[HN Gopher] Oracle is shutting down its ad business
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       Oracle is shutting down its ad business
        
       Author : marban
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2024-06-14 17:39 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.adweek.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.adweek.com)
        
       | oneplane wrote:
       | Imagine what would happen if Oracle were to shut down its legal
       | business.
        
       | JacobHenner wrote:
       | Oracle had an ad business?
        
         | tanelpoder wrote:
         | Reminds me of the IBM Cloud slogan: "We have a cloud?!"
         | 
         | I think it was @quinnypig who coined it...
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | @quinnypig's tone[1] wears on me a bit. I don't mean that in
           | judgement, we all suffer from followers disease[2]. I just
           | don't like the effort of having to parse through the tone of
           | everything to figure out what's actually going on.
           | 
           | For instance, here, the _original_ B2B tech company, still
           | turning over billions upon billions, wouldn 't provide the
           | base unit of B2B tech?
           | 
           | Really?
           | 
           | Interrobang of surprise at that?
           | 
           | I don't think so. You'd have to be very young and made 0
           | effort into ex. checking IBM's business metrics over the
           | course of your lifetime.
           | 
           | [1] my current standard for this is "how long would you feel
           | people were talking about your efforts accurately, if they
           | talked the same way you do?" standards are leaky and hard to
           | word.
           | 
           | [2] The Algorithm has multiple tentacles, you end optimizing
           | for your most engaging behavior
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | I figured the IBM slogan would be something like "We have a
           | product people actually want to buy?"
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Oracle cloud has the most generous free tier ever. I've got a
           | 24GB ram VPS on it that I have run a minecraft server on for
           | the last year. Never paid a dollar for it.
        
         | mtillman wrote:
         | They bought a ton of adtech companies (primarily data
         | providers) in the 2010ish range. As one of my former colleagues
         | said, "the lawyers at Oracle considered cookies to be on-prem
         | software" which says a lot about Oracle's view of advertising.
         | If you're really successful, you either become a media company,
         | a bank, or a consulting firm. Oracle is firmly #3 while
         | companies like Apple figured out how to become a media company
         | and a bank. Though it's a little early to claim "figure out" I
         | suppose.
        
           | chucke1992 wrote:
           | How Oracle is able to survive these days? I guess the moat of
           | Oracle DB?
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | Consulting fees for said DB and escalating DB licensing
             | costs. They have an atrocious reputation and I'm honestly
             | amazed they invest as little into training sessions/cold
             | call advertising as they do.
        
             | cool_dude85 wrote:
             | I think they offer a lot of niche-market products that all
             | sort of work together as a "suite" with the core product of
             | course the db. I work in the utility industry and they are
             | present everywhere.
             | 
             | Of the products I'm immediately aware of, they have a
             | billing data system, a meter data system, and an enterprise
             | asset management system. They try to sell upper management
             | that all components work together easily, and because IT is
             | not our core business, this is an enticing pitch to the
             | chief level audience.
        
             | jl6 wrote:
             | They sell to execs, not to developers, and they have a lot
             | of certifications and assurances that make them "low risk"
             | to that audience.
        
             | skissane wrote:
             | Mostly due to acquisitions, they own a huge range of
             | business applications, both generic (such as Peoplesoft and
             | NetSuite) and industry-specific (e.g. Cerner in
             | healthcare). These kinds of apps tend to have high lock-in:
             | once your business is running on one or more of them,
             | migrating to something else can be an expensive
             | megaproject.
             | 
             | Also, historically they had a big push for their apps to
             | use their own tech products (DB and middleware), so the
             | tech side of the business benefited from the apps side.
             | Although, I remember when I worked there (6+ years ago),
             | they were trying to move away from that somewhat, and cloud
             | apps teams in particular were being given more freedom to
             | use whatever technology they thought was best for their
             | product rather than forced to adopt Oracle Whatever. Plus,
             | acquired products run on all kinds of different tech
             | stacks, since (at least my personal impression was) the
             | tech stack wasn't a huge concern in deciding what to
             | acquire
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | Even my power bill is generated by a platform called
               | OPower. The O stands for Oracle as far as I can tell
        
               | skissane wrote:
               | > The O stands for Oracle as far as I can tell
               | 
               | It doesn't. Opower was founded, under that name, in 2007.
               | Oracle acquired it in 2016. Any suggestions the O in its
               | name stands for "Oracle" are a retcon founded on a
               | coincidence
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Isn't it core of ad tech, that average public doesn't know who
         | got their data?
        
