[HN Gopher] OpenAI Selects Oracle Cloud Infrastructure to Extend...
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       OpenAI Selects Oracle Cloud Infrastructure to Extend Microsoft
       Azure AI Platform
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2024-06-11 20:40 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.oracle.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.oracle.com)
        
       | yoyohello13 wrote:
       | Maybe we can just start referring to them as the "Axis of Evil"
       | or the "Unholy triumvirate".
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | Oracle Cloud is a bad product and I wouldn't recommend. I'm
       | guessing Oracle practically gifted OpenAI compute to make this
       | possible and that this announcement is the whole purpose (i.e.
       | "look at us, we're equal to AWS/Azure!!! OpenAI runs here!!!").
       | 
       | Oracle and Google Cloud have been doing this stuff _constantly_.
        
         | mikeocool wrote:
         | Given that Microsoft and Google are already giving away huge
         | amounts of compute to AI companies, Oracle must be outright
         | paying them to do this.
        
         | crowcroft wrote:
         | I've found Oracle's free tier quite generous. I guess OpenAI
         | does as well.
        
           | cjk2 wrote:
           | It's sort of like a crack dealer's free tier. You know it's
           | going to end miserably but you just can't help yourself.
        
             | sourcecodeplz wrote:
             | Not necessarily, use it for testing only (not production)
             | and you will be fine.
        
               | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
               | I run a little kube cluster on it that serves as the
               | brain for my home lab on it and it's been cranking along
               | just fine for the better part of half a year. It's all
               | IaC and ephemeral so if it died tomorrow I could just
               | restart it. Quite generous for $0
        
               | ls612 wrote:
               | Can you feasibly run a homelab C&C server on the free
               | tier of any of the big 3?
        
               | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
               | It's possible to run a single node cluster on GCP for
               | almost free, especially if you're creative with spot
               | instance. But afaik, not really otherwise. OCI is far and
               | away more generous, giving you 4 dedicated always on
               | nodes, which is just enough to run a decent mini cluster
        
               | delecti wrote:
               | I know you're talking about the cloud offerings, but the
               | idea of using just a little bit of crack as "not
               | production" is hilarious to me.
        
             | ignoramous wrote:
             | > _a crack dealer 's free tier_
             | 
             | Pretty sure GCP & AWS employ a _lot_ of ex-Oracle people.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | I also have a couple of ARM servers there, nothing fancy.
             | The internal networks and machine are extremely snappy for
             | what they provide. Even the containers I threw in run
             | great.
             | 
             | If you need small needs, it's a good provider. The
             | dashboard is very convoluted, though.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Yeah, I use their free tier. At $0 it's the best offering.
           | But I end up with racknerd for just raw Linux machine that I
           | manage myself with `iptables` and friends.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I'm guessing the free tier available to OAI is not the same
           | free tier available to anyone else.
        
           | bn-l wrote:
           | I've heard of people being cut off without warning on the
           | free tier.
        
             | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
             | Yes. Not only are there bad actors, but oracle aggressively
             | culls underutilized instances. If you sign up and attach
             | your billing info you won't get that happening to you. I
             | know, it sounds silly, but once I did that I had no issues.
             | It's difficult to even get instances provisioned if you
             | don't do that, it's really only possible by having a script
             | that runs and continually retries/requests instances. I've
             | had my billing info tied to it and never had an issue with
             | being charged the entire half year I've been using it.
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | > _" look at us, we're equal to AWS/Azure!!! OpenAI runs
         | here!!!"_
         | 
         | Possible, as they have lost deals even in countries where they
         | enjoy MFN: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/oracle-
         | ceo-confus... / https://archive.is/zO35B
        
         | qudat wrote:
         | We run https://pico.sh on their free tier, can't complain about
         | our experience.
        
       | cjk2 wrote:
       | Oracle evil - check. Microsoft privacy violating mess - check.
       | Azure rolling disaster zone - check.
       | 
       | What could possibly go wrong?
        
