[HN Gopher] Spudguns: Potato Cannon Guide
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Spudguns: Potato Cannon Guide
        
       Author : cenazoic
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2024-06-26 11:59 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.spudguns.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.spudguns.org)
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | These are so fun and easy to get started, but quite challenging
       | to tune and make optimal. The differences between "i just glued a
       | tube together and hair sprayed it a bunch" and having optimal
       | chamber/barrel ratios with a proper air/fuel mix are incredible
       | to see!
        
       | spacecadet wrote:
       | Made many spud guns as a kid. Spud mortars. It all ended when we
       | fired a rotten crab apple, missed our target, but struck the door
       | of a passing car. The drive chased us through the woods of our
       | property for a while before giving up. Now my buddy works in
       | defense lol.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Now that brings back memories. As a kid, my friends and I knew
         | the woods/creek like the back of our hands, and there were many
         | instances of losing a tail that way. The thing that I found the
         | most interesting was civilian tails seemed much more engaged
         | than the boys in blue ever did. Not sure what the civilian
         | rationale was, but I know the boys in blue didn't want to deal
         | with that much paper work for stupid teenage pranks.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | not to avocate violence,but when i was a kid minors were
           | basically immune to prosecution, it was also well known that
           | when a kid got caught doing a bart simpson they would get the
           | hell thrashed out of them until they escaped.
           | 
           | ideally that was supposed to quench the problem right there.
           | 
           | then again those were the days of a burning bagfull of [X],
           | on the front steps type of pranks.
        
         | dgemm wrote:
         | I feel like we would have been friends in high school
        
       | rolph wrote:
       | PSI rating on your spudgun, shouldnot be overlooked
       | 
       | e.g. https://www.klkntv.com/one-man-injured-after-potato-gun-
       | expl... [2017]
       | 
       | [ALSO] dont exceed rated pressure, and know that constant
       | pressure is different than repeated shocks
       | 
       | https://www.engineersedge.com/fluid_flow/steel-pipe-pressure...
       | 
       | https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-cpvc-pipes-pressures-...
        
         | indoordin0saur wrote:
         | Has anyone tried supplementing the hairspray with the sort of
         | canned oxygen you can find at ski resorts?
        
           | temp0826 wrote:
           | Not a traditional spud gun, but my father (who has been a
           | welder for his whole life) built a couple differently sized
           | cannons out of aluminum (one fired wine corks and the other
           | was about tennis ball-sized). We used acetylene gas. Honestly
           | kind of terrifying and incredibly dangerous, not recommended.
           | They only come out on independence day.
        
             | gorgoiler wrote:
             | We built one using acetylene as the source gas generated
             | from calcium carbide and water, ignited by a spark gap from
             | an electric fence. The combustion chamber was a 40 gallon
             | oil drum and the barrel was a 20' scaffold pole.
             | 
             | Round 1 worked a treat, firing a champagne cork sized
             | wooden baton far away into the distance.
             | 
             | Round 2 was a disaster. Calcium carbide needs water to
             | react into acetylene. Our method involved putting a few
             | pints of water into the oil drum (on its side), then a few
             | rocks of calcium carbide, then the igniter, and finally the
             | scaffold pole resting under it's own weight in the small,
             | off centre oil drum aperture.
             | 
             | On this second round the end of the pole was accidentally
             | submerged in the puddle and the wooden baton got jammed.
             | This meant the explosion forced water up the gun barrel --
             | a pole just resting there in the mouth of the oil drum --
             | launching the entire pole down the garden. It must have
             | gone a good 50 feet or so. This is a steel javelin weighing
             | a good 30lbs.
             | 
             | Round 3 ruptured the oil drum. It sounded like a bomb going
             | off.
        
           | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
           | Best my pals and I ever did was engine starter fluid and like
           | 40PSI of air with a duct tape diaphragm to hold the air in.
           | We shot old D batteries wrapped in duct tape out of it. Shot
           | it at a stop sign once and it made a perfect hole with sign
           | peeled back like shooting BB guns at a coke can. The whole
           | thing was stupidly dangerous.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I was surprised to see hairspray as the recommended fuel,
           | since that what we used growing up 30 years ago, with no
           | particular engineering expertise. I assumed there would be
           | more advanced options now (if for no other reason, because
           | hairspray smells!)
        
