[HN Gopher] Google releases smart watch for kids
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google releases smart watch for kids
        
       Author : goeldhru
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2024-05-29 18:14 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (store.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (store.google.com)
        
       | wmf wrote:
       | Smartwatches may be an overlooked answer to the kid phone
       | conundrum. Watches have the communication and location tracking
       | that parents demand without the distraction of phones.
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | Also for adults, it's a much less intrusive technology.
        
           | polairscience wrote:
           | I'm not sure I agree with less intrusive. Having a tracker
           | attached to your body that can notify you of anything it
           | wants is very intrusive. It is, however, seemingly less
           | addictive in some capacities. No doom scrolling, etc.
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | I think it's much less addictive. And if you only allow
             | very urgent notifications, it's almost like a plain watch.
             | 
             | Whereas on a phone, the temptation to open apps to do
             | things is always there.
             | 
             | It's almost like comparing an eink device with a regular
             | tablet.
        
             | LordDragonfang wrote:
             | Considering the number of times I've heard cell phones
             | referred to as being "attached at the hip", I think that
             | ship has sailed.
             | 
             | Also, almost every smart watch allows you to block
             | notifications on top of what you phone already blocks, so
             | if you have apps that you want notifications from for when
             | your attention is on your phone, but not all the time, you
             | can only allow those through. It's not "anything it wants",
             | it's anything _you choose_.
        
         | philomath_mn wrote:
         | 100%. My kid is not getting a smartphone until he's ~16 but
         | we're looking at a restricted smart watch right now
         | 
         | (a flip phone would also be acceptable but a watch is
         | physically attached which is ideal for 7 year old).
        
           | ZiiS wrote:
           | Not getting a phone you know about!
        
             | philomath_mn wrote:
             | A minor is going to get a phone plan w/o a guardian signing
             | for it? And use it in my house without me knowing?
             | 
             | There is a lot my kid is going to do under my nose, getting
             | a smartphone doesn't seem too likely (esp. if he has
             | alternatives like a desktop).
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | This is absolutely what I worry about for my kids, down
               | the line. A boyfriend could easily pass her an inherited
               | iPhone with a prepaid SIM card so they could keep in
               | touch away from parental prying eyes. Most families
               | around here (SV) have old devices lying around, and
               | $20/mo for a cellular plan is nothing for many teenagers.
        
               | philomath_mn wrote:
               | Fair enough! Something to watch for I suppose.
        
               | LordDragonfang wrote:
               | I think you've sort of missed the forest for the trees,
               | here. If you've gotten to the point where the kid is
               | hiding a phone from you, you're already in an adversarial
               | relationship with a young adult who has lost trust in
               | your ability to be a reasonable authority figure.
        
               | Someone1234 wrote:
               | > A minor is going to get a phone plan w/o a guardian
               | signing for it?
               | 
               | In the US at least, it is trivial to get a phone plan
               | without being 18 or having an adult sign for it. There is
               | no credit check nor identity check.
               | 
               | Just walk into any Walmart and pick up any one of a dozen
               | prepaid kits. These plans require you to bring your own
               | devices, but you can get a used/unbranded smartphone for
               | under $100 and a plan with data for under $10/month.
               | 
               | It has been this way for at least 10-15 years, if
               | anything post-pay/credit line plans are quite an outdated
               | concept, and mostly used by older generations who are
               | overpaying. Plus T-Mobile specifically have had three
               | data breaches leaking all of their customer's personal
               | information (which they wouldn't even have with a prepaid
               | plan).
        
               | philomath_mn wrote:
               | The more you know, I guess :+1:
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | _you can get a used /unbranded smartphone for under $100_
               | 
               | I got one at the bodega on the corner for $20. The owner
               | wanted $35, but when I told him I'd pay cash, he took the
               | twenty.
               | 
               | It was in packaging from some carrier in Mexico, but
               | wasn't SIM locked. No problems for the last year.
        
