[HN Gopher] Unlocking the Duron and Athlon using the pencil (2007)
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       Unlocking the Duron and Athlon using the pencil (2007)
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2024-06-02 03:29 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (computer-communication.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (computer-communication.blogspot.com)
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | There were similar techniques to mod cores to work on multi-
       | processor systems! Helped a number of friends with that one!
        
         | krylon wrote:
         | My first multiprocessor system was one of those! Two Duron
         | CPUs, "upgraded" to think they were AthlonMPs. Worked pretty
         | well, but it used a lot of power. I burned through two PSUs in
         | 18 months (admittedly, both were not exactly top-shelf).
        
           | renatovico wrote:
           | I had this too but with athlon xp dual core a real like pro
           | :) one time my psy burned some pins in motherboard I see the
           | atx spec and found that is the power signal only well I
           | replaced the psu with a proper watts and made used a clip to
           | fill the gap of the burned side of the motherboard and this
           | running's well for 2y after a finnaly upgraded to core 2 duo
           | generation
        
       | Twirrim wrote:
       | 2007!
       | 
       | I forgot about the pencil trick, but never had a relevant
       | generation of AMD chip to do that to.
        
         | dainiusse wrote:
         | I did that with duron 600->900mhz, but it was so long ago that
         | I don't remember exact date
        
           | timschmidt wrote:
           | My Duron 600 ran Windows 98 SE at 950mhz, on an Abit
           | motherboard. What ever happened to Abit? Miss those mad
           | geniuses.
        
             | teruakohatu wrote:
             | They had financial problems and a class action lawsuit
             | against them in early 2000s. The company was sold and then
             | eventually shutdown or folded into the parent.
        
             | spockz wrote:
             | Those were the times. Unlocking a lot more performance just
             | by tweaking. These days everything is locked down. I
             | suppose this is more efficient.
             | 
             | The last time in felt the same awe, although not by my own
             | handiwork, was when I moved to an M1 MacBook and when I
             | installed Fedora on my desktop. Everything was so fast and
             | silent. Really amazing.
        
               | timschmidt wrote:
               | I feel like a lot of the tweaking features popularized by
               | Abit are now available on any "gamer" board from one of
               | the major manufacturers, Intel and AMD now even make
               | chipsets targeted at that segment, and there are a lot
               | more bins for CPUs these days, most of which come "pre-
               | overclocked" even dynamically so with turbo-boost and the
               | like.
               | 
               | The Athlons and Durons of this era had exposed dies, just
               | a few SKUs, no built-in thermal throttling or speed
               | boosting at all, and oversized high-cfm heatsinks and
               | fans felt like a new thing.
        
               | Panzer04 wrote:
               | More like these days everything is already clocked hard
               | by default. There's basically no point overclocking
               | modern unlocked chips, they are already clocked to 90% of
               | their max speed. Compare that to the above example with
               | 600 vs 900 Mhz (50%! faster)
               | 
               | Some locked chips are clocked pretty slow, but that's
               | normal segmentation :(
        
             | jtwaleson wrote:
             | What made them mad geniuses? I saw their equipment from
             | time to time in catalogs but was too young to realize they
             | had some kind of special reputation.
        
               | timschmidt wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABIT_BP6 is a great
               | example. It was the first motherboard to allow the use of
               | two unmodified Intel Celeron processors in dual Symmetric
               | multiprocessing (SMP) configuration. Not only did this
               | cost drastically less than purchasing two CPUs certified
               | for SMP from Intel at the time, Celerons of the era were
               | the first Intel chips with on-chip L2 cache which was
               | clocked at the full speed of the CPU as opposed to the
               | off-chip L2 cache's half-CPU clock on the Pentium II.
               | Abit was also one of the first companies to include
               | jumperless overclocking features in the BIOS.
               | 
               | If you look close, you can even see the blue thermal
               | sensors Abit placed in the center of the CPU sockets
               | (CPUs had no built-in thermal sensor at the time) which
               | greatly eased overclocking.
               | 
               | In short, they made boards that gave you the full range
               | of what was possible, not just what was on the marketing
               | sheet for the CPU.
        
