[HN Gopher] Yes, you can play Duck Hunt without a television (bu...
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Yes, you can play Duck Hunt without a television (but I can't)
Author : zdw
Score : 163 points
Date : 2024-06-07 20:02 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (nicole.express)
(TXT) w3m dump (nicole.express)
| myrloc wrote:
| Anyone have ideas on why there aren't more of these point and
| shoot at home games? I loved the ones I played as a kid. It
| always felt like something relegated to arcades
| jareklupinski wrote:
| the most recent one i had at home was the Resident Evil rails
| shooter for the Wii
|
| it was really fun with a friend
| paulbgd wrote:
| There might not be many new games, but for the old games
| getting a used crt is free and the consoles are cheap too! I've
| been playing through the ps2 light gun games and it really does
| feel like you've got an arcade at home.
| fardo wrote:
| The CRT requirement has pleasantly eroded recently.
|
| A kickstarter a few years back for the Sinden light gun [1]
| realized that by using webcams, some quick image processing
| and perspective transforms, you could make a light gun work
| anywhere and could get real-time performance on non-CRTs by
| essentially adding a small border region of the screen,
| making it work on essentially any monitor. He filmed and
| wrote extensive technical breakdowns about the build process
| and mechanics at play, which were great.
|
| The maker also seems to have had a solid understanding of
| what made those old light gun games cool, because he made
| sure to build versions with solenoid-based recoil as well as
| the big chunky metal foot pedal you'd use for games like time
| crisis.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/grcGpr_8W9Y?si=z800V7f62dDS1KGs
| MegaDeKay wrote:
| Sinden is no longer the way to go. Most lightgun
| enthusiasts have now gone the Gun4IR route [0]. It uses the
| IR sensor from a WiiMote plus a microcontroller in the gun
| (either a gutted commercial controller like the PS Guncon,
| a modified Nerf or similar, or something straight up 3d
| printed) and four IR LEDs placed around a monitor / TV at
| the midpoints of each each. This system is extremely
| accurate and there is no flashing border around the screen
| like with Sinden. Unfortunately, the whole shooting match
| (see what I did there?) is closed source code and (as of
| now) Window's only for the calibration-based PC software.
|
| The current open source competitor to Gun4IR is the Samco
| light gun [1]. It uses four LEDs as well, but with two on
| the top edge and two on the bottom edge of the screen. A
| couple Wii LED bars will do the job here as well. I don't
| think it is quite as accurate as the Gun4IR as I don't
| think it accounts for perspective correction if you move
| from the position it was originally calibrated at. But...
|
| Sam & a few others are readying a new design called
| OpenFire [2] that will be at least on par accuracy-wise as
| Gun4IR and will be fully open source and cross platform. It
| should be available relatively soon. Pair this with the
| PiCon [3] and you have a lightgun with a pretty crazy
| feature set. All the guns mentioned support some kind of
| solenoid & rumble support, but the PiCon kicks it up a
| notch with exclusive OpenFire features like an OLED
| display, NeoPixel LED, accelerometer, and analog joystick.
|
| [0] https://www.gun4ir.com/
|
| [1]
| http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=160517.0
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE9a-fsnMwU
|
| [3] https://diylightgun.com/lightgun-details/?lgid=506
|
| edit: make more specific reference to OpenFire
| paulbgd wrote:
| That's true, but crts are basically free and plug and play
| while looking extra crispy. I think if you're okay spending
| a lot more to get an equivalent setup those are good
| options, but harder to recommend.
| itishappy wrote:
| It was a major genre on the Wii. The Wii Zapper was an optional
| attachment that gave the WiiMote a pistol grip. Titles off the
| top of my head include CoD III, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption,
| Resident Evil: The Umbrella Cronicles, Resident Evil: The
| Darkside Chronicles, and House of Dead II & III Return.
|
| I think the main reason that it never took off much was that it
| kinda sucked. It worked great when it worked, but the tracking
| was often glitchy and it was super frustrating when you're
| counting bullets to have the occasionally shot go offscreen. I
| have a feeling we had a higher tolerance for this with Duck
| Hunt due to the novelty and arcade games due to the format. (I
| feel like arcade games tend to avoid showing you a reticle for
| this very reason, but I don't have data to back this up.)
