[HN Gopher] How Cathode Ray Tubes Work [video]
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Cathode Ray Tubes Work [video]
        
       Author : hggh
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2024-06-23 20:35 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | Sakos wrote:
       | Great video. Seeing what it looks like inside with the phosphor
       | and the mask was so enlightening. I also recently watched the one
       | by Technology Connections, which was quite good:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4UgZBs7ZGo
       | 
       | I feel like I have a much better basic understanding of CRTs now.
       | They felt like utter magic before. Now it just feels a bit like
       | magic. The only thing that still confuses me is how the electron
       | gun itself actually works. I don't really get how electrons are
       | being shot at all and why we can shoot them in a beam.
        
         | emchammer wrote:
         | Think of the electrons not as being shot, but as being boiled
         | off a cathode where there are a lot of them, and then suddenly
         | they find themselves attracted to an anode which has nothing
         | blocking them from reaching it.
        
           | willis936 wrote:
           | Don't think of the bullet as being shot, but as being
           | released and finding itself attracted to a low pressure space
           | with nothing blocking it from reaching it. ;)
        
         | Cerium wrote:
         | The basic idea is you have a source of electrons and a way to
         | get at least some of them going where you want. A simple way to
         | do this is to have a hot charged filament (source of electrons)
         | and a plate with a hole to attract them. Check out a google
         | image search for "electron gun schematic" to get a better idea.
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | You can also build a glow discharge gun and use an aperture
           | which is way simpler than a hot cathode.
        
         | Bluecobra wrote:
         | One thing that I still find magical is vector graphics on a
         | CRT, even when playing games like Asteroids or Lunar Lander.
         | AFAIK there is no way for any other display to replicate the
         | intensity of vector graphics, except on a real CRT. It would be
         | a sad day when they eventually die off.
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | Maybe not the same thing but you could do something similar
           | with a lasers and I'll let this random video I just looked up
           | show how it works:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsaYcX5aIac
           | 
           | Looks like there are some commercial products like that as
           | well.
        
       | darajava wrote:
       | Great video and explanation, but he still doesn't really explain
       | how the magnets in the monochrome CRTs actually draw the image.
       | How do they know where to point? How does it move so fast?
        
         | Sakos wrote:
         | For this, I recommend the Technology Connections video
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4UgZBs7ZGo. He actually
         | demonstrates how the beam is redirected by the electro-magnets
         | wrapped around the base of the tube. It's _very_ cool.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | > How do they know where to point?
         | 
         | With a VGA signal, a pulse on the vsync line tells the monitor
         | to start at the top left. A pulse on the hsync line tells the
         | monitor to move down a row. In between those pulses, the analog
         | values of the RGB values determine the color as the beam scans
         | left to right. The CRT is dumb -- it's up to the device sending
         | the signal to time the pixel values correctly so they hit the
         | screen as the beam scans over the correct spot on the screen.
         | If you were making a device that needed to display analog
         | video, you'd have to make sure the signal you were outputting
         | would make the electron gun fire at the right time. (e.g.:
         | http://www.tinyvga.com/vga-timing)
         | 
         | > How does it move so fast?
         | 
         | They're electromagnets, so they move in sync with the timed
         | signal sent to them.
        
           | MrRadar wrote:
           | In theory the electromagnets controlling the vertical and
           | horizontal sweep of the electron beam should react instantly
           | to the incoming sync signals but in practice it's much more
           | complicated (because the magnetic fields store energy which
           | you need to deal with somehow). Bob Anderson has an entry in
           | his series on the general process of restoring vintage
           | televisions which goes in depth on the topic: https://www.you
           | tube.com/watch?v=HdEfo8jS3FI&list=PL4aHiwoXvL...
        
           | dclowd9901 wrote:
           | With CRTs, how did the input device know when to fire in sync
           | with the CRT? I assume the CRT was operating on some factor
           | of mains power for its timing?
        
