[HN Gopher] Cirkoban: Sokoban meets cellular automata written in...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cirkoban: Sokoban meets cellular automata written in Scheme
        
       Author : davexunit
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2024-06-03 16:48 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spritely.institute)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spritely.institute)
        
       | ryukafalz wrote:
       | I got thoroughly sucked into this game after the jam, then showed
       | it to a couple friends while over at their house. Nice way to
       | spend an evening :)
        
       | jsnell wrote:
       | Congrats on finishing and releasing the game. Some feedback:
       | 
       | - The game crashed during load on Chrome on Android.
       | 
       | - The undo feels really slow. Is is intentional for some kind for
       | artistic effect, or is it related to the tech stack? It feels
       | like a full second, with a really distracting screen fade effect.
       | From the article it seems that the rollback support is one of
       | your core features, but an instant undo is table stakes for this
       | kind of puzzle game. It's not something you should be showcasing
       | by making it slow and have graphical effects.
       | 
       | - Games like this should have a restart level button, not just
       | undo. That'd be the case even if the undo was faster.
       | 
       | - I think the genre convention is that invalid moves don't
       | advance time, but there's a "wait" input. Having to run at walls
       | to get the timing parity right feels just wrong.
        
         | ReleaseCandidat wrote:
         | Crashes on Chrome on MacOS too. And this has WASM GC and
         | Tailcall support.
        
           | davexunit wrote:
           | Any error message? Chrome version? I'm surprised none of the
           | players during the jam rating period ran into this.
        
             | ReleaseCandidat wrote:
             | I'm at the smartphone right now, but on the screen I've
             | just seen the x( smilie - on M1, btw. I'll check the dev
             | console and version tomorrow (it's 23:00). But I did play
             | with WASM (GC) myself, so it could be that some
             | experimental flag that I've set triggered the error.
        
             | ryukafalz wrote:
             | I can actually reproduce this right now in Chromium on
             | arm64 Linux. Chromium 125.0.6422.76, no error messages in
             | the developer console when this happens. Still, interesting
             | that (I think?) all these reports have been from Chrome/ium
             | on arm64 platforms... I wonder if we're triggering some
             | architecture-specific browser bug?
        
         | davexunit wrote:
         | - Hmm, first I've heard of it crashing. I tested on Chrome and
         | Firefox while developing. Sorry about that! Any error message
         | that you can see?
         | 
         | - Curious, this sounds like local machine slowness. Undo is
         | basically instantaneous under the hood, and there's a quarter-
         | second screen wipe effect for fun, but you can mash "undo" as
         | much as you want and it interrupts the animation so you don't
         | have to wait. On my laptop and Android phone I feel no slow
         | down nor have I heard of this from anyone else who played the
         | game.
         | 
         | - Fair point. On a keyboard you can just hold the Z key and it
         | zips back pretty quick. Less fun on mobile since I didn't
         | implement repeat on the touch controls.
         | 
         | - That may be a convention but it was a deliberate choice not
         | to implement it. I was inspired by Void Stranger which does not
         | have an idle. At least in the levels I designed, I tuned the
         | timing so if you do the optimal solution there's no time spent
         | walking into walls.
         | 
         | Thanks for the feedback!
        
           | jsnell wrote:
           | No message, just a gray background with a pixelated frowny
           | face. Not sure if it's coming from your game or from itch.io.
           | Chrome 125.0.6422.147. (I don't have the phone set up for
           | developer tools, so can't tell if there's something in the
           | developer console. Sorry.)
           | 
           | Holding Z down to roll back everything is near instant, so I
           | think it's purely a presentation thing then. Both the screen
           | wipe and the sound effect are very obtrusive. I spot-checked
           | a random puzzle game (Monster's Expedition) with higher than
           | average production values for the genre, and the undo is
           | instant with no transitions or animations, and a sound effect
           | so subtle it took me a while to realize it was even there.
        
             | paroneayea wrote:
             | Well I'm "glad" it's a presentational issue rather than a
             | performance issue then. Baba is You takes a similar
             | approach in that holding undo takes a while, so we're not
             | completely alone. :)
             | 
             | In our case the choice to have undo be very visible, well
             | it may be a bit overdone, but I think it's partly because
             | in some ways this is a showcase of Goblins' time travel
             | feature, and so we wanted to add some juice to the effect
             | to highlight it. It would definitely be better if we had a
             | "level reset" feature, which would make us comparable to
             | Baba is You: holding undo takes a bit if you did a lot of
             | things, but you can also just start over.
             | 
             | The other thing I really wished we had added was a level
             | select menu but... all this stuff was accomplished in a
             | week and two days; game jams are intense, there's always
             | things you wish you had gotten done. Now that the jam is
             | over, it might be worth adding some quality of life
             | improvements, but of course now that the jam is over we are
             | back to working on the core tech again instead of the demo.
             | :)
             | 
             | But also, hi jsnell, nice to see you again! Glad you got to
             | play the game, and hope you had fun. :)
        
               | paroneayea wrote:
               | Also, I just tried opening with Chrome 125.0.6368.2 on
               | Linux, and things ran fine... I wonder if this is a
               | Chrome on Mac OS issue specifically. Would love to know
               | what caused that, let us know if there's anything in the
               | developer console. You can file issues here:
               | https://gitlab.com/spritely/cirkoban
        
       | mcguire wrote:
       | I recently decided to try to actually learn to use Scheme,
       | really, in at least a practical sense. I had previously never
       | gotten too far into it.
       | 
       | I ran into the System Crafter's Spring Lisp Game Jam livestream
       | (https://www.youtube.com/live/n-4kZhvkK4M?si=YPCSElylTLeSDcCN)
       | and I'm rather impressed with Hoot, the Scheme -> WASM compiler.
       | Still an early release, but it seemed stable and reasonably
       | featuriferous.
       | 
       | On a different note, I also ran across WASM compiles of z3 and
       | minizinc recently. (File under "It's Not How Well The Elephant
       | Dances, But That It Dances At All," I guess.)
        
         | sitkack wrote:
         | Don't leave us hanging, how well does wasm z3 and minizinc
         | work? How many times slower are they?
        
       | constantlm wrote:
       | Supaplex vibes also
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-06-03 23:00 UTC)