[HN Gopher] Viagra improves brain blood flow and could help to p...
___________________________________________________________________
Viagra improves brain blood flow and could help to prevent dementia
Author : geox
Score : 353 points
Date : 2024-06-08 22:55 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ox.ac.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ox.ac.uk)
| silenced_trope wrote:
| I take 4.5mg cialis (tadalafil) every day.
|
| I think a lot of people do. Viagra is slightly different of
| course.
|
| Both "hims" and "blue chew" now offer a daily mint "multivitamin"
| of tadalafil.
| jjallen wrote:
| You take it for this purpose or why?
| QuantumGood wrote:
| It is prescribed for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH; an
| enlarged prostate) which include difficulty urinating--not
| just for ED
| koolala wrote:
| ouch thank you for explaining your usecase
| pasquinelli wrote:
| now you have my attention.
| abraae wrote:
| Just hijacking to add a public health warning about BPH.
| Like many men as they get older, I was getting up several
| times a night to pee. Thought I would just put up with it
| until it got worse.
|
| I went on a yacht for the weekend, drank quite a few beers
| and crashed to sleep.
|
| I awoke to find out I couldn't pee at all. I can't describe
| how painful things were by the time I staggered into the
| emergency department that evening. Definitely the worst
| experience of my life. A few weeks later a guy was winched
| off a boat by helicopter with the same condition - one of
| his mates had been tasked with catheterising him using the
| rubber fuel hose from the boat's engine, but was
| unsuccessful.
|
| If you are having trouble urinating, seek medical attention
| - don't ignore it.
| justinc8687 wrote:
| Is there some correlation to boats or just happenstance?
| abraae wrote:
| Just coincidence, situations where one might drink too
| much and be isolated from medical care.
| barrenko wrote:
| Ignoring prostate issues for 6 months got me to the edge
| of sanity - I was 26 then and was told there was no way I
| have prostate issues.
| 2-3-7-43-1807 wrote:
| why on a yacht, though? i have a similar problem. shy
| bladder plus tense pelvic base. maybe even somewhat
| increased prostate (i don't know). so peeing is always
| something i need a little privacy for. but everytime i'm
| scuba diving plus out with a boat it's like my prostate
| is locking up completely. extremely weird and
| uncomfortable feeling. on those small boats there is
| never a toilet but there are sneaky options that in
| theory should work but don't. so i'm wondering if the
| wavy motion might have something to do with this problem.
| petereddy wrote:
| I take it on doctor's orders to recover from prostate
| cancer. Improving the circulation in that area should help
| rebuilding tissue.
| paiute wrote:
| There are many off label uses. Pulmonary Hypertension for
| one.
| astrange wrote:
| If you want to pretend to be old, Strattera gives you the
| effects of this as a side effect.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Another weird effect was that my ejaculation and orgasm
| were seconds apart. Don't remember which came first
| (pun). Hated that drug.
| QuantumGood wrote:
| BPH smptoms I started having in my '60s turned out to go
| away when I stopped taking antihistamines for seasonal
| allergies.
| tomcam wrote:
| Looks like 5mg viagra is 10%-20% of the minimum recommended
| dose for viagra's original purpose
| saulpw wrote:
| 10mg works really well in my experience.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| 5mg of tadalafil would be 50% of the typical "as needed"
| dose for its original purpose
| loeg wrote:
| GP is talking about cialis (tadalafil), a completely
| different drug. It is dosed differently from viagra
| (sildenafil).
| tomcam wrote:
| Thanks! I thought they were the same
| snakeyjake wrote:
| I do the same because 20 years ago a roadside bomb blew up
| next to the vehicle I was riding in and caused it to roll
| over and down an embankment and the repeated impacts
| compressed my lumbar discs which after about 10 years
| manifested as degenerative disc disease at L5-S1 and a series
| of disc bulges and scar tissue build-up up and down my lumbar
| region that compressed the nerves leading to my genitals and
| ultimately led to a spinal fusion of that area...
|
| ...and a low dose makes it so my penis functions normally.
|
| It's fantastic, really.
| the_arun wrote:
| It needs prescription, correct?
| cactusplant7374 wrote:
| It's possible to order it from Indian pharmacies or one can
| pick it up while on vacation in the third world.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Which is why _every_ package I get from India (to Canada)
| goes through heavy inspection, to the point that most /all
| Indian pharmacies just won't ship here anymore.
| koolala wrote:
| ummmmmm... no offense if you have dementia and i have no easy
| way to ask about it, sorry this question is personal and you
| could easily just be asking for a friend
| sva_ wrote:
| In the UK you can get it over the counter since a couple years
| back afaik.
| bananamerica wrote:
| Over the counter in Brazil.
| dbdoug wrote:
| And a month's supply of generic tadafila 5mg in Brasil costs
| less than USD$7.00
| ethagnawl wrote:
| In the US, it does but the bar is laughably low. For example,
| you can get a prescription on blewchew.com which gets
| "reviewed" by their "consulting physicians" and have it in hand
| in a day or two.
| loeg wrote:
| In the US, yeah, but arguably it shouldn't be. Probably the
| only good reason for controlling it is risk of priapism from
| people using it stupidly, which is an extremely bad "go to the
| ER now" condition.
| bell-cot wrote:
| Expect a new tsunami of Viagra spam in 3...2...1...
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| I bet you were at least sixty seconds late
| boguscoder wrote:
| Hmm I thought viagra improves blood flow in opposite place but 2
| for price of 1 is great too
| sva_ wrote:
| I think it just causes vasodilation anywhere in the body?
| Spod_Gaju wrote:
| Yes, pretty much everywhere but the eye.
|
| https://www.proteinatlas.org/ENSG00000138735-PDE5A/tissue
| AbstractH24 wrote:
| This makes me wonder -- why do things like stimulants,
| caffeine, and cold medicine help people think clearly?
|
| Aren't they vasoconstrictors?
