[HN Gopher] Loyalty at work no longer pays - and it's employers ...
___________________________________________________________________
Loyalty at work no longer pays - and it's employers who are to
blame
Author : rntn
Score : 43 points
Date : 2024-06-01 21:28 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.businessinsider.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.businessinsider.com)
| allears wrote:
| This has been true for a very long time. It's not a modern
| phenomenon.
|
| There was probably a "golden age" in the middle of the last
| century when it was a good idea to be a company man. But before
| that, and after that once the MBA mentality took over, workers
| have been treated like disposable units.
|
| It only makes sense for a worker to strategize to maximize their
| own career and income, instead of placing their loyalties in a
| company that not only doesn't care about them, but actively
| propagandizes in an attempt to make its workers feel like
| "family."
| kevinventullo wrote:
| _actively propagandizes in an attempt to make its workers feel
| like "family."_
|
| In my experience, post-COVID they've given up even maintaining
| that illusion.
| ai_what wrote:
| Here's a relevant chart: https://i.imgur.com/NJUJtmJ.png
|
| Edit: apologies, it didn't export everything. Green is job stayer
| and orange is job switcher.
|
| Source: https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx
| smarm52 wrote:
| A good summary of modern work.
|
| No real recommendations or research, and so fairly limited.
| rr808 wrote:
| I'm actually on my 9th employer and its surprising the difference
| - they pay people well, very few contractors, no outsourcing,
| constructive feedback, encouragement for internal mobility. Every
| other place was the opposite.
| rr808 wrote:
| The other point specifically for devs is how interviewing is such
| a different skill to normal work. The people with the best
| careers are almost always interviewing. If you constantly using
| that muscle you get really good. The guy I know who stayed in the
| same role for 15 years and got laid off is screwed because he's a
| great developer but doesn't know any of that stuff.
| zero-sharp wrote:
| Yea, but who wants to be always interviewing? That sounds
| terrible.
|
| At some point your life is going to have different priorities.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| Always can mean every 2 or so months.
|
| To be honest, the dynamics change completely when you are not
| in-need of work. What is a matter of ensuring one's
| livelihood quickly transforms to a friendly conversation with
| potential colleagues. The stress of finding a job is replaced
| by novelty and curiosity, by opportunity for something new.
|
| "Proactive Serendipity" [1] is a great way to live by in my
| opinion. In essence, you should put yourself in the position
| to get lucky. Not interviewing or at least not being open to
| interviewing is an easy way to close doors that you may not
| know existed.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFk8SKYSDg
| ink_13 wrote:
| One hack I've seen is to be the interviewer, not the
| interviewee
| zero-sharp wrote:
| How is that a hack? I guess if you're moving between roles
| with similar/identical skill sets, great. But I've always
| had to spend time preparing. Being selective as an
| applicant doesn't mean you don't have to prepare.
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| Always interview, be overemployed as a C player at the jobs
| you get, retire early.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| We had a guy do that. He got fired from all his jobs and
| effectively blacklisted in the area.
| afavour wrote:
| Eh. I really don't think it takes _that_ much to get into the
| swing of interviews. Developers sometimes suffer with them
| because our jobs make it easy to be introverted and avoid
| personal contact. As long as you're regularly using your social
| "muscle" at work (which is always always a good career move no
| matter what) applying that same energy to an interview isn't
| such a huge lift.
| bradleyjg wrote:
| Arguably many of the people with the best careers worked at one
| company---their own.
| pokstad wrote:
| Also you learn more stuff by working at different companies.
| Every place does things differently. Good to cross pollinate.
| bdangubic wrote:
| "People with the best careers are almost always interviewing"
| might just be the craziest sentence ever written on this
| website...
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| Does talking with the voices in my head count as interviewing?
| sublinear wrote:
| > I know that what seems to most drive young people today is the
| freedom to pursue their passions. They care less about money and
| are financially driven as a means to an end, pursuing things like
| side hustles, immersive travel to unusual places, music
| festivals, costly fitness classes, and mental health investments
| like therapy and life coaches.
|
| Fuck you pay me.
| allenrb wrote:
| Seriously. A good place in the United States will give you four
| weeks of PTO. Couple that with a decent holiday schedule and
| unlimited sick days (limiting sick days is a red flag, imho)
| and the only other thing you need is a big check.
|
| Full disclosure: I'm 51 but never expected anything from my
| employers beyond a pleasant work environment, time off, medical
| insurance, and a significant regular contribution to my
| account.
| DataDive wrote:
| I read it a bit, but it seems the article is little more than a
| single person's anecdotal observations.
|
| I tuned out after reading about 40% ... there is no conclusive
| evidence presented, just one person's observations over their
| career ... then you get things like:
|
| > The older I get, the more I understand what's been broken
|
| well ... yeah, that's how it works
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| Here is the evidence:
|
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employee...
|
| Make half the money if you are a two year or more employee.
| Apreche wrote:
| Facts. The biggest career mistake I made was staying at one place
| for too long. It was comfortable and solid. I got complacent. I
| didn't think I could do better. I was wrong.
|
| I've changed jobs twice since then, and both have been big
| upgrades. If your employer isn't significantly rewarding loyalty,
| I highly recommend at least looking to see what's out there. You
| aren't forced to go, but be open to new opportunities. An upgrade
| is likely to come.
|
| If any of my employers had pensions or other such loyalty
| programs, I wouldn't have had reason to constantly seek greener
| pastures.
|
| I find it interesting that this article talks about pensions, but
| then suggests other ideas besides pensions as ways to get loyal
| employees. I agree that things like sabbaticals are a good idea.
| I would love to have that as an option. But I would love a
| pension program as strong as the ones my grandparents had even
| more. They aren't illegal or anything now that 401ks exist.
| Companies are still allowed to make them. Just almost none of
| them do.
| ghaff wrote:
| Was having this conversation recently with a benefits expert I
| know. Traditional benefit plans that were basically worthless
| unless you stayed in the same place for a _minimum_ of a decade
| are mostly worthless today. But there are apparently a lot of
| newer-style defined benefit plans that are more flexible.
| afavour wrote:
| My employer has increasing vacation over the years, start with
| 3 weeks but you're up to 5 when you've been there a decade. IMO
| that's a very undervalued proposition that makes me want to
| stick around longer than I might otherwise. There's a dollar
| value that would trump it of course but it's pretty high.
| numbasys wrote:
| In Europe though 15 days would be illegal. You'd start day
| one with 5 weeks. Minimum. Plus bank holidays.
| jarsin wrote:
| The sad reality is the more successful a company the less power
| you have as an employee.
| pacbard wrote:
| I wonder how much the loyalty of the "good old days" was due to a
| smaller local labor market for skilled jobs.
|
| Let's say that you are a doctor and you live in a town of 20,000
| people with one hospital. You are stuck being "loyal" to that
| hospital unless you move. Now let's say that you live in a
| metropolis of 2 million people and multiple hospitals. That gives
| you the option to move between jobs if they become available.
|
| My impression is that cities and towns used to be smaller in the
| past and commuter culture wasn't as popular as it is now.
|
| I'm ok looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, but context
| is also needed to understand the decisions that people made back
| then.
| justin66 wrote:
| [delayed]
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-06-01 23:02 UTC)