[HN Gopher] Banana giant Chiquita held liable by US court for fu...
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       Banana giant Chiquita held liable by US court for funding
       paramilitaries
        
       Author : no_exit
       Score  : 171 points
       Date   : 2024-06-11 14:58 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | thebeardisred wrote:
       | It's about time one of these Chiquita (ex United Fruit Company,
       | Cuyamel Fruit Company, and others) / Dole (ex Standard Fruit
       | Company) are held liable.
       | 
       | [1]:https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food-drink/story-bananas-
       | ban...
       | 
       | [2]:https://growjungles.com/united-fruit-company-in-costa-rica/
       | 
       | [3]:https://www.biggerlifeadventures.com/chiquita-bananas-cia-
       | fu...
       | 
       | [4]:https://history.wsu.edu/rci/sample-research-project/
       | 
       | Edit: formatting
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | Offhand, I agree with the judgment. But I am also gratified that
       | the term "Banana giant" led off a Hacker News title. Surprisingly
       | it wasn't on my 2024 HN bingo card.
        
         | iwontberude wrote:
         | "Giant banana" almost hit, I won't lose hope now.
        
       | sofixa wrote:
       | I'm curious about why nobody from Chiquita went to prison for
       | financing a terrorist group.
       | 
       | Random Afghans and Iraqis were kidnapped for Guantanamo or
       | outright murdered for less.
        
         | hulitu wrote:
         | > I'm curious about why nobody from Chiquita went to prison for
         | financing a terrorist group.
         | 
         | That's not how democracy works. /s
         | 
         | Companies do not have to obey the law and, when they are
         | caught, nobody goes to jail. They just need to pay some
         | protection money.
         | 
         | Want to be a criminal without fear of prosecution ? Join a
         | company, preferably on a management position.
        
         | lazide wrote:
         | Because they were working in the vein of manifest destiny/US
         | gov't interests.
         | 
         | The CIA helped them, by overthrowing at least one gov't. [https
         | ://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%2527%...]
         | 
         | Money has always been a national interest for every gov't
         | everywhere.
        
         | jjk166 wrote:
         | This was a civil case, seeking damages for actions that
         | occurred over 2 decades ago, it's unlikely anyone currently
         | with the company was sufficiently high ranking then to be
         | considered personally responsible.
         | 
         | For the 2007 criminal case, the company came to the department
         | of justice and disclosed the payments, saying they had been
         | made under threat of violence. Specifically the AUC was
         | threatening physical harm to employees of a Chiquita subsidiary
         | in Columbia. The department of justice appears to have accepted
         | that the payments were made under duress, but did not recognize
         | that as a sufficient excuse, and decided to prosecute anyways.
         | The company reached a plea agreement.
         | 
         | Honestly, it seems like the justice department came down pretty
         | hard. Obviously giving money to terrorist groups under any
         | circumstances shortly after 9/11 would be highly scrutinized,
         | and the company could have dropped the columbian subsidiary,
         | which they wound up doing eventually anyways, instead of
         | continuing to pay the protection racket. But still it seems
         | like they were victims in this too.
        
           | pyuser583 wrote:
           | This is really important context. As is the relatively small
           | amount of money paid.
           | 
           | It's also strongly analogous to an issue faced in tech:
           | whether to pay the demands or ransomware gangs.
           | 
           | If the ransomeware gang has ties to terrorism, it's a crime
           | to pay the ransom.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _curious about why nobody from Chiquita went to prison for
         | financing a terrorist group_
         | 
         | It looks like the people who could be held individually
         | criminally liable were in Colombia [1]. (I also imagine
         | Chiquita gets points for notifying the DoJ versus getting
         | caught.)
         | 
         | > _Random Afghans and Iraqis were kidnapped for Guantanamo or
         | outright murdered for less_
         | 
         | To be fair, there is a world of difference between financing a
         | foreign terrorist group and financing one that is attacking
         | Americans. (That and we're cavalier with the lives of South
         | Americans.)
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2007/March/07_nsd_161...
        
           | adhamsalama wrote:
           | And why were those Iraqis attacking American soldiers?
           | Perhaps because the US invaded Iraq?
        
             | NicoJuicy wrote:
             | You're claiming that Iraqi's were so happy under Saddam's
             | reign, that some even fought for him?
        
               | cardiffspaceman wrote:
               | Never underestimate people defending their home. Remember
               | the Serbs going out with targets painted on their
               | t-shirts when NATO (read "USA") was bombing Belgrade? Of
               | course that was the 90's.
        
               | NicoJuicy wrote:
               | First protest of Iraq was in 1991, but a decades long
               | dictator ofc. has severe military superiority.
               | 
               | A lot of Iraqi's were a big fan of toppling Saddam.
               | 
               | Note : not saying it was a good idea with what we know
               | now.
               | 
               | And about Serbia. The bombing from "NATO" with a focus on
               | military targets made it possible for it's population to
               | overthrow Milosevic by the citizens a year later.
               | 
               | The boots on the ground in this case were the Serbs
               | themselves. From my POV, NATO only provided air-support
               | for them.
        
         | zardo wrote:
         | An anti-communist paramilitary in Columbia? They aren't exactly
         | going to top the US most wanted list.
        
         | frontalier wrote:
         | you might find the answer to this when looking out the window
         | of the train as you head to the yearly jazz festival by the
         | lake
        
         | riddley wrote:
         | I think we can all be happy with the fine that's less than a
         | hundredth of a percent of their annual income that they'll have
         | to pay. Justice is served.
        