       | smkelly wrote:
       | Oracle lawyers, ever waiting to pounce on new prey, extend their
       | claws.
        
         | rcv wrote:
         | Oracle lawyers- Tucking their pencils away- Extend their sharp
         | claws
        
       | dehugger wrote:
       | God speed, OCI is a pile of garbage. Once had them delete every
       | single one of our production servers in the middle of the work
       | day (in the hundreds of instances) due to an uncaught billing
       | error.
       | 
       | Triage took over 3 three days and there was a significant amount
       | of lost customer data and financial impact.
       | 
       | I wouldn't recommend OCI if they were the last cloud provider on
       | earth.
        
       | behnamoh wrote:
       | Lots of negative comments about Oracle. If they're so bad, how
       | come PMs and higher ups keep choosing them? Is there no
       | resistance voice from engineers?
       | 
       | Edit: I'm getting downvoted by engineers. I guess they have to
       | vent somehow... How about take your downvote to the PM who's
       | going to sign a new Oracle contract?
        
         | cjk2 wrote:
         | From experience working with these people for many years, it is
         | mostly because they are fuckwits. No joke. Literally no
         | objectivity or capability to reason about logically. The first
         | vendor that gets in the door and shows them a shiny turd and
         | they sign a contract which is difficult to get out of.
         | 
         | Anyone who is technical in those orgs is either very junior and
         | stepped straight in a cow shit out of college, has a pension
         | they are counting down to or is so utterly disinterested that
         | they don't give a shit about anything other than the coffee
         | break or the end of the day.
         | 
         | My capacity in those orgs was the overpaid consultant who came
         | in, looked at what they were doing and told them they were
         | stupid in a huge word document and then leave with a pocket
         | full of cash with no changes ever being made.
        
         | causalmodels wrote:
         | A good sales person on a golf course with a VP can do a lot of
         | damage
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | s/golf course/[strip club|ski/beach resort|yacht vacay]/ as
           | suits the particular VP
        
         | numbsafari wrote:
         | You think that voice carries more weight than a golf junket?
        
         | 7thpower wrote:
         | Oracle is in the business of selling career insurance for
         | executives.
        
         | sourcecodeplz wrote:
         | I think it is because they are significantly cheaper than the
         | alternatives.
        
           | dsr_ wrote:
           | Oracle? Oracle is the most expensive at everything.
           | 
           | There were consultants specializing in optimizing Oracle
           | bills way before they existed for AWS.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | Used to work at Oracle. They keep winning deals because at the
         | C-level it's about:
         | 
         | - enterprise-grade features
         | 
         | - completeness of vision
         | 
         | - long term viability
         | 
         | - dependable support
         | 
         | - availability of talent
         | 
         | And no, normally they don't want to hear from engineers.
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | Believe somewhere in the analysis of these million-dollar
           | deals, we missed one Harvard classmate doing a solid to
           | another.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I was once apart of a team evaluating storage solutions from
           | multiple vendors. We had rows of racks dedicated to each
           | vendor. Between production IT, production engineers, and even
           | the operators doing the daily grind, there was a clear loser
           | and 2 very good/close winners. We ran our stress tests for
           | months to generate all sorts of useful metrics. Then,
           | corporate comes along and makes a massive PR release about
           | the new deal they just signed with the absolute worst vendor.
           | 
           | Eventually, after production came to a grinding halt because
           | the storage solution did not work, there was no follow up PR
           | campaign about the abject failure of that partnership.
           | C-suite people can fuck up the easiest decisions because of
           | perks/kick backs.
        