             | nyanpasu64 wrote:
             | The input signal combines video amplitudes (positive
             | voltages) and sync pulses (negative voltages) which tell
             | the CRT when to move the beam around. Technically composite
             | video is AC-coupled so I'm not sure how sync pulses are
             | actually identified (but video brightness is relative to
             | the porch voltage right after a sync pulse). Not sure if
             | antenna TV RF signals are DC or AC coupled.
        
             | sixothree wrote:
             | I believe there are timing pulses in the blank area of the
             | signal that it syncs to. But it depends on the signal.
        
         | MrRadar wrote:
         | For how they know where to point, that's something that's
         | calibrated individually for each set. Typically the initial
         | calibration is done at the factory (or, if you've done a major
         | service on a set, by the technician who did the service) and
         | then tweaked by the end-user to their own preferences. That's
         | why all CRT displays have adjustments at least for hoizontal
         | and vertical size and position (offset). Fancier displays have
         | even more adjustments for other geometric corrections like
         | pincushion and keystone.
         | 
         | Here's a video demonstrating how to do a full setup
         | (calibration) on a vintage color CRT (timestamp 16:02 for the
         | start of the procedure): https://youtu.be/Oeylkj1vap8?t=962
        
         | okanat wrote:
         | The answer depends on the level of the detail you are asking
         | for. There is a generic explanation, slightly more engineering
         | / scientific one, relying on basic electrical engineering
         | knowledge with not much nuance one and finally full detailed
         | engineering explanation with a whole bunch of calculus and
         | nuances one.
         | 
         | CRTs are yet another circuit component. They rely on electrons
         | moving or getting stored in them to "work". If you increase the
         | voltage, the electrons will move faster through the gun and
         | crash into the phosphor coating with more kinetic energy. Or
         | one can increase the current i.e. the number of electrons
         | hitting the CRT per unit of time. Both results in a brighter
         | spot. Both requires one to increase voltage of some circuit at
         | some point of the upstream.
         | 
         | Since the TV signals are also an observable piece of voltage
         | information, which we receive via an antenna, we can create
         | circuits that are capable of detecting that voltage and simply
         | act on its strength. We can create a circuit that acts when a
         | higher voltage level is observed and cause the dot to be
         | brighter.
         | 
         | We can create a circuit that has repetitive behvaior like
         | changing the magnetic field in the deflection coils such that
         | it periodically moves left to right. So it will draw a line.
         | 
         | We can also create circuits that act on time-dependent behavior
         | like the voltage dipping down for a tiny fraction of a second
         | to a level that cannot produce a dot. So we can detect when we
         | should move the deflection coil's magnetic field slightly
         | downwards to draw the next line. Or even bigger dip to reset
         | the position all the way to top.
         | 
         | When you combine all those circuits into one big Rube-Goldberg
         | machine and adjust the thousands of literal and figurative
         | knobs, you'll get a TV.
        
       | lawlessone wrote:
       | Be interesting if we kept developing this tech. Where would CRT's
       | be now?
        
         | ethagnawl wrote:
         | What's interesting and possibly surprising is that the _core_
         | tech didn 't evolve much past the 50-60s. Sony's Trinitron were
         | the pinnacle, prior to modern inputs and HD. The original
         | patent expired in the mid 90s and everyone else raced to
         | implement their version of it.
         | 
         | So, if evolution had continued, _I think_ we'd have marginally
         | lighter and more efficient displays with HDMI et al and the
         | surrounding electronics and the "smart" features seen on modern
         | screens.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Not sure about them being lighter. The vast majority of the
           | weight of a CRT was the thick glass on the front. CRTs that
           | claimed to be "flat" used very thick glass that was curved
           | like a lens so that the front the viewer saw was flat. The
           | larger the screen, the thicker the glass would need to be to
           | keep the edges/corners from bowing. That glass was very
           | heavy. The 32" 16x9 broadcast Sony monitor we had was
           | extremely heavy and required two people at a minimum to
           | carry/place it.
        
             | dclowd9901 wrote:
             | I had a 32" 4:3 trinitron I used to use for vintage gaming
             | and damned if that thing didn't weigh 130 lbs.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | There has been one innovation, the SED:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-
           | conduction_electron-...
           | 
           | In this technology, each pixel has its own tiny electron
           | emitter, thus the display is like a grid of tiny CRTs. It
           | allowed for CRT-quality contrast and color reproduction but
           | with the size and weight of an LCD system, with similar power
           | draw if not less.
           | 
           | But LCDs are cheaper to produce, and they just sucked all the
           | oxygen out of the market.
        
