[HN Gopher] Apple is launching its own password manager app
___________________________________________________________________
Apple is launching its own password manager app
Author : kelthuzad
Score : 193 points
Date : 2024-06-10 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
| chrisbolt wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40636292
| boringg wrote:
| Password manager apps have been put on notice.
| teolandon wrote:
| Not while people can't use the Apple one on Linux or Android.
| cheeze wrote:
| I mean, my parents will immediately move to this from
| BitWarden.
|
| There is still a place for password managers, but if I'm the
| LastPass CEO, writing is on the wall with this
| announcement... They will see a large exodus of customers
| that use Apple OS.
| criddell wrote:
| I think for a lot of the password managers out there, the
| majority of their revenue comes from Apple users. The ones
| that don't rely on Apple users will be fine.
| recursive wrote:
| Put on notice? What's better about this than 1password?
| mmanfrin wrote:
| Pointless if it doesnt have cross platform. Apple devices already
| basically have a password manager, the main reason more people
| don't use it it is because it doesnt also work on android or
| windows, not because it's not a standalone app called Passwords.
| wwalexander wrote:
| It works on Windows.
| toddmorey wrote:
| It does work on windows; the mentioned that. No word yet on
| Android.
| Hamuko wrote:
| No dedicated app on Windows though, it'll be part of their
| existing iCloud Windows application.
| norman784 wrote:
| The password manager that we have today is terrible, that's why
| people are not using it.
| donohoe wrote:
| Hardly. While not everyone is entirely within the Apple eco-
| system a huge number of people are that go beyond the necessary
| critical mass. Apple already built this into the OS they just
| kept it under the clunky Settings UI - so seems like a logical
| and low-effort move.
|
| If the Family Sharing aspects are well done I'd happily say
| goodbye to my 1Password subscription.
| vundercind wrote:
| Being in system settings makes sense to me. Having the place
| to see the same stuff on macOS be _Safari's_ settings window
| is the bizarre part.
|
| Regardless, I've been using it for years now. Works fine.
| Better UI will be nice assuming this doesn't come with a
| bunch of updates that somehow manage to make it work less-
| well.
| saithier wrote:
| They did say there was a windows client in the keynote.
| jrexilius wrote:
| My approach has been to move it out of the vendor OS entirely
| and embedd it in the keyboard. I'll be releasing this as open
| source (hardware & software) soon:
|
| https://www.anomie.tech/products/anigma/ce/
| throwaway48476 wrote:
| Any connection to what bunnie is doing with precursor?
| jrexilius wrote:
| No connection other than being a fan. I started working on
| my (simpler) approach before precursor was launched and
| think there is a place for both, but I'm a big fan of all
| the work he and his team are doing.
| r0m4n0 wrote:
| Agreed, for me it needs a solid webapp too. I reference
| personal credentials on my corp laptop and can't/won't login to
| anything that's in the system and am unable to install any
| unauthorized apps.
| throw0101d wrote:
| > _Pointless if it doesnt have cross platform._
|
| As mentioned in another news article on the topic:
|
| > It also syncs with PCs via the iCloud for Windows app.
|
| * https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/10/24175505/apple-
| password-a...
|
| and in the keynote itself:
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXeOiIDNNek&t=59m32s
| pdpi wrote:
| Last I tried it, iCloud for Windows didn't integrate with
| Firefox, though.
| _JamesA_ wrote:
| Or Linux.
| Someone wrote:
| I would think it would be Firefox which would have to
| support iCloud for Windows.
|
| If password managers could interfere with password fields
| in Firefox without its help, malware could do that, too.
|
| Or is there a generic password manager API on Windows that
| Apple doesn't implement?
| ivan_gammel wrote:
| 1Password, for example, has a plugin for Firefox.
| Something that you would expect in MVP for any password
| manager.
| zchrykng wrote:
| With Firefox at 2.93% [1] percent market share, doesn't
| seem like many people would put it in the MVP.
|
| 1:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
| bastawhiz wrote:
| And for those of us without an iPhone?
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Then we're not their target demographic.
| nani8ot wrote:
| Being locked into the eco system is my main reason for
| avoiding Apple products. Switching from an iPhone to an
| Android phone was painless for me because I didn't use any
| of the Apple services (iMessage, iCloud, Passwords). If I
| had to simultaneously switch from Passwords to Bitwarden
| would've been time consuming and annoying.
| wiseowise wrote:
| Just need to install windows on my phone, duh.
| spike021 wrote:
| I started using Keychain pretty much primarily this year (other
| than 1Password at work) and it works pretty seamlessly for me
| (granted Apple devices only). Even the Chrome extension works
| quickly as if it were a native part of Chrome.
|
| Glad they're splitting it out of System Settings into a dedicated
| app.
|
| I've also started migrating family members to it. It'll be way
| easier for the less technical people since it's already tightly
| integrated in the devices and OS they use everyday.
| mdeeks wrote:
| Does the Chrome extension still require you to enter a six
| digit code every day to even use it? When I tried it this was
| incredibly annoying and I switched back to 1password shortly
| after.
| spike021 wrote:
| Not sure that it's every day but I haven't been too bothered
| by it. It's not unlike the security policies where I work. So
| needing to type in a OTP isn't out of my normal routine.
| eastbound wrote:
| It's important, otherwise that means any locally-running
| binary (maven, npm) can steal all of your passwords, since
| they are in clear on your computer.
| criddell wrote:
| Does macOS sandbox things like maven or npm? Do they need
| read access for everything the user can see?
| duxup wrote:
| I often was looking to see "do I have that in keychain" and ...