               | TheNewsIsHere wrote:
               | The trick is whether or not he's a true believer in the
               | rules you promulgate. If he's not, he may find ways
               | around them, and you probably don't want to foster a game
               | of cat and mouse with your child lest they end up
               | resenting you.
               | 
               | Not YOU, specifically. I'm speaking in general terms, and
               | somewhat from experience.
               | 
               | When I was in high school we barely had smartphones. A
               | friend of mine had a Windows Mobile 6 device, some kids
               | had Blackberry devices. The iPhone had just come out.
               | Devices were somewhat less personal back then so my
               | experiences may not be practically replicable today, but
               | back in the day I would lend my phone to my friends at
               | the end of the school day if they had been grounded and
               | their phone taken away.
               | 
               | Again, that was _almost_ 20 years ago (dear god), but
               | there's something to be said for the unchecked
               | determination of a teenager in search of a gadget.
               | 
               | I don't necessarily disagree with your stance, nor am I
               | criticizing you. For every watchful parental eye, there's
               | always a bit of sleight of hand. It's the way of so many
               | of us here, and likely something passed on to the kids of
               | many of us here.
        
           | miketery wrote:
           | I think the issue at hand is yes you can enforce this at the
           | family level. However unless high maturity / self awareness
           | the kid will struggle if his peers all have phones.
           | 
           | This needs to be a campaign pushed at the school or even
           | county level.
        
             | playingalong wrote:
             | Yep. Their class at school has a WhatsApp or similar group
             | chat.
        
               | philomath_mn wrote:
               | We can fire up WhatApp on desktop or tablet -- the
               | constant access is the biggest issue I have with
               | smartphones.
        
             | darkhorse222 wrote:
             | Yeah there's discussion about this in scientific articles
             | I've read, where at a certain point the social circle
             | exists on these apps, and by a single individual removing
             | themselves they are forced to effectively choose isolation.
             | 
             | I experienced it myself when I deleted instagram. I
             | realized that certain friendships that had been thriving on
             | that channel didn't flow as well outside it, via texting
             | for example.
             | 
             | So I redownloaded and set a screen time limit and I'm
             | calling that good enough.
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | > _I realized that certain friendships that had been
               | thriving on that channel didn 't flow as well outside it,
               | via texting for example._
               | 
               | I think it's a strain to call that friendship.
               | Communication channels don't matter in case of
               | friendship. I may text, call, email, etc... and it's all
               | good. But it being exclusive to a specific platform is
               | more a social circle or a club as you said.
        
               | jacobr1 wrote:
               | I had this happen when I got rid of facebook years ago. I
               | just lost touch with certain groups that were going to
               | the movies or out for drinks or whatever. I just wasn't
               | aware things were happening. Occasionally I'd get "where
               | are you?" texts. No big loss, as I had other much closer
               | groups where the communication mechanism matters less and
               | varies, but I can imagine it could be isolating for some
               | without that.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | Eh, yes and no.
               | 
               | Let's say I'm in a group of 6 close friends and every
               | year we have 20 poker nights, 4 barbecues, and attend 2
               | sports events or concerts.
               | 
               | If I decide I don't like poker and I'm not going to
               | attend the poker nights - my friends will still welcome
               | me to the barbecues and sports events. We'd still be
               | friends.
               | 
               | But they're not going to cancel poker night. And if at
               | poker night Bob tells the other guys how proud he is his
               | daughter Jenny has gotten accepted to the fancy college
               | she applied to - nobody's going to summarise that in an
               | e-mail to me.
               | 
               | We'll still be friends - but I'll be spending more time
               | alone, and the social fabric won't be quite as tightly
               | knit.
        
             | philomath_mn wrote:
             | Agree, won't be easy -- he already has many peers with
             | phones. But we have a lot of rules like that (e.g. no
             | unsupervised YouTube use, wear helmets on the bike, etc)
             | and he lives an otherwise well-provisioned life -- I think
             | we'll work something out.
        
               | sillysaurusx wrote:
               | I'm amazed no one is pushing back on this. I respect your
               | decision as a parent -- it's your decision -- but not
               | letting them have a phone until 16 or privacy in their
               | YouTube sounds miserable for them. I would be, but
               | everyone is different I suppose.
               | 
               | In contrast, I was watching gore videos by the time I was
               | 13. I think I turned out ok.
               | 
               | We'll see if it's survivorship bias, but personally, I
               | plan to give our daughter Kess most of the freedom she'll
               | want. She'll figure it out. The worst situation would be
               | for her to develop feelings for someone and not trust her
               | parents with that info. I suspect restricting smartphone
               | usage is exactly how to end up in that situation.
        
