[HN Gopher] I'm the hacker that brought down North Korea's Inter...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I'm the hacker that brought down North Korea's Internet for over a
       week. AMA
        
       Author : consumer451
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2024-06-19 05:18 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | paganel wrote:
       | Why isn't he in prison? I mean, going by the West's own laws, or
       | the spirit of them, anyway. Unless he is part of said West's
       | Armed Forces, in which case this would get really close to a
       | _casus belli_.
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | Because the "rules based order" means a diferent set of rules
         | for different situations.
         | 
         | If it's something "we like", then it's ok, if not, then prison.
         | 
         | Same for geopolitics... in one case, we care about teritorial
         | integrity, that minorities should not seced, and in others we
         | help with the breakup of countries... well.. or in some cases,
         | we act is if nothing is happening at all, and noone wants to
         | break away at all :)
        
           | pacija wrote:
           | Ajse Crbine retsi im kako stvari stoje, ja pokushavam al sam
           | uvek flegd :)
        
         | derelicta wrote:
         | No no no, ofc its morally justified to do such thing against
         | impoverished nations! After all, if they are subjected to
         | famine-inducing embargoes, they probably deserve it!
        
           | dyauspitr wrote:
           | Self imposed poverty due to the authoritarianism. They're the
           | bad guys, we care less if bad things happen to them.
        
         | Keirmot wrote:
         | Because one of the 3 basic principles of sovereignty (as is
         | understood by western political philosophy, known as
         | Westphalian sovereignty) is that there is no other authority
         | inside a State's borders except its own.
         | 
         | This means no other country has jurisdiction in North Korea,
         | besides, there's also no incentive to help in case DPRK asks
         | for help.
         | 
         | France doesn't investigante crimes that happen in Spain,
         | Portugal doesn't investigate crimes that haven in Canada, the
         | USA doesn't investigate crimes that happen in Germany, etc...
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _western political philosophy, known as Westphalian
           | sovereignty) is that there is no other authority inside a
           | State's borders except its own_
           | 
           | You're citing centuries-old political philosophy, only
           | remnants of which remain in our world [1].
           | 
           | The West that arose after WWII and through the Cold War is
           | decidedly non-Westphalian. Concepts like human rights, non-
           | proliferation and self determination are non-Westphalian. The
           | Nuremberg trials were anti-Westphalian.
           | 
           | The closest modern analogues to (and proponents of)
           | Westphalian philosophy are Russia, China and North Korea.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system
        
             | OKRainbowKid wrote:
             | These "proponents" seem less strict about applying this
             | philosophy to states other than their own.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | The Westphalian treaties gave France, Sweden and later
               | Russia the explicit right to intercede to guarantee the
               | Imperial constitution [1]. (Westphalia was concerned with
               | the Holy Roman Empire.)
               | 
               | Westphalian sovereignty as a historical concern is a myth
               | [2].
               | 
               | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantor_of_the_impe
               | rial_co...
               | 
               | [2]
               | https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-
               | organi...
        
           | klausa wrote:
           | >France doesn't investigante crimes that happen in Spain,
           | Portugal doesn't investigate crimes that haven in Canada, the
           | USA doesn't investigate crimes that happen in Germany, etc...
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europol
        
           | joecool1029 wrote:
           | Remember this guy didn't fly to DPRK, he committed what could
           | be considered crimes under CFAA while on US soil? (CFAA
           | written broadly enough that taking a country offline could be
           | considered to affect foreign commerce/communication of the
           | US)
        
           | sitkack wrote:
           | The FBI has offices around the world.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Why isn't he in prison?_
         | 
         | Not an enforcement priority for the same reason a lot of
         | domestic abuse goes unprotected: the victim is uncooperative.
         | 
         | > _going by the West's own laws, or the spirit of them, anyway_
         | 
         | Pyongyang and prosecutors would have to show he attacked a
         | "protected computer" under the CFAA [1]. Given the two routers
         | he allegedly overwhelmed were internet connected, that
         | shouldn't technically be hard under _Trotter_ and _Kane_. But
         | it _would_ be a novel expansion of interstate commerce to
         | encompass a country with whom Americans cannot legally trade,
         | _i.e._ do commerce.
         | 
         | Put another way, North Korea's status as a sanctioned country
         | might put this into a legal grey area--it might not be
         | criminally punishable. To settle that question would take a lot
         | of prosecutorial resources. It's not clear those are well spent
         | on a case where the witness won't cooperate.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.coreyvarma.com/2015/01/what-is-the-computer-
         | frau...
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | Privateering is back, baby!
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _Privateering is back_
             | 
             | Good point: a final hurdle inhibiting criminality is his
             | lack of profits. No disgorgeable gains. That means you're
             | only left with damages, which again, requires the victim's
             | cooperation to assess.
        