| I'd forget where to find it as it wasn't a dedicated app.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| You're both talking about iOS, right? Because on the Mac it's
| always been a dedicated app.
| duxup wrote:
| Yes, I am for sure thinking of iOS.
| spike021 wrote:
| Yeah. But even for Mac it's always been more of a technical
| utility app. When I say that it feels more akin to Disk
| Utility than the Notes app (in terms of who it's meant
| for).
| lxgr wrote:
| These days it even shows you a popup that asks something
| along the lines of "are you sure you want this app and
| not the iCloud Keychain tab in System Preferences".
| toddmorey wrote:
| This is welcome. Central password management really should be an
| OS feature. Drives me crazy that every browser I use has a
| different credentials store and sync service.
| sahila wrote:
| Why do you have the need to use different browsers? Use the one
| you like on all your devices is easy.
| lxgr wrote:
| Not everybody appreciates platform lock-in (whether the
| platform is a browser or an OS).
| wwalexander wrote:
| One of my biggest feature wishes finally come true. A few updates
| back they made the Passwords section in Settings one level less
| deep, and I was very frustrated they realized it should be easily
| accessible but didn't bother making it a standalone app when
| Keychain existed on Mac.
| shallichange wrote:
| Why would I use it over Bitwarder?
| fckgw wrote:
| Because it's already built into the devices I use
| block_dagger wrote:
| Bitwarden integrates pretty well on Apple devices/apps
| already, although I guess you could save a tap by using a
| native app.
| HaZeust wrote:
| I'll be trying this out, but moving me from Bitwarden will
| prove quite a feat - especially since it was the best option
| for me after trying over 10 password managers while I was still
| window shopping for one.
| nsbk wrote:
| I'm in the same boat. I really enjoy Bitwarden but I'm
| willing to give this a try to see if it's as good as it could
| be
| throwawayq3423 wrote:
| I will need a tool to transfer over all the pws, doing that
| manually is a non starter
| nsbk wrote:
| Sounds like a fun project to work on
| throwawayq3423 wrote:
| Most pw mangers already have one. That's how I started on
| BitWarden
| Hamuko wrote:
| It's native and not Electron shit?
| HaZeust wrote:
| What's wrong with Electron?
| AnonC wrote:
| Electron apps are usually (not always necessarily) sluggish
| and don't support native UI paradigms or keyboard shortcuts
| or navigation. The Bitwarden desktop app is one of the bad
| ones.
| Hamuko wrote:
| Disk space for one. The Bitwarden macOS application is
| around 390 MB. For comparison, Firefox is 388 MB. They're
| usually much worse from a CPU and RAM perspective too.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Considering I only ever use it as a Chrome plugin anyway,
| that's not much of a sell
| AnonC wrote:
| Mainly depends on which platforms you use. If you're using
| Bitwarden on Android and/or Linux, then this isn't a
| replacement. If you're on Apple's iOS/iPadOS/macOS or are on
| Windows, you can use this. These are also native apps, unlike
| Bitwarden's Electron monstrosity on the desktop.
|
| Bitwarden has been lagging in implementing any consumer
| features for some years now (custom item types has been on the
| roadmap for six years and is still not done). Except for secure
| notes in Bitwarden, I don't think you'd miss anything else in
| this app. Bitwarden is spending money and focus on the
| enterprise, just like 1Password has been. For the consumer
| segment, neither of these are good enough now.
| jimt1234 wrote:
| > Bitwarden has been lagging in implementing any consumer
| features for some years now...
|
| This is actually the reason why I like Bitwarden. They don't
| seem to be constantly trying to push unwanted features on me.
| I've always been a fan of the first "rule" of the Unix
| Philosophy: _do one thing well_.
| lawn wrote:
| You probably shouldn't.
|
| But it might make other people who don't use a password manager
| start using one.
| Sprotch wrote:
| For this to catch on it needs to have a Chrome app - that's the
| only way employers let you use a password manager
| fckgw wrote:
| There's been a Keychain/iCloud Passwords chrome extension for
| years already
| Bnjoroge wrote:
| really? what's the name?
| selykg wrote:
| https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-
| passwords/pe...
| lxgr wrote:
| It's worth noting that this is Windows only, and needs
| you to install the iCloud native client there (which
| might not be an option on managed devices).
|
| It doesn't work as a standalone Chrome extension in the
| way that 1Password or Bitwarden do, for example.
| egypturnash wrote:
| So... this new app does _most_ of what the depreciated "Keychain"
| app did, except now it's got a iOS-looking UI. Huzzah, I guess,
| the "passwords" section in the iOS-restyled system prefs sure
| wasn't substituting for Keychain for me. Passwords doesn't appear
| to handle secure notes, though, and I still have a few of those,
| too.
|
| I still really hate the iOS-restyled system prefs. Tiny
| unresizable text, a long vertical scroll. I can't find a damn
| thing in it and just use the search bar every time and feel
| faintly annoyed about it.
| selykg wrote:
| I noticed a "Notes" section in password items. So, I guess in
| theory you could utilize those.
|
| But my biggest one is wanting to store secure files. Think
| copies of a drivers license, signed documents or various certs
| and keys. That's not being covered here either for me sadly.
| It's not a super common situation for me so I can probably find
| an alternative app for that purpose.
|
| Edit: Also for notes, I'd just password protect something in
| the Notes app. But that's just me.
