[HN Gopher] Martha Gellhorn, the only woman to report on the D-D...
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       Martha Gellhorn, the only woman to report on the D-Day landings
       from the ground
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2024-06-06 13:35 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | Hemmingway and Gellhorn is a pretty good watch with an emphasis
       | on the Spanish Civil War.
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | They were certainly two very talented people.
         | 
         | They were also unable to keep their marriage working, even
         | though divorce was somewhat scandalous at that time.
         | 
         | Two strong personalities may find it hard to create a strong
         | pair.
        
         | beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
         | Caroline Moorehead has a pretty well written biography on her
         | called: "Martha Gellhorn: A Life".
         | 
         | It's a pretty even-keeled look at Gellhorn and Hemingway,
         | peeling back the layers of personality and some of the mythos
         | to reveal how they were not always nice people to be around
         | (although, Hemingway does come across as particularly boorish).
         | Gellhorn was incredibly precocious and driven and often hard-
         | headed. The sheer distance she traveled in her life and the
         | things she got up to were almost impossible for your average
         | woman in America to fathom at that time. She probably needed to
         | adopt a near insane sense of self-confidence to go through with
         | some of the things. She had incredible expectations for herself
         | and, unfortunately, the later years of her life never seemed to
         | match what she wanted out of her life and come across as quite
         | depressing. Then again, few birth-to-death biographies have
         | entertaining later years.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | Few lives have entertaining last years. It stands to reason
           | the same is true for biographies based on those lives.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _The only woman at D-Day: What Martha Gellhorn 's letters reveal
       | about her_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32671660 - Sept
       | 2022 (1 comment)
       | 
       |  _The Extraordinary Life of Martha Gellhorn_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17543650 - July 2018 (3
       | comments)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | [stub for offtopicness]
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | lol how can we make d-day about women.
        
           | polairscience wrote:
           | lol are you really trying to imply that it's not an
           | interesting thing that there was a woman on the ground doing
           | journalism?
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | No, just remarking on the state of media that tends to
             | focus on women or minorities and exclude men.
             | 
             | Journalism isn't just what is or is not covered but what
             | the focus of a story is.
        
           | Wherecombinator wrote:
           | Ok then let's not recognise her
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | Or, let's focus on the story of the real hero's of D-Day
             | instead of trying desperately to make history fit the
             | current narrative
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | Those stories have been told, and will continue to be
               | told, long after we're gone.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and
           | flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly.
           | It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
           | 
           | If you wouldn't mind reviewing
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking
           | the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be
           | grateful.
        
         | mightymouse66 wrote:
         | Thousands and Thousands of men die, but yea lets focus on the
         | first women.
         | 
         | Don't you see how people might get mad?
        
           | seizethecheese wrote:
           | In fact, that they highlight that she is the only woman does
           | draw attention to the reality that this was a mostly male
           | endeavor. I don't see any erasure here, and this is a
           | somewhat notable story.
        
           | williamdclt wrote:
           | Are you really arguing that men in ww2 aren't talked about?
           | I'm didn't bother to count how many entries there are on
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_films, but
           | at a glance it looks like it's >95% about men
        
           | some_random wrote:
           | I think this is a bit excessive especially since D-Day is
           | such a well covered topic, but I do think it's interesting to
           | point out that of the three D-Day/WWII stories that I found
           | that were published around June 4th, two of them are stories
           | about women.
           | 
           | These Astounding Relics From the Omaha Beach Battle Tell The
           | Story of D-Day 80 Years Later
           | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/national-museum-
           | america... - May 21, 2024
           | 
           | How a World War II Escape Map Found a Second Use as a Ladies
           | Garment https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/air-space-
           | museum/2024/0... - June 5, 2024
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | This is _one_ story. There are also numerous stories told
           | about the men. And we even have a term,  "The Greatest
           | Generation". Here's a particular story of them, which you
           | might not have heard yet.
           | 
           | This particular story emphasizes "woman" partly because
           | that's a key part of the story (it was unusual, against
           | societal roles of the time), and partly because telling these
           | stories now is corrective in multiple ways.
           | 
           | (And maybe also in the headline because that will get more
           | eyeballs on the story, because people want those previously
           | neglected stories, and that inspiration.)
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | I yield to no one in my admiration for the brave men who
           | stormed the beach. Most of the coverage we see is about them.
           | 
           | I'm also sick of the stories of forgotten, now resurrected
           | women who were, let's face it, minor players.
           | 
           | However, Gellhorn showed a lot of guts doing what she did. I
           | admire that, too.
        
           | Isamu wrote:
           | I'm noticing an uptick in HN trolling from newly created
           | accounts.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | It ebbs and flows. Not the hardest problem to deal with on
             | HN by a long shot.
        
               | jqr- wrote:
               | Interesting. Can you share what is?
        