             | Sabinus wrote:
             | It's already back, Russian, Chinese and North Korean
             | hacking groups receive state funding and cover.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | I can imagine he did piss of some agencies? I mean other
           | states could have mapped NK's whole infra, made a plan to
           | take down NK's internet when "needed" (i.e. in case of some
           | event)... Then some dude triggers it just for fun...
           | 
           | Some things are too big to just mess around with, I would
           | feel extremely vulnerable having pulled such a stunt.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _can imagine he did piss of some agencies_
             | 
             | Sure. But OP asked why he isn't being arrested. Plenty of
             | people piss off the IC when they publish _e.g._ long-
             | coveted (and independently discovered) zero days, or write
             | an expose on something an agency was hoarding for
             | interagency political value.
        
             | spiritbear14 wrote:
             | or easily spy on ALL internet traffic, which they probably
             | do anyway
        
           | sim7c00 wrote:
           | there is a lot of 'looking the other way' when it comes to
           | people hacking 'adversaries'. Just look at people going at
           | russia's network now. western authorities arent exactly busy
           | trying to stop that. i imagine similar priorities for NK,
           | china and other places.
        
         | jauer wrote:
         | "the West" has to keep some degree of not officially caring to
         | avoid being backed into a policy corner and has no incentive to
         | take law enforcement action when threat actors in those other
         | countries operate with impunity.
         | 
         | We're already well into causus belli territory with NK, but
         | nobody wants to go there:
         | https://x.com/tarah/status/1798036415932187127
        
           | ImPostingOnHN wrote:
           | That link doesn't really explain what exactly it's talking
           | about, it's a single reply with the original post invisible
           | and all replies invisible. It speaks of a cyberattack without
           | mentioning which one.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | Has NK asked to extradite him? Maybe a swap for the sony
         | hackers?
        
         | DocTomoe wrote:
         | Don't worry, the North Koreans, if sufficiently pissed, will
         | take care of him.
        
         | csomar wrote:
         | > Why isn't he in prison?
         | 
         | He very much could, if politics changed. The US hates NK not
         | because they are authoritarian but because they are not
         | aligned. If they were to be aligned, and this guy didn't act on
         | proper authorization, he could find himself in hot waters in
         | the USA.
         | 
         | Plus he might have broken a bunch of "international" rules
         | which could see him in trouble if he was to travel to some
         | countries.
         | 
         | It is really reckless; but then there is a good chance he was
         | acting behind some agency.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _there is a good chance he was acting behind some agency_
           | 
           | Almost certainly not. The vector would have been saved. And
           | he wouldn't have maintained this public profile _ex post
           | facto_.
           | 
           | Consider, for example, taking it down during today's state
           | visit? (After you've quadruple checked that the Russians have
           | independent connectivity.)
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | It would take someone that wanted to prosecute him. If his
         | story is real he deserves a medal and possibly a job at the
         | NSA/CIA instead of a court date.
        
       | cryptica wrote:
       | The hacker doesn't understand what they're getting themselves
       | into, especially bragging about it. The hard part about going up
       | against an entire nation/state is that it's relentless. The state
       | never gets tired and never runs out of money, they could setup a
       | team of people to 'work' on that individual and also potentially
       | his present and future family members for a very long time. They
       | can keep replenishing their teams with more people. The state
       | always has a few people to spare for high-exposure targets. The
       | leaders of that state might even forget about the existence of
       | the individual but the operation will keep going until it's
       | canceled... But since they forgot about the operation in the
       | first place, it will keep going until there is some kind of
       | broader administrative restructuring, cost-cutting or
       | something... Which could be a long time away. Few things are more
       | terrifying than totalitarian state bureaucracy.
        
         | anonzzzies wrote:
         | Yep, it seems way too many people know who he is irl. I would
         | be not sleep well for the coming decade at least.
        
           | cryptica wrote:
           | Yeah and North Korea is known for punishing family members.
           | It's just foolish to brag like that. Probably worse than the
           | hack itself.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | Eh, he's probably safer than if he'd hacked a cartel. North
           | Korea isn't known for its tradecraft in the United States.
        