| catoc wrote:
| For iOS & Mac https://thevault-app.com does exactly that for
| me. Storing PDFs, or just plain images of passport, drivers
| license etc (in addition to passwords). It's a bit on the
| technical site (eg, also has cmd: prefix for terminal
| commands etc)
| spike021 wrote:
| We've been able to lock notes in the Notes app for a while
| either with a password or Touch/FaceID.
| egypturnash wrote:
| Oh, you can? I should look into that then, thanks. I've
| vaguely settled on Notes as "I guess this is the least shitty
| replacement for the specific way Evernote fit I to my life"
| but have never actually sat down with its manual to see what
| it can actually do.
|
| Hopefully Adobe won't decide to start shitting a bunch of
| authorization credentials into private Notes the way they
| took over the Private Notes section of Keychain.
| tarentel wrote:
| If this supports OTP, and ideally profiles, I'd likely cancel my
| 1Password subscription. I've been waiting for Apple to release
| something like this for a long time and surprised it took them
| this long.
| Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 wrote:
| iOS already supports OTP, it's just buried in Settings >
| Passwords > Set up verification code. Once you do that, it's
| seamless - it autofills in all my site and works beautifully in
| chrome/edge/firefox even in my PCs
| alt227 wrote:
| Keychain has been built into all apple devices for ages, and
| all support OTP and seamless sharing across all your devices.
| Genuinely interested to know why you have been using 1Password
| when apple will already do it all for you? Did you not know?
| whitepoplar wrote:
| I hope it includes credit cards, rewards programs, IDs/Passports,
| etc. so that I can cancel my 1Password subscription.
| alberth wrote:
| What's new besides management of passwords being move from
| Settings, now into it's own dedicated app?
| jwells89 wrote:
| Timely with how official support for the old 1Password 7 apps
| probably won't be continued for too much longer, with 1Password
| pushing users over to the notably worse v8 apps. I'll probably
| switch.
| baryphonic wrote:
| Interesting. I liked the 1Password 6 UI, was frustrated with
| 1Password 7 and have been loving 1Password 8 so far. Version 7
| seemed really clunky when I needed to do certain workflows.
| jwells89 wrote:
| What I dislike about the 7 - 8 transition is that it went
| from feeling like a handcrafted Mac app to an
| indistinguishable generic SaaS thing, which is exacerbated by
| 8 being built with Electron (which brings dozens of little
| papercuts that are difficult to smooth out, even if the dev
| cares to try to).
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Right. 1Password 7 is the last one to have private vaults.
| After that dies, I have no reason to use 1Password over
| anything else. SSH? Yeah, need that for work - which absolutely
| bans storing those on the cloud.
| selykg wrote:
| The biggest reason I'm moving away from 1Password is the
| abysmal support for Safari Profiles. It's so bad it's
| ridiculous.
|
| Right now for instance I have a Personal profile, and a few
| work specific ones around admin, development, and my day-to-day
| work to split things off easily. I have 1Password unlocked in
| one profile and it works in that, but if I switch to any other
| profile it needs to be unlocked, then it tells me it needs to
| reload the extension. Reloading it doesn't do anything but
| break it again. I have to fully quit Safari then it works again
| for some unknown amount of time then falls apart completely
| soon after (probably laptop sleep or something like that).
|
| Just a shitshow all around from 1Password anymore. How the
| mighty have fallen due to profits and investors.
| alt227 wrote:
| So are they literally just launching an icon which opens
| keychain?
| drcongo wrote:
| No.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| I'll be interested to see if there is improved support for
| handling and syncing passkeys to multiple personal devices.
|
| I'm a bit nervous after hearing about people having early adopter
| issues.
|
| Hopefully there is some sort of fallback if something extreme
| like a house fire manages to destroy all of your personal devices
| at once.
| pkamb wrote:
| My annoyance with Keychain has been that items kind of appear
| there as I type in a username and password on the web. Feels
| rather ephemeral, like old "saved passwords" in Internet Explorer
| or whatever. Feels like I'm one browser cookie reset away from
| losing everything.
|
| Whereas with 1Password I use a separate app to CREATE a new Login
| file for an app/website/anything. I can save that file with as
| much or a little information filled out as desired. Can create
| arbitrary info files for Passports, library membership cards,
| etc. I know the information for each is forever stored exactly as
| I created it, always syncing, never overwritten when I type in a
| different password and accidentally hit "save" in a webform.
|
| I hope the new Apple Passwords app is more like the later; if so
| I would switch.
| jaskaransainiz wrote:
| Nice
| FredPret wrote:
| Good! I've typed [?]-spacebar + "password" about a million times
| now
| ipqk wrote:
| I've been an avid 1Password user for over 10 years, but since
| they gone full-throttle targeting the enterprise market, I'm
| getting more and more annoyed. It's increasingly buggy (right
| now, it thinks I haven't migrated from 1p7 which causes annoying
| interstitials that I can't close. Over a month and no fix yet.).
| They killed standalone vaults. Obvious feature requests (e.g
| archive an entire vault) sit there for years untouched. The value
| is increasingly not there anymore for me, and here's hoping I can
| finally jump ship this fall.
| alx__ wrote:
| Is your computer managed by Jamf? I had that 1Password 7 issue
| because of policy issue
| bowsamic wrote:
| I've used Bitwarden for a while now and it has been so better
| than LastPass or 1Password ever was for me. I never understood
| the 1Password hype, it was easily the worst experience of any
| password manager I tried.
| lxgr wrote:
| Bitwarden gets my vote too.
|
| Besides just working as expected, it importantly supports
| self-hosting. I don't currently make use of that, but have
| given it a try and it's great as well.
|
| Having alternatives to the SaaS (currently very reasonably
| priced) is invaluable.
