[HN Gopher] Coup Attempt in Bolivia
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Coup Attempt in Bolivia
Author : henriquenunez
Score : 81 points
Date : 2024-06-26 21:13 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| lkbm wrote:
| https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c288eewr1wko might be a better
| source. It's not paywalled, for one.
| _DeadFred_ wrote:
| I find the BBC is too willing to run with anything when it
| comes to breaking news. Longer lead time pieces using BBC
| reporters with better edited content they do great on, but they
| have proven over and over they will relay anything when it
| comes to breaking news, and that they do especially poor when
| using freelance reporters for breaking news.
|
| Ido Vock, who has the BBC byline, is a freelance journalist not
| a BBC reporter. https://muckrack.com/ido-vock
|
| Marcelo Rochabrun from the Bloomberg piece is Bloomberg's Lima
| Bureau Chief.
| https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AWGVgQgsdOs/marcelo-rochab...
| dudus wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of the population support
| the coup.
|
| South America has a history of military dictatorship but after
| the pendulum swings enough to the other side people seem to lose
| their memory a bit.
| silvestreh wrote:
| Most of them funded by the US.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
| localfirst wrote:
| Democratic governments and political parties, unions, student
| organizations, journalists, artists, teachers, intellectuals,
| opponents to the military juntas and left-wing sympathizers
| (including socialists, peronists, anarchists and communists)
|
| Crazy they just green lighted the whole segment of the
| population who were fighting for their own destiny.
| Aerbil313 wrote:
| Democracy doesn't work in a US-dominant world. My country is
| nowhere near Africa yet there have been 7 coup attemps, 4
| successful, most backed by US in her 100 year history[2]. The
| last one didn't succeed and the US is currently protecting
| the leader of the attempt, refusing to give him us back.
|
| Arab leaders are likewise domestically widely regarded as
| sockpuppets of the USA. On the rare occasion a democratic
| election happens, the president suddenly dies, gets
| assasinated, or a coup d'etat happens and gets hanged. Off
| the top of my head see [2] for an example.
|
| This is not to say democracy would work in a Russia- or
| China- dominant world. It seems democracy only works for the
| nations who can sufficiently defend against infiltration by
| the NSA/foreign intelligence agency of the dominant power.
| And I don't think that's easy, or feasible at all. You can't
| expect an African nation of 10M population who gained
| independence 2 decades ago to have the skilled people to be
| able to conduct this sort of intelligence operations.
|
| And of course, the US is the peacekeeper of the world, only
| bringing democracy and welfare to the poor nations held back
| by their authoritarian leaders and backward ideologies and
| religions. Long live Imperium Americana!
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
|
| 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Egyptian_coup_d%27%C3%A
| 9t...
| seo-speedwagon wrote:
| Doesn't look like it
|
| The unions declared an indefinite general strike
|
| https://x.com/redstreamnet/status/1806068831984783583
|
| And as I write this it seems like they're outnumbered in the
| plaza
|
| https://x.com/KawsachunNews/status/1806083169726198113
| pessimizer wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised either, seeing as Arce has gone off-
| script as if he's been bought and paid for. He wasn't really
| elected himself, he was elected as a proxy for Morales who had
| been overthrown and exiled by a coup. He's followed that up
| with a complete break with Morales.
|
| What _wouldn 't surprise me even more_ is if this coup were
| staged to allow Arce the excuse to put the country into martial
| law before being voted out.
|
| -----
|
| _Evo Morales' party expels President Luis Arce and deepens
| political war in Bolivia_
|
| https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-05/evo-mora...
|
| _In Bolivia, an "Intense" Battle Between Arce and Morales_
|
| https://www.americasquarterly.org/article/in-bolivia-an-inte...
| thiagoharry wrote:
| Large part, perhaps. Latin America is very polarized. But
| apparently not the majority. Luiz Arce got the absolute
| majority of votes in the last election, which was organized
| precisely by the group that did the last coup and was against
| him and his political party.
| rwmj wrote:
| Sounds like the plotters didn't secure the TV station first.