               | citizenkeen wrote:
               | The sooner my kid learns someone is always watching, the
               | better.
        
         | wlesieutre wrote:
         | Not specifically made for kids, but see "family setup" for the
         | Apple Watch also
         | 
         | https://support.apple.com/en-us/109036
        
         | Almondsetat wrote:
         | I have seen a couple of videos on youtube about people only
         | using an Apple Watch with LTE, but I have found nothing long
         | term or about android smart watches. I would really like to
         | explore this possibility for myself
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | My watch changed my relationship with my phone very positively,
         | so I offered to get my kids watches as a phone alternative. Not
         | that they couldn't have phones at all, but they'd leave them at
         | home when going on, and not carry them in their pockets around
         | the house.
         | 
         | They declined because they think watches are lame and nerdy.
         | Only the most unfortunate kids get watches. They still can't
         | carry them around the house, but I didn't gain much ground
         | overall. I've gradually increased controls on and over the
         | phones in my home, but the watch offer has never been taken up.
         | 
         | I think you're right that it could be an overlooked solution,
         | but I suspect you need to sneak in before the kids are
         | accustomed to a phone.
        
         | sharadov wrote:
         | I got an Apple watch for my 11-year-old for precisely this
         | reason - he can text, call, and play some games on it.
         | 
         | Subscription to cellular is $10/month.
         | 
         | And it let me set parental controls on it. No way was I getting
         | him a phone, it's already way too distracting with the other
         | devices he has access to at home.
        
           | tonightstoast wrote:
           | Doesn't it need to be paired with a phone thought?
        
         | giantg2 wrote:
         | I was honestly coming here to say fuck those exploitive
         | assholes at Google. But I see your point. Maybe this could be a
         | good in-between.
        
       | FeistySkink wrote:
       | The design doesn't look kid-proof at all with the curved front
       | glass. And I'm not sure what they're on about when saying "first
       | of a kind".
        
       | Invictus0 wrote:
       | When I was a kid I wanted a slick James Bond style smartwatch
       | that had lasers, tools, and other badass capabilities, not this
       | baby-ified fitness tracker.
        
         | CobrastanJorji wrote:
         | As soon as you invent the In Live and Let Die watch that
         | deflects bullets with magnets or something, I'll buy one for my
         | kids as long as you leave out the buzzsaw.
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | If it had an IR emitter and camera in the right place, one
         | could play laser-[watch-]tag, although the classic cheat of
         | obstructing the sensor would still exist.
        
       | mc32 wrote:
       | I just hope this is not a repeat of the Versa 4 where no third
       | party apps were allowed[1] (unlike the prev versions which
       | allowed them). That's a head-scratcher. This is the thing that
       | gets people to spring for a Garmin.
       | 
       | [1]https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Versa-4/Can-I-install-
       | apps-o...
        
       | bradfa wrote:
       | There's no mention of software support lifetime. If this is just
       | another multi-hundred dollar electronic gadget that's going to be
       | useless in 2 years, why would I buy it for my kid?
       | 
       | I can get a refurb Apple Watch SE 2nd gen direct from Apple for
       | $209. I'm clearly not going to buy this Google watch because of
       | the price.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | If the child doesn't carry a phone you'd need a cellular Apple
         | Watch for $250 which is slightly more but probably worth it for
         | the software support.
        
         | mhaberl wrote:
         | > going to be useless in 2 years, why would I buy it for my kid
         | 
         | Don't worry about it. I will be broken or lost far before those
         | 2 years :)
        
           | mkoryak wrote:
           | And if that doesn't happen, the battery will be such crap
           | that your kid will do nothing but complain about it 24/7.
           | 
           | You will wish it was lost.
        
             | bradfa wrote:
             | If it's going to be broken, have a shot battery, or be
             | useless in 2 years it doesn't matter which of those
             | happens, I am not willing to spend >$200 initially and then
             | a monthly fee on it.
             | 
             | If I needed to track my kids' locations, I'd give them each
             | an Airtag. $20ish and free tracking. I mind much less if
             | they destroy/lose a $20 thing with a replaceable battery.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | 2 years is an eternity in the field of kids tracking devices. I
         | sure wish it's supported for longer, but also don't expect to
         | use it that much longer if there's a better device 2 years from
         | now.
         | 
         | In particular you'll be paying a monthly subscription, so
         | you'll still be paying the same price whether you stick to this
         | device for 10 years or not.
         | 
         | On the Apple Watch it's a completely different proposition, in
         | particular you absolutely need to pair to an active iPhone.
        