         | tcmart14 wrote:
         | Not gonna lie, I honestly have the same reaction.
        
         | Matsta wrote:
         | We use Oracle's Grapeshot (they acquired them in 2018) which is
         | a solid platform for audience targeting and brand safety for
         | ads.
         | 
         | The product is still working since the news broke this week,
         | and my assumption is they are going to try and sell it on as
         | it's still a solid product and performs wells and brings us
         | nice ROAS (Return on Ad Spend)
        
       | schnable wrote:
       | > In August 2022, Business Insider reported that Oracle
       | Advertising made $2 billion in revenue. At the time, revenue was
       | only growing by 2% a year and many employees had been laid off as
       | part of a reorganization in 2022, Business Insider reported.
       | 
       | Did Oracle correctly predict that the business was contracting
       | significantly and manage decline with layoffs? Or did they
       | overcompensate for slow growth and kill a $2 billion business?
        
         | bpodgursky wrote:
         | GDPR, death of 3rd party cookies, and mobile app data-sharing
         | crackdowns is a big obstacle for adtech. If they hadn't been
         | investing in server-side integrations, all $2B could easily
         | have been at technical risk.
        
           | 1oooqooq wrote:
           | knowing Oracle (and sap) they probably didn't had a
           | supplier/demand kinda of ad business. they probably bought
           | all the companies aggregating data in a way that was kosher
           | under gdpr and would corner the compliance market.
           | 
           | but then nobody cared for real about any of that and there
           | was never the market they hoped.
           | 
           | taking this out of my butt. but is very likely from the
           | little bits i had to interact on ad ecosystem from them
           | (mostly tools to companies in the compliance traffic
           | validations, which did take on in the late 2000s)
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | I'm sure there are one or two counterexamples but ad-tech
             | clients were very resistant to GDPR and nearly all violated
             | the requirements. Even to this day a lot of international
             | market advertising companies will adhere to GDPR in region
             | and violate it out of region - the site banners are a
             | separate issue and are usually rolled out by content
             | platforms to all clients for simplicity.
        
               | bpodgursky wrote:
               | > international market advertising companies will adhere
               | to GDPR in region and violate it out of region
               | 
               | Nobody cares what nonsense the EU tries to claim about EU
               | citizens living outside the EU. GDPR doesn't matter if
               | you're operating outside of the region.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | To clarify - a lot of advertisers have gone to the
               | trouble of writing one stack that's GDPR compliant and an
               | entirely different stack that's not GDPR compliant - if
               | you're outside the EU you're not going to get the one
               | that complies with GDPR. In the past with privacy
               | situations like these we'll usually see one large market
               | (CA, EU, NA) adopt more restrictive rules and the rest of
               | the world sort of get a free ride because it's not worth
               | the cost to build an entirely separate product for the
               | unrestricted markets - with advertising this has not
               | happened... if you're not in the EU you're not getting
               | any of those benefits.
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | > they probably bought all the companies aggregating data
             | in a way that was kosher under gdpr and would corner the
             | compliance market
             | 
             | They actually exited Europe because they didn't want to
             | comply with those laws. Combined with all the lawsuits
             | they're apparently facing, I think it's the opposite.
             | 
             | > but then nobody cared for real about any of that and
             | there was never the market they hoped.
             | 
             | Well, the industry moved to exclusively first-party data in
             | response to these laws, so yea, no one really cared for
             | their data anymore.
             | 
             | Oracle can run a big database of data in the cloud, they
             | clearly had no desire to maintain the data sources and
             | comply with laws when sharing. The engineering effort
             | Google/Facebook put into maintain their privacy compliance
             | is a lot higher than most people probably realize. Oracle
             | lawyers work on the offensive, not defensive.
        
