[HN Gopher] Mexican Computers: A Brief Technical and Historical ...
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       Mexican Computers: A Brief Technical and Historical Overview
        
       Author : belter
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2024-06-10 14:14 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | CoBE10 wrote:
       | This feels like something Asianometry could make a video about.
        
         | cgannett wrote:
         | Well now I want it and it doesn't exist. ) :
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Methinks we won't have to wait long for it.
        
       | moralestapia wrote:
       | Not a single mention of the Toledo family ...
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28337064
        
         | copperx wrote:
         | That's like failing to mention TempleOS in an article about
         | operating systems.
        
           | radicaldreamer wrote:
           | Someone is gonna do a dissertation on TempleOS one day
        
           | romwell wrote:
           | Indeed. It would be a glaring omission.
        
         | makz wrote:
         | It's a shame
        
         | flobosg wrote:
         | My thoughts exactly. More HN links here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39307700
        
       | thiagoharry wrote:
       | Nice. I know that Brazil also built its first computer in 1972,it
       | was called "Patinho Feio" ("ugly duckling"), had 4KB of memory
       | and can be seen in this picture: https://gizmodo.uol.com.br/wp-
       | content/blogs.dir/8/files/2022...
       | 
       | I was not aware about these Mexican computers. The fact that they
       | had computers that could be programmed in LISP, not only in
       | Assembly, is very cool.
        
         | glimshe wrote:
         | Brazil had a rich home computer industry in the 80s - although
         | a lot of it were slightly modified clones (but not all).
        
           | gnatman wrote:
           | Brazil has a pretty rich home car manufacturing scene-
           | learned about it in this Donut video:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8FFzS_CIHE
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | The paper talks about Brazil in the conclusion:
           | 
           | > In contrast to Mexico[;] Brazil, Singapore, South Korea,
           | and Taiwan invested heavily in technological development in
           | the 1980s. Brazil's case is significant because this country
           | has many similarities to Mexico in terms of its economic and
           | industrial development. Unlike Mexico, Brazil had relative
           | success in creating a computer industry capable of producing
           | its own technology. This was partly due to the decisive
           | support from public and private sectors to create and
           | continue developing a national computer industry.
        
             | no_exit wrote:
             | AI & Society Vol 37, Issue 3 has several articles on the
             | history of cybernetics and computation across Mexico,
             | Brazil, and other Latin American countries, for anyone
             | interested in further reading.
             | 
             | https://link.springer.com/journal/146/volumes-and-
             | issues/37-...
        
       | adl wrote:
       | Here is the original paper in Spanish:
       | https://www.ru.tic.unam.mx/bitstream/handle/123456789/1415/a...
        
       | creer wrote:
       | There are two stages really, right? Pre-microprocessor, it takes
       | some effort to put together a programmable computer. Although now
       | even amateurs implement computers based on 74-series and memory
       | chips without a microprocessor.
       | 
       | After the microprocessor, it was truly very manageable for an
       | amateur anywhere to build a computer. A handful of chips get you
       | there, with no requirement for elaborate PCB or routing.
       | Wikipedia lists the Mark-8 as first published and available as
       | kit, in 1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark-8 - from a
       | chemistry grad student. So, any country is now in. No problem.
       | And "more interesting" university or research projects shift to
       | LISP machines, multiprocessors, coprocessors, etc, or the VLSI
       | chips themselves. Which does not prevent countries from promoting
       | "national microcomputers" (including OS and programming language
       | translated in the local language). Around microprocessors what is
       | also interesting in this second phase are the commercial and
       | "industry" development attempts in various countries as described
       | by Asianometry.
        
       | javier_e06 wrote:
       | I used to assemble Dell's Optiplex 486s at factory in North
       | Austin back in the day (early 90s) before DELL move to Round
       | Rock. Some of the components like the daughter board (a riser
       | board to connect your LAN card or Souncard) was made in Mexico,
       | among other parts. Great article.
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | Thanks for sharing. What surprised me was that there was one
       | group that tried to pull of parallel LISP on Z80s whereas the
       | rest seem to be keen to use existing technology (no own operating
       | system, no own microprocessor chip designs attempted).
       | "Unfortunately, [...] the lack of collaboration and coordination
       | among the various groups designing computers inMexico, and the
       | lack of communication between industry and academia hindered the
       | country's further development in this field."
       | 
       | I found this sentence and subsequent passages to be the most
       | interesting; how come Brazil could pull things off when a similar
       | environment existed in Mexico and Brazil? Are Brazilians "more
       | collaborative" as a tendency than Mexicans?Would be interesting
       | to get more detail on good v. bad policy decisions in both
       | countries that led to it.
       | 
       | Minor corrections: Table 1. "intepreter" -> "interpreter"; "Hasta
       | 64" -> "up to 64"
        
         | huevosabio wrote:
         | My suspicion is that Mexico has had either strong state
         | industry periods or strong private industry periods, but seldom
         | a combination.
         | 
         | Brazil strikes me as having a decent history of industrial
         | policy with the government partnering with private industry.
         | 
         | That's why you have what I think it's a freer market in Mexico
         | but stronger tech-heavy corporations in Brazil (eg embraer).
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I wonder if there are just geopolitical or demographic issues.
         | Brazil is larger than Mexico by a bit, there are a lot more
         | Spanish speaking countries. Spain and Mexico are similar sizes,
         | while Brazil is much larger than Portugal, plus Mexico has to
         | deal with the US, and our endless appetite for talented people,
         | being right next door...
        
         | hcarvalhoalves wrote:
         | Brazil had government incentives for fomenting the national
         | industry as well as high taxation to deter imports.
         | 
         | Nowadays only the high taxes remain (effectively a 100% tax),
         | the current government is trying to implement new incentives to
         | rebuild the national industry though.
         | 
         | Also, I feel Mexico by being under strong influence of the US
         | has been kind of sabotaged economically, while Brazil together
         | with neighboring countries tried to develop a local market
         | (MercoSul).
        
       | akira2501 wrote:
       | > include a small but rich (and sometimes astonishing) variety of
       | systems ranging from research and teaching-oriented computers to
       | high-performance personal computers.
       | 
       | Why exactly would it be "astonishing?"
        
       | pmcjones wrote:
       | The paper notes: "Thus, an annual conference called 'Computers
       | and Their Applications' was organized. It is interesting to note
       | that the third edition of that conference, held in 1961, featured
       | lectures by professors John McCarthy, Marvin L. Minsky6, and
       | Harold V. McIntosh [9]." That conference was also known as the
       | First International LISP Conference -- see
       | https://mcjones.org/dustydecks/the-first-international-lisp-...
        
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       (page generated 2024-06-10 23:00 UTC)