| ents wrote:
| Same here. Hoping I can jump ship before next renewal.
| drcongo wrote:
| I'm only still on it because of team use, but if Apple's thing
| supports teams I'm gonna be _so_ happy to get rid of it.
|
| I've been using it for nearly 20 years and it's been going down
| hill fast for the last 5, but 1Password 8 is an absolute clown
| car. It hijacks your passkey logins meaning that authenticating
| with Tailscale for me has gone from a single touch of the
| TouchID button on my Mac, to 1) click button that says "Unlock
| 1Password", 2) Click it again because it did fuck all the first
| time, 3) hit the global hotkey for 1Password, 4) open 1Password
| via Alfred because the hotkey has decided to stop working
| again, 5) touch the TouchID button to unlock 1Password, 6)
| switch back to the browser to find that my Tailscale auth has
| timed out, 7) back to iTerm to initiate the auth again, 8) if
| I'm lucky, I can now touch the TouchID button to use my Apple
| passkey, if I'm not, it's back to step 1.
|
| I'd challenge anyone to name an app that has been ruined more
| by VC money than 1Password.
| anonexpat wrote:
| Evernote.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version. Paying a
| monthly fee for access to my passwords is highway robbery. I do
| not want/need any of these other "services" they forced upon
| me. I have trying Apples keychain, but that migration is slow
| and a total pain in the ass. And it's not even a good
| replacement.
|
| I'm sure 1Password doesn't care one iota about loosing
| individual users with attitudes like this. Until the forced to
| a monthly rent seeking hand in my pocket policy was deployed, I
| had been a vocal advocate for 1Pass. Now, they're about to
| loose me altogether
| spike021 wrote:
| Interesting. Earlier this year I migrated passwords out of
| 1Password and a few from LastPass and Apple Keychain
| supported both easily. Just not more complex types of
| credentials. Every password and website was imported
| correctly as expected. If not I have yet to notice.
| kshacker wrote:
| I tried to do the same and failed. The questions were 1)
| multi-browser support - I use Safari, Chrome, Firefox and
| Opera - there is a reason for this and I do not want to
| authorize some of my browsers everyday to serve passwords,
| 2) ease of use for family with different level of
| computer/iOS proficiency amongst them. As of now, they are
| happily running on 1password, but I will be happy to try
| again this year and next.
| dylan604 wrote:
| On top of that having to open up system preferences to
| add a new entry was just insane. Hopefully, this new UI
| into it will lessen that pain.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Paying a monthly fee for access to my passwords is highway
| robber_
|
| It would be. Fortunately, 1Password doesn't do that [1].
|
| You're paying for an important piece of software to be
| maintained.
|
| > _I 'm sure 1Password doesn't care one iota about loosing
| individual users with attitudes like this_
|
| Probably not. Emphasis on attitude.
|
| [1] https://support.1password.com/frozen-account/
| dylan604 wrote:
| This entire assumption that I'm a freeloader is absolute
| bullshit. I've bought and paid for my copies of 1Password
| and have even purchased it for others. You can take that
| freeloader name calling and shove it right back in the
| place you found it. I'm quite frankly tired of it.
|
| We can have upgrades and working software that gets updates
| without monthly fees to do it. I also do not need their
| cloud and only features. They intentionally removed the
| local vaults specifically to force you to use their cloud.
| That was the last straw for me.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _assumption that I 'm a freeloader_
|
| Where did I or OP say this?
|
| > _can have upgrades and working software that gets
| updates without monthly fees to do it_
|
| It's a bad financial model.
|
| > _intentionally removed the local vaults_
|
| This is a valid disagreement.
| dylan604 wrote:
| people go back and edit their comments silently after
| being called out all the time around here
| stouset wrote:
| > We can have upgrades and working software that gets
| updates without monthly fees to do it.
|
| No, the last twenty years has show us that we can't.
|
| If you want developers to perform ongoing work on their
| products, you need to accept a model where there's
| ongoing pay for that work.
| buzzerbetrayed wrote:
| 1Password has the most reasonable pricing out of just about
| any SaaS company. $1/user/month if you're on a family plan.
| $3/month for individuals. And they provide a great service.
|
| Strongly disagree that they're part of the group of SaaS
| companies trying to price gouge their users.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Cloud only, and they removed local storage of the vaults.
| If I'm somewhere that doesn't have internet connectivity,
| what happens then?
|
| Dislike of SaaS isn't limited to monthly fees, but the lack
| of features they removed to encourage SaaS adoption
| musictubes wrote:
| How many passwords are required if you aren't connecting
| to the internet? What would you be signing in to?
| LilBytes wrote:
| After the initial login all your passwords are cached
| locally anyway.
| sooperserieous wrote:
| Do you only keep online passwords in your manager? I've
| got all sorts of things in mine, plenty that I might need
| without connectivity, such as the door code to that
| AirBnB or bank account numbers and PINs. Then again, I
| never would have done that without offline
| availability...
| dylan604 wrote:
| That's some low quality snark. I have plenty of local
| things with passwords. One example is encrypted external
| drives. That's all your snark gets from me on the off
| chance it's not actually snark. (must me the most I've
| used the word snark in one go)
| Beijinger wrote:
| enpass.io is great.
|
| + Can't beat convenience.
|
| + Cross platform
|
| +/- free if you don't need mobile version
|
| - Closed source
|
| (no affiliation)
| heinrich5991 wrote:
| Bitwarden
|
| + cross-platform
|
| + free as in beer
|
| + free and open-source software
|
| Can't really comment on convenience, I moved from LastPass, but
| it has worked well for me.
| Beijinger wrote:
| I think I checked this. The self hosted wallet was tricky if
| I remember right.
| lxgr wrote:
| There's a Docker image that has worked out of the box for
| me.
| shironandon wrote:
| this sounds great as long as law and federal enforcement agencies
| can also access that password manager app as-needed.
| favorited wrote:
| End-to-end encrypted, so no.
|
| https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain-sec...