         | virtuosarmo wrote:
         | Ouch - did not realize it was $2 billion in revenue in 2022.
         | They said earlier this week the business had declined to $300
         | million annually.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | Who ate their lunch?
        
             | throwaway-blaze wrote:
             | GDPR/CCPA were punch 1.
             | 
             | Apple killing IDFA was punch 2.
             | 
             | Ad dollars shifting massively to GOOG / META / AMZN meant
             | advertisers (and agencies) didn't need to have 3rd party
             | data anymore to power campaigns ... they could use the
             | platform's great data and match their 1st party customer
             | data to it.
             | 
             | Oracle bought great data companies but didn't have any 1st
             | party ad inventory to use the data with, and they got boxed
             | out. If they had acquired TikTok back when Trump wanted
             | them to, it might have saved their data biz.
        
               | smcin wrote:
               | Why did Oracle not acquire TikTok (US)? It seemed like a
               | good move for them.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | Why would China want to sell it? I think they would
               | rather shut it down than give up control.
               | 
               | It would be like Russia demanding the US to sell of Voice
               | of America during the Cold War.
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | You're missing the lede:
         | 
         | > The business generated $300 million in revenue in the 2024
         | fiscal year, down from a reported $2 billion in 2022
         | 
         | Followed closely by news that they shut down in Europe over
         | European data laws, and they're the focus of class action law
         | suits over their data privacy policies.
         | 
         | They also spent billions buying their way into this business,
         | so its not clear that $2Bn/yr in _revenue_ was ever profitable
         | after accounting for their costs for prior acquisitions.
        
       | chucke1992 wrote:
       | It had one? lol
        
       | Matsta wrote:
       | It is pretty sad to hear - we've had solid results with Oracle's
       | Grapeshot (segment audiences and brand safety for programatic
       | advertising).
       | 
       | We were meant to meet them in person next week but got cancelled
       | at the last minute.
       | 
       | I've heard all products will run normally, and everyone still has
       | a job. However, they don't know what will happen in the near
       | future. I assume Oracle is trying to flip off all parts of the
       | business; if not, they'll shut them down.
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | Really, I've heard their audience segments were garbage
        
           | Matsta wrote:
           | Fair enough. We run about 10 different providers and
           | automatically scale spend on who works best. Grapeshot is
           | usually up in the top 5 for us.
        
           | soared wrote:
           | They were just a dumb pipe for most of their segments, but
           | the bluekai branded segments were better than the completely
           | unverified nonsense you might accidentally buy if you weren't
           | careful. Addthis was always garbage, dlx is good, etc. just a
           | process of vetting vendors which the hotline used to be able
           | to help with.
        
       | dotcoma wrote:
       | Why did Oracle set up an ad business in the first place ??
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | Because it was lucrative? Oracle have some expertise handling
         | large amounts of data, and also have easier access to large
         | corporations which other players do not necessarily enjoy. It
         | sort of worked, the revenue was in the billions.
        
           | Gormo wrote:
           | Why didn't they start a streaming TV service or open a chain
           | of fast-food restaurants? Those things are lucrative too, and
           | also benefit from competence at handling large volumes of
           | data.
        
             | steve_adams_86 wrote:
             | Those ideas might be missing the networking part. I'm not
             | sure if their people know the right people. I'm also not
             | confident their track record would inspire confidence in
             | their ability to execute on that type of service. It
             | doesn't seem well aligned. Ads on the other hand aren't so
             | far fetched.
        
       | riiii wrote:
       | I would never have advertised a single iota with oracle. The fear
       | of having my pants audited off would have caused premature death.
        
         | soared wrote:
         | They were just a pipe, you had to spend dollars through a
         | different vendor and used oracle stuff as an add on.
        
       | yegle wrote:
       | I guess we can remove a few hostnames from adguard/pihole
       | blocklist now?
        
       | waynesonfire wrote:
       | Same thing that happened to AT&T.
        
       | chevman wrote:
       | Anyone know if Eloqua is included in this spin down?
       | 
       | https://www.oracle.com/cx/marketing/automation/
        
         | soared wrote:
         | From what I've read they haven't discussed how the spin down
         | will affect any of their products.
        
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