[HN Gopher] Unlocking the Duron and Athlon using the pencil (2007)
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Unlocking the Duron and Athlon using the pencil (2007)
Author : thunderbong
Score : 116 points
Date : 2024-06-02 03:29 UTC (19 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (computer-communication.blogspot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (computer-communication.blogspot.com)
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| There were similar techniques to mod cores to work on multi-
| processor systems! Helped a number of friends with that one!
| krylon wrote:
| My first multiprocessor system was one of those! Two Duron
| CPUs, "upgraded" to think they were AthlonMPs. Worked pretty
| well, but it used a lot of power. I burned through two PSUs in
| 18 months (admittedly, both were not exactly top-shelf).
| renatovico wrote:
| I had this too but with athlon xp dual core a real like pro
| :) one time my psy burned some pins in motherboard I see the
| atx spec and found that is the power signal only well I
| replaced the psu with a proper watts and made used a clip to
| fill the gap of the burned side of the motherboard and this
| running's well for 2y after a finnaly upgraded to core 2 duo
| generation
| Twirrim wrote:
| 2007!
|
| I forgot about the pencil trick, but never had a relevant
| generation of AMD chip to do that to.
| dainiusse wrote:
| I did that with duron 600->900mhz, but it was so long ago that
| I don't remember exact date
| timschmidt wrote:
| My Duron 600 ran Windows 98 SE at 950mhz, on an Abit
| motherboard. What ever happened to Abit? Miss those mad
| geniuses.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| They had financial problems and a class action lawsuit
| against them in early 2000s. The company was sold and then
| eventually shutdown or folded into the parent.
| spockz wrote:
| Those were the times. Unlocking a lot more performance just
| by tweaking. These days everything is locked down. I
| suppose this is more efficient.
|
| The last time in felt the same awe, although not by my own
| handiwork, was when I moved to an M1 MacBook and when I
| installed Fedora on my desktop. Everything was so fast and
| silent. Really amazing.
| timschmidt wrote:
| I feel like a lot of the tweaking features popularized by
| Abit are now available on any "gamer" board from one of
| the major manufacturers, Intel and AMD now even make
| chipsets targeted at that segment, and there are a lot
| more bins for CPUs these days, most of which come "pre-
| overclocked" even dynamically so with turbo-boost and the
| like.
|
| The Athlons and Durons of this era had exposed dies, just
| a few SKUs, no built-in thermal throttling or speed
| boosting at all, and oversized high-cfm heatsinks and
| fans felt like a new thing.
| Panzer04 wrote:
| More like these days everything is already clocked hard
| by default. There's basically no point overclocking
| modern unlocked chips, they are already clocked to 90% of
| their max speed. Compare that to the above example with
| 600 vs 900 Mhz (50%! faster)
|
| Some locked chips are clocked pretty slow, but that's
| normal segmentation :(
| jtwaleson wrote:
| What made them mad geniuses? I saw their equipment from
| time to time in catalogs but was too young to realize they
| had some kind of special reputation.
| timschmidt wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABIT_BP6 is a great
| example. It was the first motherboard to allow the use of
| two unmodified Intel Celeron processors in dual Symmetric
| multiprocessing (SMP) configuration. Not only did this
| cost drastically less than purchasing two CPUs certified
| for SMP from Intel at the time, Celerons of the era were
| the first Intel chips with on-chip L2 cache which was
| clocked at the full speed of the CPU as opposed to the
| off-chip L2 cache's half-CPU clock on the Pentium II.
| Abit was also one of the first companies to include
| jumperless overclocking features in the BIOS.
|
| If you look close, you can even see the blue thermal
| sensors Abit placed in the center of the CPU sockets
| (CPUs had no built-in thermal sensor at the time) which
| greatly eased overclocking.
|
| In short, they made boards that gave you the full range
| of what was possible, not just what was on the marketing
| sheet for the CPU.
| xorl wrote:
| Same! Dad and I did this a few times, got around having to
| upgrade to get more performance when we could still get much
| more out of the current system.
| sedatk wrote:
| I had tried that with Duron 600 but couldn't overclock it. I
| don't remember what went wrong. Maybe the motherboard didn't
| support it.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| The best way to overclock the lower clocked durons was
| simply to change the fsb in the bios settings. You didn't
| really need the pencil trick as they had 100mhz fsbs in an
| era where 133 was more common.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| Sure you didn't just flip the 100->133mhz fsb setting in the
| motherboard? The low end durons didn't really need the
| multiplier changed as they had a 100mhz fsb when the athlon
| 1000 had a 133mhz fsb and used the same motherboards. You
| could just flip the bios setting and get that exact stated
| overlock without the pencil trick.