             | heywoods wrote:
             | While it's true that North Korea's tradecraft within the
             | U.S. might not be as sophisticated as some fear, the
             | situation isn't so straightforward. Given the significant
             | public exposure of this case and the individual's prior
             | connections within the U.S. government, NK would need to
             | carefully weigh their options.
             | 
             | I would wager that if NK would attempt to harm this hacker
             | it would be through using third parties like cartels or
             | local gangs. This could offer NK plausible deniability and
             | physical access to the target, but it also complicates
             | their operational control and increases the risk of
             | exposure. The calculus for NK would include considerations
             | such as:
             | 
             | - The individual's public and former government status,
             | which might provoke a stronger U.S. response if harmed. NK
             | would have to vet the hackers assertions that he still has
             | meaningful and significant contacts within the USG. - The
             | cost and complexity of outsourcing such an operation
             | discretely. - The types of U.S. responses that might
             | follow, from diplomatic measures to cyber counterattacks.
             | 
             | While an attack via third parties is plausible, and given
             | these factors which I am sure there are others I haven't
             | considered, it would require NK to balance the benefits
             | against the potential repercussions and the likelihood of
             | successful attribution. But I am very confident that if
             | they do follow through it will be using a cartel or local
             | gang as proxy for the reasons I mentioned.
             | 
             | P4x's public disclosures and technical skills make him a
             | unique target, but as he himself noted, the operational
             | capabilities of North Korea within the U.S. are limited.
             | It's a nuanced threat landscape where indirect methods
             | might be considered but are not guaranteed to succeed
             | without significant risks.
        
         | burrish wrote:
         | Yep and I mean... don't we all remember the assassination of
         | Kim Jong-nam outside of North Korea in a Malaysia airport ?
         | 
         | who know if NK will do it again, but showing his identity so
         | that NK know who they should target is really stupid
        
         | Kindling7257 wrote:
         | Redditors will do literally anything for social validation
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | Someone engrossed in digital foolery not understanding how the
         | real world works is so stereotypical I wonder if there's more
         | to this.
         | 
         | Incidentally for anyone who's actually paying attention, the
         | first rule in covert actions is being and staying
         | inconspicuous. The real world isn't like Hollywood where people
         | working in the shadows can become celebrities as a side gig.
         | 
         | I hope this guy has a really good security detail now that he
         | painted such a biglyarse target on himself. God damn, man.
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | > the first rule in covert actions is being and staying
           | inconspicuous.
           | 
           | Some hacker movie said the problem is when you brag about it,
           | and you desperately want to... and just looking at his post
           | with the edits, he really is metaphorically jerking off to
           | how awesome he is.
           | 
           | Holy frakk, he's even posted his face on that post. GOD DAMN!
           | I half look forward to reading about how 2 women were fooled
           | into pranking^W assassinating him (1). I hope dude isn't
           | thinking of travelling to Asia anytime soon.
           | 
           | 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Kim_Jong-
           | nam#...
        
           | cryptica wrote:
           | 100%. Maybe he will get a job with US intelligence or
           | something, that could provide some safety. People should take
           | this stuff seriously. As you say, it's not like in the
           | movies. Hollywood continuously trivializes the enormous power
           | wielded by states. There are some enemies you really don't
           | want to make.
        
       | verisimi wrote:
       | Nothing about this ama/article suggests that NK is anything but a
       | Potemkin country - a false baddie for others to hide behind. The
       | NK idea is useful to agencies, in certain circumstances.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Potemkin country_
         | 
         | Maybe they're another Russia, their tanks and artillery all
         | crumpets. But maybe not. They have a lot of them on paper [1].
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Kor...
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | They have missiles and nuclear weapons.
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | He contradicts himself left and right. In one comment, he writes
       | that they will never come after him, in another that he's
       | seriously concerned. He writes that he has a lot of serious
       | connections in the DoD up to the highest level, and then explains
       | that he has a way to stop any attack from NK, but nobody will
       | even listen to him.
        
         | throwaway8877 wrote:
         | The last two points are not contradictory.
        
         | rl3 wrote:
         | If only those stupid bureaucrats who have probably maintained
         | persistence inside NK networks for the past two or three
         | decades would just listen.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | Such an attack is, IMO, morally dubious.
       | 
       | North Korea is a poor country with millions of starving citizens,
       | and rather than sending food aid, you broke down their only comms
       | to the rest of the world?
        
         | throwaway8877 wrote:
         | They are heavily sanctioned criminal country that is openly
         | aiding a genocidal regime. If anything is then your comment is
         | morally dubious.
        
         | gorbachev wrote:
         | Yes and no.
         | 
         | Only the elite in that country has access to the Internet. The
         | starving citizens do not have access to the Internet, and even
         | if they do/did, they're so heavily monitored the minute they
         | even glanced at something controversial they'd be shipped to a
         | concentration camp.
        
           | csomar wrote:
           | > Only the elite in that country has access to the Internet.
           | 
           | Sure, but then the overall population might be depending on
           | it indirectly.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | How much did you indirectly depend on Golf Digest when
             | President Trump was reading it in office?
        