             | tlavoie wrote:
             | I find the 99% isopropyl alcohol from the pharmacy works
             | well, and it's cheap too. Also, I'd get funny looks buying
             | hairspray, when I have very little hair.
        
             | petee wrote:
             | Aren't many hairsprays just propane? I think its just a
             | convenient option, otherwise you need a tank and/or a hose
             | of something else
        
           | annoyingnoob wrote:
           | I always used starting fluid
           | 
           | https://www.petes-tools.com/what-is-starter-fluid/
        
           | petee wrote:
           | Friends and I used MAPP gas mixed with oxygen...had a pretty
           | good kick but you were really just rolling the dice on the
           | ratio
        
             | no_way_1209567 wrote:
             | The way to do this with oxy-fuel is to light the torch,
             | adjust to a neutral flame, then extinguish the flame. The
             | resulting gas coming out of the torch should be pretty
             | close to stoichometric, and should be treated with extreme
             | care.
        
         | ben1040 wrote:
         | 30 years ago I was a teenager a friend of mine had a giant plot
         | of empty land in his family, and so we'd go out there and do
         | stupid teenager things things like playing with fireworks and
         | building and shooting potato cannons.
         | 
         | We'd discovered dry ice bombs alongside internet plans for
         | potato cannons, and in our infinite wisdom we tried to build a
         | dry ice bomb powered potato cannon. In our mind the sudden
         | increase of air pressure would've sent the payload going
         | ridiculously far.
         | 
         | Thankfully when we went to use it the first time, we were smart
         | enough to run as far as we could before it went off. It was far
         | far more pressure than the pipe could handle and it sent little
         | bits of PVC shrapnel flying everywhere.
        
       | blastro wrote:
       | My best friend in grade school was a bit of a deviant and we
       | definitely experimented with these things. Very powerful!
        
       | skrbjc wrote:
       | I remember the first time we fired one of these. It was dusk and
       | my brothers and I had rigged a remote igniter, and I was elected
       | to hold the cannon itself. We loaded it up, sprayed hairspray in
       | and my brother pushed the igniter.
       | 
       | None of us had any idea of how powerful one of these was! The
       | flame that came out the front was over a foot long. We thought
       | maybe the potato would reach the back fence of our yard, but it
       | was launched into oblivion. Luckily our house backed up onto a
       | nature preserve, so at least no-one had a surprise potato land on
       | them.
       | 
       | We had much fun that summer iterating on designs and trying every
       | type of various projectile we could find.
        
         | lagniappe wrote:
         | You probably started a small field of potatoes if it stayed
         | mostly intact!
        
         | mavamaarten wrote:
         | I remember shooting a potato into a wall, hoping to laugh at
         | the potato becoming mush. There was no mush. Only potato dust.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | you have to freeze the potato for more "lolz"
        
             | RicoElectrico wrote:
             | If you freeze it, it won't cut to the diameter of the
             | barrel.
        
               | rolph wrote:
               | you make a number of spud pellets, you freeze them after
        
               | BizarroLand wrote:
               | I like how when someone offered an idea that turns a
               | mildly dangerous toy into a decidedly lethal weapon,
               | rather than dissuade others of the terrible notion we
               | went into problem solving mode to increase reliability,
               | quality, and to minimize the potential hassles inherent
               | with the lethal solution.
        
               | katbyte wrote:
               | Use paper towel as wadding
        
           | ahartmetz wrote:
           | Same with an apple, only a wet patch on that steel door.
           | Bouncing potatoes off the surface of a lake was fun, too.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | You get better range if you swap out the hairspray for black
         | power, and the barrel for a metal pipe.
        
       | lowdest wrote:
       | The links on the 404 page bought me to some very nostalgic
       | feeling pages. Very late-90s aesthetic. An MP3 directory index. A
       | webcam with a frame that hasn't refreshed since 2009. I miss the
       | old internet.
        
       | jasonpeacock wrote:
       | > Took a bit of doing to code the design by hand in Notepad with
       | all the nested tables originally, however with Dreamweaver it's
       | only taken a few hours, not weeks.
       | 
       | So many memories...
        