| elric wrote:
| I did the overclocking and overvolting thing (with a pencil)
| for a bit, but then I became obsessed with silent computers and
| went the other way: undervolting. Trying to keep it running at
| the lowest possible voltage without reducing the clock speed
| too much. Those were fun experiments. Could do passive air
| cooling when the overclockers were getting into water cooling.
|
| Aside from undervolting to reduce cooling needs and thus fan
| noise, suspending disks on sturby rubber bands greatly reduced
| vibration noises, same with mounting fans with plastic plugs
| instead of metal screws. Getting bigger, slower fans also
| helped a lot.
|
| PCs now tend to be pretty quiet these days, but loud fans and
| rattling still bug me from time to time.
| Daneel_ wrote:
| I split the difference. I went with an overkill watercooling
| set up with quietness in mind, just so I could have nearly-
| passive cooling at high clock speeds.
|
| I'm currently using 2x 360x360mm radiators stacked together,
| with 4x 180mm 300rpm fans. It's virtually silent yet keeps my
| CPU and GPU quite cool, even when gaming.
| Aeolos wrote:
| Word for word the same here. I remember spending hours and
| hours in the silentpcreview forums looking for the latest and
| greatest in silent fan technology.
| kristopolous wrote:
| I've probably still got one I should throw away. Probably more
| than one...
| userbinator wrote:
| The other related article which was here recently may have been
| related to this one showing up:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40533761
| coobird wrote:
| IIRC, the Athlon XP processors also had these contacts, but it
| required an additional step to fill a gap dug between the
| contacts with super glue. (Probably possible because previous
| processors used a ceramic package while the newer ones used
| organic plastic.)
| dangero wrote:
| I thought mechanical pencils used graphite not lead
| new299 wrote:
| No pencils use "lead". It's just called lead because the
| original material used looks similar to lead ore.
|
| See manufacturing section here:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil
| bdcravens wrote:
| The words we use are funny.
|
| I had a conversation with my wife yesterday explaining to her
| that "gas" (gasoline) wasn't a gas. (it can become one, but
| that's not where the name comes from)
| lukan wrote:
| And if you push the gas pedal, it does not mean more
| gasoline comes in, but more air (which then makes more
| gasoline comes in).
|
| And people fear, that soon too many of the undividable
| atoms will be divided.
| bdcravens wrote:
| I was watching a YouTube video the other day that called
| the accelerator the "gas pedal" - which makes sense,
| except it was a video about an EV.
|
| I wonder if that term will one day become disconnected
| from the original meaning, like "hang up" or the floppy
| save icon.
| lukan wrote:
| At least in german I saw EV cars described having a
| "strom pedal" (electricity/power pedal). More correct I
| guess, but also a bit odd. We will see, whether it will
| stick.
| stavros wrote:
| In Greek we call it "gkazi", which means "natural gas",
| so it's already wrong. I'm fine with that persisting in
| EVs
| Daneel_ wrote:
| Most of the other terms are global ones (hang up, save
| icon, etc), but gas pedal is pretty specific to the US as
| far as I know, so it's much less likely to hang around
| like that.
|
| Here in Australia it's the accelerator, or accelerator
| pedal.
| IndrekR wrote:
| Estonian word is "gaasipedaal", which pretty much means
| "gas pedal". Gasoline is "bensiin", no relation to that.
| The word for pedal comes from accelerator regulating gas-
| mixture valve (throttle) in carburettor. "Gas-mixture"
| here is air mixed with atomised fuel.
| parpfish wrote:
| Unless it's diesel, because there the accelerator causes
| more fuel to squirt in rather than opening the throttle
| body.
|
| But can do you call diesel gas?
| pfortuny wrote:
| We do in Spain ("voy a echar gasolina" is both used for
| diesel and gasoline)...
| parpfish wrote:
| In the US it's context dependent.
|
| If you're running low on diesel you'd say "I need to get
| some gas" and you'd get it from a gas station
|
| But if you're talking about tractors saying that
| something has a "gas engine" specifically means it is not
| diesel
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| Likewise anything new. The idea that it allows more air
| in that then allows more fuel is true for carbureted
| based engines. But they don't actually exist outside of
| lawnmowers/chainsaws anymore. Everything from the timing
| to fuel injection and air intake is computer controlled.
| parpfish wrote:
| Really? My new-ish car (2019) just has the pedal
| connected to the throttle body with a cable. I'd assume
| that other changes to fuel injection would happen because
| it sensed more air coming in
| garaetjjte wrote:
| Fuel injected engines doesn't necessarily have
| electronically controlled throttle. And even when they
| do, injection amount isn't derived directly from pedal
| position. What's important is amount of air sucked into
| the cylinder, which is calculated from manifold air
| pressure or mass air flow sensor readings.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Well, but in this case they're just homonyms, like how the
| word "bank" can refer to the edge of a river or a financial
| institution. The gas in your car is short for "gasoline";
| you wouldn't call oxygen a type of gasoline, it's a gas.
| lallysingh wrote:
| I think the original financial institutions were actually
| on the rivers to handle the business around river-
| transported cargo.
| a1369209993 wrote:
| Actually, "bank" isn't just homonyms; both senses derive
| from circa-Proto-Germanic benc/bank: a bench or other
| raised area (either a bank counter or the raised ground
| adjacent to a riverbed). (And yes, this etymology is also
| shared with "bench".)