           | herbst wrote:
           | It depends what the 'hacker' took down. They have their own
           | intranet that is available for more or less all citizens
           | since 2022
        
         | terryf wrote:
         | The starving, and heavily repressed citizens do not have access
         | to the internet in NK. This attack did not affect any of them
         | to any extent.
         | 
         | Whom it did affect a bit, hopefully, were the people complicit
         | in the repressive dictatorship that runs the country.
         | 
         | The repressive dictatorship that engages in, among many other
         | bad things, scams and online fraud to partially finance the
         | country. For this they of course use the internet. So, taking
         | them off-line for a week may have prevented someone from
         | getting scammed. Good result.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _attack did not affect any of them to any extent_
           | 
           | Probably didn't. Can't say definitively. Shipments of
           | critical resources could have been disrupted, _et cetera_.
           | 
           | Doing this with zero context was probably reckless by this
           | hacker. It also likely had zero real-world consequences.
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | _Good result._
           | 
           | There's rarely such a thing as a clear, objectively simple
           | 'good result' for this sort of action because outcomes have
           | knock-on effects. For example, if the North Koreans
           | responsible for maintaining internet access were executed
           | over this that diminishes the result significantly.
        
             | golergka wrote:
             | Good point, but the original comment was about whether the
             | hacker was morally dubious, not the outcomes. If a bad
             | actor does bad things because of what you did, you're not
             | morally responsible for it -- he is.
        
         | smangold wrote:
         | I agree with that statement. What's the point in embarrassing
         | that regime. Some IT guys might get in pretty serious trouble
         | now. Good that you found out though, impressive work.
        
         | pineaux wrote:
         | I dont agree. Did you send food aid to North korea? And if you
         | did, are you sure it was not used to feed the guards? I find
         | sending food instead of trying to destroy the regime a morally
         | dubious thing to do for exactly this reason...
        
           | af78 wrote:
           | Food aid rarely reaches the people who need it. The North
           | Korean regime is notorious for diverting aid, or selling to
           | finance its nuclear program. Responsible food distribution
           | requires careful monitoring, which the regime rejects.
           | https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSEO369467/
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | Any attack on any sufficiently large structured system will
         | indirectly harm those who depend on it, irrespective of how
         | unjust, dangerous, and/or corrupt it might be. That does not
         | make resistance inherently immoral. If we permit these
         | institutions to take their subjects as hostages and refuse to
         | confront that kind of monstrous behavior for what it is, we
         | permit those institutions to continue abusing their populaces
         | forever because they will never stop of their own volition.
         | 
         | Every resistance action carried out by every resistance group
         | against tyranny throughout history has been washed in the blood
         | of people who did nothing wrong.
        
         | gameman144 wrote:
         | It's not like he went in out of pure malice or anything though,
         | they were trying to hack him first. Not saying it's some
         | morally pristine thing, but it definitely communicated what it
         | was trying to communicate.
         | 
         | As an analogy, we should have empathy for homeless people stuck
         | in poverty, but if one of them continually bikes to your house
         | and tries to break in, is it morally dubious to eventually take
         | their bike chain rather than just shooing them away each
         | attempt? I imagine the moral razor would fall on similar lines.
        
           | squigz wrote:
           | Regarding your analogy: I think it would be more like taking
           | the bikes of every homeless person as opposed to just the
           | one. Would that make it more or less morally dubious?
        
             | squigz wrote:
             | To those downvoting, I'd certainly be curious to hear why.
        
       | throwaway8877 wrote:
       | So if it was down, how did it affect global security metrics?
        
       | aorloff wrote:
       | Is anyone mining bitcoin in DPRK ?
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | I highly doubt that, it's quite a lot for the system to power
         | the 1% elites, the palace, and the ballistic missile factories.
        
           | aorloff wrote:
           | Which is why it would be so interesting
        
       | WesternWind wrote:
       | I'm unsure on the ethics of this.
       | 
       | Yes only the elite have the internet, but also the internet is
       | likely used internally for communication, which is important for
       | resource distribution.
       | 
       | I don't give two shits about the elite in NK, but the starving
       | folks living there have my deepest sympathy.
       | 
       | I'm lucky to have a lot of advantages, and I can't help but see
       | many of them as an accident of birth.
        
         | joecool1029 wrote:
         | > I'm unsure on the ethics of this.
         | 
         | I think I can make it simple. Would love to hear of any cases
         | refuting this.
         | 
         | If the country is on the US State Department's 'Sponsored'
         | program list (currently DPRK, Iran, Sudan, and Cuba) it doesn't
         | count. Florida terrorism ok, you get a pass and called a hero:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
         | 
         | Comparing to other more recent Florida originated attack on
         | against a poor country, the assassination of Haiti's president.
         | Haiti is not on that country approval list, go directly to
         | jail: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-florida-men-arrested-
         | plo...
        