       | Certified wrote:
       | I wish Supah Valves [1] were still available so I could recommend
       | them. They use a smaller sprinkler valve as a pilot to move a
       | much larger piston based valve _very_ quickly. That lets a lot
       | more of your reservoir pressure get to the barrel before your
       | projectile has shot out the end. The result? More range. More
       | grins.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.spudtech.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_i...
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | This is going to be the last week someone in this thread has all
       | ten of their fingers, working ears, or both.
        
         | kedarkhand wrote:
         | You can bet it is going to be me!
        
       | jetrink wrote:
       | I was doing ecological work in a lake when we came under spudgun
       | fire. Someone (kids?) began slowly firing from a distant treeline
       | on the side of one of the hills that surrounded the lake. I knew
       | the distinctive thump, so I was looking out for the first splash,
       | which ended up being much closer than I expected it to be! I had
       | assumed they would be aiming somewhere else. I informed my
       | shipmates that we were under attack and we rowed to shore as fast
       | as possible. They got in about three or four shots, but we
       | escaped injury and no one was ever caught.
        
         | umvi wrote:
         | I wonder if most of the dangerous levels of kinetic energy in
         | the potato would have bled off from air resistance though by
         | the time it reached your ship. Sort of like how you can shoot a
         | shotgun at animals that are way off in the distance without the
         | BBs being able to penetrate skin because they've bled off too
         | much energy to air resistance.
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | A potato likely has a pretty good ballistic co-efficient due
           | to its mass to surface area ratio. It would be even better if
           | it was denser of course, but if a nice green one, it's still
           | pretty dense.
           | 
           | That's why artillery can hit 20-30 miles away even though
           | muzzle velocities are roughly the same as a rifle, which
           | would be lucky to go a couple miles even if fired at the same
           | angle.
        
       | cantSpellSober wrote:
       | >> _sees link to slashdot in the header_
       | 
       | Can we add (2008) to the title please?
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | The site is old-school, but don't "(year)" markings only go on
         | articles that were published on a particular date, as opposed
         | to websites that are modified over time?
        
           | cantSpellSober wrote:
           | I don't see any updates in the archive since then
        
       | epiccoleman wrote:
       | William Gurstelle's Backyard Ballistics and The Art of the
       | Catapult were two extremely influential books in my development
       | as a young engineering minded person. Countless hours of fun were
       | had experimenting with spud guns of varying designs.
        
       | Ductapemaster wrote:
       | Ahh good memories. Over the summer in college, I made a pretty
       | advanced propane-powered one with an integral mixing fan for the
       | chamber and an cheap taser for electronic ignition. Fired every
       | time. Had great fun with my roommates shooting them out into the
       | ocean off our balcony (UCSB -- how lucky we were!).
       | 
       | Sadly it was confiscated by the police shortly after. They drove
       | by me loading it into my car at night. The 8ft barrel was fairly
       | obvious...
        
       | Qworg wrote:
       | If this is of interest, be sure to check out
       | https://www.spudfiles.com/ - multiple types and versions of
       | cannons, including very clever single inlet piston style ones
       | that shoot incredibly far. Here's an example:
       | https://nighthawkinlight.wonderhowto.com/how-to/make-powerfu...
        
       | ubj wrote:
       | Potato cannons first inspired my love of physics. In high school
       | I was amazed when I discovered that I could fire one vertically,
       | time how long it took for the potato to hit the ground, and then
       | mathematically reconstruct both the potato's exit velocity and
       | the maximum height it reached. It felt like magic.
       | 
       | I ended up performing a science fair project on the effect of the
       | potato cannon barrel length on the potato's max speed and height.
       | (My experiments also led to a short encounter with the police,
       | but that's a different story.)
        
       | dtx1 wrote:
       | Fun Fact: There are Countries where Spudguns are illegal and
       | treated like a weapons charge. Germany being one of them.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | Fellow German here, I think this actually makes sense.
         | 
         | Primarily, unlike the US we just lack the void space. Even if
         | you're in a "rural" area you'll still annoy dozens of people
         | firing a spud gun with compressed air, and one fired with
         | explosives will be thought of as someone firing guns - which is
         | damn rare to hear, only during hunting season in the forests.
         | The same argument also holds valid for a number of other things
         | common in the US but not in Germany like keeping entire
         | residential properties filled with cars in various states of
         | (dis)repair, firing guns in general, producing nuclear waste,
         | flying experimental planes, starting planes and choppers from
         | anywhere else than a licensed airstrip, ...
        
