[HN Gopher] Italian streets that don't exist on any map (2022)
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Italian streets that don't exist on any map (2022)
Author : fanf2
Score : 65 points
Date : 2024-06-07 13:42 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Also, of course, the Old City of Jerusalem, which I couldn't get
| out of without asking someone.
|
| (Although I'm sure an HNer will tell me now that it's actually
| easy, if you _just_ do x, y, and z. Of course, you can also ask
| someone, which is easier.)
| balderdash wrote:
| I thought these were going to be hidden streets rather than
| fictitious streets used for administrative purposes
| dejj wrote:
| Related: phantom settlement/copyright trap that became real
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agloe,_New_York
| karaterobot wrote:
| > "Local authorities know that if someone asks to be registered
| on a fictitious street, it's almost always going to be a person
| who needs social help," explains Minardi. "They're worried that
| this person will be an excessive burden on the town budget."
|
| > As soon as someone asks an Italian town to be registered on a
| via fittizia, that town is legally obliged to create one...
|
| I assumed the purpose of this workaround was to provide accurate
| population numbers to the national government, who would then
| provide funding for services based on how many people actually
| needed them.
|
| If that's true, I don't see the advantage to the city in blocking
| homeless or itinerant people from registering.
|
| If that's false--for example, if no money trickles down to the
| city level based on population--then why legally require cities
| to create these fictional streets in the first place?
|
| It may be a requirement without corresponding support. That's
| certainly a possibility. But it's confusing to me without
| clarification. It's easy to speculate, but I'd love an
| authoritative answer.
| situationista wrote:
| The services in question are provided by the local municipality
| - and they don't receive extra government funding for this. So
| unlike a regular citizen who registers on a real street, from
| whom the city typically collects taxes, a homeless citizen
| brings costs without bringing many "benefits" (from a purely
| economic perspective).
|
| As for why they mandate the creation of these fictitious
| streets, it's because Italy's administrative system is obsessed
| with linking people to an address in a way that is absolutely
| alien to many foreigners. When you change address the police
| literally come round to check you actually live there...
| pulisse wrote:
| Italy's not unique in that respect, in Europe at least. You
| can't do much in Germany without a Meldebescheingung.
| riffraff wrote:
| in Hungary you also can't do anything with a lakcimkartya (=~
| address card). The only difference with Italy is that it's a
| separate document from the ID card.
| LorenPechtel wrote:
| It actually sounds like a good idea, although I think each person
| on the fictitious street should get a separate address number.
| hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
| Exactly and a unique extended postcode based on a hash of the
| address number, for easier routing and error
| detection/correction.
| skrtskrt wrote:
| Italian bureaucracy is the 8th wonder of the modern world
| m2f2 wrote:
| True
|
| Here at least no one sues the government over free tax filing
| though...
| bonzini wrote:
| We have both the best and the worst examples of bureaucracy.
|
| We were even the first country to have "registered email", in
| 2005. It's a set of server side protocols based on SMTP and
| MIME, that provide a legally-binding confirmation that the
| email was received by the recipient's server and delivered to
| the recipient. The cool part is that there are even RFCs
| describing the protocol. Since then it's been extended and has
| become a European standard.
| mormegil wrote:
| In the Czech Republic, homeless people get the address of the
| municipal office as their official address of residence.
| jeroen wrote:
| It should work the same in The Netherlands, but when my city
| had semi-technical problems with registering me at my new
| address, they weren't exactly forthcoming with this option.
| hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
| Sounds a lot like they gave you some BS to conceal
| discrimination.
| hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
| Cool. Sometimes nonprofits like churches do the same in the US.
| Small businesses tend to use their home address (for tax
| reasons) or the address of a membership-based office space
| vendor like Regus (pre-coworking and pre-WeWork).
|
| In the US, it's possible for anyone to receive a few pieces of
| mail or packages at a post office without a permanent physical
| address using general delivery.[0] For people without means who
| receive significant mail, the local USPS postmaster can grant
| them a PO Box.[1] As of 2018, there were 1.3 million no-fee PO
| Boxes out of 21.3 million.[2] (I assume this is for very low
| income people and actual homeless people and combined with some
| tens of thousands of deceased homeless people and perhaps as
| many cheaters of means taking advantage of the system.) And to
| workaround the artificial discrimination against PO Boxes for
| all users, USPS offers Post Office Box Street Addresses
| (PBSA).[3]
|
| 0. https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery
|
| 1. https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Is-there-mail-service-for-
| the...
|
| 2. https://www.uspsoig.gov/reports/audit-reports/no-fee-post-
| of...
|
| 3. https://postalpro.usps.com/PBSA
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(page generated 2024-06-07 23:00 UTC)