[HN Gopher] The 'pay phone bandit' who baffled the FBI in the '80s
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The 'pay phone bandit' who baffled the FBI in the '80s
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 149 points
       Date   : 2024-06-29 03:19 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.mentalfloss.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.mentalfloss.com)
        
       | jonhohle wrote:
       | Now I want to see how long it takes Lock Picking Lawyer. Someone
       | mail him a pay phone with a bottle of booze in the coin box!
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | About two minutes.[1]
         | 
         | It's a disk detainer lock, which requires specialized tools,
         | and it unlocks counterclockwise, which is unusual.
         | 
         | The tool: [2]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQxVG-Munqw
         | 
         | [2] https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/products/sparrows-disc-
         | pic...
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Correction: that's the lock on the GTE clone of the Western
           | Electric payphone. The actual Western Electric version used
           | an unusual lever lock. The later variant, the 30C, is claimed
           | to have never been picked.
           | 
           | That's a really good lock design. It's simple, robust, and
           | immune to standard picking techniques.
           | 
           | But there is a vulnerability. The blocking wedge, which is
           | only supposed to move along one axis, has some mechanical
           | slop. See [2]. So it's possible to get some feedback on which
           | levers are blocking bolt movement. It's still a huge pain to
           | pick.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.mattblaze.org/photos/misc/wecolock/
           | 
           | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLhCvUgDYQ
        
       | Algemarin wrote:
       | Here's the America's Most Wanted segment about the guy, James
       | Clark, from 1988:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/e56gA8NBXuQ?t=1204
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | The details about this guy at the end were hilarious.
         | Apparently he always stays at Motel 6 and eats at 7-11. Totally
         | living it up on Ma Bell's dime, I see!
        
           | thedrexster wrote:
           | Ma Bell's _quarters_, you mean. :)
        
             | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
             | Only for the kids. Where do you think "dropping a dime on
             | someone" came from?
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | I vaguely recall visiting Boston c1990 and discovering
               | pay phone calls there were still 10C/, while they had
               | been 25C/ in Indiana as long as I could remember. I'd be
               | curious when and where the last ten-cent phone call was
               | made.
        
         | n1b0m wrote:
         | Shame about the sound quality
        
       | Scoundreller wrote:
       | > Though it's hard to imagine today, there was once a time when
       | making a telephone call meant going home, asking to use someone's
       | phone, or plunking a quarter into a freestanding pay phone
       | 
       | Pfffft, what about the classic: "You have a collect call from
       | PICKMEUPATBILL'S" ?
        
         | Algemarin wrote:
         | ah yes, passed around countless txtfilez in the '90s...
         | 
         | http://cd.textfiles.com/hackersencyc/PHREAK/GENERAL/CALLATT....
         | http://cd.textfiles.com/hackersencyc/PHREAK/GENERAL/CCF.TXT
        
         | lagniappe wrote:
         | Can't forget about his uncle Bobwehadababy Itsaboy
        
           | pimlottc wrote:
           | The classic Geico commmercial:
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/9JxhTnWrKYs?si=imqYkQjwxpATH1VH
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Was expecting more _phreaking_ from this story
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | I don't think you could get cash from a payphone by phreaking,
         | back in the day. At most you could get back the coins you put
         | in. After each call, the coins dropped into the lock box.
         | Phreaking was more about sending tones to the CO.
        
           | ChrisArchitect wrote:
           | of course not, phreaking/boxing etc was about avoiding the
           | cash altogether! Just a note that seeing a title about pay
           | phone antics I expected/hoped for more of a hacking angle.
           | Good throwback story nonetheless!
        
       | Mountain_Skies wrote:
       | Sometime in the 80s we happened across a payphone that was
       | spitting out quarters from the change return, partially jamming
       | the return door in the process. Until then I always assumed that
       | change was held in some kind of side compartment so the same
       | coins inserted could be returned but either someone went crazy
       | jamming it up with quarters earlier or there was a way for the
       | payphone to make change.
       | 
       | Wonder if the guy ever thought about running a video arcade or
       | laundromat. It would have been a great way to cover up his source
       | of so many quarters and convert some of them into paper currency
       | in the process.
        
