[HN Gopher] Ogma: Interpretable Symbolic General Problem-Solving...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ogma: Interpretable Symbolic General Problem-Solving Model
        
       Author : alex-a-levy
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2024-06-03 15:38 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ogma.framer.website)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ogma.framer.website)
        
       | killthebuddha wrote:
       | On the one hand this is interesting to me because it's closely
       | aligned with my own ideas about what will be the general form of
       | the first AGI systems.
       | 
       | On the other hand, just like with my own ideas, there's very
       | little concrete evidence that they're correct. It looks like the
       | author has been very careful about wording and avoids saying
       | directly "there exists an implementation of these ideas that
       | seems to be working well enough to expect it to scale".
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | Through the magic of "coming soon!" all things are possible
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Indeed.
           | 
           | * Paper - coming soon.
           | 
           | * Github repository - coming soon.
           | 
           | * Details about how it works - coming soon.
           | 
           | * Hype - here now.
           | 
           | This is so retro. I went through Stanford CS in the 1980s,
           | just as the "expert system" boom was collapsing, and the "AI
           | winter" was beginning. This is very close to the hype of that
           | era. Many of the Stanford faculty really believed that
           | artificial general intelligence via expert systems was close.
           | If you could just hammer the real world into predicate
           | calculus...
           | 
           | It might be worth revisiting, though. Embedding-based AI may
           | be reaching its limits. If you need to plan or subgoal or
           | compute, it's not quite the right tool for the job. Some
           | other representation may be needed.
           | 
           | (Consider EMACS "org mode". It probably isn't that hard to
           | get an LLM to translate a question into "org mode" form. Then
           | you need a strategy module to decide which subtasks to work
           | on, notice when progress is being made and when it isn't,
           | work on the problem as a tree of subgoals, and combine into a
           | result.)
        
             | viking123 wrote:
             | Now some supposedly very smart people are thinking if you
             | shove enough data into the LLM, it will magically become
             | like AGI
        
               | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
               | Maybe those people are not that very smart after all.
        
               | rdedev wrote:
               | Can't blame them too much since every other paper points
               | to the fact that more parameters and data is the way
               | forward to new SOTA results.
               | 
               | We have probably reached the limit of scraping publicly
               | available English training data from the Internet. OpenAI
               | is betting on synthetic data. Let's see where that takes
               | them. The sad part is companies like OpenAI only makes
               | money if the answer to AGI is large models and large
               | data. I don't know if they have unknowingly restricted
               | their ideas on AGI based on that
        
             | yourapostasy wrote:
             | _> This is very close to the hype of that era._
             | 
             | I'm too dense to grasp the site's mathematical propositions
             | (I don't have the mathematical grounding to understand
             | Borel algebra not to speak of Borel Hierarchies). So it was
             | no wonder I had a lot of trouble discerning how what it
             | proposes was materially different from expert systems,
             | inductive logic systems, and Cyc. The associative memory
             | layer seems to be picking up some lessons learned from
             | Generative AI, but I'm not clear on that. It will be
             | interesting to keep an eye on this project and where it
             | takes us, and see if it makes more sense when someone comes
             | along and dumbs it down for Blubs like me.
        
       | veryfar wrote:
       | Use cases and applications:
       | 
       | https://ogma.framer.website/use-cases
       | 
       | National Security & Fraud Management
       | 
       | Social Networks Monitoring
       | 
       | Surveillance of User's Activity on the Internet
       | 
       | Influencing People's Social Trajectories
       | 
       | Human Resources
        
       | latenightcoding wrote:
       | I'm sorry, but what a useless landing page. There is nothing
       | here.
        
       | baq wrote:
       | > The paper will be available for download soon
       | 
       | I appreciate the author's attempt at avoiding commodification of
       | the model but at this point there's little point of discussing
       | the pretty web page. Maybe resubmit the paper when it's released?
        
         | mirekrusin wrote:
         | Why do I have flashback from crypto days?
        
           | neutrinobro wrote:
           | You're right, I think the only thing missing is the
           | background with animated floating graph nodes.
        
           | kolinko wrote:
           | Crypto projects had papers available from get go at least.
        
       | lmaothough12345 wrote:
       | Good elevator pitch. Raising a seed round on this?
        
       | Reubend wrote:
       | Seems like a good idea, but "the proof is in the puddling". Can
       | the author make a working implementation that competes with
       | Transformers in terms of quality?
        
       | frakt0x90 wrote:
       | "I am Alex Levy, an independent researcher and AGI enthusiast"
       | 
       | Background appears to be exclusively in UI/UX design which shows
       | because the website is very nice. But forgive my skepticism on
       | everything else the page talks about. Might get some VC $ for the
       | enthusiasm but not seeing any firepower behind the claims.
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | I respectfully disagree, I found the website unusable
        
       | stevenalowe wrote:
       | can haz te codez?
        
       | kolinko wrote:
       | The website is very pretty.
        
       | dimal wrote:
       | > Our goal is to replace humans in any domain where data work is
       | required: data collection, preparation, analysis, and
       | interpretation.
       | 
       | Nice that they say up front what their goal is. Not to help
       | humans or make humans more productive. They explicitly want to
       | make humans obsolete. I hope they fail.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-06-03 23:01 UTC)