           | xorl wrote:
           | Same! Dad and I did this a few times, got around having to
           | upgrade to get more performance when we could still get much
           | more out of the current system.
        
           | sedatk wrote:
           | I had tried that with Duron 600 but couldn't overclock it. I
           | don't remember what went wrong. Maybe the motherboard didn't
           | support it.
        
             | AnotherGoodName wrote:
             | The best way to overclock the lower clocked durons was
             | simply to change the fsb in the bios settings. You didn't
             | really need the pencil trick as they had 100mhz fsbs in an
             | era where 133 was more common.
        
           | AnotherGoodName wrote:
           | Sure you didn't just flip the 100->133mhz fsb setting in the
           | motherboard? The low end durons didn't really need the
           | multiplier changed as they had a 100mhz fsb when the athlon
           | 1000 had a 133mhz fsb and used the same motherboards. You
           | could just flip the bios setting and get that exact stated
           | overlock without the pencil trick.
        
         | elric wrote:
         | I did the overclocking and overvolting thing (with a pencil)
         | for a bit, but then I became obsessed with silent computers and
         | went the other way: undervolting. Trying to keep it running at
         | the lowest possible voltage without reducing the clock speed
         | too much. Those were fun experiments. Could do passive air
         | cooling when the overclockers were getting into water cooling.
         | 
         | Aside from undervolting to reduce cooling needs and thus fan
         | noise, suspending disks on sturby rubber bands greatly reduced
         | vibration noises, same with mounting fans with plastic plugs
         | instead of metal screws. Getting bigger, slower fans also
         | helped a lot.
         | 
         | PCs now tend to be pretty quiet these days, but loud fans and
         | rattling still bug me from time to time.
        
           | Daneel_ wrote:
           | I split the difference. I went with an overkill watercooling
           | set up with quietness in mind, just so I could have nearly-
           | passive cooling at high clock speeds.
           | 
           | I'm currently using 2x 360x360mm radiators stacked together,
           | with 4x 180mm 300rpm fans. It's virtually silent yet keeps my
           | CPU and GPU quite cool, even when gaming.
        
           | Aeolos wrote:
           | Word for word the same here. I remember spending hours and
           | hours in the silentpcreview forums looking for the latest and
           | greatest in silent fan technology.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | I've probably still got one I should throw away. Probably more
         | than one...
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | The other related article which was here recently may have been
       | related to this one showing up:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40533761
        
       | coobird wrote:
       | IIRC, the Athlon XP processors also had these contacts, but it
       | required an additional step to fill a gap dug between the
       | contacts with super glue. (Probably possible because previous
       | processors used a ceramic package while the newer ones used
       | organic plastic.)
        
       | dangero wrote:
       | I thought mechanical pencils used graphite not lead
        
         | new299 wrote:
         | No pencils use "lead". It's just called lead because the
         | original material used looks similar to lead ore.
         | 
         | See manufacturing section here:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | The words we use are funny.
           | 
           | I had a conversation with my wife yesterday explaining to her
           | that "gas" (gasoline) wasn't a gas. (it can become one, but
           | that's not where the name comes from)
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | And if you push the gas pedal, it does not mean more
             | gasoline comes in, but more air (which then makes more
             | gasoline comes in).
             | 
             | And people fear, that soon too many of the undividable
             | atoms will be divided.
        
               | bdcravens wrote:
               | I was watching a YouTube video the other day that called
               | the accelerator the "gas pedal" - which makes sense,
               | except it was a video about an EV.
               | 
               | I wonder if that term will one day become disconnected
               | from the original meaning, like "hang up" or the floppy
               | save icon.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | At least in german I saw EV cars described having a
               | "strom pedal" (electricity/power pedal). More correct I
               | guess, but also a bit odd. We will see, whether it will
               | stick.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | In Greek we call it "gkazi", which means "natural gas",
               | so it's already wrong. I'm fine with that persisting in
               | EVs
        
               | Daneel_ wrote:
               | Most of the other terms are global ones (hang up, save
               | icon, etc), but gas pedal is pretty specific to the US as
               | far as I know, so it's much less likely to hang around
               | like that.
               | 
               | Here in Australia it's the accelerator, or accelerator
               | pedal.
        
