[HN Gopher] Coup Attempt in Bolivia
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       Coup Attempt in Bolivia
        
       Author : henriquenunez
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2024-06-26 21:13 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | lkbm wrote:
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c288eewr1wko might be a better
       | source. It's not paywalled, for one.
        
         | _DeadFred_ wrote:
         | I find the BBC is too willing to run with anything when it
         | comes to breaking news. Longer lead time pieces using BBC
         | reporters with better edited content they do great on, but they
         | have proven over and over they will relay anything when it
         | comes to breaking news, and that they do especially poor when
         | using freelance reporters for breaking news.
         | 
         | Ido Vock, who has the BBC byline, is a freelance journalist not
         | a BBC reporter. https://muckrack.com/ido-vock
         | 
         | Marcelo Rochabrun from the Bloomberg piece is Bloomberg's Lima
         | Bureau Chief.
         | https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AWGVgQgsdOs/marcelo-rochab...
        
       | dudus wrote:
       | I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of the population support
       | the coup.
       | 
       | South America has a history of military dictatorship but after
       | the pendulum swings enough to the other side people seem to lose
       | their memory a bit.
        
         | silvestreh wrote:
         | Most of them funded by the US.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
        
           | localfirst wrote:
           | Democratic governments and political parties, unions, student
           | organizations, journalists, artists, teachers, intellectuals,
           | opponents to the military juntas and left-wing sympathizers
           | (including socialists, peronists, anarchists and communists)
           | 
           | Crazy they just green lighted the whole segment of the
           | population who were fighting for their own destiny.
        
           | Aerbil313 wrote:
           | Democracy doesn't work in a US-dominant world. My country is
           | nowhere near Africa yet there have been 7 coup attemps, 4
           | successful, most backed by US in her 100 year history[2]. The
           | last one didn't succeed and the US is currently protecting
           | the leader of the attempt, refusing to give him us back.
           | 
           | Arab leaders are likewise domestically widely regarded as
           | sockpuppets of the USA. On the rare occasion a democratic
           | election happens, the president suddenly dies, gets
           | assasinated, or a coup d'etat happens and gets hanged. Off
           | the top of my head see [2] for an example.
           | 
           | This is not to say democracy would work in a Russia- or
           | China- dominant world. It seems democracy only works for the
           | nations who can sufficiently defend against infiltration by
           | the NSA/foreign intelligence agency of the dominant power.
           | And I don't think that's easy, or feasible at all. You can't
           | expect an African nation of 10M population who gained
           | independence 2 decades ago to have the skilled people to be
           | able to conduct this sort of intelligence operations.
           | 
           | And of course, the US is the peacekeeper of the world, only
           | bringing democracy and welfare to the poor nations held back
           | by their authoritarian leaders and backward ideologies and
           | religions. Long live Imperium Americana!
           | 
           | 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
           | 
           | 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Egyptian_coup_d%27%C3%A
           | 9t...
        
         | seo-speedwagon wrote:
         | Doesn't look like it
         | 
         | The unions declared an indefinite general strike
         | 
         | https://x.com/redstreamnet/status/1806068831984783583
         | 
         | And as I write this it seems like they're outnumbered in the
         | plaza
         | 
         | https://x.com/KawsachunNews/status/1806083169726198113
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | I wouldn't be surprised either, seeing as Arce has gone off-
         | script as if he's been bought and paid for. He wasn't really
         | elected himself, he was elected as a proxy for Morales who had
         | been overthrown and exiled by a coup. He's followed that up
         | with a complete break with Morales.
         | 
         | What _wouldn 't surprise me even more_ is if this coup were
         | staged to allow Arce the excuse to put the country into martial
         | law before being voted out.
         | 
         | -----
         | 
         |  _Evo Morales' party expels President Luis Arce and deepens
         | political war in Bolivia_
         | 
         | https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-05/evo-mora...
         | 
         |  _In Bolivia, an "Intense" Battle Between Arce and Morales_
         | 
         | https://www.americasquarterly.org/article/in-bolivia-an-inte...
        
         | thiagoharry wrote:
         | Large part, perhaps. Latin America is very polarized. But
         | apparently not the majority. Luiz Arce got the absolute
         | majority of votes in the last election, which was organized
         | precisely by the group that did the last coup and was against
         | him and his political party.
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | Sounds like the plotters didn't secure the TV station first.
        