       | nalekberov wrote:
       | I am amazed by the way decisions are made at Google.
       | 
       | In my imaginations the story was something like that: - How to
       | keep next generations hooked into useless technology? - Oh, let's
       | make their parents buy smartwatches to their kids, this way we A.
       | will track them 24/7, sell other useless stuff too.
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | Fitbit has been making smartwatches for like a decade. They've
         | been making models specifically for kids before Google even
         | bought them. It's the Fitbit Ace line. Why is continuing that
         | product line something you're amazed by?
         | 
         | Like, the only reason you seem amazed is because you've made up
         | an outrageous story about how the product came to be. Except
         | you admit that you've just made it up and know very well it's
         | not true, so presumably that's not driving your amazement.
        
           | nalekberov wrote:
           | Didn't know about that, thanks for the addition.
        
       | janice1999 wrote:
       | Anyone else who would be uncomfortable opting your child into
       | location, behavior and health surveillance by the world's largest
       | advertising company?
        
         | zooq_ai wrote:
         | No. Because I'm not a loser with irrational paranoia and hatred
         | towards corporations undermining my own ability to live a
         | happy, productive life
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and
           | flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly.
           | It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
           | 
           | If you wouldn't mind reviewing
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking
           | the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be
           | grateful.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Apple Watch exists if that's what you want.
        
           | janice1999 wrote:
           | Does Apple have a children's version of their smartwatch? I
           | was not aware of that.
        
             | philomath_mn wrote:
             | No, but there are several settings you can enable to make
             | them more kid-friendly (including app limits and school
             | hours)
        
             | bradfa wrote:
             | As mentioned by others in this discussion, Apple does have
             | a way to limit the functionality of an Apple Watch, as
             | outlined: https://support.apple.com/en-us/109036
        
           | jrexilius wrote:
           | That isn't really much better, except that Apples ad network
           | is smaller than googles perhaps?
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | Apple is also an advertising company.
        
             | atonse wrote:
             | Apple doesn't see any of your location data when it comes
             | to Find My.
             | 
             | It's usually end-to-end encrypted.
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | Google makes almost all their income from ads. Apple makes
             | almost none.
        
               | standardUser wrote:
               | Apple purposefully leverages its closed ecosystem to
               | generate social friction amongst kids in order to drive
               | hardware sales, making them persona non grata in my book.
        
         | okso wrote:
         | Does anyone else feel uneasy about the idea of children having
         | to curb their behavior because they know they're being
         | constantly monitored by their parents?
         | 
         | This product concerns me not only due to corporate advertising
         | surveillance but also parental spying.
        
           | quaintdev wrote:
           | And then when they finally break free they don't have any
           | feedback mechanism that they had since childhood. This can go
           | both ways. They might turn out to be model citizen or your
           | worst nightmare.
           | 
           | People raised children for 1000s of years without any
           | technology. I bet we can do that too.
        
             | philomath_mn wrote:
             | Possibly -- but we're looking at a smartwatch to give our 7
             | y.o. _more_ freedom. If he has a way to call home and we
             | can check on his location, I'm much more likely to set him
             | loose in the neighborhood.
             | 
             | Something for us to think about, though.
        
             | guilhas wrote:
             | I don't disagree, but we didn't had a choice and now we
             | have. How much guilt is a parent going to have in, the
             | unlikely situation, that something unfortunate happens and
             | that it could have been prevented by this device?
        
           | exitb wrote:
           | I suspect that parents might be more permissive if they have
           | access to location and means of communication.
        