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Its all the same.
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| Different head
| GlickWick wrote:
| Wasn't this class of medication originally for cardiovascular
| issues, and the whole ED mitigation was a happy marketable
| accident?
| mikercampbell wrote:
| I vaguely recall an anecdote about athletes using it for
| performance improvement, and getting a slightly different stat
| buff
| brandall10 wrote:
| It's commonly used in bodybuilding competitions.
| lukan wrote:
| Now I cannot get that picture out of my head. A crowd full
| of bodybuilders in tight shorts and all on Viagra doing
| workouts.
|
| Each to his own I guess..
| idiotsecant wrote:
| I'm pretty sure you don't just get random erections
| unless you're engaged in activity that you find sexually
| stimulating.
|
| ...so yes, probably.
| rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
| > I'm pretty sure you don't just get random erections
| unless you're engaged in activity that you find sexually
| stimulating
|
| I think that's the case for Cialis but Viagra should make
| you "pop" regardless of what activity you're doing.
| Frost1x wrote:
| That's not how it works at all. As someone with recent
| onset of ED taking viagra regularly, it's been fantastic
| but it just makes me function like I should.
|
| It takes about an hour to take effect (usually less for
| me) and lasts a little over 4 hours with some lingering
| effects for several hours later, with diminishing effects
| towards the 4 and above hours.
|
| If I'm sexually stimulated during that time physically
| and or mentally, everything works like it should
| (erection). If during that time even when I would
| normally see peak effects around the 50 min to 90 min
| mark I'm driving or doing taxes or whatever non-sexually
| stimulating activity one might do, no erection at all.
| throwup238 wrote:
| You don't get turned on by Schedule K-1 Form 1065?
| Nothing gets me hornier than correctly accounting for
| capital equipment depreciation.
| rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
| Bodybuilders at competition time have very low body fat
| and are very dehidrated, it's never an "issue".
| Iulioh wrote:
| And really big hormonal issues caused by the low body
| fat.
|
| Bodybuilders (in the months before competing, while
| cutting) can't get it up even if they wanted to.
| BossingAround wrote:
| I don't know how people imagine viagra working - it's not
| like you take a pill, you continue browsing the internet,
| reading news, and suddenly, a boner lifts your desk.
| robxorb wrote:
| That's pretty much how I imagined it working.
|
| Was news to me to read in a sibling that it also requires
| mental stimulation. I thought it was purely a physical
| inducement by the drug, as many drugs for other purposes
| induce a physical response without requiring mental
| effort.
| lukan wrote:
| Me too. Even xkcd helped spread missinformation about the
| topic ..
|
| https://xkcd.com/779/
| coldtea wrote:
| > _it 's not like you take a pill, you continue browsing
| the internet, reading news, and suddenly, a boner lifts
| your desk._
|
| Aside from the lifting the desk part, that's exactly how
| I imagine it working - and how it should work. You mean
| it also requires special sexual arousal? Well, even that
| it shouldn't be that difficult.
| fostware wrote:
| I imagine some just need a stiff breeze
| bitwize wrote:
| Sounds like an Elton John video.
|
| Most male bodybuilders wear loose shorts (or e.g., track
| pants) for workouts, the tight trunks being worn on the
| contest stage.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| Long term PDE 5 treatment lowers estrogen and increases
| testosterone. As a consequence of that, and its
| cardiovasvular effects, it makes it easier for the body to
| turn fat into energy by fat-browning, to grow muscles and to
| lose fat.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Tadalafil works well for getting more out of your workouts
| too (I take that). Gives you an overall feeling of well-being
| too (better than any cup of joe), I no-bullshit begin my day
| with it.
| jbandela1 wrote:
| That is true that it was originally for cardiovascular issues.
|
| However, it seems that there was at least theoretical
| consideration that it could be used to treat ED
|
| A nice overview is here:
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd2030
| Phoenix5869 wrote:
| Yep. Originally developed for high blood pressure and angina,
| but in clinical trials was found to be more effective in
| treating ED than heart issues.
| ekianjo wrote:
| many drugs are found by accident
| paiute wrote:
| It is being used off label all over the place for heart
| conditions. That's why i take it. The on label use is actually
| pretty annoying for the first few months.
| newswasboring wrote:
| Not trying to be crass here, but does that mean you are just
| walking around with boners all day?
| SeanAnderson wrote:
| Not OP, but their statement read as if that effect wears
| off after the body develops tolerance to the medication.
| So, yes they did for a while (it was annoying) but no they
| don't now (for a few months)
| jawngee wrote:
| Or they grew accustomed to the erections and no longer
| found them annoying, which is how I read it.
| itronitron wrote:
| or other people found them annoying
| xyproto wrote:
| There must be a market for pants that have room for this.
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| I've heard the erection points downwards if you slice the
| ligament holding it up on the top side that could make it
| fit down the leg better
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| Wtf
| MrDrMcCoy wrote:
| Hey, look at all this nope
| royaltjames wrote:
| What a terrible day to have eyes
| pixl97 wrote:
| Yea, seems rather extreme when the doctor could also just
| prescribe phloppycoxin.
|
| Somehow reminds me of another joke...
|
| What do they call a testicle transplant in the US?
|
| "Shooting someone else's children"
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| Sadly I remember wearing pleated pants
| coldtea wrote:
| Or they found a girlfriend and can finally take full
| advantage of them!
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| There is NO tolerance development, on the contrary,
| increasing vascular health by long term PDE5 treatment
| and increasing psychological confidence over time make
| the treatment more effective with time.
