[HN Gopher] Ogma: Interpretable Symbolic General Problem-Solving...
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Ogma: Interpretable Symbolic General Problem-Solving Model
Author : alex-a-levy
Score : 61 points
Date : 2024-06-03 15:38 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ogma.framer.website)
(TXT) w3m dump (ogma.framer.website)
| killthebuddha wrote:
| On the one hand this is interesting to me because it's closely
| aligned with my own ideas about what will be the general form of
| the first AGI systems.
|
| On the other hand, just like with my own ideas, there's very
| little concrete evidence that they're correct. It looks like the
| author has been very careful about wording and avoids saying
| directly "there exists an implementation of these ideas that
| seems to be working well enough to expect it to scale".
| mdaniel wrote:
| Through the magic of "coming soon!" all things are possible
| Animats wrote:
| Indeed.
|
| * Paper - coming soon.
|
| * Github repository - coming soon.
|
| * Details about how it works - coming soon.
|
| * Hype - here now.
|
| This is so retro. I went through Stanford CS in the 1980s,
| just as the "expert system" boom was collapsing, and the "AI
| winter" was beginning. This is very close to the hype of that
| era. Many of the Stanford faculty really believed that
| artificial general intelligence via expert systems was close.
| If you could just hammer the real world into predicate
| calculus...
|
| It might be worth revisiting, though. Embedding-based AI may
| be reaching its limits. If you need to plan or subgoal or
| compute, it's not quite the right tool for the job. Some
| other representation may be needed.
|
| (Consider EMACS "org mode". It probably isn't that hard to
| get an LLM to translate a question into "org mode" form. Then
| you need a strategy module to decide which subtasks to work
| on, notice when progress is being made and when it isn't,
| work on the problem as a tree of subgoals, and combine into a
| result.)
| viking123 wrote:
| Now some supposedly very smart people are thinking if you
| shove enough data into the LLM, it will magically become
| like AGI
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| Maybe those people are not that very smart after all.
| rdedev wrote:
| Can't blame them too much since every other paper points
| to the fact that more parameters and data is the way
| forward to new SOTA results.
|
| We have probably reached the limit of scraping publicly
| available English training data from the Internet. OpenAI
| is betting on synthetic data. Let's see where that takes
| them. The sad part is companies like OpenAI only makes
| money if the answer to AGI is large models and large
| data. I don't know if they have unknowingly restricted
| their ideas on AGI based on that
| yourapostasy wrote:
| _> This is very close to the hype of that era._
|
| I'm too dense to grasp the site's mathematical propositions
| (I don't have the mathematical grounding to understand
| Borel algebra not to speak of Borel Hierarchies). So it was
| no wonder I had a lot of trouble discerning how what it
| proposes was materially different from expert systems,
| inductive logic systems, and Cyc. The associative memory
| layer seems to be picking up some lessons learned from
| Generative AI, but I'm not clear on that. It will be
| interesting to keep an eye on this project and where it
| takes us, and see if it makes more sense when someone comes
| along and dumbs it down for Blubs like me.
| veryfar wrote:
| Use cases and applications:
|
| https://ogma.framer.website/use-cases
|
| National Security & Fraud Management
|
| Social Networks Monitoring
|
| Surveillance of User's Activity on the Internet
|
| Influencing People's Social Trajectories
|
| Human Resources
| latenightcoding wrote:
| I'm sorry, but what a useless landing page. There is nothing
| here.
| baq wrote:
| > The paper will be available for download soon
|
| I appreciate the author's attempt at avoiding commodification of
| the model but at this point there's little point of discussing
| the pretty web page. Maybe resubmit the paper when it's released?
| mirekrusin wrote:
| Why do I have flashback from crypto days?
| neutrinobro wrote:
| You're right, I think the only thing missing is the
| background with animated floating graph nodes.
| kolinko wrote:
| Crypto projects had papers available from get go at least.
| lmaothough12345 wrote:
| Good elevator pitch. Raising a seed round on this?
| Reubend wrote:
| Seems like a good idea, but "the proof is in the puddling". Can
| the author make a working implementation that competes with
| Transformers in terms of quality?
| frakt0x90 wrote:
| "I am Alex Levy, an independent researcher and AGI enthusiast"
|
| Background appears to be exclusively in UI/UX design which shows
| because the website is very nice. But forgive my skepticism on
| everything else the page talks about. Might get some VC $ for the
| enthusiasm but not seeing any firepower behind the claims.
| Y_Y wrote:
| I respectfully disagree, I found the website unusable
| stevenalowe wrote:
| can haz te codez?
| kolinko wrote:
| The website is very pretty.
| dimal wrote:
| > Our goal is to replace humans in any domain where data work is
| required: data collection, preparation, analysis, and
| interpretation.
|
| Nice that they say up front what their goal is. Not to help
| humans or make humans more productive. They explicitly want to
| make humans obsolete. I hope they fail.
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(page generated 2024-06-03 23:01 UTC)