[HN Gopher] SPI Flash
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       SPI Flash
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 137 points
       Date   : 2024-06-02 14:21 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (trmm.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (trmm.net)
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | It is about hardware stuff. Just in case anyone as dumb as me is
       | expecting something about triangular matrix multiplication, given
       | the url. Haha.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Side question. Does anyone have a good method of attaching 4
       | wires (say for a programmer) to the middle of a board, preferably
       | without soldering any connector on the board? (Edge connectors
       | are too bulky and inconvenient).
       | 
       | I'm thinking of something that locks through a hole in the board
       | and then pushes 4 pins onto 4 pads on the board.
        
         | asguy wrote:
         | Something like a Tag Connect would work well, if you can spare
         | the footprint space: https://www.tag-
         | connect.com/product/tc2030-fp-footprint
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | I use these: 6 pin for connecting to St-Link.
        
           | _moof wrote:
           | Tag Connects are great. I use them on all my boards. Small (I
           | use the "no legs" version), no BOM item, and works
           | beautifully.
        
           | jhallenworld wrote:
           | I like Tag's new Edge-Connect- we tried them, they are
           | awesome:
           | 
           | https://www.tag-connect.com/product/ec06-ctx-20
           | 
           | These take much less board space (especially when considering
           | locking holes) and work much better than Tag-Connect with and
           | especially without the locking holes (those pin lock things
           | are available, but they suck)- I mean they are easy to insert
           | and stay in place, very nice for firmware people to use. They
           | seem ambiguous about which side of the board you can plug
           | them into, but they are actually (barely) polarized.
           | 
           | The main disadvantage is the expense of the connector and
           | expense of castellated holes on the edge of your board. If
           | you can afford the BOM cost use a surface mount 10-pin 50-mil
           | header, or if you can afford the footprint space and some
           | holes, use the SKEDD connector.
           | 
           | BTW, for SPI-flash chips: an option is to use a socket for
           | them.
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | For your own boards, there are connectors like this[1], based
         | on pogo pins.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.macrofab.com/blog/designing-pogo-pin-
         | programming...
        
         | elsjaako wrote:
         | There's the SKEDD from WE, no experience yet, but it's on my to
         | do list.
         | 
         | https://www.we-online.com/en/components/products/REDFIT_IDC_...
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | This is exactly what I was looking for!
           | 
           | (In case anyone missed it, there is a video on the page that
           | explains how it works)
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | The "middle", as in you want to tap a trace and not a pin on a
         | chip? You really can't without hacking at the board somehow,
         | there is a plastic resist layer on all the traces. They're
         | usually visible through it but without scratching a hole you
         | can't get to it. And then of course the signals you actually
         | care about are just as likely to be in middle layers you can't
         | reach without destroying something above/below it.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | No, "middle" as in not necessarily near the edge of the board
           | ;)
        
         | tommiegannert wrote:
         | I designed these a while back to 3D-print cable housings for
         | pin headers. Also made one for cheap pogo pins:
         | https://cad.onshape.com/documents/30e7754831a9aa479c6cd5ac/w...
         | 
         | For one-off things, since they (right now) require glue, and
         | it's fiddly. But I like being able to churn out any number of
         | pins quickly. Adding keys that stick out and attach to holes in
         | the PCB, like the other examples mentioned in other comments,
         | sounds nice.
         | 
         | Related to the article: There's also the possibility of using
         | DIP sockets with flexible legs (not the lathed ones). By
         | bending them in an S, you get a spring loaded contact. I made a
         | housing for it, to be used as a non-intrusive snooper on DIP
         | EEPROMs.
        
         | XMPPwocky wrote:
         | For board you didn't design, PCBite probes work, but can be
         | fiddly especially when you have several've them in a small
         | area.
        
           | myself248 wrote:
           | Seconding PCBite probes. They're weighted, the force comes
           | from gravity not from flex/spring in the arm, which confuses
           | a lot of people at first. But they work pretty well.
        
           | noman-land wrote:
           | What two words are you contracting with "several've"?
        
             | dcassett wrote:
             | Probably "several of"
        
               | XMPPwocky wrote:
               | Yeah- I started being "flexible" with contractions in
               | casual online speech years ago as a joke, but now it's
               | just sort of part of my "dialect". That and cursed
               | multiple contractions; at least I'ven't'd any problems
               | with accidentally using either of those in formal speech.
        
               | noman-land wrote:
               | That's really funny. I personally can't abide by flexible
               | contractions but the multiple contractions are definitely
               | up my alley and I deploy them whenever I can.
        
             | jwiz wrote:
             | It almost seems like an overreaction for correcting "should
             | of".
             | 
             | s/ of/'ve/
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | For some chips you can use test clips like these ones: [1].
         | You're using a tiny hook to attach wire to the chip pin
         | (assuming that it's exposed a bit.
         | 
         | Another option is to use needles like [2]. You just put them
         | wherever needed and wire makes sure that it sits there. It's
         | fragile, but for some quick checks might be OK.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.saleae.com/products/test-clips-93
         | 
         | 2: https://www.saleae.com/products/pcbite-kit-
         | with-4x-sq10-prob...
        