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S205011
| 611...
| The_Colonel wrote:
| You're taking about slightly different things - you about
| ED, the other person about "boner all day". They are not
| the same thing.
|
| Slightly off topic, but this is why I don't really trust
| these "no tolerance" claims. That claim is usually very
| specific, while people's understanding of "tolerance" is
| often quite a bit wider.
|
| I take 3 medications which each make "no tolerance"
| claims based on scientific studies. But my subjective
| experience is that all of them do build tolerance in some
| way - the subjective effect does wear off with time and
| taking a break does reduce the tolerance. One possible
| cause is mistaking the intended effect (ED) with side-
| effects (boner all day).
| zolbrek wrote:
| The first time I took sildenafil I had a bad headache and
| nausea, the next couple of times I didn't suffer from
| nausea and the headache wasn't as severe. I don't suffer
| from any side effects now other than my nose getting a
| bit stuffy every now and then, so in that sense I
| developed a tolerance to the medication's side effects.
| The boner effects still work just as reliably as day one,
| no tolerance development for me there.
| rickydroll wrote:
| you are lucky, in addition to the migraines and stuffy
| nose, sildenafil altered my vision making everything
| looked blue tinted. I tried a couple other drugs in that
| class but the migraines never went away.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| No. You get hard easier and it takes longer to go down, but
| without (mental) stimulation, there is no erection. (for
| the vast majority of people taking sane dosages)
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| One trick I remember when I was going through puberty at
| school, I would make good use of tucking under my belt ha!
| standardUser wrote:
| We don't know how many medications actually function. We put
| them inside of increasingly complex animals and study the
| results to see what they do (and hope they don't die). Botox
| was intended to treat muscle spasms. Powerful anti-depressants
| are regularly prescribed for pain from nerve damage in people
| with no mental health issues. And MDMA isn't prescribed for
| anything because the powers that be prematurely decided to ban
| it based on completely fabricated claims, which I assume is
| part of a massive hundred-year conspiracy to make sure
| people... keep dying from alcohol? Not totally sure about that
| last one, but it's hard to deny the facts.
| lebuffon wrote:
| I know a former executive of the company that was developing
| this drug for cardiovascular problems. He told me that they
| sold it because it had this "side-effect" that they couldn't
| get rid of. ;-)
|
| Marketing is the key to business success. (Talking to you, tech
| people)
| grogenaut wrote:
| Is that marketing (advertising) or product market fit?
| 1oooqooq wrote:
| this is the case with almost all drugs. for example almost
| every antidepressants was the result of a weight loss or
| something like that.
|
| drug research is worse than training an LLM. you feed it to
| random people and then compare effects with initial conditions
| and of something looks good you try with more control.
| caycep wrote:
| yes, well, pulmonary hypertension
| bouncycastle wrote:
| All you need is regular exercise to improve blood flow
| mpenick wrote:
| Simple solutions to hard problems seem to be falling out of
| favor.
| Spod_Gaju wrote:
| Actually, exercise lowers cGMP (and low cGMP is what Viagra
| reverses) so your "simple solution" is actually totally
| wrong.
| larsrc wrote:
| Have done regular exercise to improve my Long COVID state for
| 6 months now. It has helped, but it has its limits too. If I
| overdo it, I get worse, but I can't always tell until later.
| And other health issues are limiting what forms of exercise I
| can do.
|
| Hard problems rarely have one simple solution, or they
| wouldn't be hard, would they?
| rsynnott wrote:
| > The OxHARP trial was a meticulously designed double-blind,
| placebo-controlled study involving 75 participants who had
| experienced a minor stroke and showed signs of mild to moderate
| small vessel disease.
|
| I mean, I think if going for a walk were a magic bullet for
| stroke rehabilitation, someone would have noticed by now.
| SamPatt wrote:
| I'm not knowledgeable about stroke rehabilitation
| specifically, but the benefits of walking are extremely
| robust. Especially if you're talking about the difference
| between a totally sedentary lifestyle and one which includes
| a substantial amount of walking.
| koolala wrote:
| deleted?
| koolala wrote:
| wait i read the whole headline now sorry
| koolala wrote:
| wait "prevent?" whats going on? ill read the comments, oh
| wait
| a_wild_dandan wrote:
| "...involving 75 participants who had experienced a minor stroke
| and showed signs of mild to moderate small vessel disease."
| mikercampbell wrote:
| I had my hopes up, but there is the kicker
| Havoc wrote:
| Presumably it would need to be pretty continuous though? So uhm
| like micro dosing ?
| ablyveiled wrote:
| Viagra increases the effect of nitric oxide, which is bad stuff
| when it gets into cytochrome complex iv in the mitochondria
| (IIRC). I would personally suspect based on that, that its
| effects on brain health would be negative in spite of blood flow.
| francisofascii wrote:
| Nitric oxide bad for you? Pretty sure it is good for you
| ,otherwise super foods like beets and leafy greens would be bad
| for you.
| Spod_Gaju wrote:
| Too little NO is bad for you, too much NO is bad for you.
| astrange wrote:
| Leafy greens can be bad if you're sensitive to oxalates.
| Depends how you cook them though.
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Nitric oxide is a crucial part of the biology of life,
| especially animals. Viagra does not specifically impact the
| amount of nitric oxide in the body or the nitric oxide cycle
| mediated by arginine. It instead enhances the effect of NO in
| the smooth muscle. I would not worry about nitric oxide in
| general as it's crucial for the basic functioning of your body.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| 1. "Bad stuff" meaning what?
|
| 2. There's no such thing as increasing "the effect" of such a
| nonspecific chemical as nitrogen oxide. There's tons of
| effects, and it increases some of them. Also, can the active
| ingredient get _into_ mitochondria?
| sva_ wrote:
| > The OxHARP trial was a meticulously designed double-blind,
| placebo-controlled study involving 75 participants who had
| experienced a minor stroke and showed signs of mild to moderate
| small vessel disease. Each participant received sildenafil, a
| placebo, and cilostazol (a similar drug) over three-week periods
| in a randomised order.
