[HN Gopher] Records of Pompeii's survivors have been found
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       Records of Pompeii's survivors have been found
        
       Author : Stratoscope
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2024-06-08 18:09 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theconversation.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theconversation.com)
        
       | spacecadet wrote:
       | Nothing changes. A buddy always says nothing has actually changed
       | in 20,000 years... Based on the description and other accounts of
       | the bodies, sometimes found to be attached to the buildings...
       | that the wealthy survived while abandoning anyone else not "worth
       | it".
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | _Not all the survivors of the eruption were wealthy or went on
         | to find success in their new communities_
         | 
         | The guy lists 2 semi-wealthy survivors, then says the above. He
         | also says:
         | 
         |  _I took Roman names unique to Pompeii or Herculaneum - such as
         | Numerius Popidius and Aulus Umbricius - and searched for people
         | with those names who lived in surrounding communities in the
         | period after the eruption._ and found _200 survivors in 12
         | cities_
         | 
         | So he's only searching on unique names, which is an
         | (understandable) bias, and only found 200 out of thousands of
         | people, while saying there are way too few bodies.
         | 
         | There's literally zero evidence to support the fact that the
         | rich bugged out, and only the poor died. In fact, there's
         | evidence to the contrary, with multiple poor people found, and
         | lots of those that didn't do well, their wealth unknown prior
         | to te event.
         | 
         | Frankly how would the rich even do that? Lots of houses, rich
         | and poor, left with belongings. How would the rich prevent
         | escape?
         | 
         | Walking away was likely sufficient.
        
       | csense wrote:
       | Pretty neat.
       | 
       | I'm a bit upset that, toward the end, the author puts politics in
       | an article about history and archaeology, and does it poorly to
       | boot.
       | 
       | For their analogy of "How were the survivors treated today," they
       | cite Border Patrol migrant camps and NYC tent cities.
       | 
       | However, that's not really a good comparison. In both of those
       | examples, the displaced people are foreigners fleeing political /
       | economic disasters (or just seeking a better life).
       | 
       | A closer comparison might be Hurricane Katrina, where the
       | displaced people were (mostly) legal residents or citizens,
       | fleeing a natural disaster.
        
         | hnbad wrote:
         | > the author puts politics in an article about history and
         | archaeology
         | 
         | That's a very "end of history" level of understanding of
         | history and archaelogy. History is inherently political because
         | it's shaped by our own politics as much as it is a study of the
         | politics of the past. Even if we don't do it explicitly, we
         | look at history through the lens of our present with all the
         | baggage that means. And it can help reflect on similar
         | situations in the present to learn both how humans handled
         | those situations in the past and how that worked out.
         | 
         | > and does it poorly to boot
         | 
         | That I'm willing to agree on. It does seem apropos of nothing
         | and very hamfisted even if I may agree with the author's
         | general message. I think the problem is actually greater than
         | you say: even the concept of "foreigners" vs "citizens" doesn't
         | translate well as Rome distinguished between foreigners,
         | residents and citizens differently than we do today and "race"
         | didn't exist as a meaningful distinction in the same way. Even
         | the nuances of the differences between different foreign
         | "nations" worked differently so the concept of refugees doesn't
         | really translate all that well to begin with.
        
           | wslh wrote:
           | > That's a very "end of history" level of understanding of
           | history and archaelogy.
           | 
           | No, yours is a kind of fallacy and called Presentism [1].
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(historical_anal
           | ysi...
        
         | MSFT_Edging wrote:
         | > A closer comparison might be Hurricane Katrina
         | 
         | Who were notoriously housed in toxic trailer homes.
        
         | EnigmaFlare wrote:
         | Yes. These were local people who could already function in the
         | same kind of society and probably still had their wealth,
         | business skills, social connections, etc. Even today, those
         | types of refugees don't need to live in tents.
        
       | saaaaaam wrote:
       | It's just incredible that there are still records that exist that
       | can be used to tell this story.
        
       | GeekyBear wrote:
       | A surviving historical account of the eruption, for those
       | interested:
       | 
       | > This is an English translation of the two letters written by
       | Pliny the Younger to the Roman historian Tacitus. The first
       | letter describes the journey of his uncle Pliny the Elder during
       | which he perished. The second one describes his own observations
       | in a town across the bay.
       | 
       | https://igppweb.ucsd.edu/~gabi/sio15/lectures/volcanoes/plin...
        
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