[HN Gopher] Infinitone Microtonal Saxophone
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       Infinitone Microtonal Saxophone
        
       Author : brudgers
       Score  : 38 points
       Date   : 2024-06-23 05:26 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (xerocraft.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (xerocraft.org)
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | Composition for the Infinitone here,
       | https://youtu.be/56fLizLEn6Y?si=o20KmVemkuHid2RX
        
       | matheist wrote:
       | Interesting, see also the glissotar (https://glissonic.com/) for
       | a purely analog variation. That one is more analogous to a
       | fretless guitar (if the linked sax is more analogous to a guitar
       | with adjustable frets).
        
         | jnichols35 wrote:
         | Wild that they may have come to basically the same design as
         | the Moe[0].
         | 
         | It seems they reached out to Bart Hopkin when they were trying
         | to patent it[1].
         | 
         | [0] https://barthopkin.com/instrumentarium/moe/
         | 
         | [1] https://barthopkin.com/more-moe/
        
         | zengid wrote:
         | I was running to the comments to post this too. The Ininitone
         | is an impressive mechanical achievement, but I think the
         | glissotar has much more potential to catch on.
        
       | amadeuspagel wrote:
       | I made a web app to play microtonal music with touchscreens:
       | https://slidesynth.com/
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Cool. One issue: not all wave shapes play at the same volume.
        
           | amadeuspagel wrote:
           | That's due to clipping. For a sine or a triangle, you'll hear
           | clipping at a volume where a sawtooth or square still sounds
           | fine.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | OK, but imho for the interface it would be better if they
             | all had the same subjective volume.
        
               | amadeuspagel wrote:
               | I've updated this, so that the gain is the same for all
               | waveforms now (before it was half for sine and triangle).
               | 
               | However, sawtooth and square are still louder because
               | they're made of three osillators (spread based on touch
               | surface).
               | 
               | Another reason for the difference between waveforms is
               | multitouch, this is also something that sounds different
               | for different waveforms.
        
             | zooch wrote:
             | If you switch from sine to square or sawtooth the change in
             | volume is jarring.
             | 
             | Waveforms having the same amplitude doesn't mean the ear
             | hears it at the same volume. There's more frequencies
             | contained in different waveforms and the ear is more
             | sensitive to certain ranges.
             | 
             | A smoother representation of the waveforms might contain
             | the first 5 - 10 frequencies of Fourier series but even
             | then you need to compensate with a change in amplitude.
             | 
             | It's not a DAW, it's a web app, and the users will
             | appreciate the favor.
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | Wilsonic is a microtonal tool by Ervin Wilson,
         | https://wilsonic.co/
        
         | zengid wrote:
         | needs some mouse love too! very trippy!
        
       | mauvehaus wrote:
       | This seems like a lot of effort to go to to avoid buying a
       | trombone.
       | 
       | (Former HS trombone player. Go ahead with the jokes, I love them
       | because I've lived them)
        
         | pnathan wrote:
         | As soon as I got a few lines in I was like,
         | 
         | "So, a trombone... with extra steps"
         | 
         | (Also if you want to slide, any fretless instrument is good! )
        
         | bitbckt wrote:
         | As a current semi-pro trombonist, I had the same reaction.
         | 
         | Relevant aside: Alan Kaplan has been recording Jacob Collier
         | transcriptions for his YouTube channel. Check out "Moon River".
        
         | drewcoo wrote:
         | Playing a trombone usually does not mean playing microtones in
         | tune.
         | 
         | Imagine a greater-than-twelve-tone chromatic scale.
         | 
         | Or go listen to some Harry Partch. Partch's compositions sound
         | to me more like gamelan than someone noodling on a trombone.
         | 
         | https://www.harrypartch.com/bio
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQGvmaH-ce0
        
           | waffletower wrote:
           | Partch is a good recommendation -- with a fairly large focus
           | on microtonal percussion -- but you do dismiss the trained
           | trombonists who actually train and perform microtonal works.
           | It isn't necessary to disparage a viable microtonal
           | instrument to make your point.
        
         | waffletower wrote:
         | The infinitone appears to be more like a dynamically scaled
         | instrument, unlike the trombone, which is influenced by
         | electronic instruments such as the Kaossilator and Cosmovox.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | > There are twelve semitones in every octave and they make up
       | just about all the music we hear in the West today.
       | 
       | Is it just me, or is this strict division into semitones making
       | e.g. piano music sound like it's slightly off-key at times?
        
         | mauvehaus wrote:
         | HN discussion of "The Saddest Thing I know about the Integers"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8682782
         | 
         | Original article is offline, it seems :-(
         | 
         | EDIT: archive.org to the rescue!
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20240123154411/https://blogs.sci...
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Is there a video that demonstrates the difference?
        
             | npsimons wrote:
             | It's not short, but I was introduced to the concept in a
             | video series on FLOSS Linux audio tools: https://www.youtub
             | e.com/watch?v=hdPPPeq82hw&list=PLf_MTToSAx...
             | 
             | Specifically, you can play with it yourself with a tool
             | like ZynAddSubFX's (https://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.io/)
             | virtual keyboard, where you can enable microtonal under
             | scale settings and tweak to whatever tuning you want (see
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdPPPeq82hw&t=669s for
             | where the video above starts showing this).
             | 
             | A simpler and shorter video discussing the history of just
             | intonation and equal temperament, with examples:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYcS57eCqs
        
         | jfengel wrote:
         | Yep. There are many different ways to tune a piano, none of
         | them perfect. A tuning that is just right for one key will
         | leave real howlers in others. (Literally "howlers"; it's called
         | a "wolf tone")
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(music)
         | 
         | Actual pianos are usually tuned in a way that sounds pretty
         | good most of the time, without ever sounding perfect.
        
           | singleshot_ wrote:
           | "Well-tempered" (yes, like the clavier).
        
         | IsTom wrote:
         | Pianos are tuned differently, they use stretch tuning and will
         | be pretty out of tune with other instruments at both lowest and
         | highest notes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_tuning#/medi
         | a/File:Rails...)
        
         | fernly wrote:
         | You have a good ear, you are hearing the small errors inherent
         | in "twelve-tone equal temperament"[1] which is a compromise
         | between numerical ideals and practical instrument-making.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_equal_temperament
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | Equal temperament is used to allow playing in arbitrary keys
           | without retuning...for example D and E flat are equally in
           | (and out of tune) with equal temperament. With Pythagorean or
           | Just tuning, instruments are tuned to a specific key (or set
           | of related keys).
           | 
           | Which is to say historically, equal temperament is mostly a
           | result of compositional and performance concerns rather than
           | manufacturing limitations.
        
       | card_zero wrote:
       | The word saxophone comes from the Middle English _sax,_ "knife",
       | and the Ancient Greek _phonos,_ "murder".
        
         | ogig wrote:
         | The word comes from the surname of the inventor, Sax, and
         | phono, sound.
         | 
         | https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolphe_Sax
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | Hrrm. Looking at the electronics apparently it's an array of
       | servos mounted to a tapered rectangular prism base geometry sheet
       | metal chassis held together through welding. Listening to the
       | recording they seem to 'click' audibly when closing off holes. I
       | wonder if it would be feasible to introduce a non-clicky approach
       | and/or a non-servo approach, for example by integrating on-PCB
       | linear actuation and some form of non-metallic seal contact. Non-
       | servo would also have the benefit of greatly reducing instrument
       | weight. On-PCB would also have the benefit of greatly reducing
       | cost, assuming a working mechanism can be found with adequate
       | torque. Happy to offer what assistance I can if there's a contact
       | point.
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-25 23:01 UTC)