           | NovemberWhiskey wrote:
           | But OCI falls down on essentially _all_ that stuff vs AWS or
           | even GCP.
           | 
           | OCI is cheap; that's the USP.
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | Selling into the enterprise is about doing your research on who
         | the key people are, who has the purse strings, what the drivers
         | for that company are, and what your competitors are doing with
         | pricing, bundling, and their pitches.
         | 
         | Very little of this involves talking to code monkeys, unless
         | there's a technical person who is already well-regarded enough
         | that general managers, C*O, and the like, listen to their
         | opinions.
         | 
         | The engineers in the company are usually sufficiently
         | contemptuous of "politics" and "people pleasing" and "bean
         | counters" and "marketing" that they aren't part of those
         | discussions, because they've already made it clear that they
         | hold the people making the calls in contempt. Oracle sales
         | people are more than happy to fill the gap.
        
         | yoyohello13 wrote:
         | The amount of shit software my org has bought with seemingly no
         | technical people in the meetings in mindboggling. For some
         | reason the MO seems to be to bring the tech people in after the
         | purchase to 'integrate'. Maybe because managers know the
         | technical people would object and they just want to buy a
         | solution now so it seems they are worth the inflated salary.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | Oracle's database is actually pretty good, if price is no
         | object and you've got a team of competent DBAs looking after
         | it, who'll lock you out of most of the footguns. Particularly a
         | few decades ago, when MySQL's query planning was very basic.
         | 
         | And sure, once you're locked in they'll jack the price up more
         | and more every year - or worse, your business will grow and the
         | bosses will try to control costs by not licensing more CPUs.
         | But it's not your money, and you can always just go work
         | somewhere else, whereupon the vendor lock-in isn't your
         | problem.
        
       | crowcroft wrote:
       | Does Apple still have a close relationship with Oracle? I wonder
       | if this is related.
        
       | 7thpower wrote:
       | So, I guess OpenAI really is evil.
        
       | colinrand wrote:
       | This is super sketch for others on the platform. First hand
       | experience from using OCI - they have severe capacity constraints
       | and need _lots_ of heads up when you want to increase your usage
       | of things. Auto scaling it ain't.
       | 
       | So if OpenAI starts drawing significant resources from their
       | cloud hardware, good luck gettin your own. Including me :)
        
       | pubg wrote:
       | Lots of shade being thrown, I'm surprised at all the toxic bile.
       | All cloud providers are fundamentally in a race to the bottom for
       | commoditization of compute infrastructure. The competition should
       | be desirable.
       | 
       | Anyhow, if I had to guess why ClosedAI made this decision, well
       | there are lots of big companies who like Oracle Cloud because if
       | the spend is sufficient, Oracle will literally build and then
       | support whatever configurations you want in any region across the
       | entire globe. Good luck getting that level of care from AWS,
       | Azure, or Goggle.
       | 
       | In my experience OCI is still better than GCP, not that it's
       | really saying much, AWS has been the "best" IME :)
       | 
       | Clouds can't love you back.
        
         | tuckerconnelly wrote:
         | What are your gripes with GCP? I've been using it for every
         | project for a while, and am super happy with it, especially
         | GKE.
        
           | pubg wrote:
           | Maybe you weren't burned by the near periodic massive GCP
           | outages from 2019 - 2023. More power to you, but I'm not
           | signing up for more of that.
        
         | bavell wrote:
         | 6+ years on GCP across half a dozen kubernetes clusters here...
         | very little to complain about IME. Have fun with Oracle.
        
       | jwildeboer wrote:
       | Big AI is just the same old boys club that governed IT since the
       | 1980s, it seems.
        
       | pojzon wrote:
       | If we ever get skynet from it - never expected less from Oracle
       | EvilCorp Co.
        
       | bastard_op wrote:
       | At this point it's only a matter of who's got those damn gpu's
       | and enough of them, or not, willing to deal with, eww, Oracle
       | even. Since already in bed with Microsoft, why serve a lesser
       | evil - upgrade to Oracle.
        
       | virtuosarmo wrote:
       | On their conference call tonight, Larry Ellison indicated Oracle
       | will be building a dedicated data center for OpenAI to use for
       | training, with 1 GW of power, and its own power plant and DLC.
       | Stocked with newest NVIDIA chips.
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-11 23:01 UTC)