         | edgineer wrote:
         | Maybe someone put gum/something to block return coins. Then as
         | people used the machine, the return coins built up. Usually the
         | thief would return days later and remove the gum, along with
         | the coins behind it.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | Based on what others have said about how the coin mechanism
           | works, this seems like the most likely explanation. Now it
           | has me wondering if it was my brother who set it up. The
           | payphone was outside a bar in an area I'd never been to
           | before and I can't remember why we ended up there that day.
           | Perhaps he was jamming up phones and then returning later to
           | collect to proceeds. He was always getting into such small
           | time schemes before he got mostly straightened out in the
           | military.
        
         | jim_lawless wrote:
         | I'd read a story a while back about a phone company employee
         | who serviced payphones. He would periodically shut off power to
         | payphones on his route, causing them to trap whatever coins the
         | callers would insert. He'd return at a later time, turning the
         | power back on. The coin return would then empty and he'd get
         | the coins.
        
           | akira2501 wrote:
           | > He would periodically shut off power to payphones on his
           | route
           | 
           | Pay phones do not require an external source of power to
           | operate the line or the internal phone mechanisms.
           | 
           | > causing them to trap whatever coins the callers would
           | insert
           | 
           | It's been a while, but my recollection is that if the coin
           | relay loses power it should return the coins to the user
           | immediately. This is why the Green Box and shorting diodes
           | would work.
           | 
           | > He'd return at a later time, turning the power back on. The
           | coin return would then empty and he'd get the coins.
           | 
           | It's interesting how people will try to turn stories of petty
           | theft into clever achievements.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | > that change was held in some kind of side compartment so the
         | same coins inserted could be returned
         | 
         | That's exactly how it works.
         | 
         | > or there was a way for the payphone to make change.
         | 
         | It was controlled by a relay. If the CO pulled the relay to
         | bill the call, the coins would divert into storage, otherwise
         | the coins would fall into the return. If the signal was weak or
         | was intentionally blocked then the coins would always fall into
         | the return. It's possible that users just didn't notice the
         | coins falling into the wrong slot.
         | 
         | See the History section here:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_box_(phreaking)
        
       | johnnyApplePRNG wrote:
       | >By one estimate, he hit phones in 30 of them,
       | 
       | Wouldn't they know exactly how many states he did this in since
       | he was the only one that knew how to do it?
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | Probably not all instances of non-violent coin (and coin box)
         | theft were recorded or assigned to him. Some instances could
         | have been theft by employees or the coin box was inadverdently
         | not returned, or needed replacement but a replacement wasn't
         | available.
         | 
         | Post AT&T breakup means the phone companies were less
         | centralized and organized, presumably, than if this had
         | happened in the 1970s.
        
       | wintermutestwin wrote:
       | On a related note, I remember in the 80s, coin fed parking meters
       | in Berkeley were systematically cut off. I never knew if it was
       | simple thievery, or some anarchy protest.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | It was Cool Hand Luke
        
       | liendolucas wrote:
       | I love these stories to be shared here on HN. There was one also
       | submitted some time ago about a cyclist who wouldn't make it into
       | the olympics (or something like that) and started to rob banks
       | and used his cyclist skills to escape. If I recalled correctly
       | this was in the 80' or 90' and he used to give away the stolen
       | money. Shame I don't have link.
        
         | orzig wrote:
         | One of the best uses of Perplexity.ai! Pasted your text
         | 
         | https://www.bicycling.com/news/a26081001/cyclist-turned-bank...
        
           | pimlottc wrote:
           | You can just Google for "cyclist who robbed banks", AI isn't
           | really necessary for this.
        
