[HN Gopher] The Backrooms of the Internet Archive
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Backrooms of the Internet Archive
        
       Author : passing
       Score  : 362 points
       Date   : 2024-06-08 15:17 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.archive.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.archive.org)
        
       | Jun8 wrote:
       | If you think that this would be right up SCP's alley, you'd be
       | wrong, it's not included (yet). Here's a Reddit discussion on the
       | topic:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBackrooms/comments/bs2zog/why_th....
       | The SCP 682 referred to here is, of course, the undestroyable
       | creature: https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-682.
        
       | fourteenfour wrote:
       | Now someone should make a game where you design indoor rc car
       | tracks in the backrooms.
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | Someone should convert an unused warehouse or shopping mall
         | into a real-world backroom maze escape game.
        
           | Schiendelman wrote:
           | There should be more things in the world like Meow Wolf -
           | this is an aspect of that in person exploration experience.
           | 
           | I wonder if anyone has a list of that kind of space.
        
           | TMWNN wrote:
           | Relevant: <https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3008>
        
         | TrianguloY wrote:
         | Not sure about design, but for driving them you have re*volt
         | 
         | And, as expected, there is a backroom level:
         | http://revoltzone.net/m/tracks/70429/Backrooms (There are
         | probably others, this was the first result after a search)
        
       | jsjohnst wrote:
       | I remember seeing this before. Curious how / who found the
       | original in the Wayback archives? Didn't see that mentioned in
       | the article.
        
         | frob wrote:
         | Here's a YouTube video covering the discovery process.
         | Ultimately, one person found it, but they were part of a wider
         | team piecing together many parts of a puzzle, including
         | outdated phone image numbering schema. I found it to be a
         | worthwhile summary that doesn't really assume the viewer has
         | much previous knowledge.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/-1EKIIM3ShI
        
       | jprete wrote:
       | I didn't know about the old meme, but the image made me
       | immediately think of The Stanley Parable. Not surprising since
       | TSP is probably a descendant of the meme.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | Stanley Parable outdates Backrooms by like 8 years. But they're
         | all basically about liminal spaces.
        
           | worble wrote:
           | TSP isn't really about liminal space, it's about narrative
           | decision making and the consequences of trying to account and
           | develop for that in video games. I suppose you could say that
           | it uses the liminal space of a barren office to achieve an
           | awkward atmosphere that is meant to make you question
           | everything about it, but that's a really small aspect of the
           | game as a whole.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | Sure. But it can be about a lot of things. And almost the
             | entirety of the game takes place in liminal spaces.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Most of my dreams take place in similar places. Often though
           | they are falling apart -- like leaking ceilings, etc. Always
           | they are labyrinthian, almost always it is night time
           | (although the frequent windowlessness of the places would not
           | make that obvious). They are often populated though -- maybe
           | college-age students, sometimes more like a mall.
           | 
           | I've always been fascinated by the _place_ of my dreams. I
           | have asked around but haven 't had anyone confirm having
           | similar dreams.
           | 
           | When I was a teen (and a bit younger) I had night terrors. I
           | did not know the name of them at the time (no internet yet).
           | But sometimes they featured a room that extended so far in
           | every direction that you could not see the walls. Something
           | like an all-white parking garage, I suppose. I feel like a
           | family friend a little older than me tried once to hypnotize
           | me when I was young -- they might have used a similar
           | description: a room white that extends to far that you cannot
           | see the walls. Perhaps that was the source of the imagery in
           | the night terror dreams.
           | 
           | I wrote a game decades ago where you (well, a paper airplane)
           | wander a seemingly endless house trying to escape. I am not
           | sure which came first though -- the dreams of an endless
           | space or the game.
        