|
| I feel like dudes will know if they got Viagra or not? It doesn't
| seem like cilostazol has the same kind of effects on them, or
| does it? So is it really a placebo?
| saulpw wrote:
| Viagra doesn't "make" you hard, you still need sexual stimulus.
| I've taken it and then the sexual opportunity fell through, so
| I went back to coding or whatever, and I didn't notice anything
| different.
| bn-l wrote:
| Dang, that is a sad tale.
| wumbo wrote:
| Severe warning. I have no sexual problems and took a viagra
| once.
|
| It definitely was automatic and persistent.
|
| It was terrible. It wouldn't even go away when I was done
| with it.
| paiute wrote:
| Pseudoephedrine
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| You shouldn't mix uppers and downers.
| paiute wrote:
| It's one of the things they might give in a hospital for
| it.
| rblatz wrote:
| The espresso martini would like to have a chat with you.
| portaouflop wrote:
| Small doses are fine
| wumbo wrote:
| Why the downvotes? People are giving wrong and dangerous
| advice.
|
| Yeah, you can say "well just don't take it if it's not
| prescribed."
|
| But don't bury the truth. If you don't have ED and you take
| it, the GP is wrong.
| loeg wrote:
| > Viagra doesn't "make" you hard
|
| It definitely does.
|
| > you still need sexual stimulus.
|
| Not really, or to a _much_ lesser extent.
| mirekrusin wrote:
| Maybe that's just java language, have you tried with other
| ones?
| chkaloon wrote:
| But it does frequently cause nasal congestion, unrelated to
| sexual simulation
| XajniN wrote:
| It's not unrelated actually, there is some tissue inside
| the nose cavity that is similar to the erectile tissue of
| the penis. That's why the nose gets "stuffy" from
| sildenafil, and that's why you sometimes sneeze when
| aroused.
| rd07 wrote:
| A curious question, is nasal congestion has any
| correlation with high blood pressure?
| XajniN wrote:
| I wouldn't know. Sildenafil lowers the blood pressure, so
| I would expect the negative correlation.
| rjeli wrote:
| See also levomethamphetamine, the mirror image of meth
| found commonly in drugstores in Vick's inhalers, acting
| as a vasoconstrictor
| dbdoug wrote:
| I can (at the ripe old age of 78) confirm this completely.
| Without stimulation, nothing except facial flushing. With
| stimulation, and only with stimulation, a functioning
| erection.
| adastra22 wrote:
| > nothing except facial flushing
|
| What does this mean?
| rzzzt wrote:
| Person takes pill, face gets a bit more rosy than usual.
| I guess it has an effect on small blood vessels
| everywhere.
| adastra22 wrote:
| Thank you.
| jcims wrote:
| >Without stimulation, nothing except facial flushing.
|
| and for me, a stuffy nose and splitting headache.
| gjs4786 wrote:
| Wrong python. Hehehe
| rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
| >Viagra doesn't "make" you hard, you still need sexual
| stimulus.
|
| That's Cialis, Viagra should make you hard even when you're
| in the confession booth talking to a priest.
| myrandomcomment wrote:
| Viagra = standing at attention pretty much no matter what
| is going on. Cialis = you have to have the mind/stimulus.
| noduerme wrote:
| which one makes the priest hard?
| fetzu wrote:
| Viagra was approved in the 90's and Cialis in 2003, so
| I'm guessing none of them..
| zolbrek wrote:
| I have experience with both, this is not the case.
| spencerchubb wrote:
| Maybe, but maybe not. If I told you I'm either giving you
| actual viagra or a placebo, you might get more aroused even if
| given placebo. Because psychologically you'll be thinking
| "There's at least a chance I took viagra right now"
| ekianjo wrote:
| the placebo effect does not work like that. You dont get
| physiological benefits just by thinking you have them.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Being more aroused is not a physiological benefit.
|
| To have no placebo effect, the random patients in the brain
| blood flow trial would need to all be unable to get
| erections, or something.
| hattmall wrote:
| Isn't that the exact definition of the placebo effect?
| ekianjo wrote:
| you dont get antibodies against viruses just by thinking
| you have them.
| tux3 wrote:
| Even if this is obviously true, that does nothing to
| support the original statement. That's a whole different
| claim that you had to fall back to.
|
| Which is a motte-and-bailey type of argument.
| alexey-salmin wrote:
| And yet such thinking can in some cases increase your
| chances of surviving the viral infection. That's the
| placebo effect.
| XajniN wrote:
| A placebo has no physical or physiological effect at all,
| it can only affect what the test subjects think or
| pretend they feel.
| treprinum wrote:
| Viagra doesn't work for everyone; it's not like you take it an
| get automatically erect, even with sexual stimulus. There are
| many reasons for ED, some of them in the brain, some of them in
| hormones. Viagra only helps with cardiovascular ones.
| grugagag wrote:
| I had a highly intelligent and good looking roommate with ED
| and it was devastating that at such a young age he couldnt't
| maintian an erection even with viagra, cialis. I urged him to
| see a doctor and it turns out the 'baloon' down there that
| gets filled with blood also has a valve to keep the blood in.
| He had a misfunctioning valve and blood was leaking out and
| erection was soft. Sad story, as it seems to have had
| psychological effects on this person. Not sure it was much
| they could do at the time other than a manual pump fix. He
| did have a girlfriend though and they found other ways around
| it, though I heard she was cheating on him in search for a
| normal experience.
| spencerchubb wrote:
| Boss: You look... particularly excited to be working today
|
| Me: I'm just trying this new technique to boost productivity
| luxuryballs wrote:
| you seem to be working hard today
| xtracto wrote:
| Oh man...