         | KoolKat23 wrote:
         | So basically the elites are using the internet to control
         | (feeding) the starving folk.
         | 
         | No internet means less control. Brings them closer to the
         | starving folks level, more chance of actually being a "people's
         | republic" then. There's not much government worth salvaging in
         | that country, basically an army.
         | 
         | The only loss would be them improving their security now. Other
         | world governments may have left that vulnerability untouched
         | purely in case they need to use it at a later stage.
        
         | codezero wrote:
         | The only person responsible for the starving people in NK is
         | their dictator that keeps them in those conditions.
        
       | vasco wrote:
       | These supposed messages between him and the state department lead
       | me to believe it's either all or mostly exagerations or lies:
       | https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA
       | 
       | Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge of some regionalism, but
       | doesn't it seem very odd that a technical person would use "in
       | the open source", to refer not to code, but to a PR article on
       | some news website?
        
         | shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote:
         | See OSINT. It's well established terminology.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_intelligence
        
           | vasco wrote:
           | Thanks, never heard this in just technical circles but
           | haven't been close to any security work.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | It's a weird term. My impression is that it mostly means
           | "randos LARPing spies", though there's a commercial angle
           | too, it being to intelligence what PMCs are to the military.
           | May or may not be called after "Open Source Publishing,
           | Incorporated", featured here: [0].
           | 
           | --
           | 
           | [0] - https://irp.fas.org/congress/2005_hr/062105jardines.pdf
        
             | red-iron-pine wrote:
             | it is not a weird term, and is absolutely a thing. a big
             | deal in 2024, really.
             | 
             | back in the day it was just "reading the newspapers and
             | talking to the local cab drivers", but on 2024 you're
             | scanning forums and social media, on top of news sites.
             | 
             | go to a military-related subreddit and start asking
             | questions about stuff, and you'll eventually get an expert
             | to chime in. Make wrong & stupid claims and then have them
             | slap you down and spill some details -- that's how they got
             | dudes to release classified tank info in Warthunder.
             | 
             | dudes in Palestine and in Ukraine are getting killed
             | because they post selfies and tweets that have GPS
             | coordinates in the metadata. Not hidden behind any top
             | secret firewall, easy to find if you're checking VK or
             | Instagram, but very real implications for dropping bombs.
             | 
             | OSINT is also absolutely a thing in Cyber, where you can
             | get a lot of details about a target by reading their press
             | releases -- "Corp X signs big new deal with Oracle" --
             | which can give you a new attack surface. Phishing, on a
             | long, broad timeline, has a very high success rate, so go
             | onto Linkedin and start connecting to people. Figure out
             | their tech stack, create a Sales Guy account, and start
             | reaching out to Architects and Managers, and then map out
             | the teams that might have elevated access...
        
               | jolmg wrote:
               | > OSINT is also absolutely a thing in Cyber
               | 
               | First time I see "cyber" used as a noun. Is that short
               | for "cyberspace", i.e. the internet, or is it something
               | else?
        
               | cwillu wrote:
               | Five-sided thought is a hell of a drug, are you _sure_
               | you want to know?
        
               | Suppafly wrote:
               | the military uses it to describe all things relating to
               | the internet, the rest of us used to use it to mean
               | cybersex, which why you mostly only ever hear it from
               | military folks and c-suite type people now and the rest
               | of us kinda chuckle under our breath every time they
               | mention it.
        
             | rightbyte wrote:
             | Ye they are larpers that sell security consulting etc.
             | 
             | It is a scam. Especially attribution of hacks to states
             | that are on the Washington shit list. There is just no way
             | to know.
        
             | jjmarr wrote:
             | https://www.foreignaffairs.com/world/open-secrets-ukraine-
             | in...
             | 
             | To summarize, there are many people in government who are
             | interested in open source intelligence.
             | 
             | Traditional sources of intelligence are gathered with
             | secret means and therefore must be restricted in
             | distribution to prevent burning the source. This means you
             | can have the best possible intelligence but be unable to a)
             | act on it or b) distribute it to people who can.
             | 
             | The value proposition of using open-source intelligence is
             | that you can distribute it very widely to decisionmakers
             | since it's already "out in the open". Intelligence isn't
             | about hoarding secrets for the sake of such; it's about
             | getting information to people who can use it.
             | 
             | The political issue is that people assume that "secret =
             | higher quality" when there's no inherent value to secrecy.
             | So, spy agencies overinvest in secret-gathering, get a ton
             | of info, and are unable to do anything with it.
             | 
             | Meanwhile, if someone posts a tank manual on the WarThunder
             | gaming forums you can give that to every soldier that might
             | encounter that tank.
             | 
             | This is doubly important in tech because many big tech
             | companies play a significant role in national security but
             | cannot get intelligence that would help protect them, and
             | by extension, American interests.
        