|
| That being said, I still ended up beating Metroid and both
| Resident Evils, so they were still super fun!
|
| Also, I was in Dave and Busters recently and they had Time
| Crisis 5. Beat that too!
| jrm4 wrote:
| FWIW, I had until now completely forgotten that I was playing
| these games at home, on a PC with a "shooter" experience.
|
| They were mouse controlled, but I had a gyration air mouse --
| (with the clever thing of instead of requiring infrared, it
| just had a 3rd button that had to be depressed for actual
| movement)
| cubefox wrote:
| I'm surprised you call it glitchy. I heard elsewhere that
| Resident Evil 4 on Wii was easier than the GameCube original
| because the aiming was more precise than with a stick.
| itishappy wrote:
| They can both be true! It worked great probably 97% of the
| time, but the 3% where it flicked 20px to the left for a
| frame or lost tracking entirely add up over the course of a
| boss fight. Missing when using a joysticks feels like a
| skill issue. Missing when using the WiiMote could be
| frustrating.
| blt wrote:
| "relegated" seems like the wrong word - the best ones IMO were
| the later arcade versions like Gunblade NY (pivot mounted
| machine gun style) or the Time Crisis series (big foot pedal to
| take cover) with special hardware that would be too expensive
| for home sales.
| kodt wrote:
| There were home console versions of most of the Time Crisis
| games on PlayStation consoles. I think the 3rd and 4th games
| were on PS3 along with light guns. There were probably about
| 10-15 games on each console (PS1/PS2/PS3) which supported
| light guns. Although I don't think the home console versions
| had foot pedals, instead using a button or gun movement to
| achieve the same thing.
| unwind wrote:
| Some dedicated players with soldering irons may have hooked
| up a simple pedal switch across the gun's "cover" switch.
| Omg how I loved Time Crisis and arcades in general. Sigh.
| nottorp wrote:
| I played a Time Crisis on the ps3 using a gun handle
| attachment for the ps move [1].
|
| Tbh I don't remember if it had a cover option or not.
|
| [1] https://www.amazon.ca/PlayStation-Move-Shooting-
| Attachment-S...
| desas wrote:
| You could buy third party guns that had pedals though. I
| had one that also came with a cool realistic moving thing
| at the top that made cool shooting sounds when you pulled
| the trigger....and gave you a massive headache after a
| while.
| wvenable wrote:
| This is a common game type for VR headsets now.
| unleaded wrote:
| LCD televisions became popular which don't work with old light
| guns. We might have the sinden gun now but it kind of came too
| late, i don't think you can play much on it except for
| old/emulated games. although there was the Wii so i think
| people getting bored of light gun games could be a factor, they
| are all quite similar after all.
| lupire wrote:
| Which people are voted of light guns? Young people never had
| a chance to try them.
| speps wrote:
| It still exists nowadays, works alright actually, very analog
| with interchangeable shapes, 2 guns, etc.
|
| https://www.smythstoys.com/uk/en-gb/toys/games-puzzles-and-b...
| fragmede wrote:
| a bunch more pictures of the bulb would help.
| IAmLiterallyAB wrote:
| If you could reverse engineer the expected signal you could
| probably make your own gun
| bowsamic wrote:
| > In this case Nintendo was doing what Seg-already-did
|
| Delicious reference
| jzemeocala wrote:
| I would personally check that capacitor first before even
| touching the bulb.
|
| That thing is well past the average shelf life for an
| electrolytic.
| ffhhj wrote:
| And he means check it without touching it with bare skin or
| unprotected eyes and mouth.
| stouset wrote:
| Who is checking capacitors by touching them to their eyes!?
| jowsie wrote:
| It's not about testing it with your eyes, but about where
| the shrapnel might end up if things go very wrong.
| userbinator wrote:
| I think he means that this is a high-voltage circuit, the
| same as found in xenon strobes and camera flashes. The 350V
| rating on the cap definitely confirms that.
| cesaref wrote:
| If it is a flash type circuit, the capacitor will be
| connected directly across the xenon tube, and a separate
| trigger circuit will generate a much higher voltage to
| start the xenon conducting, and allow the capacitor to
| discharge it's energy and trigger the flash.
|
| So, it might be the 350v capacitor has failed and is not
| storing enough charge to generate a meaningful flash, or
| the trigger circuit which is not generating the initial
| >5kV to get the xenon conducting.
