[HN Gopher] The impossibility of translating Franz Kafka (1999)
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The impossibility of translating Franz Kafka (1999)
Author : pseudolus
Score : 50 points
Date : 2024-06-02 12:28 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
| hprotagonist wrote:
| https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/HarpersMagazine-1998-....
| also very good.
| fsckboy wrote:
| https://archive.ph/k7046
| waldrews wrote:
| It's the centenary of Kafka's death today. Remember him by doing
| something absurd and horrifying.
| generic92034 wrote:
| You mean, a normal day in the office? ;)
| tannhaeuser wrote:
| Not the worst way to celebrate Kafka considering he himself
| was working with an insurance company, giving inspiration to
| works of deep disconnect and inherent search for meaning such
| as _Der Prozess_.
| johngossman wrote:
| Is Metamorphosis really about burnout?
|
| https://howtolivetherestofyourlife.wordpress.com/2022/12/20
| /...
| samatman wrote:
| A better memorial might be to take some time to inspect your
| workspace for occupational safety hazards. Is that desk a sit-
| stand? Are people taking care to avoid RSI injuries? Is that
| monitor really high enough to look at without craning your
| neck? Is today the day you get a split ortholinear keyboard?
|
| https://academic.oup.com/occmed/article/69/3/188/5498516
| lukan wrote:
| "Remember him by doing something absurd and horrifying."
|
| The most absurd and horrifying thing I can think of, is
| everybody to just continue like everything is normal.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Yet another opportunity to do a Moore crossover:
|
| " _None of you gigantic vermin* understand. I 'm not awaking
| from uneasy dreams transformed into you, you're awaking one
| morning from your chrysalis, transformed into_ me."
|
| * It's the type system researcher life, baby: nothing but
| effects, bugs, and rock&roll!
| barfbagginus wrote:
| I walk into the space The faces buzz nondescript words Like
| insect masks Alien to me With lives and meaning Loves and fears
| There's an incandescent buzzing Under my skin My teeth ache
| like usual Gums bleed and remind me I am in the process of
| killing myself I walk down the aisle Grab a handle of vodka It
| whispers insults in my ears In the shaking voice of my father
| After his stroke The abuse slurring From the side of his mouth
| It always came from Now with drool Go home, pour out a cup
| Hands shaking, poison to lips Relief of a kind
|
| They call me the liver failure kid Done things I wish I never
| did On the run from a crime I don't remember doing Images of
| the dead kid on the news Hit and run Any information on the
| suspect Is appreciated
|
| I hate myself I hate myself I hate myself
|
| God I wanna die
| mettamage wrote:
| I think I should create a game where Skynet has won and Skynet
| is in the midst of creating its own Skynet. Ultimately, the
| grander narrative will be that it is Skynet all the way down
| dang wrote:
| And funny: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18158436.
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| While it may be impossible to translate Kafka's work, looking up
| "Habsburg" definitely is.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| Ironically, if you looked it up, you'd find out that both
| Habsburg and Hapsburg are correct, alternative spellings.
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| I should have added that I really dislike the usage of "the
| alternative form" in (US-?) english texts in general.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| Having a preference is fine, but then I don't understand
| what you meant with looking up the word... You look it up,
| find out it's a valid spelling and then what?
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| You look it up and realise that the "official german"
| spelling of Habsburg is Habsburg since quite some time
| and usage of "Hapsburg" should have been corrected and
| obsoleted by now.
|
| Which is interesting is The first
| known use of Hapsburg was circa 1861
|
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Hapsburg
| bee_rider wrote:
| It isn't incorrect, it is just the US-English
| localization.
|
| Names often get switched around a bit when translated
| into other languages. If the Hapsburgs wanted to enforce
| a different spelling, I guess they should have built a
| better empire, haha.
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| > Names often get switched around a bit when translated
| into other languages.
|
| Actually, no, usually they don't get "translated" to
| english if the name isn't written in an alphabet that
| needs transcription, like Cyrillic, Chinese, ...
| anyfoo wrote:
| Are you writing Tokyo, or Toukyo, as the literal
| romanization from the Japanese word would be? Wait, why
| are you using the Latin alphabet at all, when the
| official Japanese spelling is Dong Jing ?
|
| Just because English and German share a common spelling
| system (not completely, though), doesn't mean words can't
| be different. In English it's still Cologne instead of
| Koln. In German it's still Tokyo instead of Dong Jing or
| even just Toukyo.
|
| I am German, by the way.