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| Graphite is pretty conductive too.
| smcl wrote:
| Haha amazing, I did this on my Duron 700 MHz which I overclocked
| to 900 MHz, and my Athlon 1GHz (AXIA core IYKYK) to 1.4 GHz
| jtwaleson wrote:
| Wow, those codes bring back memories. I remember trying to find
| the exact right type numbers on online forums, to find the ones
| that could be overclocked the most. Never mind that I was about
| 13 and didn't have the money to buy one but I could dream ;)
| smcl wrote:
| Yeah I was only a couple of years older than you and _barely_
| had the money, hence the overclocking :D Tbh it was fun even
| to be on a forum talking about it and checking benchmarks
| etc, some guys had very cool watercooling setups that I was
| very envious of
| RamRodification wrote:
| Here's a nice relaxing video that I like, of a guy soldering the
| pins instead, which is a lot of work but more reliable:
| https://youtu.be/Lkuf9hckV08
| theginger wrote:
| > The only drawback to this is that the potential for customers
| to be ripped of by untrustworthy dealers selling overclocked CPUs
| to the public at the price of the actual CPU speed is increased
| by a large margin. Intel long ago locked the multiplier of their
| CPUs to keep such things from happening with their processors
|
| Is the author being charitable or do people really believe this
| was to protect consumers rather than constrain them?
| deaddodo wrote:
| The constraint was real, sure. But also, making lower
| binned/spec'd chips act like faster ones and then selling them
| for the same price, that was also something that happened.
|
| If someone paid $500, they should get the $500 chip, not a $220
| made to work like the $500 one. So both things can be true.
| nebulous1 wrote:
| Lying about the chip (ie saying that it's a $500 intel chip
| when it's actually an overclocked $200 chip), is clearly
| unethical. That said the realities of chip binning make this
| weird, as you could also argue that it's unethical and
| wasteful to artificially lock down some hardware's potential.
| It's not only chips that suffer from this, like when BMW
| tried to apply a monthly subscriptions for using the heated
| seats that came with your car.
| dagmx wrote:
| saying that chip binning is unethical assumes the binning
| is truly for purely artificial reasons.
|
| What if the binning is genuinely because hardware is
| failing the required QC? Wouldn't it be ethical to sell a
| unit that isn't at risk of breaking/corrupting data etc and
| reusing the same units that have already been made?
|
| Binning is a pragmatic approach to reducing waste while
| providing products at different price points.
| deaddodo wrote:
| Or you can think of it in the opposite manner, they could
| just sell all of the $500 spec'd chips as $500 chips and
| miss out on an entire market of people that could use a
| lower spec'd chip at $200.
|
| But that's besides the point. If I'm buying a $500 chip, I
| want that chip. The one that passed, qualified and is
| guaranteed at that speed by the manufacturer. I don't want
| a $200 chip that you hacked to happen to be able to run at
| that speed.
|
| If you want to buy that $200 chip and hack it to run at
| $500 speeds go for it, there's nothing wrong with that.
| justin66 wrote:
| I bought a counterfeit Athlon XP (one modded to look like a
| 3200+) and spent some time troubleshooting its problems before
| dealing with getting my money back (from my credit card company
| - the vendor has already disappeared). There are definitely
| some advantages for the consumer in making counterfeiting
| difficult.
| jnellis wrote:
| I don't remember the time frame but it was a Slot A cpu that I
| bought from some russian owned company in Irvine in the early
| 2000's that was doing exactly this practice. Since I was
| planning on overclocking it myself, and had taken steps to
| record as much about the transaction myself (because I knew
| this scam was going on), when reported to AMD, they had their
| lawyers contact me to provide an affidavit because they we're
| attempting to sue the shit out as many of these sellers as
| possible. They also replaced the cpu with the one I intended to
| purchase so at least the story ended nicely but what a pain in
| the ass it was.
| anthk wrote:
| Celerons could be overclocked too; much cheaper than a Pentium
| III back in the day.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| In Core 2 Duo days I overclocked the FSB of my E2160 Pentium CPU
| by 50%. This boosted the frequency from 1.8 to 2.7.
|
| These days I am happy I got my 14700K boost to 6200 MHz on single
| and dual core loads and to 5600Mhz P-cores and 4400 E-cores in
| multi-core loads. According to benchmarks this means about 10%
| performance gains. But it took me a week fiddling with BIOS
| settings and testing.