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Username checks out
| spencerchubb wrote:
| My username is my legal first and last name lmao
| mpenick wrote:
| Saunas, hot baths, and excercise improve blood flow.
| demondemidi wrote:
| This is America: we demand a low-effort, overpriced solution,
| preferably in pill form.
| senordevnyc wrote:
| Not everyone on HN is from the US, and the study in question
| is from the UK...
| demondemidi wrote:
| Do you have jokes where you live?
| jrflowers wrote:
| Do you
| hattmall wrote:
| GOT EM!!
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Saunas and hot baths are low-effort too, but they get pretty
| expensive time-wise.
|
| And these pills are pretty cheap.
| houseplant wrote:
| think about the main consumer base for viagra, and then think
| about who makes the majority of economic/financial decisions
| in this country.
| Frost1x wrote:
| It's more of a testament to a potential beneficial side
| effect of an already widely used drug for something entirely
| different.
|
| I (in America) actually exercise 5-6 days a week with regular
| sauna use afterwards averaging about 2-2.5 hours per total
| session (20 minutes from sauna). I coincidentally even happen
| to take long hot baths frequently (3-4 times a week for an
| hour) as a form of stress relief, relaxation, and it further
| helps with muscle recovery.
|
| Absolutely none of that helps me to a notable degree with
| what the specific pill in question does which I also use
| regularly. In addition, viagra adds an additional say 4 hours
| per day per pill to my normal weekly routine of increased
| blood flow that may help reduce risk of dementia when I'm
| older. That's a big win in my book if it's true as it's
| something I already do and is additive.
| demondemidi wrote:
| Or maybe guys that are embarrassed about it need some other
| cover story?
| larsrc wrote:
| Cognitive Long COVID sufferer here. All the of those help
| indeed, but why not this, too? With a shot.
| pram wrote:
| I've read about people using tadalafil as a nootropic in the
| past. Is there even a difference?
|
| It's so easy to get a prescription these days might be worth a
| shot.
| simple10 wrote:
| Tadalafil (Cialis) can be useful for dealing with depressive
| symptoms. It's commonly used in nootropic circles.
|
| With both viagra and tadalafil, they can negatively effect
| sleep. So it's hit or miss for a lot of people depending on
| depressive or anxiety symptoms.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7306377/
| anigbrowl wrote:
| It's thought to improve neuronal density in the hippocampus and
| also (higher p) to increase bone density. A lot of bodybuilders
| and athletes use it for increased blood flow benefits, partly
| because it seems to have fewer side effects then sidenafil
| (which can cause mild retinal damage leading to a blue tint in
| the vision; probably why Pfizer used a blue tint in all their
| advertising). I have no personal experience with it but the
| theory seems sound.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7321982/
| xgkickt wrote:
| I'd like to see how this effect from Sildenafil compares to
| increased NO levels from eating beets.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| If nothing else, you're making me imagine some new scenes
| involving Dwight Schrute :)
| debo_ wrote:
| _looks at pants_ I see you 've been beeting off
|
| ... Sorry
| paiute wrote:
| This is how i figured out NO would help my heart. Eating cereal
| colored with beet powder. If i understand the magic happens
| when it combines with saliva. So chewing beets might help.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Also arginine and/or citrulline.
| Arthanos wrote:
| 50mg 3x a day, according to the study:
| https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.124.32432...
|
| Seems high to me, but I've never taken the drug. I assume most
| people take it just a few times a week for it's intended use? Is
| anyone aware of research that shows positive benefits to health
| at recreational doses?
| Aurornis wrote:
| That's a standard dose. 3X per day is because it has a short
| half life.
|
| > Is anyone aware of research that shows positive benefits to
| health at recreational doses?
|
| Recreational doses? What does that mean? Excessive vasodilation
| isn't going to be fun. You actually need some vasoconstriction
| to balance your blood pressure. Too much and you're just going
| to get headaches and lightheaded. Excessive vasodilation would
| be expected to worsen cognition.
| ezekiel68 wrote:
| > Recreational doses? What does that mean?
|
| I mean, we don't need to act obtuse here in the name of
| pedantry. Commenter was clearly referring to occasional use
| for on-label indication.
| AbstractH24 wrote:
| So Extended Release Sindafil is about to hit the market hard?
|
| Reminds of me how ER Guanfacine was brought to market as and
| ADHD drugs.
|
| Why invent new drugs when you can put new wrappers on old
| ones?
| pbj1968 wrote:
| I used to buy it over the counter in Mexico for recreational
| purposes, now I have some ancient prescription I don't need
| that's renewed annually for free. A stiff breeze will work, it's
| actually remarkable. It will totally make your skin flush and
| make you feel light headed, not surprised by any of this.
| Spod_Gaju wrote:
| If this is true they altered zinc metabolism might play a role in
| dementia since zinc is the cofactor for PDE5, or that people who
| do not make enough cGMP are prone to dementia (which also means
| they might be low in GTP and GTP regulates glucose-insulin
| secretion so...)
|
| So I think they can do better then "here is a pill give me more
| money".
| WalterBright wrote:
| First NIH said it does:
|
| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/viagra-...
|
| Then it doesn't:
|
| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-dream-stud...
|
| Then it does:
|
| https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2024-06-07-sildenafil-viagra-impro...
|
| Who knows what to believe.
| throwup238 wrote:
| I've always been taught that "a wank a day keeps the doctor
| away" so I believe it.
| pcloadletter_ wrote:
| Maybe these studies are particularly hard
| CydeWeys wrote:
| They certainly are hard, because dementia is something that
| develops over years if not decades. Anytime it takes that
| long to do a single iteration of your experiment, it's hard!
| jfoster wrote:
| Does it need to be, though? You can survey healthy but
| senior populations about their habits, and then over the
| following years track what happens.
|
| If medical records were public, the answers could even be
| in those for any medicines that are prescription based. You
| could then make statements like "A% of patients who took
| drug B within C years did/didn't develop disease D".