               | IndrekR wrote:
               | Estonian word is "gaasipedaal", which pretty much means
               | "gas pedal". Gasoline is "bensiin", no relation to that.
               | The word for pedal comes from accelerator regulating gas-
               | mixture valve (throttle) in carburettor. "Gas-mixture"
               | here is air mixed with atomised fuel.
        
               | parpfish wrote:
               | Unless it's diesel, because there the accelerator causes
               | more fuel to squirt in rather than opening the throttle
               | body.
               | 
               | But can do you call diesel gas?
        
               | pfortuny wrote:
               | We do in Spain ("voy a echar gasolina" is both used for
               | diesel and gasoline)...
        
               | parpfish wrote:
               | In the US it's context dependent.
               | 
               | If you're running low on diesel you'd say "I need to get
               | some gas" and you'd get it from a gas station
               | 
               | But if you're talking about tractors saying that
               | something has a "gas engine" specifically means it is not
               | diesel
        
               | AnotherGoodName wrote:
               | Likewise anything new. The idea that it allows more air
               | in that then allows more fuel is true for carbureted
               | based engines. But they don't actually exist outside of
               | lawnmowers/chainsaws anymore. Everything from the timing
               | to fuel injection and air intake is computer controlled.
        
               | parpfish wrote:
               | Really? My new-ish car (2019) just has the pedal
               | connected to the throttle body with a cable. I'd assume
               | that other changes to fuel injection would happen because
               | it sensed more air coming in
        
               | garaetjjte wrote:
               | Fuel injected engines doesn't necessarily have
               | electronically controlled throttle. And even when they
               | do, injection amount isn't derived directly from pedal
               | position. What's important is amount of air sucked into
               | the cylinder, which is calculated from manifold air
               | pressure or mass air flow sensor readings.
        
             | Wowfunhappy wrote:
             | Well, but in this case they're just homonyms, like how the
             | word "bank" can refer to the edge of a river or a financial
             | institution. The gas in your car is short for "gasoline";
             | you wouldn't call oxygen a type of gasoline, it's a gas.
        
               | lallysingh wrote:
               | I think the original financial institutions were actually
               | on the rivers to handle the business around river-
               | transported cargo.
        
               | a1369209993 wrote:
               | Actually, "bank" isn't just homonyms; both senses derive
               | from circa-Proto-Germanic benc/bank: a bench or other
               | raised area (either a bank counter or the raised ground
               | adjacent to a riverbed). (And yes, this etymology is also
               | shared with "bench".)
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | Graphite is pretty conductive too.
        
       | smcl wrote:
       | Haha amazing, I did this on my Duron 700 MHz which I overclocked
       | to 900 MHz, and my Athlon 1GHz (AXIA core IYKYK) to 1.4 GHz
        
         | jtwaleson wrote:
         | Wow, those codes bring back memories. I remember trying to find
         | the exact right type numbers on online forums, to find the ones
         | that could be overclocked the most. Never mind that I was about
         | 13 and didn't have the money to buy one but I could dream ;)
        
           | smcl wrote:
           | Yeah I was only a couple of years older than you and _barely_
           | had the money, hence the overclocking :D Tbh it was fun even
           | to be on a forum talking about it and checking benchmarks
           | etc, some guys had very cool watercooling setups that I was
           | very envious of
        
       | RamRodification wrote:
       | Here's a nice relaxing video that I like, of a guy soldering the
       | pins instead, which is a lot of work but more reliable:
       | https://youtu.be/Lkuf9hckV08
        
       | theginger wrote:
       | > The only drawback to this is that the potential for customers
       | to be ripped of by untrustworthy dealers selling overclocked CPUs
       | to the public at the price of the actual CPU speed is increased
       | by a large margin. Intel long ago locked the multiplier of their
       | CPUs to keep such things from happening with their processors
       | 
       | Is the author being charitable or do people really believe this
       | was to protect consumers rather than constrain them?
        