         | maxwell wrote:
         | CRTs are still in production.
         | 
         | https://www.thomaselectronics.com
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | For military applications (e.g., fighter jet HUDs and
           | instruments) only, at considerable expense.
        
         | uyzstvqs wrote:
         | CRT could've definitely been preferred over LCD by many gamers
         | if it was innovated on at the same pace, and for watching video
         | as well. CRT has true blacks and very low input lag. HDR on CRT
         | could probably be possible as well. The downside is that many
         | others don't want to deal with the size of CRT displays, that's
         | why this never happened.
         | 
         | But it's not needed as OLED combines the benefits of both but
         | better. OLED just has to go down in price...
        
           | madspindel wrote:
           | NanoLED will most likely replace OLED in the future.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | How much more size and resolution did you want? A 4k 16:9 CRT
         | would probably cost you $3999 today, and the weight would
         | require you to also buy an entirely new desk.
        
       | ycombinatorics wrote:
       | Nothing makes me feel older than seeing a youtube video trend
       | about CRTs. This was part of my high school curriculum.
        
       | z500 wrote:
       | When I was a kid we had a Trinitron. I used a magnet on it once
       | and pretended not to know anything about it as my dad called the
       | cable company. Apparently it was able to degauss itself because
       | the color went back to normal eventually.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | Those trinitrons looked amazing. I had a 22" I had bought
         | myself when I was a senior in high school.
         | 
         | But god were they heavy.
        
           | sixothree wrote:
           | That's a beast. Largest CRT I ever had on a desk was 21 and
           | that was nuts.
        
       | MisterTea wrote:
       | There's an old site with a nice run down of building simple DIY
       | CRT's using a glow discharge electron gun and laboratory flasks:
       | http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/crt/crt6.htm The glow discharge
       | stuff is very easy to build as you dont need a filament/heater
       | and power supply, it's a cold cathode gun. I wound up coming
       | across another simple and fun project that demonstrates a very
       | simple glow discharge gun in a glass bottle:
       | https://hackaday.com/2011/08/30/diy-electron-accelerator/
       | 
       | I built one of those bottle accelerators but with some mods using
       | a smaller Stuart's soda bottle. Cathode is a 0.5 in diameter Al
       | spacer bushing mounted to one end of a 0.25 inch aluminum tube
       | punched through a rubber stopper and the other to a tube adapter
       | screwed to a KF25 vac flange. I then rigged up a stand to hold a
       | vacuum manifold connected to my Alcatel 2008 vac pump and could
       | pull a nice vacuum down to 0.4 Pa. The bottle gun's anode is a
       | loop of 12 AWG copper wire inserted into a drilled hole and
       | sealed with Faraday wax (safe and easy to make but messy and does
       | not easily clean up.) Finally, wired it to my 200W Bertan +10kV
       | 20mA supply. The +10kV lets me setup the gun as a common cathode
       | putting the electron gun parts at ground potential. Only the
       | anode is at high potential. I then decided to see if I could
       | focus the beam and MacGyverd a lens out of a big 2 inch conduit
       | bushing I had lying around in the electrics bin. Wound a bunch of
       | 20 AWG magnet wire around it and found that building a big enough
       | field to focus and sat it around the bottle neck. That big hunk
       | of steel took a crap ton more power than I thought - I could
       | focus the beam to midway of the bottle at around 300W (30V DC @
       | 10A)into the focus lens (yes it got very hot)! At full beam power
       | I can melt holes in tin foil sheet using a focused beam.
        
       | Clamchop wrote:
       | Trinitrons and workalikes were very good, but the shadow mask
       | displays that this video focuses on to my memory didn't have the
       | excellent contrast and black levels cited. I remember most of
       | them looking pretty dull, and downright silvery if there was much
       | light in the room.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-06-25 23:00 UTC)