           | bitshiftfaced wrote:
           | From skimming the page, it looks like it mainly just lets you
           | know their location. Were there other more invasive features
           | than that? Parents keeping tabs on where their kids are and
           | who they're with is associated with positive outcomes like
           | reduced drug use risks.
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | Flip that around.
           | 
           | My child has _more_ freedom now, because I can let her walk
           | further from home, unsupervised, to see if a friend can play
           | - because she can immediately text me and let me know she 's
           | staying at the friend's house for the next few hours. She no
           | longer has to wait for me to be ready to walk with her.
           | 
           | She can text me if she wants to be picked up from aftercare
           | early. Or if she wants to stay later. Or if she wants to make
           | plans for afterwards with a friend.
           | 
           | I don't mean to dismiss your concerns, they're valid. But
           | this question also varies _hugely_ with age. It would feel
           | very odd tracking every step of my child 's life if they were
           | 16; it's different if they're 8.
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | Your kids won't appreciate it once they grow up and they found
         | out later that their whole childhood been recorded and being
         | used to train AI or even worse, a data breach, since they
         | didn't have the choice to opt in or out.
        
           | philomath_mn wrote:
           | I don't think many kids will be bothered that their data was
           | aggregated with thousands of other kids to set the weights in
           | some model in the cloud.
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | Is it any worse than giving your kid a smartphone?
        
       | aiauthoritydev wrote:
       | This is one good product.
        
       | philomath_mn wrote:
       | This is about the same price as the Apple Watch SE w/ LTE --
       | seems tough for Google to compete with an established, reliable
       | alternative at the same price point.
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | > Fitbit Ace LTE is designed to protect your child's privacy and
       | wellbeing. Parents can see their child's recent activity and goal
       | progress, but older data will be automatically deleted from our
       | systems. Location data is only shown to parents and is
       | automatically deleted after a short time.
       | 
       | > There are no third-party apps or ads shown to kids, and health
       | and wellness data will not be used for Google ads.
       | 
       | Sounds better than the regular smart watches.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | Interesting definition of "protecting your privacy", which
         | means: Sending location information remotely to a US-hosted
         | centralized server + a third-party (the parents) can track you
         | all the time
        
       | rmrfchik wrote:
       | In next year: Google EOL watch for kids, closes servers rendering
       | watches useless.
        
         | philomath_mn wrote:
         | Right -- why would I risk $229 on this when I know the Apple
         | Watch will be around for many more years?
        
           | rvnx wrote:
           | $229 _plus_ mandatory subscription of $120 per year.
        
             | atonse wrote:
             | Does this include the cellular plan? Then it's probably
             | fine. But if we'd still have to get an additional cellular
             | plan on top of this, then it's silly.
        
               | KMnO4 wrote:
               | The $10/mo subscription is the data plan.
        
             | canucker2016 wrote:
             | Or $60 if you pay annually instead of monthly - though who
             | knows how long that annual discount will last.
             | 
             | [edit] and there's no buying the watch WITHOUT the Fitbit
             | Ace Pass data plan, the watch setup REQUIRES a data plan.
             | 
             | from the Compatability section of Tech Specs page:
             | 
             | "Requires Wi-Fi and Fitbit Ace Pass data plan for setup."
             | 
             | [edit2]
             | 
             | though I guess you could buy just one month of the data
             | plan, just for setting up the watch.
             | 
             | But the watch's WiFi supports only 2.4GHz.
             | 
             | [edit3]
             | 
             | the annual data plan deal is only good until before Aug 31.
             | see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzDpo1t02yA&t=275s
        
               | fma wrote:
               | Pretty bold for a company known to EOL their products to
               | even offer an annual plan.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | It's not because they did it with Fitbit, and with a lot of
         | Dropcam/Nest products they abandoned that it will happen
         | here... right, _Right_ ?
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | Exactly. Anyone in the tech industry who buys this is a fool.
         | But I feel sorry for everyone who doesn't keep up with tech
         | news to know everything Google releases is dead in the water
         | and gets duped by this and the inevitable shutdown.
         | 
         | If this lasts as long as Stadia it will shut down on Thursday
         | the 5th of August 2027.
        
       | andrewla wrote:
       | We've been happily using the Verizon Gizmo watch for a while now.
       | It's a deliberately crippled smart watch. No games, no apps (it
       | has a step counter and a stopwatch, but that's about it) -- some
       | calling functionality, some messaging functionality, tons of
       | oversight (limited contacts, all contacts must be approved by a
       | guardian), and location tracking.
       | 
       | It's kind of bad at all of these, but our primary thought is to
       | have it be a limited capability device -- similar to a flip phone
       | but a wearable.
       | 
       | This looks like it's trying to enter the same market, but with a
       | bunch of really really really really stupid shit.
       | 
       | "Meet the eejie. The eejie is the center of the Fitbit Ace LTE.
       | The more your kids move, the more goals they hit and the happier
       | they make the eejie."
       | 
       | You'd have to be an "eejie"-it to buy into this cutesy bullshit.
        