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| [dupe]
|
| More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40636292
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I hope there is a cli that will allow access to this like the
| `security` command, maybe this is just another facade on top of
| oldschool keychain?
| epaulson wrote:
| Are there APIs to get the iCloud sync into my own app? I'm all
| for iCloud syncing to my devices I just want a way to also get a
| backup in a file so if Apple decides to delete my account on a
| whim, I don't lose everything.
| musictubes wrote:
| What account are you worried about Apple deleting? If they nuke
| your iCloud account your info is still on the device.
| daft_pink wrote:
| I think it needs multiple domains for an account. It appears this
| hasn't changed from their current setup from the screenshots in
| the presentation.
|
| I don't want to switch from 1pass if I can't set 2 or 3 separate
| webdomains for an account as I find this to be the most annoying
| feature of apple passwords, when a website has a separate
| register page from it's login pages. In 1pass you can just delete
| the subdomain and add domains. Apple doesn't allow you to edit at
| all :(
| m_a_g wrote:
| I wasn't expecting this much hate towards 1Password in the
| comments. I was using Google Passwords, then migrated to Apple,
| finally to 1P7 and now 1P8. It's one of the best software I've
| ever used and I don't know what I'd do without it. Same goes for
| Fastmail as well.
| dylan604 wrote:
| you really enjoy paying each month for access to your
| passwords? really?
| max_ wrote:
| One of the reasons for bad software products & corporations
| taking advantage of users is this free loader mindset.
|
| What exactly is wrong with paying $10 per year for a well
| done product?
| dylan604 wrote:
| If it were $10, we might have a conversation.
|
| I paid for my full version of 1Pass way back when, and
| upgraded all the way through to v7. It was a one time fee
| and used until they broke it.
|
| I never said refused to pay for it, but a monthly fee in
| perpetuity is just ridiculous to me.
| max_ wrote:
| I don't use. One pass, I use Bitwarden.
| dylan604 wrote:
| congratulations. this particular thread is about an app
| called 1Password.
| brailsafe wrote:
| I'm still on v7, what did they break?
| PascLeRasc wrote:
| They disabled autofill in the Firefox/Chrome extensions
| and won't provide an older version that worked or even a
| download of the 1P7 app.
| LVB wrote:
| You get 1P for $10/year?
|
| I'm willing to pay for a lot of software, but the costs are
| certainly real (especially in aggregate), and I try to be
| mindful of whether it is worth it to me. I would definitely
| pay $10/year for a password manager. I currently pay
| $36/year. Would I pay $100? No. But I'm not sure where the
| cutoff is.
|
| And then I have to do this for every pricier piece of
| software. (For all of the lower-cost, one-time payments,
| little apps, etc. I just pay and move on.)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _really enjoy paying each month for access to your
| passwords?_
|
| When it comes to a password manager, I appreciate having
| constant access to updates. That isn't feasible for one-and-
| done code.
|
| That said, it's 1Password's bugginess that will have me
| looking at Apple's offering. (Particularly how it performs on
| non-Safari browsers, _e.g._ Orion and Firefox.)
| short_sells_poo wrote:
| Yeah. I want to pay the people who look after the thing that
| stores my most precious information. I want them to be
| overpaid and look after their golden goose.
|
| It seems nuts to me that you expect someone to provide you a
| service for free?
| dylan604 wrote:
| I never said free. Did I? Just because someone is revolting
| against rent seeking companies vs building a solid product
| and increasing users this forum likes to denigrate them
| into being freeloaders. You've got the wrong idea and are
| running with it in the wrong direction.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _vs building a solid product and increasing users this
| forum likes to denigrate them into being freeloaders_
|
| The point is maintenance is an ongoing expense.
| Pretending it can be baked into a one-off purchase price
| is nuts, unless one is willing to buy that software
| _caveat emptor_ , as in if it has a critical bug, sorry,
| you need to upgrade to have safe software.
|
| For a game, that seems fine. For a password manager,
| obviously not. That said, enough people don't like this
| to give Apple an advantage in amortising payments that
| users cannot.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Again with this made up concept that I wanted a pay once
| notion. I kept upgrading with their releases until they
| went SaaS and removed the ability to store the data
| locally. If they continued to offer local storage with
| paid upgrades, I'd continue paying and using. They don't,
| so I'm not.
| ivan_gammel wrote:
| I just checked it on my device in airplane mode:
| everything is available locally and new records can be
| added. What do you mean saying you cannot store the data
| locally?
| dylan604 wrote:
| with v8, there are no more local vaults stored on my
| machine with other devices syncing via WLAN. it's all
| cloud accounts or bust
| eknkc wrote:
| I do. It is a critical software for me. Why would I use
| something inferior?
| e40 wrote:
| I used it with my family and it's worth paying monthly for
| it. Passwords are so incredibly important. If I was hit by a
| car tomorrow, I know a huge chunk of my life is there for
| people to just pick up.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > If I was hit by a car tomorrow, I know a huge chunk of my
| life is there for people to just pick up.
|
| My wife and I have talked a bit about this recently but
| haven't implemented anything yet. (I use 1Password, and she
| doesn't have access other than a shared vault, and vice-
| versa with iCloud passwords.)
