[HN Gopher] Next gen 3D metal printing
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Next gen 3D metal printing
Author : justinclift
Score : 72 points
Date : 2024-06-26 19:41 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fabric8labs.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (fabric8labs.com)
| smitty1e wrote:
| > The electrochemical approach allows for micron-scale feature
| resolution, complex internal features, high-purity materials, and
| rapid scalability to support mass manufacturing.
|
| That just does not sound cheap. One envisions a cost-distributed
| 3D effort, with this used for certain critical parts.
| ben_w wrote:
| I'd assume slow rather than expensive; if it's similar to other
| electroplating, think in terms of nm/s in the z-axis, 96,485
| Amp-seconds* per mole of whatever metal you're putting down at
| a small (material dependent) number of volts of potential, so
| I'd guess OOM EUR10/kg process plus whatever the material cost
| is in the form of an electrolyte.
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_constant
| impossiblefork wrote:
| I actually think it does.
|
| I'm imagining a human-sized tank, continuously growing things
| by electroplating, slowly, slowly, but eventually making
| something quite big.
|
| I find this concept very appealing. I don't quite understand
| how it though, because I have view of electroplating as
| something which is very different from this precise and
| presumably at least somewhat fast process.
| kube-system wrote:
| It sounds a lot like semiconductor manufacturing, except
| electrochemical instead of photochemical.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| It'll be like a resin printer, the hard part is the anode array
| which isn't that hard, it seems that TFT screen manufacturers
| can make what's needed and TFTs screens are really cheap.
| ben_w wrote:
| Good to see!
|
| This looks like something I toyed with in 2016, but (as you may
| expect from my lack of relevant experience and qualifications)
| all I found were what Edison called "ways to not make a
| lightbulb".
|
| The:
|
| > microelectrode array printhead
|
| in particular is what I wanted to experiment with, because
| _something like this_ clearly allows parallelisation of the build
| process in much the same way photopolymerisation is faster than
| FDM.
| petermcneeley wrote:
| I tried out the multi electrode approach about 15 years ago. My
| work was based on the original work of John D. Madden
| https://people.ece.ubc.ca/mm/papers/Madden_JMES_1996.pdf
|
| I can find my paper and post it but keep in mind it was a
| "undergraduate thesis" and something I spent only a very finite
| amount of time on.
| kbenson wrote:
| My understanding is that most current metal 3d printing yields
| items with significantly worse properties with respect to shear
| forces, because of how the molecules align compared to when it's
| melted together as a whole and cooled (or something like that, I
| can't find the research paper someone linked to me in the past
| here regarding that).
|
| Do we know if this is better with respect to that?
| alfalfasprout wrote:
| In theory can't the final object be tempered/annealed to
| achieve the desired properties?
| metal_am wrote:
| Texture (the statistical arrangement of all the crystal lattice
| arrangements that make up a metal) can play a role on
| mechanical properties, but current metal AM is more than able
| to meet material standards. It's good to be careful with
| blanket statements because the most accurate answer is usually
| "it depends."
| WheatMillington wrote:
| I agree we should avoid blanket statements, which is why your
| statement "current metal AM is more than able to meet
| material standards" is problematic. What standards? There is
| no generic "material standards" for all materials, and 3d
| metal printing is definitely inferior to MOST other
| manufacturing methods in MOST circumstances, in terms of
| mechanical properties.
| Iulioh wrote:
| I mean, we 3d print aerospace engine parts, is this "common
| sense" logic really true?
| codetrotter wrote:
| The 3D printing they do for aerospace engine parts is
| certainly very much different from how most metal 3d
| printing is done. Because the requirements are completely
| different, and the budgets that aerospace have available
| to them are insanely much bigger.
| llm_trw wrote:
| I was recently brought in by a friend as a consultant for
| a traditional machining shop buying a 3d printer, the
| machine looked like this:
| https://i.all3dp.com/workers/images/fit=scale-
| down,w=1200,gr...
|
| Right now you can print aerospace quality parts on
| hardware that's designed for marine grade parts, which we
| did by testing them to failure.
|
| The only reason why the price is higher for aerospace is
| that you need to certify the machines and the environment
| in which they work and that costs an arm and a leg.
| metal_am wrote:
| A line has to be drawn somewhere because this is a rabbit
| hole. Without going into the specifics of ASTM standards,
| etc., there are metal AM parts flying today in both air and
| space. IMO, that counts as meeting standards.
| Joel_Mckay wrote:
| Where did you hear that?
|
| In general, the issues sintered parts have are slight porosity
| (<3%), slow annealing cycles (internal stress), and possible
| problems with conventional machining.
|
| We also looked at metal-salt plating processes, and concluded
| the risks to the operator made it nonviable for general
| application. There was also the serious environmental impact
| risks, and that meant hazmat disposal costs etc.
|
| There are always trade-offs with any technology.
|
| Have a great day, =3
| xnx wrote:
| Would there still be a benefit to rapidly producing metal
| molds/forms for other materials?
| esskay wrote:
| With some of the earlier ones that may have been the case as
| many were simply melting small blobs of metal and dropping them
| onto eachother. The newer ones act a lot more like a welder.
| It's why it's been possible to 3d print rocket components.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| The headline (and thusfar only, it seems) application is a 3d
| metal printed waterblock with Asetek (the infamous AIO patent
| trolls, incidentally), with some hooplah about "quieter pumps"
| and better performance.
|
| Arctic makes a line of AIO coolers which are among the lowest-
| cost, yet have industry-leading performance and can dissipate
| hundreds of watts with ease.
|
| This just doesn't seem like an area that needs to be optimized. I
| could see certain applications like cooling high power RF stuff
| and lasers...but if this was the best they could do for their
| headline application, I'm a bit skeptical.
|
| Either they're doing a poor job of commercializing it, it's got
| drawbacks that are deal-killers for a lot of industries, or
| something else...
| tombert wrote:
| I saw a video doing something like awhile ago [1], and I thought
| the idea of using electroplating made sense, but I know
| absolutely nothing about chemical engineering or material
| science.
|
| It's interesting to see this idea in action, though with my
| limited experience with electroplating it seems like it'd be
| absurdly slow.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/W1d36wbx_yg
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| This is brilliant. So many problems solved. This person is
| awesome!
| justinclift wrote:
| Looks like there was an article about it on ServeTheHome last
| year too:
|
| https://www.servethehome.com/next-gen-copper-cold-plates-so-...
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