| CydeWeys wrote:
| That's not a randomized controlled trial though. You
| might find a correlation, but you couldn't actually
| establish causation, or eliminate hidden variables.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| We have to get over this false meme where people think
| RCTs prove causation and the rest prove correlation.
|
| An RCT doesn't prove causation, it only might observe
| another correlation that contributes to our causal
| inferences based on the convergence of evidence.
|
| We don't have RCTs for most things that you take for
| granted.
| lisper wrote:
| And any time the object of your study is also a treatment
| for ED it gets extra hard. ;-)
| K0balt wrote:
| That seems a reasonable assumption.
| debo_ wrote:
| Don't worry, I caught your innuendo.
| henriquez wrote:
| It's hard science. I take viagra every day and have only
| become moderately demented, so obviously it's working.
| ezekiel68 wrote:
| > Who knows what to believe.
|
| This may be a sincere statement, but I'm not sure it's a
| helpful one. What data do we have? A 2:1 advantage in published
| studies that it does help. Since there is no such thing in
| science as absolute proof of anything, these are pretty good
| odds. Certainly more work will be done in the future to try to
| replicate the results and figure out the one negative outcome.
| But until then, we cannot say that the evidence is in any way
| "equal" on both sides.
| zerocrates wrote:
| The first one is just a combination of some computer modeling
| guessing at possibly useful existing drugs and a look at the
| existing patient data showing that people who were on these
| seemed to have Alzheimer's less. It's very clear that it's
| just an initial step that doesn't actually show there's a
| benefit.
|
| The second is more of that same basic kind of research, but
| weighing in the opposite direction: it showed no association
| with Alzheimer's for people with a specific other condition
| who got these drugs vs. ones with the same condition that
| didn't (also they did some cell culture testing outside the
| body that didn't show any effect/improvement).
|
| This new one is an actual double-blind study giving people
| the drug. Equally important, it's not claiming an effect on
| Alzheimer's, but vascular dementia, a different form of
| dementia that's directly related to blood flow and therefore
| to Viagra's known effects. Of course it's still just really a
| marker for future research on if this is broadly useful.
| engine_y wrote:
| Might be a 2:1 but we also have to take into account the
| level of evidence each study provides.
| HPsquared wrote:
| Studies aren't conducted at random, it's not really valid to
| sample them as though they were. Major selection bias.
| deepfriedchokes wrote:
| This is like the supposed health benefits of drinking red wine.
| I don't know if it's true or not but it's fun to find out.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > Who knows what to believe.
|
| Honest question: do we need to believe one or the other ?
|
| Or can we get away with "it depends" or "it works on some
| subjects and not on others"
| peutetre wrote:
| All I know for certain is there's no dementia in my pants.
| j45 wrote:
| Could be different for different folks
| hk1337 wrote:
| Different strokes for different folks?
| hk1337 wrote:
| Maybe they forgot what they said before?
| stoorafa wrote:
| That second study didn't use as robust of methods as the first,
| and they each used observational data that benefit from
| advanced methods (propensity score analysis).
|
| With an RCT, the evidence is substantially increased.
|
| I'd conclude sildenafil reduces risk of age-associated
| cognitive decline
| doubloon wrote:
| you know what else would?
|
| walkable cities
|
| more time off from work
|
| more third spaces
|
| less air pollution
|
| less inequality
|
| of course none of that "increases productivity or GDP" so the
| ruling class won't consider it. of course when they start dying
| like Japan with low birth rates, their 'solution' is to have a
| government funded dating app instead of doing the obvious.
| astrange wrote:
| Less air pollution does increase productivity (air pollution is
| actually really bad for your mental performance, it's a
| surprisingly strong effect) and it seems to me "the ruling
| class" does consider it seeing as the Clean Air Act exists.
|
| Btw, Japan has walkable cities of course but also has low
| inequality (but not so high wealth). Approximately nothing is
| known to increase birth rates except for being highly religious
| though; it seems they mostly collapse when people have anything
| else to do for fun besides have sex. So basically it's caused
| by being on your phone too much.
| arcimpulse wrote:
| "Japan doesn't have walkable cities" is not a logical
| conclusion one can draw from the grandparent.
| ezekiel68 wrote:
| Nah, man.
|
| I'll take the Capitalism and the pills.
| kredd wrote:
| Given the opportunity, people will do anything else than have
| more than 2 children, which is the requirement to increase the
| population. There's just better stuff to do than spend multiple
| years taking care of the baby. Any argument other than "for the
| greater good" won't sound reasonable to educated population.
| Talking to my friends, especially women who already have a
| child, they keep mentioning the opportunity loss when you go
| through pregnancy and birth (career, vacations, personal growth
| and etc.). You can call it selfish, but it's the reality and
| nobody wants to fall behind. Everything you mentioned is great,
| and I support it, but I doubt it'll convince young people to
| sacrifice at the very minimum 6 years of their life (pregnancy
| + first year).
| hattmall wrote:
| Are people really saying they missed out on "personal growth"
| when they had kids?
|
| Taking care of kids is not that hard or much of a sacrifice
| really. It would be super easy if things were even more
| communal. There's just really not that much great stuff that
| you are missing out on after like 35/40+. In truth most of
| the stuff geared to people in that age range is designed for
| people with kids. I think a lot of people would prefer to
| have more than 2 kids. The major issue is that SO much stuff
| is designed for the family of four. Yeah there's 3rd row
| seating, but it's annoying. Furniture that comes in 2 packs,
| theme parks, restaurant tables, vacation accommodations, etc.
| Because of modern life and the things we are accustomed to
| the logistical management burden of more than two children is
| very significant.
| kredd wrote:
| Not 35+, think of mid/late 20s as it used to be about 20
| years ago. Peak health, some disposable income, educated,
| but also good age to bear a child. If you start having
| children at 35-40, it'll be harder for you to have 3+
| children, but now for health reasons.
