[HN Gopher] Turning the Tables on AI
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       Turning the Tables on AI
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2024-06-14 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ia.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ia.net)
        
       | Evenjos wrote:
       | ...Or just ignore AI and use your human creativity to write an
       | amazing story. Something that is NOT a stale echo of another
       | story. Something that adds to a global conversation/debate or
       | examines a concept/premise a fresh new light, rather that
       | parroting ideas that have already been expressed ad nauseam.
       | 
       | And if you can't think of anything new? Maybe the creative fields
       | aren't for you. The world doesn't need more writers. There are
       | much easier ways to earn a living.
        
         | d3m0t3p wrote:
         | I don't agree, imo being asked questions still draws creativity
         | from yourself. It also help to clarify your thoughts. It's like
         | pair programming or rubberducking. The goal isn't to wait until
         | someone else tells you what to write.
         | 
         | But I agree that a lot of people are copy pasting from chatGPT
         | until it works
        
         | CuriouslyC wrote:
         | You can use your human creativity to come up with an outline of
         | a story, then have AI do first drafts of chapters according to
         | your outline. It's tremendously faster to go back and rewrite
         | the AI draft than it is to generate a first draft by hand and
         | to be honest for most writers the quality will be better.
         | 
         | That doesn't mean you don't painstakingly labor over
         | characters, story flow/pacing, events, meaning, etc. It just
         | means you're never stuck with writer's block - though you might
         | get stuck with storyteller's block, which AI can also provide
         | suggestions to help push past.
        
           | tivert wrote:
           | > You can use your human creativity to come up with an
           | outline of a story, then have AI do first drafts of chapters
           | according to your outline. It's tremendously faster to go
           | back and rewrite the AI draft than it is to generate a first
           | draft by hand and to be honest for most writers the quality
           | will be better.
           | 
           | It's also tremendously crappy and less creative. If all you
           | want to do is an outline, just publish that instead of
           | fattening it up with AI slop.
           | 
           | Also, your idea is great if you always want to be a terrible
           | writer and develop your writing skills poorly, and just care
           | about volume of output. IIRC, real writers say the writing
           | part isn't actually the hard part, but for some reason that's
           | what you want to automate. The hard (and creative) part is
           | the thinking you have to do when you're figuring out what to
           | write.
           | 
           | There are books I've read where I seriously wish the author
           | just published an outline, with maybe a bit more exposition
           | around world-building (yeah, they were sci-fi). And that was
           | human written stuff, reading AI slop would an even bigger
           | waste of time.
        
             | CuriouslyC wrote:
             | I've known literally dozens of published writers and I can
             | tell you that the reason that pro writers say that putting
             | the words down on paper is not the hard part is because
             | they've trained themselves to mostly vomit on the page,
             | then edit it to where it needs to be. Writers that try to
             | write good prose out of the gate get blocked, almost
             | always. It's a basic piece of tradecraft that people who
             | write for a living all know.
             | 
             | The process is outline, trash draft (who gives a shit who
             | does this) then refine until you can't bear to read your
             | work anymore and neither you or anyone you share the work
             | with has critical points that don't have very solid counter
             | arguments. Most wannabe writers have notebooks of
             | worldbuilding and story arcs but can't even get the trash
             | draft done.
        
       | pizzathyme wrote:
       | The first suggestion, ask the AI to ask you continual questions
       | to help you clarify your thinking, is a great technique. I have
       | seen this type of conversation partner very beneficial in my own
       | writing and planning.
        
         | sharkjacobs wrote:
         | In spring of 2023 OpenAI was introducing custom system messages
         | and one of the examples was a Socratic teacher who teaches by
         | asking you questions. I'd messed around with ChatGPT a bit but
         | that was the big moment that i realized these things were
         | really interesting.
        
           | appstorelottery wrote:
           | Socratic questioning is quite amazing, I created my own
           | prompting for this and found it to be invaluable in exploring
           | my beliefs.
        
       | jordemort wrote:
       | I thought this article was going to be a pun on the domain it's
       | hosted on.
        
         | peddling-brink wrote:
         | Isn't it?
        
       | memothon wrote:
       | I really like the point about getting AI to ask you questions.
       | 
       | The focus in the AI tutor world is basically a chatbot to ask
       | questions of. But if you're trying to learn something, it's
       | really helpful to have targeted questions asked of you!
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | Bonus answer data for AI training.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | I think this is very interesting.
       | 
       | As an expert, you can ask an intelligent layman to interrogate
       | you about some idea you have, or some essay you've drafted. To
       | answer their questions, you have to be clear, explicit, and avoid
       | jargon. That in turn forces you to think about what you mean.
       | 
       | You can then ask your layman to play back to you what they think
       | you said; they might play it back using a structure that is
       | clearer than the one you started with. [Edit] So someone who
       | doesn't know your subject-matter can still help improve both your
       | phrasing and structure.
       | 
       | FWIW, I suspect you'd get better results from an intelligent
       | (human) layman, than from a chatbot.
       | 
       | wrt. the examples: I didn't understand what I was seeing. Are
       | those snippets of real ChatGPT exchanges? I think they were [sort
       | of] promo material for iA Writer; which is not so much vapourware
       | as an imaginative fiction, used to make a point. Is that right?
        
         | 1oooqooq wrote:
         | > wrt. the examples: I didn't understand what I was seeing.
         | 
         | guess they should have hired an expert to write the article in
         | a way everyone could understand? :)
        
         | mattgreenrocks wrote:
         | Integrating some sort of AI into the creative process seems
         | like a way more useful approach than how we think of it today.
         | You can bounce ideas off them, have them steelman opposing
         | ideas, rip your ideas apart, or treat them as a muse.
         | 
         | Best part: it works today. No hopes and prayers for future AI
         | needed!
        
       | faitswulff wrote:
       | I was hoping this was about how LLMs can't read tables
       | accurately, but alas
        
       | krupan wrote:
       | Money quote at the end
       | 
       | "Enthusiasts present AI as a magic wand that can solve humanity's
       | biggest problems. In the meantime, it uses an exponential amount
       | of energy to make everything the same."
        
         | ugjka wrote:
         | It is a magic wand for CEO's who are looking for more reasons
         | to lay off more people
        
           | mattgreenrocks wrote:
           | Same CEOs who hire only the best now seem to magically forget
           | those standards when AI's involved.
        
       | vouaobrasil wrote:
       | The best way to turn the tables on AI is to take a hammer and
       | smash the server that runs it.
        
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