               | dang wrote:
               | One of them is people's tendency not to be aware of the
               | negativity in their own comments (harshness, provocation,
               | etc.), while at the same time being super aware of it in
               | others. This skew in perception leads to the feeling:
               | 
               | "I am a valuable contributor, sharing insights and
               | questions; you are a shameless troll, spewing drivel and
               | aggression."
               | 
               | And its cousins:
               | 
               | "Me? How can you moderate _me_? This is bias and
               | censorship of the worst order. "
               | 
               | and
               | 
               | "Ok, I may have overstepped a _little_ , but the other
               | started it with their obvious abuse. Am I not supposed to
               | defend myself? You obviously must agree with them."
               | 
               | In the case of divisive topics "I" becomes "we", a.k.a.
               | "my side", but the dynamic is basically the same.
               | 
               | All this is human nature so it's kind of hard to do
               | anything about.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | " _Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents._ "
           | 
           | " _Please don 't pick the most provocative thing in an
           | article or post to complain about in the thread. Find
           | something interesting to respond to instead._"
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | bloopernova wrote:
         | What is the most useful-to-HN-method to remove the derailment
         | attempts?
         | 
         | Downvote, flag, move on?
         | 
         | I just wish there were more effective tools across the web,
         | (i.e. not just HN) to tackle the people who are trying to cause
         | division by derailing threads with argumentative comments.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Yup, and in egregious cases, email hn@ycombinator.com. The
           | latter has the downside that it depends on how online we
           | happen to be, but the upside of guaranteed message delivery.
           | If the email is short and includes a link and a brief
           | statement of what's being reported, it's often easy to do
           | something quickly, even if it takes us (er, me) longer to
           | reply.
        
         | will5421 wrote:
         | Was the reporting much different to the men?
        
         | sed3 wrote:
         | It is real shame US army did not allowed more women on D-Day.
         | There were 17 years old boys on beach, any woman is capable of
         | doing such assault!
         | 
         | Women still face horrible discrimination, when it comes to
         | combat deployment and deaths, even today!
        
           | hollerith wrote:
           | It is unclear whether you are being serious or satirical.
        
             | sed3 wrote:
             | Pretty serious.
             | 
             | There is a war going on right now, look at injury to death
             | ratios. It would be nice to have some nurses around, maybe
             | so many soldiers would not bleed to death!
             | 
             | And 20 years old woman is more physically capable than 60
             | years old male!
        
               | dang wrote:
               | Please stop.
        
               | sed3 wrote:
               | Please stop discriminating against women!
        
             | sed3 wrote:
             | Women are capable of fighting in wars!
        
         | kleiba wrote:
         | _> Gellhorn's story ran in the August 5 issue with the headline
         | "The Wounded Come Home." No mention was made of the fact that
         | she was the only female journalist on the ground at Omaha
         | Beach._
         | 
         | As it shouldn't, as her sex is hardly relevant for the story
         | she wrote.
         | 
         | Likewise, it doesn't matter for the story to mention that
         | Gellhorn was arrested by military police for traveling to
         | Normandy without permission after she returned to England. It's
         | interesting for _this_ article, but why should any information
         | surrounding the author be mentioned in her "The Wounded Come
         | Home" piece?
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | > Why should any information surrounding the author be
           | mentioned in her "The Wounded Come Home" piece?
           | 
           | Publicity? They were happy enough to use her husbands name
           | and image in a previous issue, so it's not like they're
           | ethically opposed to doing so.
        
           | sed3 wrote:
           | Her sex is quite relevant for her writings. Any man was fair
           | target for guns. She wrote from undisturbed safety of her
           | privilege.
           | 
           | Even her treatment by military police after arrest was
           | different.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | "As a female war correspondent, Martha Gellhorn was not
             | allowed to accompany the Allied invasion force .... and so,
             | the night before the invasion, she finagled a spot on a
             | hospital ship by telling military police she was there to
             | interview nurses. Once aboard, Gellhorn found a bathroom,
             | locked the door and hid until the ship was on its way to
             | France on June 6, 1944."
             | 
             |  _" I had been sent to Europe to do my job, which was not
             | to report the rear areas or the 'woman's' angle."_
             | 
             | https://www.military.com/history/how-martha-gellhorn-
             | became-...
             | 
             | Despite the so far unanimous invalidation you are
             | experiencing in this thread, I would say that Martha
             | Gellhorn would have agreed with you
        
               | dang wrote:
               | No doubt, but I dare say she'd have agreed with us about
               | low-value internet comments too.
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | What safety? Hundreds of US servicewomen were killed in
             | WWII. Bombs and artillery don't discriminate by gender.
             | 
             | https://www.uso.org/stories/3005-over-200-years-of-
             | service-t...
        
             | dang wrote:
             | We've banned this account for trolling and ignoring our
             | request to stop.
             | 
             | Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | dang wrote:
           | I think you might be on the wrong side of this guideline
           | here:
           | 
           | " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation
           | of what someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to
           | criticize. Assume good faith._" -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
           | 
           | Unless I'm missing something, the author isn't saying it
           | should have been mentioned; only that it wasn't.
        
             | kleiba wrote:
             | Ok, thank you, dang.
             | 
             | I honestly think I wasn't breaking the guidelines but I
             | think this case really is up to interpretation, and do I
             | understand where you're coming from. My interpretation of
             | the part I quoted was that the author of the article
             | included that second sentence with the intention of it
             | being interpreted as "...but it should have been
             | mentioned". But you're right, that's my reading, nowhere
             | does it say _explicitly_ that that information should have
             | been mentioned.
             | 
             | In any event, just to clarify, I wasn't trying to troll.
        
       | chewz wrote:
       | Travels With Myself and Another by Martha Gellhorn is acctually
       | one of my favourite books...
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/925368.Travels_With_Myse...
        
       | mandevil wrote:
       | Looks at small print below the title- 44 comments on something
       | that happened 80 years ago, that's weird. Clicks on that link.
       | Opens it up, sees six basic comments plus something from dang.
       | 
       | Oh. I see.
        
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