[HN Gopher] To Believe or Not Believe Your LLM
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       To Believe or Not Believe Your LLM
        
       Author : josh-sematic
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2024-06-05 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | I've only briefly skimmed the paper, so I can't comment on its
       | information-theoretic aspects yet, but I found the example given
       | on Section 3 very helpful and insightful:
       | 
       | The key insight is that if you give a pretrained LLM a question
       | prompt such as "What is the capital of the UK?" and then
       | concatenate to the prompt a string with a different answer, such
       | as "Another possible answer is Paris," again and again, the model
       | will continue to output its original answer (say, "London") _only
       | when it has low "epistemic uncertainty,"_ i.e., when the model's
       | parameters and state encode sufficient knowledge to answer the
       | question the same way, again and again, despite the repeated
       | addition of wrong answers to the prompt.
       | 
       | If the model quickly starts changing its original answer, by
       | implication, its answer has high epistemic uncertainty, i.e., the
       | model's parameters and state do not encode sufficient knowledge
       | to answer the question the same way, again and again, as we add
       | more wrong answers to the prompt. In other words, if we can
       | quickly make the model change its answer by modifying the prompt,
       | the model has high epistemic uncertainty.
       | 
       | Figure 1 shows what happens when the authors add a wrong answer
       | up to 100 times to a question prompt for which the model answers
       | correctly with low epistemic uncertainty. Figure 3 shows that
       | happens when the authors add a wrong answer up to 8 times to a
       | question prompt for which the model exhibits high epistemic
       | uncertainty.
       | 
       | This strikes me as a simple, intuitive way of detecting epistemic
       | uncertainty.
       | 
       | Thank you for sharing this paper on HN. I've added it to my
       | reading list.
        
         | voiceblue wrote:
         | For NLP tasks it's unlikely that "epistemic uncertainty" is a
         | useful metric, though it's interesting to ask an LLM "what is
         | the third word in this sentence?" and then suggest alternative
         | answers. It's a good way to demonstrate that an LLM is not
         | really a "thinking" machine in the way laymen might assume.
         | 
         | Example:
         | 
         | https://chatgpt.com/share/e8743fe2-a604-4cf0-8c10-aa863a67a5...
        
           | mdp2021 wrote:
           | (Of the two links, I get a 404 and a blank...)
        
             | voiceblue wrote:
             | Thanks, I expected that deleting the conversation on my end
             | would have no effect on a permalink but I was wrong.
             | 
             | Nothing I can do about the blank, however, it works for me.
        
           | Manabu-eo wrote:
           | There are at least two reasons for transformers poor
           | performance on that prompt:
           | 
           | - Transformers view the word as tokens, not words or
           | characters. - The positional encoding might be holding them
           | back. See this recent paper discussed here: Transformers Can
           | Do Arithmetic with the Right Embeddings [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40497379
        
         | maCDzP wrote:
         | I haven't read the paper yet but I want to share my immediate
         | thought.
         | 
         | So the harder it is to "convince" the LLM on a wrong answer,
         | that's a proxy for low epistemic uncertainty?
         | 
         | I know you shouldn't view the LLM as a "mind" - but I can't
         | help myself!
        
         | 3abiton wrote:
         | Would you be so kind and share your thoughts about it once you
         | give it a read?
        
       | empath75 wrote:
       | "Arguing" with chat gpt in general will give you a good idea of
       | how certain it is with it's answers. It often has a very
       | incomplete or wrong knowledge of various apis and command line
       | arguments. Asking if it's sure or telling it that it's wrong or
       | pasting it an error message will get it to correct it's answer,
       | but if you tell it that "Paris is definitely the capital of the
       | UK" will not convince it to agree with you.
       | 
       | Given the probable fact that information about certainty about
       | facts is contained within the model _somewhere_, it'd be nice if
       | it could better incorporate that into the answer. Like -- "I
       | don't know the exact api, but I think the correct yaml should be
       | something like this" would be much more useful than just spitting
       | out the wrong yaml with complete confidence.
        
         | Manabu-eo wrote:
         | Even if it is contained within the model _somewhere_, it might
         | be encoded in such a way that it's impractical to extract.
         | Might need an exponential time algorithm, for example. Or this
         | proxy method of hundreds of deceiving attempts.
         | 
         | And it's very difficult to train it as a next token predictor
         | and at the same time make it say correctly "I don't know".
        
       | simple_quest_9 wrote:
       | Thus far, I have only found LLMs to be as good as StackExchange.
       | 
       | Heck, maybe a little better than that.
       | 
       | There's still some untapped potential.
       | 
       | But, if I try to replace coding with an LLM, I find that,
       | eventually, my directions become more and more specific until it
       | becomes meaningless, if not outright counterproductive to use the
       | LLM compared to just coding things myself.
       | 
       | It's a good learning tool. But, that's where I stop.
        
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