[HN Gopher] Bitcoin windfall for Mt. Gox creditors after 10 year...
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Bitcoin windfall for Mt. Gox creditors after 10 year wait
Author : pseudolus
Score : 74 points
Date : 2024-06-29 14:34 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cnbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cnbc.com)
| elintknower wrote:
| Is there any way to identify if I'm a creditor with the email I
| registered with years ago?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://claims.mtgox.com/faq
| Lambdanaut wrote:
| It is far far too late to get paid. Several deadlines have
| passed.
| caesil wrote:
| Wrong. Look at Self-Approved Claims here:
| https://claims.mtgox.com/faq
| IanCal wrote:
| Doesn't that page say the deadline for those claims was in
| 2019 (not even to be submitted, but to contest it if you're
| refused)?
| timvdalen wrote:
| I received some letters in Japanese 10 years ago saying I was
| part of it, but I haven't really heard anything since
| yieldcrv wrote:
| its amazing that the American system is resolving FTX almost
| within 2 years, in comparison to the Japanese system
|
| says a lot about the two economies and their entire ethos
| k4rli wrote:
| Meaningless comparison, crypto has grown a lot since 2013
| yieldcrv wrote:
| The Japanese system hasn't and Mt Gox's bankruptcy trustee
| issues have almost nothing to do with the presence of crypto
| and more to do with the presence of grifters taking advantage
| of the idea that something to do with crypto makes it
| administratively complicated
|
| when it really makes it simpler
| SpicyLemonZest wrote:
| It should be noted that the American system also does not give
| FTX creditors this kind of windfall - under US bankruptcy law,
| their claims were effectively converted to dollars at the time
| of the bankruptcy, and they see no benefit from increased
| crypto prices since then. I'd assume this simplifies
| administration a lot, contributing to a faster resolution, but
| many FTX creditors are unhappy about it:
| https://www.wired.com/story/ftx-creditors-crypto-payout-reje...
| wmf wrote:
| It's weird that people who had dollars on FTX can get 118%
| back but crypto "has to" take a massive haircut.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Generally, you're not entitled to potential losses as a
| bankruptcy creditor.
|
| Those creditors were welcome to sue the entity in
| bankruptcy for their potential losses, but that would
| involve demonstrating they'd have had the wherewithal to
| hold to the point of the gains they're claiming.
|
| I do think that FTX creditors should not have profited out
| of the bankruptcy proceedings, either.
| Lerc wrote:
| This is what initially happened with MTGox as well. The
| subsequent increase in value complicating things is a large
| part of why the MTGox resolution has taken so long. The
| original plan to reimburse the yen value of claims at the
| time of collapse was no longer a fair solution. The payout
| due now was proposed and voted on by the claimants. The
| process has been slow but very methodical, at each stage
| there were long periods where they gave claimants time to
| respond.
|
| I, for one, would not like to be in charge of pressing the
| button that distributes several billions of dollars to
| thousands of different people without it fucking up. If
| someone is doing that this July you would hope that they have
| dotted all their Is and crossed all their Ts.
| DennisP wrote:
| Part of the problem was the lawsuit from CoinLab, which took
| years to resolve. There wasn't anything like that with FTX.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| Part of it.
| Lambdanaut wrote:
| Granted, individuals will only receive ~15% of their original
| claim, the increase in value over time will make it worth it for
| many.
| panarky wrote:
| People lose their shirts in crypto because they lose it, trade
| it, and sell too soon.
|
| The only proven way to make a killing in crypto is to be
| physically prevented from losing it, trading it, or selling it
| for ten years.
| 9front wrote:
| The fear of losing is greater than the desire to win! So
| people trade or sell before a ten years timeframe.
| brianwawok wrote:
| This only reads that way looking back over a raising value.
| Look at a stock that goes to 0 and call the people that
| sold early fearful of losing,
| Detrytus wrote:
| When the stock/crypto goes up 100% people will gladly
| take their profits and go on with their lives, instead of
| waiting for even bigger profits.
|
| When the stocks starts its fall towards 0 people will do
| incredible mental gymnastics, clinging to any shred of
| hope that things will turn around and they will revert
| their losses, so it takes them much more time to get out
| of the bad investment.
| ta988 wrote:
| And when crypto goes to 0?
| bearjaws wrote:
| They only lose their shirts because its speculative
| gambling... They are scared the same way the person betting
| on red is.
| bboygravity wrote:
| You're describing anybody investing in anything (except
| those who cheat).