         | 15155 wrote:
         | Tag Connect is hard to beat
        
       | ttul wrote:
       | "I'd especially like to thank three colleagues, Thor Simon,
       | Viktor Dukhovni and Larry Rudolph for their assistance on this
       | project."
       | 
       | That's Victor Duchovni, inventor of the Postfix MTA. Two Sigma,
       | founded only back in 2001 (i.e. newer than Google), has certainly
       | done well in retaining some incredible people on the software and
       | computer security side. From what I've heard, it's a fantastic
       | place to work as an engineer. They give people lots of
       | independence to work on things they consider to be important,
       | which is really exemplified by this blog post.
       | 
       | I think many larger financial firms would just outsource their
       | Apple security, but Two Sigma has an engineering poking around
       | the hardware and making novel discoveries. That kind of thinking
       | is how you actually get ahead in securing an enterprise, IMHO.
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | It was Wietse Venema who wrote Postfix.
        
           | ttul wrote:
           | You caught me in a senior's moment. Whoops.
        
       | kelsey98765431 wrote:
       | Oh my goodness good morning and hello! Rarely do I get to see a
       | treat like this on a sunday. Thank you!
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | As someone who's only dabbled lightly with electronics, maybe I
       | was just doing it wrong, but I didn't have great luck with those
       | Pomona SOIC test clips.
       | 
       | While doing in-circuit SPI flashing of several laptops for
       | Coreboot, getting a good read or write was difficult. One of the
       | many things I'd regularly try was to reseat the clip.
       | Unfortunately, with the Pomona clips, this reseating would tend
       | to catch and push in the pins of the clip, so they started making
       | even poorer contact.
       | 
       | This pushing in was possible because there's not a single rigid
       | pin straight through from the component to the test headers. The
       | pin is 2 or 3 (I forget) parts, and a lower part can pop out of
       | the plastic channel/groove it's in. You can disassemble the clip
       | and push things back together, but it wasn't quite the same as
       | before deformed.
       | 
       | I ended up having better luck with simpler clips that have a
       | single physical pin straight through, such that the header pitch
       | is the same as the component. Then I bent the pins to the side in
       | an alternating pattern, to give enough room to attach my
       | individual wires.
        
         | baby_souffle wrote:
         | > I ended up having better luck with simpler clips that have a
         | single physical pin straight through, such that the header
         | pitch is the same as the component. Then I bent the pins to the
         | side in an alternating pattern, to give enough room to attach
         | my individual wires.
         | 
         | I have had 100% the opposite experience :D. For whatever
         | reason, the cheap clips quickly develop intermittent faults on
         | some number of wires or the pin deforms hopelessly. You can
         | tell the problem is getting worse when you have to maintain
         | more pressure to hold the clip in place or do multiple reads
         | and confirm that the sha1 hash of the dump file matches for the
         | majority of reads!
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | Maybe I just had clumsy technique. I was usually attaching
           | the clip with not much room to open it beyond the component,
           | which I guess might've contributed to pushing in the
           | component-side pins.
        
         | lemonlime0x3C33 wrote:
         | I love Pomona SOIC test clips, the other cheaper ones off of
         | amazon are garbage though. :) I find when flashing hardware you
         | might have to try a few times and if you get a good read/write
         | going don't move, don't breathe, don't do anything until it is
         | done.
        
         | schmidtleonard wrote:
         | Was it Pomona or Pomona knockoff? IME the real ones are eye-
         | wateringly expensive but they actually work, whereas the
         | knockoffs are dirt cheap and tend to require even more effort
         | than soldering (between making initial contact and
         | discovering+fixing intermittency problems).
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | It was Pomona-branded. They were either genuine, or very
           | convincing-looking counterfeits. I had a few of them, and the
           | materials and build quality seemed good, other than pin
           | migration up that my use/abuse of them seemed to cause.
        
             | dishsoap wrote:
             | If you didn't pay upwards of $20 per piece, they were
             | likely fakes. I have had the same experience as all the
             | other commenters here: Pomona clips are the only ones I've
             | found that actually work well, while all the cheap clips
             | are just about unusably bad.
        
       | pstrateman wrote:
       | You can get lots of very weird results trying to read a chip this
       | way.
       | 
       | Powering the chip will inevitable power other things around the
       | chip, things that might also be trying to read it.
        
         | _moof wrote:
         | Yeah, it's best if you can also hold down any reset lines on
         | other things on the board.
        
         | jayyhu wrote:
         | Also you could potentially damage the on-board voltage
         | converter/regulator, since most aren't designed to be back-
         | driven from their outputs.
        
         | mjg59 wrote:
         | You can frequently avoid this by running at a lower voltage -
         | SPI chips are often rated to run down to under 3V, and
         | associated components will tend not to run with that much power
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | On PC mobos it's usually not a problem as the BIOS is
         | programmed after assembly. I've seen laptop repair shops in
         | China do it all the time.
        
       | gtsnexp wrote:
       | Huge fan of Trammell Hudson. Not sure why he simply stopped
       | posting after 2021. Loss to humanity.
        
         | transpute wrote:
         | https://social.v.st/@th
        
           | karma_pharmer wrote:
           | Wow, this mastodon interface works without javascript!
           | 
           | Why don't all the others have this feature?
        
             | transpute wrote:
             | _> Why don 't all the others have this feature?_
             | 
             | They are not hosted by trmm? :)
        
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