| lightedman wrote:
| Good times. Back then I used this trick and paired it with an
| non-laser-locked modded Geforce 6800 AGP card for some gaming. I
| was lucky that my GPU handled having the disabled cores re-
| enabled without any issues, and the subsequent performance gains
| were huge with the additional unlocked speed from the CPU. I
| stuck with that GPU and CPU combo until the 9800GTX+ dropped.
| gigatexal wrote:
| I was way into computers around this time. I remember the race to
| 1ghz. I remember the monumental change when AMD put the memory
| controller on die. Such awesome memories.
|
| I had durons, coppermines, slotted CPUs, dual Celerons hacked to
| work all sorts of fun. Heck I was around when you could take a
| 300A and set the multi to 4.5 and the fsb to 100mhz and get a
| 150% OC!
|
| My first PC was a Commodore 64, then my dad's hand me down 486.
| What a beautiful time to be a nerd. 10k 9.1GB loud and hot SCSI
| drives. Such cool stuff back then
| yokoprime wrote:
| I had a 300A@450MHz running for years. Those were great!
| rmellow wrote:
| This reminds me of the time XBox 360s were hacked by drilling the
| processor at a precise location, at a precise depth [1].
|
| At some point, a tool was made to signal if you drilled far
| enough.
|
| [1] https://m.youtube.com/live/RyW0lXnoFOA
| Liftyee wrote:
| Also see the infamous Wii tweezer attack which could dump the
| system ROM with just a pair of tweezers.
|
| Sometimes I wonder how these sorts of exploits are discovered.
| It must take some serious in-depth knowledge of the target
| system and a lot of trial and error.
| bluedino wrote:
| I remember doing this along with a co-worker, I think my Duron
| was $60 or $80? Saved me a ton of money vs a P3 and board.
|
| Might have been long enough to have found the parts on
| Pricwatch.com?
| SunlitCat wrote:
| Maybe my memory is a bit hazy, but wasn't this already possible
| with the Athlon processors since ~2001?
| BearOso wrote:
| Yeah, the sub-1GHz Athlon and Durons were 1999, so this article
| is a little late.
| IndrekR wrote:
| 1999 was first gen, Slot A based. Second generation
| (Thunderbird) Socket A based Athlons (and Durons) described
| here were released 2000.
| SunlitCat wrote:
| Hah! Was it 2000 already!
|
| Got one in 2001 and I was so proud of my AMD Athlon
| Thunderbird 1400 that I even accepted that loud noise from
| the cooler I used.
|
| Although in hindsight, the money I spend for that luxury
| would have been better invested in other stuff, improving
| my life a bit more then a loud and noisy airplane turbine.
| kinow wrote:
| I remember doing that back by the beginning of 2000s, unlocking
| one processor, and losing another identical one trying the same
| (guess I went too far ahead). I didn't work, and my father was
| not really happy to have to buy a new CPU because of some
| graphite (but he understood the curiosity!).
| moribvndvs wrote:
| Ahh, the mention of Celeron 300A gives me a good dose of
| nostalgia. Sorry for the tangent. There was a local retailer and
| warehouse that turned out to be ran by Russian mobsters (I didn't
| know, I was a naive teen), but they had everything under the sun
| and the prices were (probably literally) a steal, although retail
| packaging was curiously rare. The guy behind the counter had a
| box full of loose 300As and let me pick my pair, and I went back
| and forth between home and the warehouse a couple of times until
| I had a stable pair. Seeing two of those things hit 450 stable
| with just a flip of a BIOS setting, for only $100something a
| piece felt like I had pulled the wool over the world's eyes.
|
| That was my first SMP system, running NT4. Ended up hosting
| Starsiege: Tribes, Q3, and a bunch of other stuff (often
| simultaneously) at college. However, I dropped out after my first
| year and couldn't host at home, so the machine was largely
| unused, and I sold it. I regret that.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Yup! The BP6 and the VP6 from Abit. Good memories!
|
| Remember old boards from Epox? Or the TNT2 ultra?
|
| But yeah my favorite was getting SMP for free using celerons
| when they weren't supposed to be able to do it.
| moribvndvs wrote:
| Yes, the Abit BP6 was the one! Nestled inside an InWin Q500
| full tower case[0]. I was a pretty big Voodoo guy initially.
| I already had a Voodoo3 but I was working at CompUSA and
| befriended the Creative Labs rep. He fixed it so I got the
| TNT2U and I was impressed. I flipped back and forth on the
| two based on game optimization. When GeForce hit the ground I
| never looked back.
|
| The late 90s/early 2000s were exciting times for PCs.
|
| 0 - http://www.dansdata.com/q500.htm
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