[HN Gopher] The Prototype's Language
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       The Prototype's Language
        
       Author : ohduran
       Score  : 14 points
       Date   : 2024-06-19 09:28 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.alvaroduran.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.alvaroduran.com)
        
       | packetlost wrote:
       | I'm not sure I would want to use Python for anything that
       | remotely touches money. It's far, far down on my list of
       | languages I would use for something that has serious consequences
       | for being incorrect.
        
       | dkarl wrote:
       | The article really needs to explain how a comparison of Python to
       | Java is supposed to explain what languages people choose for new
       | services in 2024. Why aren't other languages on the table?
       | 
       | Even taking it at face value that the choice is between Python
       | and Java, the article leaves so much unaddressed.
       | 
       | > a good plan executed now trumps a perfect plan done next week
       | 
       | In what universe does this apply to a payments system?
       | 
       | Hatred for Java is burned deep in my soul, and I've spent an
       | unreasonable amount of time on this very web site carefully
       | articulating reasons why I think Java is a crufty relic whose
       | design reflects a bunch of discredited beliefs from a quarter
       | century ago. But gosh, if I had to choose between Java and Python
       | for a payments system, I think I might choose Java.
        
         | cyberax wrote:
         | Java just got unlucky to become popular at the height of
         | "object oriented" era (hey, anyone here remembers EJB?).
         | 
         | But it was interesting to see it evolving. It was one of the
         | first large language ecosystems to adopt language-specific
         | package repositories, with dependency tracking, and project-
         | specific scopes (unlike CPAN or CTAN that installed modules
         | globally).
         | 
         | It also evolved from the XML hell of EJB to the more sane
         | Spring Framework.
         | 
         | Java IDE evolution was also unique. The first IDEs were just
         | text editors, but then Eclipse and JetBrains IDEA
         | revolutionized semantic text editing. The online type checking
         | and linting in modern IDEs was popularized by these two IDEs!
        
       | c4pt0r wrote:
       | I can imagine a single uncaught exception bringing down the
       | entire payment system...
        
       | JonChesterfield wrote:
       | I'd happily prototype things in python 2.7 but not in
       | 3.something. The ratio of looking up documentation to building
       | stuff has gone badly downhill. Sadly most dependencies no longer
       | run on 2.7 because 3.0 was better in some sightly unclear fashion
       | so python 2.7 is now, finally, essentially dead.
       | 
       | But whatever, we've still got lua 5.1ish.
       | 
       | The rest of the article is coherent, including the properties you
       | want in the language, I just think python in particular has
       | catastrophically lost its way.
        
       | rzwitserloot wrote:
       | The post just skips over _why_. It states that Python is 'more
       | modern' than java as an axiom. This is not a particularly easily
       | adopted axiom. For example, python is in fact older than java.
       | Which surely isn't what the author is talking about.
       | 
       | But what _is_ the author talking about? It just isn't said. It
       | merely states that the argument 'python is slow' is no longer
       | relevant. It doesn't even state a reverse argument (why python
       | would be better than java), and thus doesn't even begin to allow
       | waylaying _those_.
       | 
       | As a trivial example, perhaps the author means: A nominally,
       | strongly, explicitly typed languages is obsolete. In which case -
       | how does that explain how, for example, typescript has happened,
       | which actively _re-introduces_ these aspects to a language?
       | 
       | Clearly then, 'python is superior' cannot be taken as a truth
       | universally held and requiring no logical argument.
       | 
       | The rest, sure, whatever - "Programming language used has a
       | significant impact on what you can write and how one would write
       | it" is.. kinda obvious, no? Turing machine logic says that it is
       | _literally_ incorrect (anything you can compute in one, you can
       | compute in the other), but that _is_ something all those with a
       | modicum of programming experience probably take for granted. You
       | _can_ write a compiler in brainfuck, but, that'd be insane.
       | 
       | The tricky argument isn't stated, the obvious arguments are.
       | 
       | I surely must be missing the point of this post.
        
       | fwlr wrote:
       | No no no, it's 2024, we write everything in Rust now
        
         | stitched2gethr wrote:
         | In this case I think you're on the right path.
        
       | stitched2gethr wrote:
       | > The single most impactful technological choice when building
       | payments is the programming language.
       | 
       | Got it. So why was Python chosen again? Call me crazy but I want
       | things that touch my money to be rock solid.
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-20 23:00 UTC)