           | jpt4 wrote:
           | It makes no objective sense at all, and merely reflects
           | hypersensitive German policy regarding civilian ownership of
           | anything resembling the means of force application.
        
       | GaryNumanVevo wrote:
       | Here are some good tips for a spud gun: - Schedule 80 PVC where
       | possible - Use anti-static spray instead of hair spray, it's
       | cheaper and doesn't leave a tacky combustion chamber - Put a
       | small PC fan into the combustion chamber to mix the fuel and air,
       | this will ensure you get a fuller combustion.
       | 
       | If you're an adult, you can make one out of metal pipe and use an
       | oxy acetylene torch to fuel it. Perfect stoichometric ratio, very
       | very energetic!
        
       | rolph wrote:
       | IANAL :
       | 
       | Potato cannon legality
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_cannon_legality
       | 
       | in US: bare minimum it is a dangerous device as in pelletgun or
       | archery equipment.
       | 
       | how/why its used, as well as ballistic features may cross a
       | threshold.
       | 
       | if you construct a firearm, you must not have legal restrictions
       | on ownership.
       | 
       | if the projectile of a firearm,is an actual .50calibre or
       | greater,that is a destructive device and you must be rigorously
       | vetted to construct or own that
        
         | msandford wrote:
         | I just read the US section and it seems to contradict what you
         | just stated above. If you use incendiary tennis balls it
         | qualifies as a "destructive device" but then it's not really a
         | potato cannon anymore.
         | 
         | It also says if you use compressed air that completely
         | disqualifies it from "destructive device" potential
         | classification in the eyes of the law.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | take note that dangerous device, and destructive device are
           | different classifications.
           | 
           | "it must be muzzle loaded, not rifled, and not use any
           | projectile which is intended to be used as a weapon."
           | 
           | compressed gas propulsion is not a firearm, unless it [gas]
           | is produced by combustion or explosion of a chemical [incl.
           | propane. ]
           | 
           | magazine or breech loading, rifled barrel, a cartridge
           | holding projectile, and charge as part of design will seal
           | the deal for definition as firearm.
        
         | 01100011 wrote:
         | A friend of mine who is a former JPL mech engineer was working
         | on an amazing, high pressure golf ball cannon until his city
         | issued him a citation for his smaller gun. That pretty much
         | ended his foray into pneumatic weapons. Shame, because his gun
         | looked amazing. He even custom built a road case to store it
         | all. Guy is on the spectrum and has ADHD which has resulted in
         | some amazing, but completely over-engineered, work over the
         | years.
         | 
         | He engineered his own gluelam support beams in his garage which
         | could lift a car. He rewired his house using all stranded wire,
         | bus bars and crimp connectors and it was all mil-spec.
        
         | eschneider wrote:
         | In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, "Everything's legal if you
         | don't get caught."
        
       | ugh123 wrote:
       | Can parts of these be 3d printed?
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | Maybe external mounting brackets? Say for the ignition system
         | or maybe a sight of some kind? I wouldn't trust a 3D print for
         | any of the high pressure stuff but I don't actually know if
         | that's feasible. I'd love to find out I'm wrong.
        
         | wepple wrote:
         | Not strong enough
        
         | annoyingnoob wrote:
         | If you like shrapnel.
        
       | xivzgrev wrote:
       | wow this is a fancy one. the one friends & I built in high school
       | was more simple
       | 
       | 1) a narrow tube to put potato in 2) a larger tube for firing
       | chamber with a screw cap 3) a sealed hole cut into firing chamber
       | for a lighter
       | 
       | put potato in one end, unscrew the cap, spray hairspray liberally
       | inside, screw cap back on, aim, and fire
        
       | wepple wrote:
       | I built the fauxtato a while back; a small capsule to simulate a
       | potato but with a 32g accelerometer (8g is wildly insufficient)
       | and WiFi to be able to log data and make basic analyses about
       | different cannon & fuel usage.
       | 
       | Really interested run some tests based on things in this thread,
       | like different propellants.
        
