[HN Gopher] Ventoy: Remove BLOBs from the Source Tree
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       Ventoy: Remove BLOBs from the Source Tree
        
       Author : 6581
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2024-06-15 13:20 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | graton wrote:
       | From the very beginning I've been reluctant to use Ventoy. In the
       | beginning there were no instructions on how to build from source.
       | Then after that there were binary blobs that were used in the
       | build.
       | 
       | So far I've never used Ventoy due to these issues. The concept
       | sounds great though.
        
         | ungamedplayer wrote:
         | The attitude in the comments regarding the "look you can see
         | how it's built" is concerning.
         | 
         | A simple virus could easily backdoor every binary on the system
         | which built the file, rince and repeat.
         | 
         | Before anyone says that Linux virus do not exist, I have
         | written a handful, as I'm sure many others have. Do not assume
         | lack of observation to be confirmation of your view.
        
           | isoprophlex wrote:
           | Fascinating. If you feel like sharing, what was your motive?
           | Profit, research, the lulz?
        
             | worthless-trash wrote:
             | I have always been interested in how these things work, and
             | based an early one on Silvio Cesares paper (
             | https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/hh/virus/unix-viruses.txt
             | ) as I was associates with him while at university. This
             | virus was to confirm what was written in the paper.
             | 
             | The second I wrote was attempting to exploit the trust that
             | erlang VM's have with each other. I have rewritten a few in
             | various BEAM based languages, this was to give evidence to
             | management that security/protections should be put in place
             | for erlang clustering (rabbitmq, HA erlang, etc).
             | 
             | Another was for working for a large north american linux
             | vendors product security group, In an effort to know ones
             | enemy and the effort involved in some of the 'in-the-field'
             | backdoors that were found. In this case, I was reproducing
             | the "virus/RAT" (I use that term loosely) that contained
             | dirtycow exploit primitive in the wild. I also
             | reversed/reproduced/(exploited ?) their exploitable C&C
             | infrastructure. This information was handed over to the law
             | enforcement and I've never heard any more about it.
             | 
             | Each virus had its own reason, none of them escaped my
             | demonstrations.
        
         | fastily wrote:
         | Yeah that part has always been weird. I will say that it works
         | wonderfully, especially if you need to install windows from a
         | usb but only have computers running Linux/Mac available
        
       | brunoqc wrote:
       | 177 thumbs up on the issue and 0 replies from the maintainer in
       | those 2 months.
       | 
       | "concerning"
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | What alternatives are there?
       | 
       | No where near the ergonomics as far as I can tell, but with
       | containers, there's been an effort to make bootable containers. I
       | seem to remember there being some other options (I wanna say like
       | Wyvern or something like that was one but not finding it), but
       | the big obvious effort is bootc.
       | https://containers.github.io/bootable/projects.html . 38d old
       | thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40289120
        
         | kotaKat wrote:
         | The physical one, which is more reliable to boot because it's
         | emulating the actual USB-DVD/USB-HD/USB-flash interfaces when
         | you use it.
         | 
         | https://www.iodd.shop/IODD-ST400-USB-30-External-Encrypted-H...
         | 
         | I love using my IODD in "dual-mode" with Clonezilla. It exposes
         | a USB-DVD drive with an emulated Clonezilla DVD in it as well
         | as its' HDD storage so I can dump an image right to the hard
         | drive.
         | 
         | (Bonus points: I can then have Clonezilla bundle me a
         | clonezilla-iso package of my captured image, and save it back
         | into the ISO folder to boot from later!)
        
           | k8svet wrote:
           | I almost want one of these, except I have no use for it
           | nowadays. Ventoy didn't even work the one time I tried it,
           | probably because it couldn't hook nixos's initrd properly.
           | 
           | But also, I'm insanely frustrated that (1) Google doesn't
           | allow USB Gadget mode to do this from stock Android (2) the
           | app that appeared to work for LineageOS/rooted devices is
           | abandonware.
           | 
           | There's _no good reason_ why your phone can 't serve up ISOs
           | with gadget mode.
           | 
           | I already travel with my ancient Pixel 3a as a backup (which
           | has come in handy, clumsy me). It would be slick to have that
           | as a portable ISO host, _and_ backup phone. (Ignore the USB2
           | USB-C port, it 's _fine_.)
        
             | hddherman wrote:
             | I remember giving that a go many years ago. Not 100%
             | successful, but when it worked, it was fantastic. It would
             | be incredibly handy nowadays, especially for
             | troubleshooting use cases. OS installation, memtest,
             | clonezilla, portable Windows installation, and you'll
             | always have them with you since you're already carrying
             | your phone!
        