|
| Either way, i'd check the circuit before the xenon tube.
| nicole_express wrote:
| Probably is worth a check; I usually default to assuming that a
| good brand capacitor without any evident signs of corrosion,
| leakage or swelling is probably fine, but this is _very_ old
| and also a higher voltage circuit than what I 'm used to.
| icehawk wrote:
| Since that looks like your normal camera flash circuit with
| xenon tube (the cap values are on point for one) I'd agree its
| likely the cap, unless there is anything visibly wrong with the
| flash tube.
| pockybum522 wrote:
| That was my suggestion of what to try first when I responded to
| her original post on mastodon.
| msds wrote:
| That's exactly a disposable camera flash circuit.
| system2 wrote:
| Capacitor is #1 suspect. If not, probably flash tube is dead
| after dropped or had another type of impact. Just replace the
| flash tube with something similar to this:
|
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/165491505983
| curtisf wrote:
| > Plus, being from the 1970s, no attempt was made to make this
| look like a toy.
|
| This probably isn't just a '70s thing, but a Japan thing.
|
| Even today, toy guns in Japan don't have the tell-tale orange
| tips or plastic-y appearance; they try to look as real as they
| (cheaply) can.
|
| While walking up some stairs in a public park, I once stepped
| over a toy gun left on the edge of the steps. Being an American,
| the sight of a pistol just left lying in the open a step in front
| of me gave me quite a momentary shock, before I remembered what
| country I was in.
|
| My understanding is that this is because real guns are so
| uncommon in Japan, people generally wouldn't make the assumption
| that they're not toys.
|
| Supposedly it has the added safety benefit of dissuading would-
| be-robbers from using firearms in robberies, because even
| confronted with a real firearm, the victims would assume it's a
| toy rather than the real thing, and so it wouldn't be as
| effective of a threat.
| mike_hock wrote:
| A little demonstration would take care of that.
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _the victims would assume it 's a toy rather than the real
| thing, and so it wouldn't be as effective of a threat._
|
| I dunno... I was once mugged by a guy holding a gun that I was
| probably 95% sure didn't work. It was a pistol that was rusted
| and filthy and looked like he'd found it in the ocean or
| something...
|
| Nevertheless I have him what (small) money I had.
|
| I don't think a lot of people are willing to risk their life on
| the chance a gun might be a toy, you know?
| thsksbd wrote:
| There are basically no guns in Japan.
| curtisf wrote:
| The homicide rate in Japan is extremely low, owing largely to
| the extreme small number of firearms in the country:
| approximately 0.2% of the population own firearms (compared
| to 40% ish of US households)
|
| In a country of 125 million, there are only single-digit
| numbers of gun homicides each year.
|
| (The USA has about 20k, with a population a bit more than
| double at 333 million; about 800x the rate in Japan)
|
| It wouldn't even cross anyone's mind that it is a real gun.
| jojobas wrote:
| Americans intentionally kill more people with non-gun means
| (per capita per year) than either the Japanese or say
| Europeans or Australians total.
|
| Whatever their problem is, it's not guns.
| hiccuphippo wrote:
| Yes, the guns just helps with scale.
| idunnoman1222 wrote:
| 'owing largely' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here have
| you been to the US or Japan?
| redbell wrote:
| Oh, Duck Hunt! I was a big fan of this classic in my childhood
| during the 90s, and I was always wondering how the gun does know
| if I am pointing it to the flying duck. Until recent years and,
| from nowhere, YT suggested this video to me where I finally
| deciphered this puzzle: https://youtu.be/cu83tZIAzlA
| StanislavPetrov wrote:
| Brings back memories. In the mid 1980s Duck Hunt was one of the
| games that came included in the bundle (along with Gyromite and
| ROB the robot) when you bought the NES.
| smeej wrote:
| I think I was in my 30s before I found out that with NES Duck
| Hunt, if you plugged in a controller, player 2 could control the
| duck.
| amarant wrote:
| He can WHAT? Omg I need to go buy a Nintendo! And a CRT!
| thsksbd wrote:
| Dont bother, it sucks. The duck is still trying to fly a
| certain way and you're really just tugging at him.