         | wepple wrote:
         | Correction: it was a ADXL375 200g sensor
        
           | nehal3m wrote:
           | That is amazing. Can you tell us if the potato referred to in
           | this comment [0] could have done serious damage?
           | 
           | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40798939#40812811
        
             | wepple wrote:
             | That's really interesting, I haven't spent much time
             | looking at the data from the landing impact.
             | 
             | I'm also not confident in my skills to translate G-forces
             | into velocities or such. I guess it depends largely on what
             | type of surface it lands on?
             | 
             | You've definitely got me thinking now. There's a bunch of
             | ways I could roughly come up with a model for this.
        
       | flyinghamster wrote:
       | A buddy of mine had a compressed-air spud gun that he made from
       | an air compressor tank, a ball valve, and a length of 3" copper
       | pipe. That thing could put dents in a 1/4" thick scrap steel
       | plate.
        
       | jprd wrote:
       | I have NEVER EVER used one of these to fire across a US
       | Interstate at night (successfully).
       | 
       | Mind your PSI and test your ballistics prior to using it for
       | more, artful, purposes.
        
       | rehevkor5 wrote:
       | Relevant: this video with some info about dangers/safety
       | especially related to non-pressure-rated PVC:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqstP9ics2A
        
       | reducesuffering wrote:
       | Silicon Valley, the show, is a documentary.
       | https://youtu.be/Q1QPXyebhiY?si=5YWYlCuI2aJ2fu-l&t=474
        
       | gnarcoregrizz wrote:
       | I made few of these when I was a kid. My piece de resistance was
       | a 10' 'coaxial piston launcher'. It scared the bejeezus out of
       | most people... I usually shot ice slugs, which would throw a hole
       | in a piece of plywood at 50 psi.
       | 
       | A golf ball with a chipped off shell fits perfectly in a 2" PVC
       | barrel. The problem with chipping off the shell (along with an
       | unrifled barrel) is that it makes it like a knuckleball - you
       | have no idea where it's going to go. They would curve violently
       | in any direction. One of the few times I shot one of these, it
       | curved directly upwards, and I'm guessing landed a half a mile or
       | so away. Hopefully it didn't hit anyone or anything. That was the
       | last time I shot it.
        
       | eigenvalue wrote:
       | I used to think these were really cool and harmless fun as a
       | teenager. Then at college, some guys I knew made one (and they
       | weren't dumb at all, pretty competent people). They were firing
       | it near where people were sitting on the lawn and it suddenly
       | shattered, sending sharp jagged pieces of PVC flying. One of the
       | pieces hit a girl sitting nearby and gave her a nasty cut near
       | her eye. Her face was covered in blood and it was totally
       | horrific for her and everyone else. It made me realize that the
       | fun of the activity was just significantly outweighed by the
       | possible safety downside. It could have been so much worse, too--
       | she could have been blinded instead of just gotten a nasty scar
       | on her face.
        
         | spike021 wrote:
         | I think the key is using them in an open space away from people
         | and where you can have some measure of safety. My friends would
         | use theirs in an uninhabited valley off a ridge.
        
           | eigenvalue wrote:
           | Yes but even then the person firing it is at risk. At a
           | minimum you should use serious eye and face protection.
        
         | petee wrote:
         | With a good sharp chunk you can potentially nick someones
         | artery.
         | 
         | We had a couple incidents and nobody got really hurt, but later
         | I came to the same feeling of 'fun, but no thanks'
        
