[HN Gopher] New GitHub Organization for the Swift Project
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New GitHub Organization for the Swift Project
Author : inickt
Score : 98 points
Date : 2024-06-10 21:10 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.swift.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.swift.org)
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| I really wish this now makes Swift worthwhile outside of the
| Apple ecosystem. A bit like Go.
| bsaul wrote:
| That would be great indeed. I've sayed this a few times, but i
| believe swift's only chance to become mainstream is now, and
| only by growing outside of apple.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| It was talked about in the Platform keynote (not the main
| keynote) - they're doing a lot of crossplatform work, off the
| top of my head:
|
| * Enhancement of VSCode support (and any editor that integrates
| LSP)
|
| * Increasing supported linux and windows platforms
|
| * Increasing support for constrained environments (embeded?
| dunno)
|
| * Continued support of community products like Vapor (web
| framework)
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Why would that make it more worthwhile? What are the compelling
| reasons to use Swift instead of Go?
| codetrotter wrote:
| For example if you already know, and use, Swift because you
| are an app developer who's been developing apps for iOS,
| iPadOS, or macOS, then improved cross-platform support would
| be very desirable.
| bobajeff wrote:
| >This change will allow Swift to expand its reach to more
| platforms and use cases, sparking fresh possibilities and
| broadening Swift's impact across the technology landscape.
|
| How does having a GitHub organization tangibly impact the implied
| goal of making Swift more impactful outside of apples devices?
| NewJazz wrote:
| Having non-apple members in the language organization in GitHub
| seems like a nice improvement.
| threecheese wrote:
| It does sound a bit silly on its face; apparently the
| repositories are in Apple's org which limits access to GitHub-
| isms to members of Apple GH teams, and so it sounds reasonable
| if their goal is to extend the community beyond those limits on
| the GH platform.
| sunshowers wrote:
| Beyond the pure signaling value, I would imagine Apple has
| internal GitHub tooling which maintains particular invariants
| for repos hosted under github.com/apple. Those invariants can
| potentially be relaxed or discarded altogether for a different
| org much easier. (Special-casing particular repos within the
| repos is technically possible, but (a) is harder and (b)
| probably runs into policy issues with legal.)
| talldayo wrote:
| They're certainly wearing their heart on their sleeve there.
| lima wrote:
| GitHub org permissions aren't very granular, especially with an
| org that is tied to enterprise SSO. Makes it hard to grant
| certain permission to outside members.
| tosh wrote:
| They grow up so fast.
|
| July 2010 started, June 2014 publicly released (!) feels like
| yesterday.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_(programming_language)
| songbird23 wrote:
| hope this works out! i really wanna work with swift outside
| xcode, i want it in vim
| acedTrex wrote:
| they showed swift in neovim in the keynote when they talked
| about LSP support
| mdhb wrote:
| I got to be honest every time I look over to the Swift/iOS
| development ecosystem I'm shocked at the amount of nonsense
| they have to deal with.
|
| - Xcode is terrible
|
| - Documentation is barely existent
|
| - you can't really reuse your code in any other context
|
| - you have to pay them money to even release your software
|
| - they steal 30% of your revenue
|
| - they reserve the right to shut you down at any point, for any
| reason and provide almost zero recourse.
|
| I get why people had to use it historically but it seems like a
| really bad choice to try and build any kind of reliable future
| on top of in 2024.
| jshen wrote:
| What does this have to do with swift?
| mdhb wrote:
| It's at the core of the ecosystem and has basically zero
| other well supported use cases or successes to point to.
| MBCook wrote:
| > Documentation is barely existent
|
| Depends on the thing. And there is a large community with
| examples online, which helps.
|
| > you can't really reuse your code in any other context
|
| Not everyone cares. If I'm only targeting an iOS app the fact
| the code doesn't run on Android or Windows isn't a problem
| for me.
|
| > you have to pay them money to even release your software
|
| On Apple's App Store, sure. Or if you want your stuff signed.
| If you want to release open source or don't mind shipping
| unsigned stuff it's free free free.
|
| > they steal 30% of your revenue > they reserve the right to
| shut you down at any point, for any reason and provide almost
| zero recourse.
|
| Only if you're in their App Store or want your stuff signed.
|
| > I get why people had to use it historically but it seems
| like a really bad choice to try and build any kind of
| reliable future on top of in 2024.
|
| The bargain is the same as it ever was. I'm OK with it. I
| made stuff in Xcode for my Mac just for me for a long time
| without hassle or paying a cent. The costs only cost if you
| want to distribute pre-built binaries to others.
| pudwallabee wrote:
| The tooling(?) (starting with xcode) is quite objectionable
| and is enough to drive people (me) away. The language choices
| are well. Interesting. Kotlin fills the need for mainstream
| Swift better than Swift, and without all the baggage that
| Apple brings to the table.
|
| If you want to see what open source Swift is going to end up
| like, just look at GNU objective C. It will likely follow the
| same pattern of adoption over time and be hobbled on non-
| Apple platforms.
| pkos98 wrote:
| there already is an lsp available (officially from Apple).
|
| Tried it out a month ago (on Linux using neovim) and the
| autocompletion was on par with golang lsp in terms of speed.
| Didnt check the lsp capabilities though.
| armchairhacker wrote:
| Swift _had_ good support in JetBrains AppCode.
|
| Maybe it still does, but probably not, because AppCode was
| sunsetted at the end of 2022 and stopped receiving updates in
| 2023 (https://blog.jetbrains.com/appcode/2022/12/appcode-2022-3
| -re...). Which is really unfortunate.
|
| If Swift ever gets good support outside of Apple, I wouldn't be
| surprised if JetBrains starts working on their Swift plugin
| again and releases it for IntelliJ and CLion. But despite this
| migration, my understanding is that Swift on Linux and the new
| Foundation (non-Apple standard library) is still lacking.
| bla3 wrote:
| Does this mean Swift will finally be built on top of public LLVM
| instead of on top of Apple's fork of it?
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