             | redeux wrote:
             | You can just use Gopher, you don't need Google for this.
             | 
             | I'm being flippant, obviously but my point is that every
             | now and then a new technology comes along that supplants
             | and older one because it offers a meaningful improvement
             | over the last. AI search vs traditional web search is
             | definitely one of those.
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | It's just as easy or easier to google "cyclist who robbed
               | banks."
        
               | redeux wrote:
               | You're not thinking through the whole experience. The
               | search itself is just as easy, sure. You can type the
               | same query into both systems. The difference is in the
               | results. Traditional web search will then return a set of
               | links which may or may not answer you query, it's up you
               | you to parse them and figure out if they have the content
               | you need or if you need to rephrase your query and try
               | again. AI on the other hand will parse the results for
               | you and return the answer to your prompt directly. That's
               | a meaningful improvement.
        
               | th0ma5 wrote:
               | If it is not 100% based in reality then no, it isn't.
        
               | akira2501 wrote:
               | > AI on the other hand will parse the results for you and
               | return the answer to your prompt directly.
               | 
               | Yep! And that's going to save you _one whole step_ when
               | you're posting meaningless follow ups in forums filled
               | with technical users who would have had no problem
               | getting the information themselves.
               | 
               | > That's a meaningful improvement.
               | 
               | It's a marginal improvement to the least meaningful
               | activity that occurs on a daily basis. So, it's totally
               | worth the trillions that have been invested in it. :|
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | Even if that's true, the example definitely isn't proof
               | of that given that the old technology seems to handle the
               | problem just fine.
        
               | revscat wrote:
               | If they each give the correct answer in the same number
               | of steps then there's no reason to prefer one over the
               | other.
        
               | KMag wrote:
               | My multiple experiences with ChatGPT hallucination, even
               | at minimum temperature, leaves me preferring a web search
               | answer. Just last week, jq hallucinated three different
               | jq syntaxes that failed to parse.
               | 
               | That being said, I had been using web search for several
               | years looking for the Get Smart episode I had seen as a
               | kid in the 1980s where the enemy agent explains that he
               | can't give up his suicide ring because "That's how it
               | works, if I take it off, my wife will kill me." Google
               | Bard found the episode on the first try.
               | 
               | So, I tend to fall back to LLMs only when search engines
               | fail me.
        
               | hn_version_0023 wrote:
               | _Mental inertia_ is the phrase I use for preferring the
               | one you learned first
        
           | mrbluecoat wrote:
           | Hilarious career path: social work > Catholic priesthood >
           | underwater welding > robbing banks
        
           | aaronharnly wrote:
           | That story seems to be a brief summary, which points to a
           | fuller article here: https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-
           | Magazine/February-2019/Bi...
        
           | liendolucas wrote:
           | Found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29037860
           | (excellent article).
        
       | VariableStar wrote:
       | Not condoning his actions, but "a thinker and doer" is certainly
       | a fitting eulogy, and not a bad one to have in ones grave.
        
       | ProjectArcturis wrote:
       | Seems like the hardest part would be getting rid of all the
       | coins. I'm not surprised he got caught, given two appearances on
       | America's Most Wanted, and his tendency to pay for hotel rooms
       | with rolls of quarters.
       | 
       | As another comment noted, perhaps he should have opened a
       | laundromat or video arcade to launder the stolen money.
        
         | firesteelrain wrote:
         | Should have taken them to a bank, converted to cash and then
         | done what you said.
        
       | alrighty wrote:
       | I wonder why the method was to take the box rather than replacing
       | it after emptying it. Would that have made the crime harder to
       | detect?
        
         | spdif899 wrote:
         | Yeah it seems like the same heist but leaving a random handful
         | of coins behind in the box would have been much more difficult
         | to detect
        
       | Pixelbrick wrote:
       | Inspiration for Bruce Sterling's short 'Jim & Irene!'
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-06-29 23:01 UTC)