[HN Gopher] Heroku Postgres is now based on AWS Aurora
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       Heroku Postgres is now based on AWS Aurora
        
       Author : mebcitto
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2024-05-31 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.heroku.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.heroku.com)
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Product      Storage  Max Connection  Monthly Pricing
       | Essential-0  1 GB     20              $5       Essential-1  10 GB
       | 20              $9       Essential-2  32 GB    40
       | $20
       | 
       | The pricing looks quite competitive, although I'm not sure what
       | the prior rates were.
       | 
       | 10 years ago I spent 10x+ per month for 32GB (RAM) Heroku
       | Postgres instances, IIRC they were around $400/mo, maybe even
       | more.
        
         | fweimer wrote:
         | That's 750$/month now, I think:
         | https://elements.heroku.com/addons/heroku-postgresql#pricing
         | (Standard 4)
        
         | SahAssar wrote:
         | > 10 years ago I spent 10x+ per month for 32GB (RAM) Heroku
         | Postgres instances, IIRC they were around $400/mo, maybe even
         | more.
         | 
         | Aren't you comparing RAM vs Storage there? The pricing chart
         | here says nothing about RAM.
        
         | macNchz wrote:
         | These "Essential" tiers are bare bones instances for toys/mvps,
         | they're much different than the bigger ones. No replication,
         | 99.5% uptime target, no maintenance windows etc.
        
       | koromak wrote:
       | Oroboros eating its tail
        
       | muratsu wrote:
       | I don't know if it's still the case but a few years ago all major
       | cloud providers were easily giving away thousands of dollars in
       | cloud credits. I expect them to stop this soon since smaller
       | cloud players build on top of them and offer better dx and
       | startups prefer to work with these smaller companies despite free
       | credits from larger players.
        
         | willsmith72 wrote:
         | > startups prefer to work with these smaller companies despite
         | free credits from larger players
         | 
         | Says who? My experience is the opposite - tending towards too
         | much reliance on the main providers because of the credits
        
           | muratsu wrote:
           | Vercel is going strong - 25.5M in 2022, 100M in 2024. Netlify
           | is currently at 30M. Add Supabase, Render, Railway, ...
        
             | rgbrenner wrote:
             | AWS alone is $100B/yr now
        
       | iancarroll wrote:
       | Having previously been on several managed PostgreSQL providers
       | and now on AWS Aurora -- Aurora has been pretty great in terms of
       | reliability and performance with large row counts and upsert
       | performance.
       | 
       | However, Aurora isn't cheap and is at least ~80% of our monthly
       | AWS bill. I wonder how it is cheaper than Heroku's previous
       | offerings? Is it Aurora Serverless v2 or something like that to
       | reduce cost? Aurora billing is largely around IOPS, and Heroku's
       | pricing doesn't seem to reflect that.
        
         | encoderer wrote:
         | Aurora has a new configuration option that changes billing from
         | iops to higher storage costs. Might be what this is using.
        
           | iancarroll wrote:
           | Yeah, that's what we use as well but I don't think that
           | addresses the underlying instance cost? I'm not familiar with
           | Serverless v2 though, if that's what this is using.
        
             | paulddraper wrote:
             | The instance cost is not much different then normal heroku
             | compute
        
         | drusepth wrote:
         | Heroku Postgres has always been priced on platform convenience
         | with very high margins. It's been many years now so I don't
         | remember the exact numbers, but I moved a few databases from
         | Heroku to AWS and reduced my DB costs ~90% (magnitude ~900/mo
         | --> ~100/mo) for roughly the same specs. They probably have a
         | lot of margins to eat into before they need to adjust prices.
        
           | iancarroll wrote:
           | I am not seeing the margins in this $5/mo instance but I
           | could be wrong!
        
             | eljimmy wrote:
             | We're using the highest tier Postgres instance at my work
             | for one of our legacy Heroku apps and it costs thousands
             | over what we'd pay for the equivalent on AWS directly.
        
             | jmspring wrote:
             | I know Salesforce has a huge AWS presence. That said, is it
             | possible they are doing multitenancy? I don't know myself.
        
         | chuckadams wrote:
         | Just curious, does Aurora scale down at all in price, i.e. if I
         | have a test instance that's hardly ever used, does it ever end
         | up being cheaper than a classic RDS instance?
        
           | nilamo wrote:
           | It scales to zero, so costs nothing when it's not in use...
        
             | hfern wrote:
             | Can you share which configuration scales to $0? I am not
             | aware of that being possible. Even the serverless option
             | has a base ACU rate.
        
               | bdcravens wrote:
               | v1 of Serverless did scale to 0, but that's no longer an
               | option
        
             | debuggerpk wrote:
             | that has not been my experience.
        
             | bdcravens wrote:
             | You're thinking of Aurora Serverless, but the typical
             | Aurora customer isn't using the Serverless offering.
             | Additionally, the original version of Aurora Serverless
             | scaled to 0, but v2 doesn't.
             | 
             | https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonRDS/latest/AuroraUserGuid
             | e...
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | >> Aurora isn't cheap and is at least ~80% of our monthly AWS
         | bill.
         | 
         | Why don't you run your own Postgres?
         | 
         | It's not hard - why pay such a premium for the Amazon version?
        
           | szundi wrote:
           | Is it less true for other cloud stuff?
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | Aurora has treated us well. We make a self-hosted product that
         | requires Postgres; our sales/customer engineering folks just
         | started telling people to use Aurora, and it hasn't caused any
         | problems despite the fact that all of our tests run against
         | stock Postgres. Can't complain. Though a VM with Postgres would
         | be plenty for our needs, and cost thousands of dollars less a
         | month. But, HA is nice if you want to pay for it.
        