|
| Up here in Canada, according to statistics, only 20% of
| couples want to have 3+ children. If I recall it correctly,
| it's not that they have it, but plan to, which might not
| even happen due to socioeconomic reasons.
|
| I don't think majority of young people want to have 3
| children though, as you mentioned. Even if I do an
| extremely unscientific look around in my circles, the
| number of couples who want that is 0. I obviously might be
| in a bubble, but it's a fairly common sentiment especially
| for my age group.
| Engineering-MD wrote:
| For me having kids has been massive personal growth. In some
| ways having kids is synergistic with many of life's goals and
| personal growth. Career, less so, but I can a more capable
| human for being a parent.
| kredd wrote:
| You're most likely right, but people achieve the same
| result with having one or two children as well. It's having
| minimum of 3 children that is needed to have a population
| growth, and that's sometimes a bad life choice for a young
| woman nowadays. Again, back to opportunity loss.
|
| It's way easier for me to babble, because if I was a father
| I wouldn't have to go through pregnancy period.
| Statistically it also shows men want more children than
| women, and that's fair because it affects our physical
| health way less.
| hattmall wrote:
| Are there lower rates of dementia in places that have those
| things?
| 123yawaworht456 wrote:
| "walkable cities" is the solution to virtually everything these
| days, apparently.
|
| I keep seeing this /r/antiwork crap in the most unexpected
| places around here.
| hkt wrote:
| Ah, finally, Rupert Murodch's secret!
| elzbardico wrote:
| Well. too sad I can't take it. It gives me terrible heartburn (an
| acute stomach pain, not a heart related condition) that only
| partially responds to anti-acids such as Alka Seltzer.
|
| Also, extremelly stuffy nose, to the point where basically I need
| to breath by the mouth. And the red eyes, eyes as red as if had
| just smoke the biggest and strongest joint ever.
|
| Yes, I tried to use it recreationally a few times. It is not
| worth the pain for me.
|
| And then the dosage in the study: 50mg 3X times a day? I am not
| sure I could even survive the first day.
|
| Did I mention the headaches too?
|
| EDIT: Before someone asks... At least the on-label effect works
| really well in a recreational setting for me. But it is kind of
| funny to have persistent carbon-steel erections when you're
| feeling miserable with stomach pain and can't breath well. Doing
| oral sex with a stuffy nose is... interesting.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Sildenafil is fairly short acting, so that's probably the
| reason for 3x/day (but a better choice if you don't need a
| whole day of effects because of its side effects like sinus
| congestion).
|
| Tadalafil (Cialis) would probably be a better choice, and is
| used at daily (but reduced) dosing for prostrate issues.
| talldatethrow wrote:
| Were you taking authentic or internet genetics from
| China/India?
|
| Ive gone through a decent amount of generics over the years,
| from several sources, and even though the label is the same,
| they almost all act differently on me. Some give me a flushed
| red face. Some cause a dull headache. Some don't cause anything
| negative thank God. They all work though.
|
| I think the Indian/Chinese ones are laced with garbage and what
| I feel depends on what else was in there.
| exodust wrote:
| The one time I used it over a few weeks was a generic brand.
| The on-label effect worked, but I had one disturbing side
| effect: terrible nightmares.
|
| Unscientific conclusion, but the nights I took it when with
| my new gf at the time, nightmares followed. Binned the
| remaining pills, nightmares vanished. Possibly the generic
| additives factor, or maybe the drug itself. Who knows, never
| tried it again after that.
| flatline wrote:
| Viagra is prn, you should not take it 3x/day. Cialis is a daily
| dose.
| elzbardico wrote:
| I was talking about the regime used in the study. If you read
| the article you'll find that
| SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
| It sounds like you have at least a small allergy to something
| in the drug. The stuffy nose is something I get when I take
| trazodone.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| Nope. You know that erectile tissue? Well, it's not just in
| the penis, it's also in the nose as well. Hence the stuffy
| nose. It's not allergies, it's the same sort of tissue having
| the same response.
|
| That "pump" in your nose you may feel just prior to a good
| sneeze? That's those tissues swelling with blood.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Yeah I occasionally take it or tadalafil for BPH/prostatitis
| because they have less side effects than alpha blockers. I've
| got GERD and a hiatal hernia and, man, it really fires it up.
| Chewing gum sort of helps. I also only take half of a 25mg.
| I'll sometimes get the stuffy nose and rarely a headache but
| the stomach issues almost prevent me from using it. I've sort
| of grown used to tolerating extreme stomach pain though, so I
| still use it if I really need it.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Man. Based on personal experience at my family. I bet you're
| carefully keeping tabs on your stomach with a doctor, but if
| not, don't grow used to tolerate extreme stomach pain. I've
| seen stomach cancer in my family, and I would like to
| encourage you do whatever you can to minimize the risk for
| you.
| vidarh wrote:
| Having tried it recreationally and also getting the stuffy
| nose, NSAIDs counter that effectively for me. Of course if you
| also get acute heartburn you want to be careful with combining
| it with something that can be tough on the stomach...
|
| Talk to your doctor about whether you can combine with a proton
| pump inhibitor like Omeprazole. There's are downsides (in
| particular, sustained use can mask other things, including
| serious issues) but I've not had a single episode of heartburn
| since I was out on it.
| WesolyKubeczek wrote:
| > Also, extremelly stuffy nose, to the point where basically I
| need to breath by the mouth. And the red eyes, eyes as red as
| if had just smoke the biggest and strongest joint ever.
|
| Looks like an allergic reaction; it could be not so much in
| sildenafil itself, but what they use as filler for the pills.
| vidarh wrote:
| Stuffy nose is a common side effect of sildenafil itself. UK
| NHS lists common side effects as anything affecting more than
| 1 in 100 patients.