|
| One thing that gives me a bit of hesitation is from a
| security standpoint - if we have access to each other's
| accounts and one of us falls victim to, for instance, a
| password-manager-level phishing scheme, the fallout from
| both of us having to recover from that at the same time is
| dramatically more of an inconvenience than if only one of
| us is affected.
|
| Happy to hear from anyone else who's thought about this and
| any approaches they may have been taken - there doesn't
| seem to be much discussion about it online.
| e40 wrote:
| The information in 1PW is the most important information
| I have. I have a Yubikey because of that.
| rickharrison wrote:
| 1password has progressively gotten worse every year for the
| past 5-10. 1password team if you are reading this, please stop
| making your software worse. Search which was great for years is
| now terrible and has jumbled results.
|
| Some software should just be considered "done" and never
| changed again. 1Password is one of those things.
| fckgw wrote:
| 1Password has gotten way, way better than it was a few years
| ago in my opinion. Tons of new features and the redesign a
| couple years ago was a big improvement.
| jen20 wrote:
| The electron rewrite was a significant step backwards
| regardless of features and quality. I cannot wait to ditch
| 1P.
| e40 wrote:
| How was it a step backward? I have noticed zero downsides
| to 8 compared to the previous version. I'm comparing the
| current version to the last version 7 I used. This
| electron hate is such a headscratcher for me.
| fourfour3 wrote:
| I agree with this a lot.
|
| I miss 1Password Mini in particular still (and no, Quick
| Access is not a replacement).
| pupppet wrote:
| I dislike the new search so much, just make search work like
| it does in every other application. If you're reinventing the
| wheel for something so basic that's the first sign you're
| doing something very wrong.
| ivan_gammel wrote:
| I don't really understand this kind of comments that complain
| without any specifics. Worse how? I use two family
| subscriptions and a corporate one for many years and haven't
| noticed any regression in functionality or UX. They release
| time to time minor quality of life improvements and continue
| supporting modern platforms. 1P7 to 1P8 upgrade went without
| any problems on all platforms I use. IMO this is the best
| password manager on the market by many measures.
|
| What is your experience exactly?
| MrDarcy wrote:
| For me, I paid full price for the app. I attached many
| important documents such as my ID, SSN Card, my original
| birth cert, even the deed to my house. If I pass my wife
| knows where to get this info.
|
| When my son was born I went to add his birth cert and SSN.
| I couldn't. The "attach file" button is still there but it
| simply doesn't work any more.
|
| After hours of troubleshooting I finally found a discussion
| on their own support form where they acknowledged they
| explicitly disabled this feature. The solution is to switch
| to a paid subscription.
|
| I'll never buy software from them again. That's just one
| example. They've removed similar functionality from cloud
| sync services to compel users to buy a subscription.
| maigret wrote:
| Sad indeed but the days of 0 interest rates are gone.
| Plus, software engineers in many countries are now
| massively more expensive.
| rickharrison wrote:
| - 1Password used to support Dropbox syncing without a
| subscription. They allowed you to keep using the app, but
| they removed support for auto-filling logins from dropbox
| in Safari or Firefox. You could only auto-fill from vaults
| that you paid monthly for. Whatever, they win, I started
| paying monthly.
|
| - They broke search in the past few months. I have multiple
| accounts with the same service (i.e. google, mercury) for
| personal and business. Now when searching it displays
| gibberish like 2FA backup codes from the notes instead of
| just having `${title} - ${username}` like it had for years
|
| - They completely changed the left bar and moved around the
| entire UI multiple times. Credit cards used to be a simple
| click on the left side. Now I have to click "All Items" on
| the left side, then find the dropdown for "All Categories",
| click it, scroll down to Credit Cards and click on that.
|
| It really comes down to the fact that it's a password
| manager. All it has to do is store passwords and fill them
| in when I need to sign in somewhere. Why has the UI
| fundamentally changed multiple times over the years
| throwing away all learned user behavior.
|
| EDIT: There's also just the intangibles. I can't always
| remember specifics, but I "Feel" like 1password has been
| fighting me for years. I don't feel that way about many
| other pieces of software I use. 1Password just feels
| hostile in how they change/update things.
| e40 wrote:
| I completely disagree. Yeah, the launch of 1PW8 was rocky.
| They didn't have feature parity on some devices (iOS). I
| waited a good while to update and when I did I had an issue
| with my Yubikey, so I went back to 1PW7 on iOS, but it was
| fantastic on macOS--way better than 7. After a short while,
| they fixed the Yubikey login issue with 8 on iOS and I have
| had exactly zero issues on macOS or iOS since, for about a
| year(ish).
|
| Another data point: my 85 year old mother used to have issues
| with 7. She'd get confused about things. With 8, it's been
| clear sailing for her. That's pretty impressive to me.
| blawson wrote:
| 1Password + Fastmail integration for generating masked email is
| also great.
|
| Plus a nice UI for handling OTP, notes, credit cards, IDs, bank
| accounts, etc, it's easily worth the annual price for me.
| squeegee_scream wrote:
| Omg yes! Fastmail + 1P is soooo good. 1P has an integration
| with privacy.com to create unique debit cards. With these 3
| tools I have a unique email, pw, and debit card for each
| service. Makes me feel in control over my interaction with a
| service. Here's my referral link for privacy if you're
| interested
|
| https://privacy.com/join/JCPFN
| sunshowers wrote:
| Same, I'm actually a bit of a late adopter (only started using
| 1p in earnest once they came out with a Linux client) but it's
| been so great. I absolutely love the SSH agent in particular,
| it just works.
|
| On topic, as a primarily Linux user I'm not in the target
| market for this (or any other Apple products or services
| really) and that's fine.
| tootie wrote:
| We used 1pwd at my company and I have a paid family account. I
| love it. Think it's worth every penny.
| jftuga wrote:
| I've been using KeePassXC on Mac and Windows and sync them
| between each other with Unison[1]. I'd be curious to learn how
| others who are using KeePassXC are syncing there databases with
| iPhone.
|
| [1]
| https://gist.github.com/jftuga/0265e5403d56373662b9513d8816e...
