same thing, and as an introvert I have not meet
| many other people in my field.
|
| I'm no longer happy with my current position since they stopped
| remote work, and I've been looking for other opportunities as a
| java developer. I've applied to at least 30 positions so far and
| NONE have responded back....
| epolanski wrote:
| I know I'll sound elitist but introvert or not this doesn't make
| any difference, the most important part of your network are the
| people you've worked with already.
|
| If none of them is pinging you at times to see if you're
| available, you were probably an unremarkable professional or you
| have extraordinarily bad luck.
|
| It's not a bad thing to be average or mediocre, it's what most of
| us are, with a very small percentage of great professionals in a
| classical gaussian distribution.
|
| But people that impressed their former colleagues have queues of
| jobs lining for them. And that's where most of your focus should
| go if you want to have a career.
| dkeng1 wrote:
| When you started with "il sound elitist" I was getting ready to
| get angry. But as I read the rest of it - I wasnt sure what the
| elitist part of it is. I actually thought I was the elitist one
| when I shunned impressing others for a career (and oh boy has
| that cost me!) only to wonder after decades in a career where
| the F it all went by with nothing to show for. Really good
| advice btw. If you want a career sometimes you need to put your
| ego aside.
|
| Yes yes a career can mean different things for different folks.
| (specifically) in this context il take it to mean working in a
| stable job that pays enough and consistently to help you take
| care of things/people you care about comfortably.
| nanidin wrote:
| Change you self talk from "I'm not good at networking" to "I'm
| not currently good at networking", go read "How to Win Friends
| and Influence People", then implement a bit of it in your daily
| life and reap the rewards.
| punkspider wrote:
| Have you considered personal branding/networking via either
| social media / blogging?
|
| Making Peace with Personal Branding:
| https://www.fast.ai/posts/2017-12-18-personal-brand.html
|
| Your blog would detail some of your work experiences you wish to
| write about, such as tutorials, case studies, etc. I realize it's
| likely a longer game than classic networking.
| AlphaWeaver wrote:
| It's true that networking often plays a significant role in
| finding a new job. If you find it hard to build new
| relationships, that's OK, because that skill can be learned.
|
| Most introverts I know don't enjoy being around people all the
| time, but still build and maintain meaningful relationships with
| a small number of people close to them.
|
| If you do want to be better at this, but you're finding it
| difficult, have you considered therapy? A good therapist can help
| you feel more confident in building relationships, so you don't
| feel as drained by them, and give you a safe space to learn and
| practice those skills.
| pling87 wrote:
| Fellow introvert here. I don't have as many years in industry
| under my belt as you, but I have been through several job
| transitions and am enjoying the job I'm at right now.
|
| Every single one of my jobs came not from networking, but just
| cold applying to positions. If networking feels inauthentic to
| you, I would say just to forget about it and work at getting good
| at your craft. If you can demonstrate you have the skills and a
| company has a need for that skillset, they will hire and
| networking skills will be irrelevant.
|
| Also, if you're not having much success at applying for a type of
| position, it may be that the timing is just not right, e.g. a
| company has a superabundance of web developers, but what they are
| really in need of is embedded software developers. In a lot of
| cases, it's not about you, but about what the company's needs
| are.
|
| At one point in time, I applied to a company and failed to get
| in, but later on, I tried again, got the position, and it was a
| great opportunity. Was I that much better? Not really, just a
| timing thing.
|
| So don't give up and keep moving forward with practicing your
| skills and applying. The more you prepare and try, the better the
| odds of success.
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