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| I like to distinguish investing from speculating.
| Investing is putting money into a business which actually
| makes money. Speculating is buying something because you
| think the price will go up.
| cwalv wrote:
| If the price does go up, did it "actually make money"?
| pessimizer wrote:
| Sounds like a big crash is coming as people dump that stuff.
| guywithahat wrote:
| This isn't the first time it happened. When MtGox went insolvent,
| the price of bitcoin tanked and they had enough cash on hand to
| replace everyone's funds, but the lawyers said no because there
| wasn't enough fees.
|
| This whole thing should have been resolved years ago, I still get
| bankruptcy emails and I feel bad for the poor soul who has to
| waste his whole career fighting over who gets the remaining
| sliver of money instead of doing something productive.
| throwup238 wrote:
| _> I feel bad for the poor soul who has to waste his whole
| career fighting over who gets the remaining sliver of money
| instead of doing something productive._
|
| _Returning_ money is the most productive thing a lawyer can
| do.
| otoburb wrote:
| >> _When MtGox went insolvent, the price of bitcoin tanked and
| they had enough cash on hand to replace everyone's funds, but
| the lawyers said no because there wasn't enough fees._
|
| Which lawyers are you referring to that said "no because there
| weren't enough fees"? Seems contradictory because lawyers at
| the time in 2014 had no idea that the value of the remaining
| digital assets would rise.
| jrflowers wrote:
| I'm going to guess it might've been lawyers that are
| presently happy to have been able to bill hours for this for
| the past decade
| pmarreck wrote:
| Notoriously, the site developer wrote his own crypto code... in
| PHP... which you should never do, regardless, but especially in
| PHP (I recall some numerical limitation having to do with bit
| rotation and automatically-signed numbers at the time)
| meowface wrote:
| I hate PHP, but this is not a good comment.
| FactKnower69 wrote:
| Do you have any professional experience using PHP? I have
| never in my life used another web development platform that
| requires me to install 3rd party patches like Suhosin to get
| to a baseline level of security
| tinco wrote:
| Right, but he didn't get hacked because of that, he got hacked
| because he's the sort of person who would make such a choice.
| He is just a bad developer and a bad person to have run a bank
| or anything significant really.
| maipen wrote:
| 9 billion dollares worth of BTC.
|
| It's honestly not that impactful as people may think.
|
| Note that BTC's last 24h volume was $15Billion (some of it is
| fake, but it's still alot)
|
| The price reaction to this news proves it.
| Detrytus wrote:
| This suggests that >90% of BTC trading volume is fake: https://
| www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15446....
|
| But the study is from 2021, maybe introduction of Bitcoin ETFs
| made things better.
| o_____________o wrote:
| I wonder if Bitforex, which was either taken offline as an exit
| scam or government intervention, is going to follow a similar
| path
| dragoncrab wrote:
| The background of the multiple hacks that led to the demise of
| Mt. Gox got a nice coverage on Darknet Diaries in 2017:
| https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/9/
| m3kw9 wrote:
| About the only way to hold bitcoin without selling is forced to
| qingcharles wrote:
| Ilya's little $5Bn stash is also going to cause issues now his
| case is over and I assume it is all forfeited by the US govt:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Bitfinex_hack
| Dwedit wrote:
| Mt. Gox is short for "Magic The Gathering Online Exchange", and
| the site's focus was on virtual trading of cards for Magic Online
| rather than cryptocurrency.
| grondilu wrote:
| They took 20 bitcoins out of me, but I never bothered to fill the
| paperwork. Oh, well.
| teractiveodular wrote:
| Payouts still have not _actually_ started. It is long been
| theorized that BTC prices will crash when they do, since the
| market will be flooded with people trying to finally realize
| their USD gains.
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(page generated 2024-06-29 23:01 UTC)