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Strongbox app and storing the database in iCloud Drive.
| sngz wrote:
| Proton drive and keepassx, keepass2android and keepass
| sngz wrote:
| Keepass2android and proton drive along with the keepass windows
| app
| lmz wrote:
| Dropbox and KeePassium on the phone.
| theogravity wrote:
| Lack of Linux support and i'm not sure if it handles storing
| files (eg pdfs) is what would hold me from adopting this.
|
| I use 1pass across all platforms.
| cletus wrote:
| Here's Apple's big problem: it's not a replacement for so many
| alternatives because it isn't supported on all platforms.
|
| Safari? Not on Windows.
|
| Apple Music? This actually has a Windows client. I'm not sure how
| good it is. But Spotify supports Windows and even Linux.
|
| Apple Password Manager? Will this be tied to iCloud? Will I be
| able to use it on Android? If I no longer have an iPhone will it
| be a pain to maintain and use?
|
| A dog cannot serve two masters. A company like Apple doesn't see
| any of these things as a product. They're a means to an end: to
| push the iPhone platform (and hardware sales). That priority will
| always trump the interests of a product like this.
|
| It's also why I refuse to buy more into Google products: it's too
| much of a risk to lose access to everything if Google wakes up
| one day and decides to suspend your account with no recourse
| other than making enough of a stink on social media such that an
| employee will actually look into it.
|
| People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service,
| one login.
| thisarticle wrote:
| They're releasing an app for Windows that will solve that piece
| at least. It'll sync across both.
| cletus wrote:
| In the same way I don't trust Google not to cancel whatever
| it is they just announced, I don't trust apple to keep
| supporting software on platforms that aren't theirs. They
| just don't have a good track record and no real incentives.
| The last widespread Apple sosftware on non-Apple platforms
| was probably iTunes, which was terrible.
| Someone wrote:
| > Here's Apple's big problem: it's not a replacement for so
| many alternatives because it isn't supported on all platforms.
|
| I don't see why that would be a _big_ problem for _Apple_.
|
| As this article explains, this isn't new functionality. It's
| (mostly) a new UI for existing functionality, to make the
| hardware they sell and make lots of money on more attractive.
| quitit wrote:
| Seems to be the case that commenters do not know that
| Keychain Access exists.
|
| Apple has tried various approaches of surfacing this
| functionality (eg the passwords panel in Safari and again in
| iOS's settings app). This just seems to be the app-agnostic
| way of providing this functionality to everyday users, and
| probably a good thing as platforms move away from passwords.
| llamaimperative wrote:
| No, Keychain Access is just a terrible app. It is
| sufficiently terrible that I'm 100% aware of its existence
| and instead choose to pay for a _less_ OS-integrated, but
| far better app.
| quitit wrote:
| > No, bla bla irrelevant comment.
|
| No, the commenters I'm referring to are ones that think
| Apple including a password manager is anticompetitive
| lock in, and other similar comments that are clearly
| unaware that this is not new functionality.
|
| Your comment has zero bearing on what I posted. Apple
| themselves use 1PW
| superb_dev wrote:
| Apple Music has a decent web player, so it's technically
| supported on Linux
| fckgw wrote:
| Apple already has an iCloud app for Windows and has had an
| iCloud Password Chrome extension for years. There is no support
| for Android.
| lxgr wrote:
| > has had an iCloud Password Chrome extension for years
|
| Which is also only available for Windows, as far as I know.
| ttul wrote:
| If they haven't already, I won't be surprised if Apple creates
| a reasonable password app for Android and Windows specifically
| to address this concern. Fanning out to other platforms to
| enable customers to continue using Apple products is a decent
| strategy that probably does more to retain people within the
| Apple ecosystem than it does to enable a move away from Apple.
| jurmous wrote:
| Apple already has a Windows iCloud password app and a Chrome
| extension https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-
| windows/manage-passwo...
| tootie wrote:
| It's more platform lock-in and it leverages their market
| position. Unabashed monopolism. Completely unchastened by
| recent lawsuits.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Except for the fact that you can import from and export to
| other password managers using built-in functions. That kind
| of kills the whole lock-in vibe.
| WheatMillington wrote:
| Literally not a monopoly.
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| Apple wants it to be a problem so it incentivizes you to switch
| over.
| MrDarcy wrote:
| I use Apple Music and Apple Notes every day on my Debian
| workstation. Works like a charm.
| basisword wrote:
| >> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one
| service, one login.
|
| I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.
|
| With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome
| extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use
| it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for
| most.
|
| On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can
| easily import and export your passwords, just like you can with
| 1Password.
|
| Apple Music has had a web client for a long time. iTunes has
| been on Windows for 20+ years and Apple Music was supported via
| that until recently when they built an Apple Music specific
| app.
| evilduck wrote:
| Besides the web client,
|
| https://cider.sh exists and is in various distro package
| managers already too.
| lxgr wrote:
| > On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords.
|
| Now that many sites are moving to passkeys or TOTPs, it would
| be great if Apple could not lock users in there as well.
|
| > Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now
| which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms
|
| That's only on Windows and requires you to install iCloud
| tools locally, right?
| WheatMillington wrote:
| >People don't want everything tied to one identity, one
| service, one login.
|
| This is EXACTLY what people want. Please remember that HN is
| not a cross section of the general public.