         | everforward wrote:
         | I was getting kind of similar vibes. When they reveal the
         | story, it's basically "traceroute identifies 2 choke point
         | routers, and I DDoSed them with traffic".
         | 
         | That's cool and neat for guerrilla warfare, but I would assume
         | the NSA and DoD are already aware of that possibility? I
         | wouldn't even be surprised if they saw the DDoS happening on
         | network monitoring tools. Why clandestine meetings for that?
         | 
         | I get why the media is interested, it's an awesome story.
        
           | vasco wrote:
           | I imagine the NSA has a fully mapped out network layout for
           | most major foes continuously updated in some sort of
           | inventory database but for enemies, the same way they track
           | large military gear and in which bases its at for their
           | enemies. So yeah this seems very strange.
        
             | csunbird wrote:
             | NSA and similar agencies are probably even mad at him,
             | because he exposed the weakness that they could have
             | exploited when needed, which is probably now patched.
        
       | sim7c00 wrote:
       | i hope no poor IT engineer in NK and his family for 10
       | generations isnt going to be sent to workcamps because of this
       | joke.
        
         | codezero wrote:
         | The only person to blame for that behavior is the chaotic and
         | capricious dictator taking these actions against the population
         | he is oppressing.
        
       | 1234554321a wrote:
       | It's legal to hack North Korean infrastructure? Might be a good
       | way to test out your hacking skills.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | Sounds like a terrible way. One screw up, and then you have one
         | of the worst nations on earth in every metric with an axe to
         | grind against you. No thanks. Meetups in Vegas hotels seem a
         | lot safer and more fun to practice hacking skills.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | The thing I took away from this is that Putin is visiting a
       | country with two routers running their whole internet, and these
       | are his partners.
        
       | instagraham wrote:
       | How much exposure of the regular internet do North Korean hackers
       | have? What are the odds of turning them?
        
         | Sabinus wrote:
         | None. This was a middle finger to the NK State apparatus and
         | that's about all.
        
           | sureglymop wrote:
           | I think this was a pretty stupid joke. Especially if the OP
           | is an individual. Making a nation state your adversary as
           | merely a sole individual is something you never ever want to
           | even risk. Any rational human being (not just hacker) would
           | know or recognize that. Very often it is ego that directly
           | leads to doing irrational actions like this.
        
             | rpdillon wrote:
             | North Korea was already targeting him. The hack was in
             | retaliation.
        
           | codezero wrote:
           | Not true, there are/were North Korean hackers actively using
           | platforms like Hackerone and other lesser known SaaS that
           | haven't implemented KYC for training.
        
       | Sabinus wrote:
       | >Like many other US hackers and security researchers, Caceres had
       | been personally targeted by North Korean spies who aimed to steal
       | his intrusion tools. He had detailed that targeting to the FBI
       | but received no real government support. So he decided to take
       | matters into his own hands and to send a message to the regime of
       | Kim Jong Un: Messing with American hackers would have
       | consequences. "It felt like the right thing to do here," Caceres
       | told WIRED at the time. "If they don't see we have teeth, it's
       | just going to keep coming."
       | 
       | Indescribably based.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | Hardly. He's creating tools that interest state actors with no
         | real means of defending himself or the tools. If he's that
         | concerned he could just destroy the tools, but he wants to have
         | his cake and eat it too.
         | 
         | Then, in response to what should have been an obvious outcome
         | to his actions, he commits what should be described as a "crime
         | against humanity" against the entire communications
         | infrastructure of a foreign country with nuclear weapons.
         | 
         | There is nothing based here. This is stupid with a tinge of
         | greed and ego mixed in.
        
           | valianteffort wrote:
           | Glad someone is saying this. Some obnoxious moron putting
           | countless lives in danger to virtue signal has gotta be a new
           | low on the internet retard scale.
        
             | consumer451 wrote:
             | Whose lives did he put in danger?
             | 
             | Also, if the entirety of the US goverment will not protect
             | you from foreign state-sanctioned personal attacks, what
             | should one do? Just sit there and take it, even if one
             | could stop it?
             | 
             | > The State Department has a thing called "Rewards for
             | Justice" and they talk extensively about the NK problem and
             | how we're being hacked all the time. They pay millions for
             | information. I told them "I don't want any of your money, I
             | want you to know who I am [insert wired article here] and
             | that I can listerally make any attack coming from the
             | country North Korea stop in its tracks within minutes. Let
             | me grab their response:
             | 
             | > https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA
             | 
             | > Just be ready to be fucking infuriated. They have a bunch
             | of shit about how we need to take on the NK cyber threat. I
             | literally give them a SOLUTION and they say it's not within
             | their purview, go to other intelligence agencies. I told
             | them I FUCKING DID. No response since.
             | 
             | https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1divlp3/im_the_hacke
             | r...
        