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| While it is true that city names (at least the bigger
| ones) have their english version, names (surnames and
| first names) are not "translated" into their english
| forms if the used alphabet is (more or less) the same.
| Now you could argue that the name of the dynasty isn't
| the same as the surname "Habsburg", so that the usual
| rule does not apply.
| anyfoo wrote:
| Do you write Iulius Caesar or Julius Caesar? Same writing
| system (or rather, it even originated there).
|
| Generally, even without the counterexample, you just
| postulated an arbitrary, somewhat contrived rule. "Cities
| can have different names, people cannot, but only as long
| as the writing system matches". You can want this, but
| good luck with getting language to adhere to it.
|
| If I'd correct Germans for all their "misuse", or at
| least idiosyncratic use, of English expressions (handy,
| public viewing, "learnings"...), it wouldn't make anybody
| happy. I put "misuse" in quotes deliberately, because
| German has just adopted these words into different
| meanings and connotations, just like Japanese did, and
| that's okay.
|
| Language prescriptionism is not realistic.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| > and usage of "Hapsburg" should have been corrected and
| obsoleted by now.
|
| Seems like a classic confusion about the difference
| between is and ought.
|
| You believe that it _should_ be obsoleted, but it _is
| not_ obsoleted. Even the link you provided has no mention
| of the term Hapsburg being obsoleted, so I still have to
| wonder what you meant by "look it up".
| Detrytus wrote:
| Well, just from the Merriam-Webster entry linked above,
| plus Wikipedia: It's been spelled out as "Habsburg" since
| late 13th century. Just because around 1861 someone
| misspelled it as "Hapsburg" does not mean we should
| perpetually repeat this error.
|
| You know how this works: human life is short, and our
| memory is even shorter, so it takes just one uneducated
| idiot to make a spelling mistake, then dozen of other
| idiots to repeat it, and after hundred years the mistake
| becomes a time-honored tradition.
| voltaireodactyl wrote:
| As the purpose of communication is to communicate,
| language ends up being descriptive rather than
| prescriptive -- as frustrating as that can be to the more
| precise among us (believe me I feel your pain).
|
| Or to put it in tech terms: language is a blockchain.
| Detrytus wrote:
| Language in general: yes, you're right, it's about
| communication, so it can be a little fuzzy. But for
| family names it's all about unambiguously identifying a
| person. "Habsburg" and "Hapsburg" might as well have been
| two unrelated families, not different spellings of the
| same name. So, the precision matters here.
| steve1977 wrote:
| In the US... in the German speaking countries (where the term
| originates from), you never see the Hapsburg spelling.
| tsimionescu wrote:
| Just like you never see the spelling "Germany" in Germany.
| It's not a German term, it's an English term referencing a
| German ruling family, similar to Charlemagne.
| anyfoo wrote:
| In Japan, you never see the "Tokyo" spelling. And that's
| not just because of romanization, the romanized word is
| "Toukyo".
|
| I'm German, by the way.
| pookha wrote:
| Bizarre. Kafka wasn't engaged in Jewish politics in the 1900's.
| And that's not something lost in translation (he wasn't a
| Zionist). And when he wrote about his religion it was like this:
| "Prague. Religions get lost like people do"
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Octavo_Notebooks).
| Article seemed like it was spiked with innuendo...And if you
| really want to understand the mystery of Kafka you really just
| need to read the thirty page letter to his abusive, surface-level
| father. That's a "dialectic fairy tale" and one of his best.
| wiesbadener wrote:
| In German high school, I've studied Franz Kafka's works, focusing
| on literary analysis, historical context, and philosophical
| themes. We had to explore his narrative techniques and
| existential themes in texts like "The Metamorphosis" and "The
| Trial." Helpful to me were "Reclam Kommentare", commentaries
| accompanying Kafka's texts.
|
| They provide insights into his language, themes and help with the
| text analysis. A general learning goal is to connect Kafka's life
| and works to broader historical and social issues.
|
| So maybe translating the respective Reclam booklets will help
| non-native speakers, too. They for sure helped me.
| leephillips wrote:
| "...historical context...philosophical themes...existential
| themes... broader historical and social issues..."
|
| This dreary approach is likely to miss the point of Kafka's
| art. I recommend Nabokov's lecture on the _Metamorphosis_ in
| his _Lectures on Literature_.
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