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| >> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one
| service, one login.
|
| Oh sweet summer child, HN is its own reality distortion field.
| You don't want that, most people don't want to deal with the
| hassle of it all, they just want to press a button and be done
| with it.
|
| FaceId/TouchId was a great leap forward in security because it
| required barely any special interaction from the user, and it
| reduces the friction for a bunch of things. Make it work for
| anything (though this new password manager app)? Slam dunk.
| BenFranklin100 wrote:
| >> Oh sweet summer child
|
| I only ever see this expression on nerd sites.
| Justsignedup wrote:
| Sadly this will take off, and be tied to everything apple. From
| a tech perspective I would never use their tools even if they
| are the most convenient. But the reality is most people will
| see this as the only option for password management, and
| 1password isn't free, so for them they will see no better way
| out.
| cletus wrote:
| I would be happy if more people adopted password managers.
| We'd all be a lot better off if they did. And personally I
| don't care which tool they use to get there. But there's
| still too much friction in using a password manager, not all
| of which is the fault of the password manager (eg different
| password requirements, how 2FA verification is handled, the
| antiquated notion of password expiry, some sites split
| username and password onto two pages so you have to verify
| twice, some sites using a third field you have to fill in
| like surname).
|
| So I'm not sure how many people will actually use this just
| because of this friction.
|
| Branding a solution as Apple isn't a guarantee of success. If
| it were, we'd still have Safari for Windows.
| rdm_blackhole wrote:
| I for one will stay away. What if your Apple account get banned?
| Then you lose all your passwords?
|
| It's the same reason I don't trust Google with all my picture or
| documents. At any point in time their algos can flag your account
| for wrong reasons and that's the end of your digital life.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| A password manager that doesn't have an open-source client cannot
| be truely checked. Therefore it cannot be trusted to encrypt them
| before being sent nor to not contain a backdoor.
|
| Apple was part of the PRISM program, we know they gave access to
| our data for mass spying.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Good. I already switched to iCloud Passwords for all my needs,
| but it's not very convenient now. No way to store bank card info,
| no way to store ssh passwords (I'm using fake domain
| myserver.ssh.com, but that's weird), no way to store key files.
| Hopefully it'll get better.
| PlunderBunny wrote:
| I've never understood why there are some passwords that exist in
| the macOS keychain app that don't appear in the Passwords section
| of the macOS System Settings (I think the password for my WiFi
| hotspot is one of them). Can anyone explain this? Will the new
| Password app have 'everything' in it?
|
| I always end up looking in the Keychain app to be sure to find
| what I'm looking for, but I dislike that app because it often
| takes several password entries to get to see a password.
| Angostura wrote:
| So they are reinventing the KeyChain Access app on MacOS?
| offsky wrote:
| If I lose access to my Apple account (via hacking, being banned
| or otherwise), do I also lose access to all my saved password?
| Thats what I want to know.
| musictubes wrote:
| No.
|
| Passwords are saved on your device.
| sam_goody wrote:
| Maybe I don't want "whoever" to be able to get into every one of
| my accounts by coercing Apple to give access to all my passwords.
|
| There are groups that can do that coercion (eg. US and CPC
| governments), and there _may_ be support staff et all in Apple
| that can get the same access.
|
| For the same reason, I was unhappy that Keychain.app is auto
| synced to iCloud (and as per a past thread, even if you disabled
| it it may be reset).
|
| So, of course, I don't have to use their app. Except that I
| suspect it will be built into the OS in a way that makes it hard
| to avoid, such as Keychain.
|
| I would love it if there was a way I could setup my self-hosted
| BitWarden instance to be as integrated as Keychain is, and not
| use Apple or Google for passwords.
| jljljl wrote:
| I want to use this, but this post gave me pause:
|
| https://x.com/blader/status/1800263787746066646
|
| "apple sherlocked 1Password today, so i'd like to remind you that
| your Apple ID is only as secure as your carrier.
|
| if you have 2FA on and get SIM swapped, attackers can lock you
| out of it PERMANENTLY.
|
| last month it happened to me. make sure it doesn't happen to you:
| "
|
| Getting locked out of all my passwords would be pretty
| disastrous. Did Apple announce a change to the account lockout
| procedure as well?
| adam_arthur wrote:
| People should just use a sufficiently complex, memorized,
| password for their money/identity, and then a (mental) algorithm
| that allows deriving unique passwords for other services that are
| less important.
|
| Only have to memorize 2-3 strings and more secure than a password
| manager since there's no third party in the loop.
|
| Password Managers are a huge man-in-the-middle and liability in
| other regards (e.g. you don't have it present on a given device
| or on hand).
|
| SSO from a single set of credentials is a much better solution.
| Multi-factor biometrics even better (outside of PII
| sensitivities)
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| 1Password has gotten progressively worse. It's now an Electron
| app (so it's slower to load), and some features have stopped
| working well.
|
| They took VC funding to pivot to enterprise, anticipating that OS
| vendors would integrate basic password management features (what
| most of their usage at the time) into the OS.
|
| So the consumer experience has been de-prioritized. I will not be
| renewing my 1Password subscription.
| thway15269037 wrote:
| Are they going to remove competitor password manager apps as they
| did with other things they have incorporated into the iOS?
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