         | dralley wrote:
         | Rookie mistake.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/EK05C
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | it sounds like the kirchners' allies in bolivia are going through
       | the kind of crisis we were headed for here in argentina before
       | they lost power here in the election in november. not that we
       | aren't still in a crisis, but we have two things going for us:
       | 
       | 1. recognizing the wrongheadedness of the kirchners' policies, we
       | elected an opposition leader who favors capitalism.
       | unfortunately, he's a total nutbag, and his advocacy of freedom
       | seems to be strictly limited to freedom of enterprise (not, for
       | example, freedom of abortion, freedom to protest, or freedom to
       | use public transit anonymously)
       | 
       | 2. we aren't a petro-state
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Peronism is weird and incomparable with other non-right wing
         | movements. Argentina's modern history is largely defined by
         | left-wing Peronists vs. right-wing Peronists.
         | 
         | Hence, you can't evaluate other countries governments based on
         | whether they're aligned with the Kirchners or not, it says
         | almost nothing other than they're not on the extreme right. You
         | have to judge them on their own terms.
        
       | karma_daemon wrote:
       | From the article
       | 
       | "Bolivia is among the world's most politically turbulent nations,
       | having had nearly 200 coups and revolutions since it won
       | independence from Spain two centuries ago. Morales was ousted by
       | the army as recently as 2019 after a disputed election."
        
       | vintermann wrote:
       | Apparently a general, Juan Jose Zuniga was removed as commander
       | of the Bolivian army yesterday, and he responded with this. Makes
       | it a bit understandable why they would want to get rid of him.
        
       | openasocket wrote:
       | I've been trying to get a sense of how much of the military is
       | actually behind this. Current reporting seems a bit confused. For
       | example, I've seen multiple articles say that "2 tanks" are
       | outside the government palace, but I've yet to see any photos or
       | videos demonstrating that. All I've seen so far are a handful of
       | images like in the article showing uniformed troops, and one
       | video showing an armored vehicle ramming a building
       | (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c288eewr1wko.amp ). Best I can
       | tell that is a Tiger armored vehicle. I'm wondering if this is a
       | case of reporters calling any military vehicle a "tank" or if
       | there are actual tanks (which for Bolivia would mean the
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK-105_Kurassier or possibly
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE-9_Cascavel depending on you
       | definition of "tank").
       | 
       | At some point hopefully someone with knowledge of Bolivian Army
       | insignia will chime in and identify which units are participating
       | in this coup.
        
       | teleforce wrote:
       | Fun facts, despite considered itself as a champion of fair
       | election and democracy, US government has interfered in many
       | foreign national elections of countries including Italy,
       | Philippines, Japan and Lebanon. During the Cold War period alone,
       | US has engaged in 64 covert and six overt attempts at regime
       | change, some against proper democratically elected governments
       | including the infamous 1953 Iranian coup d'etat, that was
       | originally denied by US government, later admitted and apologized
       | [1],[2].
       | 
       | [1] United States involvement in regime change:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
       | 
       | [2] CIA publicly acknowledges 1953 coup it backed in Iran was
       | undemocratic as it revisits 'Argo' rescue:
       | 
       | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cia-publicly-acknowledg...
        
         | strstr wrote:
         | What does this have to do with the article?
        
           | tmpz22 wrote:
           | US involvement in South America is arguably the leading cause
           | of the current instabilities in the region. It is not the
           | sole factor but in order to understand the geopolitics of the
           | region must be taken into account. Knowledge of these US
           | involvements are often not well known in my experience.
           | 
           | Consider for example the role of American legislation and
           | consumption in the drug trade and the resulting immigration
           | and criminal crises throughout the continents.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | Bolivia has been independent since 1825 and has since then
             | experienced over 190 coups. Nobody can whitewash US
             | involvement in South and Central America in the 20th
             | century, but the US is not the sole cause of Bolivian
             | instability. Perhaps it makes more sense to blame
             | colonialism, which set up the unstable rural/urban
             | indigenous/white duality that has made the place so
             | fragile.
        
               | bbreier wrote:
               | And how long has it been since the last US backed coup in
               | Bolivia?
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | I have no idea. I made a specific argument and was
               | explicit about not immunizing the US for its absolutely
               | wretched involvement with South and Central American
               | politics.
        
           | kachapopopow wrote:
           | because it's probably backed by the US
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-26 23:00 UTC)