       | colesantiago wrote:
       | Genuine question, who even uses Heroku anymore?
       | 
       | A VPS (hetzner, etc) + managed postgres DB (supabase / AWS / etc)
       | or a local one might more more than enough these days.
        
         | risyachka wrote:
         | probably those who don't want to set uptime alerts, fine-tune
         | configs, set up backups and restores (which are essential
         | because sooner rather later someone always deletes a few
         | rows/tables) and want to focus on business
        
         | Andugal wrote:
         | For a lot of use cases, nothing beats << git push >> and tada
         | your app is deployed.
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | Very easy to do with GitHub actions or the equivalent in
           | gitlab and probably other competitors by now I imagine.
           | 
           | If you wanted to spend money on something else, circleci and
           | others help manage ci/cd as well.
        
         | davepeck wrote:
         | I do, as do several startups I advise.
         | 
         | Despite interesting competition, my feeling is that the Heroku
         | of 2024 remains... Heroku.
         | 
         | I feel this way even though -- depending on how you segment --
         | the list of "interesting" competitors is quite long at this
         | point: Render, Railway, Northflank, Fly.io, Vercel, DO App
         | Platform, etc.
        
           | fellowniusmonk wrote:
           | I revisit heroku alts every ~6months and I am shocked how not
           | ergonomic they still are, I switched to DO VPS + Ansible
           | Container & Github Actions for any project that doesn't need
           | infinite scale after Salesforce paused heroku development but
           | I'd go back to literally any heroku clone.
           | 
           | It's crazy how the ergonomic still just aren't there.
        
             | davepeck wrote:
             | Yes, completely agree; I'm equally surprised by the poor
             | DXes.
             | 
             | (And: bugs. I'm also surprised by the kinds of issues I run
             | into on some of those sites in my list -- problems that,
             | even if not show-stopping, feel like revealing indicators
             | of quality.)
        
               | MuffinFlavored wrote:
               | > Yes, completely agree; I'm equally surprised by the
               | poor DXes.
               | 
               | Any specifics/examples? I find it hard to imagine those
               | "big name" companies/platforms you just mentioned don't
               | have entire teams dedicated to hyper-optimizing
               | experience.
        
           | strix_varius wrote:
           | IME the Heroku of 2024 is Render.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | It's really easy to be SOC2 compliant for a small SaaS on
         | heroku. We need to grow in customers and Dev resources to pull
         | it off on Raw AWS. Am looking for options though because heroku
         | is increasing their prices.
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | I use render.com. Heroku is stuck in the past.
        
         | karmelapple wrote:
         | We do, although we're in the middle of moving our entire Heroku
         | Postgres spend over to Crunchy Data [1].
         | 
         | We were getting close to one of the big jumps on the standard
         | pricing of Heroku Postgres, and we would have had to basically
         | double our monthly cost to lift the max data we could store
         | from 1.5TB to 2.0TB. On Crunchy Data, that additional disk
         | space will be like 1% more rather than 100% more.
         | 
         | While investigating Crunchy, I ran some benchmarks, and I found
         | Crunchy Bridge Postgres to be running 3X faster than Heroku
         | Postgres.
         | 
         | Heroku seems to be working on some interesting new things, but
         | I feel burned by the subpar performance and lack of basically
         | any new features over many years. I don't know if the new
         | Aurora-based database will be faster than Crunchy, but the
         | benchmarks they're talking about sound like they're finally
         | about to catch them. But we also have better features on
         | Crunchy, too, such as logical replication. Logical replication
         | is still not available on Heroku.
         | 
         | The experience for deploying apps and having add-ons is still
         | pretty easy, but we'll see how that improves. HTTP2 support is
         | still in beta.
         | 
         | 1. https://www.crunchydata.com
        
           | singingfish wrote:
           | +1 - recommend crunchy. I ran a substantial oracle to
           | postgres project recently and crunchy were great.
        
           | cyberax wrote:
           | I'm working in a new startup, and I tried several "easy"
           | solutions: AWS Lightsail, Heroku, Crunchy.
           | 
           | I settled up on AWS ECS :)
           | 
           | My main issue with Heroku was that they have not changed
           | anything in _years_. No support for gRPC, no IPv6, and simple
           | VPC peering costs $1200 a month.
        
             | davepeck wrote:
             | Yeah, the lack of HTTP/2 support has been a long-standing
             | issue with Heroku.
             | 
             | They _just_ shipped HTTP /2 terminated at their router [0],
             | and have it on their roadmap [1] to support HTTP/2 all the
             | way through. But it seems like it's at minimum a few months
             | off.
             | 
             | (As for VPC peering: the moment you need that, it sorta
             | feels like Heroku is no longer the right place to be, even
             | ignoring the costs.)
             | 
             | [0] https://blog.heroku.com/heroku-http2-public-beta [1]
             | https://github.com/orgs/heroku/projects/130
        
         | cakoose wrote:
         | A few years ago I was considering Heroku for something new. But
         | then I learned that Heroku Postgres's HA offering used async
         | replication, meaning you could lose minutes of writes in the
         | event that the primary instance failed. That was a dealbreaker.
         | 
         | That was very surprising to me. Most businesses that are
         | willing to pay 2x for an HA database are probably NOT likely to
         | be ok with that kind of data loss risk.
         | 
         | (AWS and GCP's HA database offerings use synchronous
         | replication.)
        
       | drewda wrote:
       | I'm surprised to read this, given that both Heroku and Salesforce
       | more broadly have hired what felt like a good number of
       | PostgreSQL committers.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-31 23:00 UTC)