| adolph wrote:
| canned ham health benefits still elude science
| largbae wrote:
| I always wonder if there is a circular logic flaw in survey
| studies of recreation and dementia: could it be that the folks
| who are chasing Viagra or running marathons don't get dementia,
| because the ones with dementia don't pursue these activities?
| acchow wrote:
| This is known as a confounding bias. A quality study should try
| to eliminate the obvious ones, but of course there may still he
| an infinite number of hidden confounding variables.
| loeg wrote:
| This isn't a survey; it's an RCT.
| standardUser wrote:
| The 3x daily dosage is surprising to me because the one notable
| warning that comes with the prescription is to never take it more
| than once in a day. In fact, I would go as far to say that if
| you've been prescribed Viagra the only things you know about it
| are: it will help you get boners, you should talk to a doctor if
| you have a heart condition, and you should _never_ use it more
| than once a day. The warning seemed extra ominous because it was
| basically the only warning, so I adhered to it fairly strictly at
| first.
|
| About a year later I talked to some gay male friends and they all
| said that was ridiculous, that they freely take it multiple times
| per day, and I that should too. So now I do (as needed) and it's
| worked very well. Plus, the subscription I get through Hims sends
| me a giant bottle of 20mg pills (at an unreasonably high cost) so
| I am able to easily dose myself instead of being given a one-
| size-fits-all dosage, like we get with most medications. My low
| dose is 3 pills and my high dose is 5 pills.
|
| Now there are many options beyond Viagra including a ton of
| intriguing combination drugs that use multiple erection drugs
| and/or other drugs with tangential effects. But I like that I
| know how Viagra works for me personally based on experience. I
| think we all underestimate how much drugs very from person to
| person. Plus, now that I think about the lack of warnings that
| come with Viagra, it actually seems like an unusually benign
| drug.
| UberFly wrote:
| A typical dose of Viagra is 25,50 or 100 mg, so your 3-5 doses
| of 20 mg isn't even atypical. Also, there are plenty of
| warnings that come with Viagra usage. You may have not taken
| the time to read them.
| nothrowaways wrote:
| What a coincidence
| fny wrote:
| Viagra has also been shown to reduce period cramps.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23925396/
| ofrzeta wrote:
| One trial with 62 patients and then "Since we did not meet our
| sample size due to the loss of funding and could not confirm
| our primary hypothesis, larger studies of longer duration,
| likely multi-center, are needed to confirm the findings from
| this study. "
| kabes wrote:
| It also increases blood flow to the scalp, which helps against
| hair loss.
| madmask wrote:
| Try some citrulline
| bionhoward wrote:
| Just a word to the wise, viagra can cause tinnitus by putting too
| much blood through tiny vessels in your ears. Be careful of high
| doses while hydrated and exercising
| noduerme wrote:
| isn't, er, vigorous exercise part of what people expect when
| they take viagra?
| galdosdi wrote:
| Depends. The kind of exercise you're thinking can be done
| vigorously and for a long period -- or, for some people, it
| could be a quick 5-10 minute thing that feels vigorous but
| really doesn't involve that much muscular effort.
| sushid wrote:
| It's common to have a 1 hour running or a lifting session 3-4
| times a week but kudos to you and/or my condolences to your
| partner if your vigorous exercise lasts that long every time.
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| Off-topic but related... I started Vyvanse about 3 months ago
| and the only negative side effect so far is tinnitus. It's
| bloody loud :(
| hooverd wrote:
| It can also be caused by SSRIs and NDRIs and benzos! Great
| side effect if you're already feeling depressed. Although
| benzos can also help, depending. I think 80% of cases are a
| brain thing and not an ear thing, but because ENTs and
| audiologists have exactly one hammer (hearing aids), we get
| fuck all for research.
| cpill wrote:
| I wonder if it would help with the brain fog of long Covid...?
| larsrc wrote:
| Me too! This small study suggests so:
| https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT00598585
| treprinum wrote:
| It also seems to cause melanoma, so...
| Pomergranate/beetroot/garlic seem safer. Arginine/citrulline
| perhaps as well (all of them increase NO in the blood).
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178948/
|
| https://www.drugwatch.com/viagra/melanoma/
|
| "In 2014, a study published in JAMA Internal Medicine found that
| the use of sildenafil, more commonly known by its brand name
| Viagra, within 3 months prior to the study's start increased the
| likelihood of developing melanoma by as much as 84 percent.'
| loeg wrote:
| It is _associated_ with increased risk of melanoma, but not
| known to _cause_ it. The third variable is expected to be
| lifestyle / socioeconomic.
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2338254
|
| > Men taking PDE5 inhibitors had a higher educational level and
| annual income, factors that were also significantly associated
| with melanoma risk.
| treprinum wrote:
| Still, it's a food for thought. I know correlation is not
| causation but there might be some link that hits some folks
| unexpectedly hard. I was taking sildenafil to improve brain
| hypoperfusion from long covid and one day a fast growing mole
| appeared on my arm that reached 2cm diameter in a few days -
| the suspicion was on nodular melanoma or pyogenic granuloma
| and it turned out to be the latter. I stopped taking
| sildenafil immediately. I am in the socioeconomic group they
| mentioned.
| seydor wrote:
| between this and cialis helping with prostate cancer, i wonder if
| the erection is just a side effect
| AbstractH24 wrote:
| One that is very profitable
| pylua wrote:
| Maybe now viagra opens up to older women, not just men ? It will
| double their market ?
| bitwize wrote:
| So it works as well for the big head as it does for the little
| head. Interesting, but somehow I feel I should have figured this
| was the case.
| dkekenflxlf wrote:
| @ALL:
|
| Guys (esp!), for real-pros, Viagra is a toy - instead, they use
| Taladafil/etc.
|
| (Source: Boner all day _actually_ hurts ;-)
| jgalt212 wrote:
| There's a joke / counterpoint in here about men with erections
| thinking less clearly than men without erections.
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