             | jwells89 wrote:
             | Wonky spaces seem to be a fairly common thing in dreams.
             | One that I used to have every so often was walking around
             | inside what at first seemed like a normal room, then
             | looking up to see that the ceiling was several tens of
             | stories high, as if the building were a skyscraper with
             | only a single tall and narrow room inside. The unexpected
             | height of the ceiling always caused an intense sensation of
             | vertigo, causing me to fall backwards in my dream (and
             | sometimes wake up IRL).
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | I'm surprised that despite all the talk about liminal spaces,
         | no one mentions the lack of windows in those spaces and how
         | much they add to the creepyness.
         | 
         | I found this especially noticeable in Stanley Parable. Or
         | rather, the offices there have windows, but they are all
         | opaque, showing just a featureless white (and a few are mounted
         | on interior walls, making you doubt whether they really are
         | windows or just LED panels).
         | 
         | At least for me this had an enormous effect to the drearyness
         | and general feeling of disorientation in the game.
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | The notion of vast abandoned underground "backrooms", maybe
         | with a couple people in hazmat suits on their way through also
         | perfectly fits into the Westworld TV series. Though of course
         | they didn't go with an 70's office vibe.
         | 
         | But the copy-pasta for the image builds on those influences,
         | not the other way around.
        
       | Thorrez wrote:
       | >This agnostic, wide-ranging crawl likely represented both the
       | original source of the image
       | 
       | Why do they say it's likely that the person who first posted the
       | image on the message board got the image from the Internet
       | Archive?
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | I thought the same thing. If you look at the crawled page, it's
         | only one of like 20 images that survived.
         | 
         | So either the crawl got lucky and saved the only relevant
         | image, or there is survivor bias.
         | 
         | Then again, the actual crawl might be triggered precisely
         | because the image was linked.
        
           | kwstas wrote:
           | What do you mean there is survivorship bias? That the only
           | image used is the one that survived? Or it survived because
           | it was used?
           | 
           | Something I noticed was that all other jpgs in this site have
           | a lager number in the filename, for example:
           | www.hobbytownoshkosh.com/Dsc00348.jpg
           | 
           | So maybe the crawler that saved this webpage had a limit on
           | how many suburls it would capture and it sorted by name and
           | then stopped at around Dsc00161.jpg, which is the name of the
           | image in question. Though there is a Dsc00164 that is lost so
           | it seems kind of unlikely...
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | That might have been the 161st image taken by an old Sony
             | camera.
             | 
             |  _Cyber-shot model names use a DSC prefix, which is an
             | initialism for "Digital Still Camera"._
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-shot
        
               | kwstas wrote:
               | The filename for sure comes from the camera. My point was
               | that the crawler stopped there and did not pick up the
               | other images on the page because all of them have a
               | higher number in the name and it stopped at an artificial
               | number of sub urls
        
         | jsjohnst wrote:
         | My guess is because the image didn't exist in other archives
         | and it's a very obscure site so why would someone have seen
         | that? More probable they stumbled on something random like this
         | in the wild or on Internet Archive?
        
           | dooglius wrote:
           | Why would someone have been looking at an very obscure site
           | on the Internet Archive? Why is that more likely than looking
           | at it on the web?
        
             | sparky_z wrote:
             | Because the obscure site had not existed for years when the
             | copypasta first appeared. So someone would have had to have
             | found that obscure site and then saved the image for years
             | before using it.
             | 
             | Honestly, both options (website or archive) sound pretty
             | unlikely to me. I'm wondering if instead it was a third
             | option: maybe the originator of the copypasta was the
             | person who originally took the photo. It would make sense
             | for them to remember the event and go pull a good image out
             | of their photo folder.
        
             | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
             | They have an index of all images. Maybe someone picked a
             | random image (I don't see a Random button, but one could
             | exist?) or happened to look at this index the day it was
             | added, or just clicked through to 2002 looking for
             | something nostalgic https://archive.org/details/image
        
       | exitb wrote:
       | I love and appreciate the Wayback Machine, but using it is such a
       | bittersweet experience. So many of the crawls are incomplete.
       | I've managed to find pages that hosted content of interest to me,
       | only to find that particular resource unavailable. And if it's
       | not on the Wayback Machine, it's just gone forever. Feels like
       | tracking an old friend down to their tombstone.
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | I quite like the fragility of it, it makes it more apparent
         | that everything is transient. In a way I wish the IA had a half
         | life on content, that it would decay over time, pages and
         | images would be randomly deleted. Little by little it would rot
         | and become nothing, a reflection of humanity.
         | 
         | I suppose that's the internet itself...
        