         | deaddodo wrote:
         | The constraint was real, sure. But also, making lower
         | binned/spec'd chips act like faster ones and then selling them
         | for the same price, that was also something that happened.
         | 
         | If someone paid $500, they should get the $500 chip, not a $220
         | made to work like the $500 one. So both things can be true.
        
           | nebulous1 wrote:
           | Lying about the chip (ie saying that it's a $500 intel chip
           | when it's actually an overclocked $200 chip), is clearly
           | unethical. That said the realities of chip binning make this
           | weird, as you could also argue that it's unethical and
           | wasteful to artificially lock down some hardware's potential.
           | It's not only chips that suffer from this, like when BMW
           | tried to apply a monthly subscriptions for using the heated
           | seats that came with your car.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | saying that chip binning is unethical assumes the binning
             | is truly for purely artificial reasons.
             | 
             | What if the binning is genuinely because hardware is
             | failing the required QC? Wouldn't it be ethical to sell a
             | unit that isn't at risk of breaking/corrupting data etc and
             | reusing the same units that have already been made?
             | 
             | Binning is a pragmatic approach to reducing waste while
             | providing products at different price points.
        
             | deaddodo wrote:
             | Or you can think of it in the opposite manner, they could
             | just sell all of the $500 spec'd chips as $500 chips and
             | miss out on an entire market of people that could use a
             | lower spec'd chip at $200.
             | 
             | But that's besides the point. If I'm buying a $500 chip, I
             | want that chip. The one that passed, qualified and is
             | guaranteed at that speed by the manufacturer. I don't want
             | a $200 chip that you hacked to happen to be able to run at
             | that speed.
             | 
             | If you want to buy that $200 chip and hack it to run at
             | $500 speeds go for it, there's nothing wrong with that.
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | I bought a counterfeit Athlon XP (one modded to look like a
         | 3200+) and spent some time troubleshooting its problems before
         | dealing with getting my money back (from my credit card company
         | - the vendor has already disappeared). There are definitely
         | some advantages for the consumer in making counterfeiting
         | difficult.
        
         | jnellis wrote:
         | I don't remember the time frame but it was a Slot A cpu that I
         | bought from some russian owned company in Irvine in the early
         | 2000's that was doing exactly this practice. Since I was
         | planning on overclocking it myself, and had taken steps to
         | record as much about the transaction myself (because I knew
         | this scam was going on), when reported to AMD, they had their
         | lawyers contact me to provide an affidavit because they we're
         | attempting to sue the shit out as many of these sellers as
         | possible. They also replaced the cpu with the one I intended to
         | purchase so at least the story ended nicely but what a pain in
         | the ass it was.
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | Celerons could be overclocked too; much cheaper than a Pentium
       | III back in the day.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | In Core 2 Duo days I overclocked the FSB of my E2160 Pentium CPU
       | by 50%. This boosted the frequency from 1.8 to 2.7.
       | 
       | These days I am happy I got my 14700K boost to 6200 MHz on single
       | and dual core loads and to 5600Mhz P-cores and 4400 E-cores in
       | multi-core loads. According to benchmarks this means about 10%
       | performance gains. But it took me a week fiddling with BIOS
       | settings and testing.
        
       | lightedman wrote:
       | Good times. Back then I used this trick and paired it with an
       | non-laser-locked modded Geforce 6800 AGP card for some gaming. I
       | was lucky that my GPU handled having the disabled cores re-
       | enabled without any issues, and the subsequent performance gains
       | were huge with the additional unlocked speed from the CPU. I
       | stuck with that GPU and CPU combo until the 9800GTX+ dropped.
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | I was way into computers around this time. I remember the race to
       | 1ghz. I remember the monumental change when AMD put the memory
       | controller on die. Such awesome memories.
       | 
       | I had durons, coppermines, slotted CPUs, dual Celerons hacked to
       | work all sorts of fun. Heck I was around when you could take a
       | 300A and set the multi to 4.5 and the fsb to 100mhz and get a
       | 150% OC!
       | 
       | My first PC was a Commodore 64, then my dad's hand me down 486.
       | What a beautiful time to be a nerd. 10k 9.1GB loud and hot SCSI
       | drives. Such cool stuff back then
        
         | yokoprime wrote:
         | I had a 300A@450MHz running for years. Those were great!
        