|
| If you want to try it out just run Duck Hunt on an emulator.
| You dont need a crt to just play with the duck
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| Parent just needed an excuse to buy a vintage tv and NES :)
| thsksbd wrote:
| Rookie mistake. My bad.
| foxandmouse wrote:
| um... well, I just found this out at 32... granted I don't have
| access to my nes to confirm this.
| ownagefool wrote:
| Can confirm. 39 now, but as a child I liked to troll my bro
| with player 2.
| moron4hire wrote:
| I'm 42. Was doing this at age 8. Cuz what else was I going
| to do during times I wasn't allowed to play but read all
| the manuals?
| vundercind wrote:
| I think it was late 20s here, but I'd had the damn thing since
| I was like 6, including Duck Hunt. Mind was blown.
|
| The highest purpose of this feature is to surreptitiously
| control the ducks while someone who doesn't know about the
| feature is playing. You'll have them cursing in no time :-)
| Dwedit wrote:
| The zapper goes into port 2, and a standard controller goes
| into port 1.
|
| The game manual says that you can control the duck with the
| control pad (which is in player 1's controller port), which
| would usually be controlled by a second player. This isn't a
| secret to anyone who bothered to read the manual.
|
| https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_NES/manu...
| JohannesH wrote:
| A bit harsh. I didn't know this. I mean, it could be that
| some people were not able to read english. I was too young to
| read english and it wasnt my native tongue. Also, my dad used
| to let us rent a NES and some games at our local video rental
| shop, so it just didn't come with a manual to read in the
| first place.
| bazil376 wrote:
| Who'd have figured a bunch of people who didn't read the docs
| would go on to become software developers
| treflop wrote:
| It's not like we need to write docs
|
| /s
| wkjagt wrote:
| I don't remember reading any of the manuals of any of the
| games I played as a kid in the 80s. I don't even remember
| seeing them. I just remember putting the game in the console
| as quickly as possible and figuring it out.
| ilinx wrote:
| I remember getting charged $3 every time I returned a
| rented game without the manual.
| brewtide wrote:
| Haha. I completely forgot that game rentals came with a
| manual. I remember them always being absolutely beat up,
| and near shredded, but usually there!
| brightlancer wrote:
| Some games weren't intuitive, or had various power-ups and
| items that weren't obvious. Most of the manuals for the
| Sega Master System and Genesis games were just a few pages,
| so it only took a minute to read them. (And then there were
| the RPGs...)
| lupire wrote:
| How does the projector version work?
|
| Why doesn't a regular light work to trigger the hit?
|
| How can a shot of light bounce off the wall and back into the
| projector sensor, but only if the shot is near the duck image? A
| wall isn't a mirror, and the gun isn't a laser.
| djur wrote:
| The patent says that the gun receives "invisible light", rather
| than transmitting it. If the patent is referring to the same
| type of system as this Duck Hunt device (it's for a similar
| clay-shooting game), the purpose of the capacitor is to
| transmit a signal to the game device to tell it a shot has been
| fired. The gun wouldn't have a flashbulb but a photodiode. When
| the trigger is squeezed, if the photodiode is receiving the
| right frequency of flashing light, the gun will transmit the
| signal as a hit. This is similar to how I understand the NES
| Zapper to work.
|
| Caveat: I don't know enough about electronics to look at the
| photos in the attached article to confirm what I'm saying, but
| I am fairly confident that I'm reading the patent correctly.
| (It refers to the gun as "light-receiving" many times.)
|
| ETA: If this is how the non-functioning Duck Hunt works, it's
| possible that it isn't the gun that's broken but the infrared
| emitter in the projector.
|
| ETA again: Found a YouTube video where someone has this device
| and points it at the camera and shoots. There's a visible light
| flash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsh-WTZFX58 So it's not
| the same as the patent. The projector itself has a sensor on
| it, as mentioned in the article, and the light emitted by the
| gun flashes in a predetermined pattern.
| riffraff wrote:
| maybe OT but what's the Saint Seiya-themed "victory shoot" box?
|
| Was it a game where you could shoot _people_?
| Luc wrote:
| It's a handheld pachinko game. A real one in a plastic case,
| not software.
| physhster wrote:
| Capacitor might be toast. You can try replacing the flash bulb
| with one from a disposable camera, perhaps?
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