           | 627467 wrote:
           | > everything is transient
           | 
           | I agree. Permanence should be tied to individual wills, not
           | collective inertia. If you want a permanent thing, work for
           | it, host it and publicize it
        
             | PKop wrote:
             | Sort of describing entropy yes? All things will decay
             | unless external energy is continually applied to the system
             | to maintain an ordered state.
        
             | andybak wrote:
             | Every future historian is hissing at you right now.
             | 
             | So much of the past is completely opaque to us because of
             | decay, intentional destruction and lack of interest. I
             | think there's a moral imperative to preserve.
        
               | samwillis wrote:
               | Things that are important to society will naturally be
               | preserved. I believe in the moral right to be forgotten.
               | 
               | We cannot, and should not, preserve all of knowledge
               | forever.
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, I love the internet archive, and the
               | team behind it are incredible. As a resource it's very
               | important to maintain and preserve. However, I'm sure
               | that at some point, either due to the economics of it or
               | through hardware failure, the content saved by the AI
               | will begin to be lost. I don't see that as a bad thing.
        
               | user_7832 wrote:
               | If someone requests for their content to be deleted, IIRC
               | the IA does it. In other cases however I don't see the
               | need to remove old(er) content. Particularly also because
               | older content/webpages were far lighter than modern
               | equivalents - you may need to delete 10 or even 100 old
               | website archives to store one new one.
               | 
               | Decay is natural, but so is the human/animal urge to stop
               | it.
        
             | drsopp wrote:
             | Yes. Both content but also the technology to display this
             | content. I put this on my personal web page 21 years ago:
             | 
             | http://trondal.com/magisk/magic.html
             | 
             | At the time (or maybe a few years before), clicking this
             | button would show a dropdown menu linking to a bunch of web
             | pages. Now, the button doesn't work anymore and I think
             | most of the links go to missing content.
        
         | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
         | > Feels like tracking an old friend down to their tombstone.
         | 
         | I did this yesterday. He went in 2016.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | Definitely feels incomplete. It should at least make an attempt
         | to capture videos from the crawl. It feels like it does less
         | than what yt-dlp would do if given that URL.
        
       | Chinjut wrote:
       | How did people hunting for the origin of this image discover the
       | random niche website preserved by the Internet Archive that this
       | image happened to come from?
        
         | msephton wrote:
         | The original URL of the photo was actually found on Twitter,
         | where it had been posted in 2011. Wayback Machine was used only
         | for the final confirmation. It's curious that this is not
         | mentioned in the article, but I suppose it ruins the narrative.
         | 
         | I read about the whole thing last week at 404media, via waxy
         | blog, which is a much more comprehensive article:
         | https://archive.is/sj846
        
           | oooyay wrote:
           | That is actually kinda fascinating given that it's directly
           | in opposition to this blog post. I wonder who's telling the
           | truth?
        
             | Zambyte wrote:
             | The legend lives on :)
        
             | msephton wrote:
             | The people who found it are telling the truth. The trail of
             | discovery was 4chan then Twitter then Wayback Machine.
        