       | rmellow wrote:
       | This reminds me of the time XBox 360s were hacked by drilling the
       | processor at a precise location, at a precise depth [1].
       | 
       | At some point, a tool was made to signal if you drilled far
       | enough.
       | 
       | [1] https://m.youtube.com/live/RyW0lXnoFOA
        
         | Liftyee wrote:
         | Also see the infamous Wii tweezer attack which could dump the
         | system ROM with just a pair of tweezers.
         | 
         | Sometimes I wonder how these sorts of exploits are discovered.
         | It must take some serious in-depth knowledge of the target
         | system and a lot of trial and error.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | I remember doing this along with a co-worker, I think my Duron
       | was $60 or $80? Saved me a ton of money vs a P3 and board.
       | 
       | Might have been long enough to have found the parts on
       | Pricwatch.com?
        
       | SunlitCat wrote:
       | Maybe my memory is a bit hazy, but wasn't this already possible
       | with the Athlon processors since ~2001?
        
         | BearOso wrote:
         | Yeah, the sub-1GHz Athlon and Durons were 1999, so this article
         | is a little late.
        
           | IndrekR wrote:
           | 1999 was first gen, Slot A based. Second generation
           | (Thunderbird) Socket A based Athlons (and Durons) described
           | here were released 2000.
        
             | SunlitCat wrote:
             | Hah! Was it 2000 already!
             | 
             | Got one in 2001 and I was so proud of my AMD Athlon
             | Thunderbird 1400 that I even accepted that loud noise from
             | the cooler I used.
             | 
             | Although in hindsight, the money I spend for that luxury
             | would have been better invested in other stuff, improving
             | my life a bit more then a loud and noisy airplane turbine.
        
       | kinow wrote:
       | I remember doing that back by the beginning of 2000s, unlocking
       | one processor, and losing another identical one trying the same
       | (guess I went too far ahead). I didn't work, and my father was
       | not really happy to have to buy a new CPU because of some
       | graphite (but he understood the curiosity!).
        
       | moribvndvs wrote:
       | Ahh, the mention of Celeron 300A gives me a good dose of
       | nostalgia. Sorry for the tangent. There was a local retailer and
       | warehouse that turned out to be ran by Russian mobsters (I didn't
       | know, I was a naive teen), but they had everything under the sun
       | and the prices were (probably literally) a steal, although retail
       | packaging was curiously rare. The guy behind the counter had a
       | box full of loose 300As and let me pick my pair, and I went back
       | and forth between home and the warehouse a couple of times until
       | I had a stable pair. Seeing two of those things hit 450 stable
       | with just a flip of a BIOS setting, for only $100something a
       | piece felt like I had pulled the wool over the world's eyes.
       | 
       | That was my first SMP system, running NT4. Ended up hosting
       | Starsiege: Tribes, Q3, and a bunch of other stuff (often
       | simultaneously) at college. However, I dropped out after my first
       | year and couldn't host at home, so the machine was largely
       | unused, and I sold it. I regret that.
        
         | gigatexal wrote:
         | Yup! The BP6 and the VP6 from Abit. Good memories!
         | 
         | Remember old boards from Epox? Or the TNT2 ultra?
         | 
         | But yeah my favorite was getting SMP for free using celerons
         | when they weren't supposed to be able to do it.
        
           | moribvndvs wrote:
           | Yes, the Abit BP6 was the one! Nestled inside an InWin Q500
           | full tower case[0]. I was a pretty big Voodoo guy initially.
           | I already had a Voodoo3 but I was working at CompUSA and
           | befriended the Creative Labs rep. He fixed it so I got the
           | TNT2U and I was impressed. I flipped back and forth on the
           | two based on game optimization. When GeForce hit the ground I
           | never looked back.
           | 
           | The late 90s/early 2000s were exciting times for PCs.
           | 
           | 0 - http://www.dansdata.com/q500.htm
        
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