               | valianteffort wrote:
               | If North Korea took down US infrastructure we would
               | consider it an act of war. The dange of exposing your
               | devices to the open internet should be well understood by
               | this so-called "hacker".
               | 
               | For him to unilaterally decide to commit an act of war
               | against a foreign nation means he should also be held
               | accountable for it in international criminal court.
               | 
               | Were this any other two nations you might have a
               | different tone. But these are the facts of the matter. He
               | played with fire and if he winds up dead because of it he
               | only has himself to blame. The only people I am concerned
               | about is anyone else now facing danger because of his
               | idiotic actions.
        
               | consumer451 wrote:
               | He did not commit an "act of war." He is an individual,
               | who tried to cooperate with his government and was
               | denied.
               | 
               | Meanwhile NK offense regularly attacks him on a nice day,
               | and on every other day installs ransomware on US hospital
               | infrastructure, putting actual lives at risk... All this
               | guy did was shut down their capability to do so.
               | 
               | I am unaware of any law that he broke. IMO, he also did
               | not do anything immoral.
        
               | mewpmewp2 wrote:
               | But foreign nations are already constantly trying to hack
               | each other.
        
               | akira2501 wrote:
               | > what should one do?
               | 
               | Examine how their own actions were a large part in
               | creating this particular outcome? Then question if
               | they're worth continuing under such circumstances?
               | 
               | > No response since.
               | 
               | Yea, maybe diplomats should lead the charge, and not self
               | important hackers with a desire to "shut down the
               | internet" in a fit of nerdy rage?
        
           | linearrust wrote:
           | > '"It felt like the right thing to do here," Caceres told
           | WIRED at the time. "If they don't see we have teeth, it's
           | just going to keep coming."'
           | 
           | Ask yourself. Do 'hackers' talk like this or
           | military/government employees?
           | 
           | Also ask yourself, is WIRED a 'hacker' friendly magazine or a
           | government affiliated state media?
           | 
           | Some top WIRED offerings
           | 
           | 'Former FBI Agent Explains How to Read Body Language...'
           | 
           | 'Former CIA Chief of Disguise Breaks Down 30 Spy Scenes
           | From...'
           | 
           | Not to mention reddit and reddit AMAs been used by government
           | agencies to push an agenda.
        
             | consumer451 wrote:
             | The actual content of his AMA makes the whole US government
             | apparatus look inept.
             | 
             | Ask yourself, is this something that a US government agent
             | would do?
        
             | akira2501 wrote:
             | > Ask yourself. Do 'hackers' talk like this or
             | military/government employees?
             | 
             | He said thought his tools would be "stolen?" Then this is a
             | lame manufactured pretext which makes it worse. It also
             | makes his actions and broadcasting them _more_ of a crime.
             | 
             | I'm not sure what your point is here.
        
       | imadj wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       | North Korea hacked him, so he took down its internet -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30180566 - Feb 2022 (238
       | comments)
        
       | operator2140 wrote:
       | Talk about delusions of grandeur. He knocked a few public facing
       | HTTP hosts offline, amazing! I can "a bring down North Korea's
       | internet" aka a few public hosts for a week too if I rent Lizard
       | Squads stresser for $400 a week. What's supposed to be impressive
       | about that?
        
         | resolutebat wrote:
         | No, he knocked out the two routers serving the _entire
         | country_. NK sites were inaccessible to the outside world, and
         | outside sites were inaccessible to NK.
        
       | voidUpdate wrote:
       | I'm a little confused by the news stories about this. Did he take
       | down their country-wide network, or just the few lines in and out
       | of the country? It seems like he just hit a few NK websites and
       | they everything stopped responding to him. Its like cutting the
       | uk-europe power links and saying you took down all of the UK's
       | power infrastructure
        
         | resolutebat wrote:
         | Only the lines in/out. NK has their own intranet which is
         | completely separate from the global internet, which was
         | presumably entirely unaffected by this.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)
        
           | voidUpdate wrote:
           | So not really much effect on the system then, overall
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | > North Koreans often find it more convenient to access sites
           | by their IP address rather than by domain name using Latin
           | characters
           | 
           | Don't blame them. Enom fee's are extortionate. And when DNS
           | breaks it still works.
        