| dralley wrote:
| Rookie mistake.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| https://archive.ph/EK05C
| kragen wrote:
| it sounds like the kirchners' allies in bolivia are going through
| the kind of crisis we were headed for here in argentina before
| they lost power here in the election in november. not that we
| aren't still in a crisis, but we have two things going for us:
|
| 1. recognizing the wrongheadedness of the kirchners' policies, we
| elected an opposition leader who favors capitalism.
| unfortunately, he's a total nutbag, and his advocacy of freedom
| seems to be strictly limited to freedom of enterprise (not, for
| example, freedom of abortion, freedom to protest, or freedom to
| use public transit anonymously)
|
| 2. we aren't a petro-state
| pessimizer wrote:
| Peronism is weird and incomparable with other non-right wing
| movements. Argentina's modern history is largely defined by
| left-wing Peronists vs. right-wing Peronists.
|
| Hence, you can't evaluate other countries governments based on
| whether they're aligned with the Kirchners or not, it says
| almost nothing other than they're not on the extreme right. You
| have to judge them on their own terms.
| karma_daemon wrote:
| From the article
|
| "Bolivia is among the world's most politically turbulent nations,
| having had nearly 200 coups and revolutions since it won
| independence from Spain two centuries ago. Morales was ousted by
| the army as recently as 2019 after a disputed election."
| vintermann wrote:
| Apparently a general, Juan Jose Zuniga was removed as commander
| of the Bolivian army yesterday, and he responded with this. Makes
| it a bit understandable why they would want to get rid of him.
| openasocket wrote:
| I've been trying to get a sense of how much of the military is
| actually behind this. Current reporting seems a bit confused. For
| example, I've seen multiple articles say that "2 tanks" are
| outside the government palace, but I've yet to see any photos or
| videos demonstrating that. All I've seen so far are a handful of
| images like in the article showing uniformed troops, and one
| video showing an armored vehicle ramming a building
| (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c288eewr1wko.amp ). Best I can
| tell that is a Tiger armored vehicle. I'm wondering if this is a
| case of reporters calling any military vehicle a "tank" or if
| there are actual tanks (which for Bolivia would mean the
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK-105_Kurassier or possibly
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE-9_Cascavel depending on you
| definition of "tank").
|
| At some point hopefully someone with knowledge of Bolivian Army
| insignia will chime in and identify which units are participating
| in this coup.
| teleforce wrote:
| Fun facts, despite considered itself as a champion of fair
| election and democracy, US government has interfered in many
| foreign national elections of countries including Italy,
| Philippines, Japan and Lebanon. During the Cold War period alone,
| US has engaged in 64 covert and six overt attempts at regime
| change, some against proper democratically elected governments
| including the infamous 1953 Iranian coup d'etat, that was
| originally denied by US government, later admitted and apologized
| [1],[2].
|
| [1] United States involvement in regime change:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
|
| [2] CIA publicly acknowledges 1953 coup it backed in Iran was
| undemocratic as it revisits 'Argo' rescue:
|
| https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cia-publicly-acknowledg...
| strstr wrote:
| What does this have to do with the article?
| tmpz22 wrote:
| US involvement in South America is arguably the leading cause
| of the current instabilities in the region. It is not the
| sole factor but in order to understand the geopolitics of the
| region must be taken into account. Knowledge of these US
| involvements are often not well known in my experience.
|
| Consider for example the role of American legislation and
| consumption in the drug trade and the resulting immigration
| and criminal crises throughout the continents.
| tptacek wrote:
| Bolivia has been independent since 1825 and has since then
| experienced over 190 coups. Nobody can whitewash US
| involvement in South and Central America in the 20th
| century, but the US is not the sole cause of Bolivian
| instability. Perhaps it makes more sense to blame
| colonialism, which set up the unstable rural/urban
| indigenous/white duality that has made the place so
| fragile.
| bbreier wrote:
| And how long has it been since the last US backed coup in
| Bolivia?
| tptacek wrote:
| I have no idea. I made a specific argument and was
| explicit about not immunizing the US for its absolutely
| wretched involvement with South and Central American
| politics.
| kachapopopow wrote:
| because it's probably backed by the US
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