             | ryukafalz wrote:
             | This might not help you that much depending on your use
             | case but Ubuntu Touch can do this: https://open-
             | store.io/app/me.fredl.isodrive
             | 
             | ...and runs on the Pixel 3a: https://devices.ubuntu-
             | touch.io/device/sargo/
        
         | transpute wrote:
         | It's more work, but there are sample configs for grub2 to boot
         | multiple ISOs, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38663958
        
         | 20after4 wrote:
         | This looks promising: https://github.com/tjmnmk/gadget_cdrom
         | 
         | It's using a Raspberry Pi Zero to emulate a USB CD-ROM. A menu
         | on the device allows you to choose an ISO to boot from.
        
           | brunoqc wrote:
           | That project isn't very active. The last significant commit
           | was 3 years ago.
        
       | transpute wrote:
       | Why is Deepin the only distro worthy of a "Friendly Link" on the
       | Ventoy home page? Are they a sponsor of the project? Code
       | contributor? Preferred demo platform?
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20240614040917/https://ventoy.ne...
       | 
       | Ventoy developer longpanda offers tools for injection into Linux
       | and Windows ISOs, which work with the Ventoy injection plugin,
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38691857
       | 
       |  _> Deepin is a distribution developed in Wuhan, China by Deepin
       | Technology. Its homepage proclaims it  "the top Linux
       | distribution from China" ... The extensive EULA is uncommon for
       | the Linux space, and the privacy policy goes into some detail
       | about the types of information they collect - not just browser
       | history, but information on when you use your computer and the
       | applications installed on your system._
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | What underlying result are you hoping the long term fixation on
         | asking this question going to resolve? The developer is Chinese
         | and probably doesn't care what someone else's preferred distro
         | is or maybe they are associated with it - what difference does
         | it make to why it's on the site and why not just ask them
         | directly about it instead?
         | 
         | If you mean to just highlight the association with Deepin it
         | doesn't need to be guised as a question.
        
       | nazgu1 wrote:
       | Are there any real concerns about Ventoy and security? So ig I
       | use it to boot installer, the installed OS can be backdoored? Or
       | is it just some ,,possibility", but rather unreal?
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | You're going to have to weigh the Chinese origins against what
         | threats and risks you can not or will not accept.
         | 
         | Personally, I don't and use stuff like Rufus[1] instead.
         | 
         | [1]: https://github.com/pbatard/rufus
        
           | stragies wrote:
           | Rufus does not seem to have anywhere near the feature set of
           | Ventoy, so not really a replacement.
        
       | hddherman wrote:
       | The demand for a Ventoy-like tool is clearly there, but I hope
       | that one day we'll have an alternative that we can actually
       | trust. Until then it seems that having a small collection of USB
       | sticks is still the way to go, the inconvenience is preferable to
       | the whole installation getting compromised.
        
         | BobbyTables2 wrote:
         | The amount of "marketing" with the corresponding lack of
         | technical documentation also greatly disturbs me.
         | 
         | On one hand, it integrates a lot of open source components, but
         | there is enough custom stuff going on that I'm concerned.
         | 
         | Look how it boots a Linux live cd... Initramfs injection is
         | well used -- perfect for malware.
        
         | catlikesshrimp wrote:
         | I use and recommend ventoy for convenience. It is so
         | convenient. That is, good for nerds to play with hardware and
         | test distros. Not for end users.
         | 
         | For security, I always recommend Burning an ISO into a physical
         | optical disc. Check the ISO MD5 before burning. No thumbdrives.
         | 
         | Then pray god your Government only aproves sales of backdoored
         | hardware where you live. I recommend at least disabling
         | (pulling out) the build-in Network cards (yes, wifi/bt too) and
         | buying usb replacements.
        
       | trueismywork wrote:
       | What can ventoy do that `cp` cannot?
        
         | cl3misch wrote:
         | My reason to use Ventoy is the possibility to have multiple
         | ISOs on one single USB stick. Before I would have to dd the new
         | ISO to the stick, wiping what was there before. Effectively
         | this resulted in more writes to flash and ultimately multiple
         | broken USB sticks.
         | 
         | FWIW, I think you mean `dd`.
        
           | aidenscott2016 wrote:
           | You can cp the image to a block device and it will work
        
       | teraflop wrote:
       | Aside from the security issues, this project is pretty clearly
       | violating the GPL by distributing binary versions of other
       | people's code without including either the source code or the
       | original copyright notices.
        
       | svlasov wrote:
       | I wonder if somebody already tried to compare installations made
       | via Ventoy and not to spot any differences.
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-15 23:02 UTC)