       | efilife wrote:
       | I'm shocked that he shows his face and identifies himself
       | willingly
        
         | mianosm wrote:
         | Big "lifelock" vibes...and if I understand it correctly, that
         | lifelock character has had his identity successfully stolen and
         | impacted multiple times.
         | 
         | Sometimes the person who says "I'm really smart, like mensa
         | level", does some really ignorant and stupid things.
        
           | washadjeffmad wrote:
           | Sometimes you're also just hoping to find someone or
           | something out there that interests you.
        
         | jrexilius wrote:
         | I worked with him briefly on another project and he was pretty
         | comfy and open about the whole thing. In fact I think I
         | remember him mentioning doing a talk at a conference about it.
         | He's a genuinely nice guy and fairly laid back about things. NK
         | regime maybe is annoyed with him, but there is an almost zero
         | probability of them being able to do anything other than
         | digital harrassment to him.
        
           | influx wrote:
           | Considering they have performed assassinations outside of
           | their soil, I would be slightly concerned.
        
       | jrexilius wrote:
       | There are a couple good points in the linked Wired article, such
       | as the fact that the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and North Korea
       | are already escalating attacks on civillian and commercial
       | targets and our restraint isn't being matched.
       | 
       | I fully understand why the US and partner governments won't be
       | able to respond in kind, but there is certainly a lot more that
       | could be done in that domain.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | There are people that are in offensive cyber security in the US
         | government, but realistically they have a bit more moral
         | compass than the other state level actors that try and bring a
         | hospital to its knees for the grand goal of making america look
         | stupid for the nationalistic few who might actually care about
         | that sort of thing. There's a saying we have here about never
         | wrestling a pig in the mud: you will both be dirty but the pig
         | will like it.
        
           | whaleofatw2022 wrote:
           | > that try and bring a hospital to its knees for the grand
           | goal of making america look stupid for the nationalistic few
           | who might actually care about that sort of thing
           | 
           | That the public believes this is our biggest problem from an
           | international policy perspective... (as far as this topic,
           | that is)
           | 
           | These governments are turning a blind eye, if not quietly
           | supporting such because of the sheer economic and social
           | damage.
           | 
           | I know a local hospital group paid 22mil in ransom on top of
           | a lot of days where stuff barely got done.
           | 
           | Iirc United Health said a recent attack was probably 900
           | million in total costs to them?
           | 
           | It adds up.
        
           | redeeman wrote:
           | > but realistically they have a bit more moral compass than
           | the other state level actors
           | 
           | yeah, some of those governments have even admitted to spike
           | their own citizens with LSD to see what happens, and
           | COUNTLESS other things. oh....
        
             | rightbyte wrote:
             | When the Soviets shoot down airliners it is becouse they
             | are evil. When we do it is an accident. Just cheer the
             | parade...
        
         | sirspacey wrote:
         | Having worked in this space a while back, _every_ federal gov
         | digital service experiences nation-state intrusion attacks
         | daily and in the 1,000s on the low end. Our gov digital
         | infrastructure has been born under the weight of constant
         | attack.
         | 
         | Responding in kind has minimal value because it's not a
         | deterrent.
        
         | linearrust wrote:
         | > There are a couple good points in the linked Wired article,
         | such as the fact that the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and
         | North Korea are already escalating attacks on civillian and
         | commercial targets and our restraint isn't being matched.
         | 
         | Imagine what we are doing to the russians, chinese, iranians
         | and north koreans and everyone else. Far worse.
         | 
         | > I fully understand why the US and partner governments won't
         | be able to respond in kind
         | 
         | You really think our government isn't doing much worse to
         | russia, china, iran and north korea? You are talking about a
         | country that nuked civilians and is helping assist in a current
         | genocide...
         | 
         | '"It felt like the right thing to do here," Caceres told WIRED
         | at the time. "If they don't see we have teeth, it's just going
         | to keep coming."'
         | 
         | Who the fuck talks like that? Oh that's right, military or
         | government employees. Not hackers.
         | 
         | WIRED is where spooks and the fbi agents have their press
         | outings...
         | 
         | Some top WIRED offerings
         | 
         | 'Former FBI Agent Explains How to Read Body Language...'
         | 
         | 'Former CIA Chief of Disguise Breaks Down 30 Spy Scenes
         | From...'
         | 
         | It's almosts like the WIRED is part of state media.
        
       | JudasGoat wrote:
       | Wired story. https://archive.ph/vmQE3
        
       | rendall wrote:
       | >> _JDdoc: Once you knew you had access, did you make a point of
       | saying "I'm IN!" out loud, even if no one was in the room with
       | you?_
       | 
       | > _dotslashpunk: lol, no I only say that during either sex or
       | when I 'm able to join a meeting successfully with my microphone
       | and speakers actually working. Both are rare._
       | 
       | Talented _and_ funny. He 's wearing his new found fame well.
        
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