         | beastoftheweast wrote:
         | Up until last month, the earliest known post/repost of the
         | Backrooms image was an archived 4chan post from 2018, but it
         | was believed to have been taken in 2012 or earlier based on the
         | filename. So people have been looking for earlier posts/reposts
         | of the image for years in an effort to uncover its origin.
         | 
         | During the recent successful search, the searchers trawled
         | 4chan archives for early-2010s posts with similar image
         | metadata to the 2018 Backrooms image copy. These archives were
         | missing the original image files and thumbnails, but still
         | retained some image metadata that could be filtered on
         | (dimensions, image file md5s etc.) One of the searchers came up
         | with a list of posts which might have originally included the
         | image file, based on image metadata and context. Another
         | searcher plugged the image md5 of one of these candidate posts
         | (an April 2011 post recently added to an archive) into other
         | archives, and hit on a post with a thumbnail matching the
         | original Backrooms image from March 2011. At this point they'd
         | finally found an earlier copy of the image, after years of
         | searching.
         | 
         | Soon after, one of the searchers plugged the filename of the
         | March 2011 post into Twitter's search, and came up with a post
         | from 2019 which included the physical address and a link to the
         | image source (this Twitter user had already found the source
         | before the search had really begun, but it had gone unremarked
         | upon at the time). The website had been replaced with blogspam
         | in the interim. A searcher plugged this domain into
         | waybackmachine and found a page with the image and a full
         | explanation (it was taken during the renovation of a commercial
         | property in Wisconsin).
         | 
         | Post from one of the searchers here:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/backrooms/comments/1d3pkif/how_the_...
        
           | temporarely wrote:
           | this poor guy keeps getting ignored. here is the tweet
           | https://x.com/rkfg_me/status/1130028610700664832
        
           | Thorentis wrote:
           | Wait so, the Internet Archive was not involved at all in
           | finding the original, but since the image exists in the
           | archive, IA have written a blog post claiming to be crucial
           | to its discovery? Seems like taking credit for something they
           | didn't do to be honest. They didn't even mention the Tweet in
           | the blog post which was essential to finding the image, which
           | makes me think they want that part overlooked.
        
             | msephton wrote:
             | I think it's part of the recent trend to not mention
             | Twitter/X because of its owner.
        
         | radicality wrote:
         | I didn't read the details of how they did it, but it would be
         | cool if the Internet Archive exposed some kind of image hash /
         | perceptual hash / similarity metric database, so that this task
         | could have been a quick lookup in such a database.
        
         | mortenjorck wrote:
         | There's actually a wonderful little mini-doc on YouTube that
         | just came out the other day, produced by one of the people
         | involved in the sleuthing:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1EKIIM3ShI
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | Almost all good memes seem to be extracted from some random
         | niche website.
        
       | textfiles wrote:
       | See you all in the backrooms
        
         | textfiles wrote:
         | Anyway, I'm sorry if some people are reading this hastily
         | written blog entry to seem like the archive is taking credit
         | for the process of discovery being done by people. The phrase
         | likely does not mean definitely and perhaps I should have used
         | a different word when I wrote the entry. But the fact remains
         | that the wayback machine is the only place you can see the
         | image in the context of its original website, and that is only
         | happening because the archive is doing such a general crawl.
         | That's all I wanted to get across, all hail the wayback
         | machine, have a great day.
        
           | boustrophedon wrote:
           | Thanks for writing the blogpost! I think it's perfectly valid
           | as a fun demonstration of the utility of the wayback machine.
        
       | Use wrote:
       | Gotta love the found footage videos' photorealism and camera
       | effects too. One of the reasons why a "retro" motif is commonly
       | seen in these videos is to make it more convincing.
       | 
       | What found footage video do you assume to be most convincing? And
       | how do you think photorealistic found footage videos will be made
       | in the future?
        
         | maximus_prime wrote:
         | Adding those imperfections to the video in post allows your
         | brain to fill in the blanks and make it look more realistic. If
         | it were a 4K video the CGI would be a lot more noticeable.
         | 
         | I think the retro look will probably stay as I feel it's part
         | of the aesthetic. But maybe in the future we'll have backrooms-
         | style videos of the current times, and then I imagine the
         | retro/vintage aesthetic will go away.
        
           | Use wrote:
           | How do you think CGI for photorealistic found footage would
           | be optimized? What new methods might be used?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-06-08 23:00 UTC)