         | ggreer wrote:
         | These sorts of failures are usually caused by people
         | constructing the potato cannon out of thinner schedule 40 PVC
         | (usually colored white). If you use schedule 80 PVC (which
         | tends to be dark gray) or ABS (which deforms instead of
         | shattering), the risk is negligible.
         | 
         | This is also why I prefer pneumatic cannons to combustion.
         | Since there's not a quick spike in pressure from a combustion
         | reaction, the maximum pressure that needs to be contained is
         | lower (and you can measure it with a gauge as you're pumping
         | the air tank up). Also if you make the air tank big enough, the
         | pressure behind the projectile stays high for longer, so you
         | tend to get higher velocities.
         | 
         | When I was in high school I made a potato cannon, played around
         | with it in the woods with some friends, and _then_ told my
         | parents about it. My mom wasn 't too happy, but my dad took it
         | as a challenge. He built an even more powerful pneumatic
         | version with a tripod, sights, and a solenoid trigger
         | mechanism. The whole family loved it. I used some extra PVC
         | pipe to make molds for cement slugs. With a little paper
         | wadding to get a good seal, they'd go fast enough to embed
         | themselves a couple feet into the side of a hill. It was
         | spectacular.
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | As I kid we had die cast spud guns that had a barrel width of
         | maybe half a centimeter - pretty harmless.
         | 
         | But today of course it would be a problem cause its guns and a
         | problem because its a waste of food.
        
       | m-i-l wrote:
       | Surprised to see people talking about spudguns firing whole
       | potatoes! I didn't even know that was a thing. The spudgun I had
       | when I was young just fired small parts of a potato, with a whole
       | potato enough to last for ages. I think it was the Lone Star
       | Spudmatic. Not only safer but less wasteful.
       | 
       | FWIW, it looks like Wikipedia differentiates the smaller spudgun
       | from the larger potato cannon:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spud_gun vs
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_cannon
        
       | ElCapitanMarkla wrote:
       | This takes me back. Dad was a plumber so I had ready access to
       | all the gear for this growing up. I was introduced to it when he
       | turned up at home one day with one, we launched a few spuds into
       | the neighbouring paddock using Mum's hairspray.
       | 
       | I was about 13 at the time so I spent hours on this site planning
       | different launchers. Managed to blow my friend's Dad's air
       | compressor up while firing a smaller one. I don't know how the
       | hell I still have all my fingers / eyes but I had some fun :)
        
       | vlachen wrote:
       | In the summer of 2004 I was enjoying the mountainous view and
       | ample sun of Kandahar, Afghanistan. It was there, eating one of
       | my allotted MREs, that I noticed the MRE heater was printed in
       | large letters "Do not expose to flame." Being a bored jarhead, I
       | couldn't help but try and figure out why. Being able to rub a few
       | brain cells together, I thought about how the heaters are
       | activated by the addition of water. Since water is hydrogen and
       | oxygen, I was willing to bet that those were some of the reaction
       | products. I never bothered to look it up, but I did find that
       | whatever was coming out with the steam was also quite flammable.
       | 
       | Once that was proven, I recalled that recently a contractor had
       | dug a well near our work site. I ambled over and found a 3 foot
       | long, ~3 inch diameter steel pipe that had a 90 degree elbow with
       | a quick release cap. All that was required after that was a touch
       | hole, added with a drill, some MRE heaters, and projectiles.
       | 
       | Potatoes were not available there, but fruit like oranges and
       | pears were. I started with an orange and just jammed it into the
       | very end of the barrel, it was too big to go all the way in, and
       | went for it. The distance was laughable, 1 or 2 feet, but the
       | sound? Everyone came running out of the work center tents because
       | they thought I had just loosed a round from my weapon.
       | 
       | After being called an idiot by the local Lieutenant, I switch to
       | only pears, which were easy to jam in hard enough to cut the
       | excess off. At this point, I was lobbing pears across the
       | perimeter road, into the scrub / minefield outside the wire.
       | Never found a mine with it though.
       | 
       | All my fun ended one faithful day when I accidentally dropped a
       | pear in front of a Romanian MP truck on patrol around the
       | perimeter. The 50 cal on top turned to point at me, I dropped the
       | pear cannon and walked away, never to return.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | > The 50 cal on top turned to point at me, I dropped the pear
         | cannon and walked away
         | 
         | Pretty sure I would have dropped something else and RUN away
        
           | vlachen wrote:
           | Kind of like a cat, I didn't want to tickle their predator
           | instinct. If I was on the other side of the wire, it'd
           | probably be a different story. Or no story.
        
         | vlachen wrote:
         | Well, I wasn't wrong about the hydrogen part:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flameless_ration_heater#Chemic...
        
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