       | mediumsmart wrote:
       | War is a racket and governments are the shadows of corporations.
       | 
       |  _we, the people, are liable_
        
       | rgovostes wrote:
       | See also the Banana Massacre instigated by the United Fruit
       | Company against plantation workers making outrageous demands like
       | limiting the work week to 6 days. 100 years later, that company
       | operates under the name Chiquita.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre
        
         | greenhearth wrote:
         | Documented in the famous Neruda poem
        
           | dpig_ wrote:
           | And alluded to by Marquez.
        
         | rflrob wrote:
         | Also the Guatemalan coup that was heavily lobbied for by the
         | United Fruit Company.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%2527%...
        
           | slantedview wrote:
           | "The United Fruit Company (UFC), whose highly profitable
           | business had been affected by the softening of exploitative
           | labor practices in Guatemala, engaged in an influential
           | lobbying campaign to persuade the U.S. to overthrow the
           | Guatemalan government."
           | 
           | It's amazing how decades later, they heirs of United Fruit
           | Company are still using violence as a tool for increasing
           | profit. This is what happens when individuals are not
           | criminally prosecuted for bad conduct. I'm sure it will
           | happen again.
        
         | Obeehhh wrote:
         | Absolute capitalist classic.
        
       | debo_ wrote:
       | The banana republic jokes just write themselves!
        
         | frontalier wrote:
         | check out where they're headquartered
        
         | stonogo wrote:
         | Does it count as a joke when the term was originated to
         | describe governments who enabled this exact behavior from this
         | exact company?
        
       | lbsnake7 wrote:
       | Great documentary that Frontline made about something similar
       | called Firestone and the Warlord. Firestone paid warlord Charles
       | Taylor money to 'protect' their rubber plantations (essentially
       | extortion), this money ended up providing him almost all of his
       | funding during the Liberian civil war and made him a major
       | player. He is now in prison for war crimes for what he did during
       | this period.
        
       | njovin wrote:
       | They have been fined $38m for killing 8 people, which amounts to
       | a tad over 1% of their 2023 revenue.
       | 
       | I'm very happy that an example is being made of them to warn
       | other corporations that committing murder to protect your profits
       | may cause a slight dip in your next earnings report.
        
         | evulhotdog wrote:
         | Of course it's not nearly as much as it should be, but it is
         | certainly a step in the right direction.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | Incrementalism normalizes dystopia, in my view; this becomes
           | just another contingency that can be budgeted for.
           | 
           | Imagine, by contrast, the impact that executing one Chiquita
           | executive would have.
        
             | evulhotdog wrote:
             | I don't know if I necessarily agree with eye for an eye
             | mentality, but risk of prison or enough money that it makes
             | you actually consider your decisions, seems like a better
             | path. The goal being that it is enough so that it cannot
             | and should not be planned for and can't be covered by
             | insurance or similar.
        
             | debo_ wrote:
             | Perhaps they would hire two executives.
        
       | msarrel wrote:
       | Better call out the Marines to enforce the US interests in
       | bananas.
        
       | Gualdrapo wrote:
       | Allegedly also Coca-Cola, Drummond and even some local companies
       | like Postobon have been involved with paramilitary groups and
       | sponsored crimes against civilians - and haven't faced any
       | consequences. But this is a good precedent.
        
       | password_ wrote:
       | The US government would never do such a thing.
        
       | banku_brougham wrote:
       | Ive been learning about colonialsm and this shows up on HN
       | 
       | edit: I just learned about Ken Saro-Wiwa
        
       | buildsjets wrote:
       | My family home is built on the former estate of Minor Cooper
       | Keith, a founder and former VP of United Fruit, who did many
       | similar horrible things to people in Central and South America. I
       | learned this while researching the name of the waterway behind
       | our house, called "Keith Canal". You can see the history of the
       | development in historic maps from 1829 thru 1976.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_Cooper_Keith
       | 
       | https://westisliphistoricalsociety.org/index.php/archives/ma...
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | none of that Wikipedia article reflect the comments here..
         | maybe take a minute to organize some references and edit? a new
         | section on "controversy" might fit
        
       | advisedwang wrote:
       | The Alien Tort Statue [1], the reason this case [2] is in the US
       | at all has sometimes been used for significant environmental and
       | social justice global legal activism. Because of this, it is in
       | the sights of the conservative legal movement. Sadly I suspect
       | this case may end up at the supreme court and end up another
       | victim of the removal of redress for the evil of the powerful.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/alien_tort_statute
       | 
       | [2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4232180/in-re-
       | chiquita-...
        
       | dventimi wrote:
       | Through at least two administrations, Republican and Democrat,
       | Bush and Obama, the U.S. has funded anti-leftist militarism in
       | Colombia, to the military and to paramilitary groups like AUC.
       | It's not just a fruit company and it's not just a relic from the
       | past.
       | 
       | http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2013/12/21/co...
        
         | xray2 wrote:
         | I cant take you seriously if you can't spell Colombia correctly
        
           | Obeehhh wrote:
           | Also calling it anti-leftist is just poor framing,
           | paramilitar organizations have very close ties with the
           | right-wing politicians here.
        
             | dventimi wrote:
             | > _" Paramilitary organizations have very close ties with
             | the far-right politicians here."_
             | 
             | Does that make it more likely those paramilitary
             | organizations are on the left, or on the right?
        
               | digging wrote:
               | I think they're implying that anti-leftist isn't the same
               | as far-right. A centrist could in theory function as an
               | anti-leftist.
        
               | dventimi wrote:
               | Are there anti-leftist militarists in Colombia who are
               | centrist?
        
           | ajhurliman wrote:
           | Maybe they meant the university
        
           | dventimi wrote:
           | I apologize. I sometime introduce typos, especially when
           | using autocomplete on tiny mobile keyboards. I'm sure it's
           | just me and never happens to anybody else.
           | 
           | Anyway, I corrected that typo. Please, oh please, take me
           | seriously now.
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-12 23:01 UTC)