         | ygjb wrote:
         | IDK, showed it to my 12 and 15 year old. It's a bit too "little
         | kid" for them, but both of them would have liked it when they
         | were younger.
         | 
         | You call it bullshit, but maybe you just aren't the target
         | market?
        
           | andrewla wrote:
           | Quite possibly I am not the target demographic -- I never
           | really got the tomagotchi thing either, so maybe I'm just a
           | soulless monster.
           | 
           | My kids have access to other electronic devices, but don't
           | yet have a smartphone. The Gizmo is a nice intermediate step.
           | They know what real games are like and they want those. As a
           | parent I don't want the phone to be a source of distractions.
           | Having these sort of half-assed games feels like the worst of
           | both worlds; disappointing games that the kids don't like,
           | and stupid distracting games that the parents don't want.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I agree that some kids would like this, but in my family we
           | wouldn't give our kids smartwatches at that age (6-8?). I
           | don't think this will hit with tweens/teens, both because of
           | the UI and because Apple Watches will be perceived as more
           | prestigious/elite (not endorsing the feeling -- just saying
           | that will likely be the impression).
        
       | balls187 wrote:
       | $230 device, plus $10/mo, and that is per kid.
       | 
       | At what age does Google think kids are responsible enough to be
       | given such a device?
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | Google's views on this could be quite interesting to hear.
         | 
         | Remember the (long ago) episode when Schmidt suggested that
         | kids change their names to avoid connection with online antics
         | in the past?
        
       | crims0n wrote:
       | $59.98 a year for unlimited connectivity is a pretty good deal.
       | My kids are getting to the age where we leave them for things
       | like soccer practice or summer camps. Not really interested in
       | giving them a phone yet... but want them to be able to keep in
       | touch. This seems like a decent compromise.
        
       | robg wrote:
       | No sleep or stress with heart rate seems like a missed
       | opportunity. The games to help kids move is interesting but if a
       | distraction in school more trouble than it's worth.
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | If I have kids, I will never trust them with an evil and
       | dangerous company like google, same goes for facebook too, the
       | business model been and still exploiting, abusing, and selling
       | users' data. An open source alternative, both software and
       | hardware would be ideal for kids, in the meantime, being a good
       | and dedicated parent is the best strategy, and keep your eyes on
       | your kids, tech isn't needed.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | It's privacy-protecting; their location will be private, only
         | you can track them all the time, the apps installed, Google and
         | their SREs, the US government if they want to (but they most
         | likely need to ask), etc.
        
           | tamimio wrote:
           | > the apps installed, Google and their SREs, the US
           | government
           | 
           | Overseas contractors, third party apps that are used by said
           | contractors, other cloud services and their contractors etc
           | etc.
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | mhhh, and the phone operator too
        
             | surfingdino wrote:
             | My heart sunk when I saw this on the cookie control panel
             | for a popular website "We and our 796 partners..." Oh, do
             | f*k off...
        
       | Achtunglskjdf wrote:
       | I think we are crossing a boundary.
       | 
       | If our world gets so broken, that parents need this, we should
       | start changing our world
        
         | pixxel wrote:
         | You're preaching to the wrong crowd. They're salivating in this
         | thread to attach a corporate surveillance tracker to their
         | kids.
        
         | bmoxb wrote:
         | Am I missing something? Is it not just a glorified fitness
         | tracker? I can certainly understand privacy concerns but I
         | don't get how a smart watch is the signifier of a 'broken'
         | world.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | It's also a phone. Parents are demanding the right to say
           | last goodbyes to their children during school shootings.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | What's the benefit of this over a cheap LTE Apple Watch? I'm not
       | an AW fanboy (Pebble/Garmin for me), but I had always anticipated
       | getting my kid an LTE AW when the time came.
       | 
       | It doesn't look like the pricing is much different, and for
       | families with iPhones it would presumably be simpler to stay in
       | the Apple ecosystem. Is there something I'm missing, or is this
       | just for Android families?
       | 
       | Regardless, I'm happy to see innovation in the space.
        
         | m3kw9 wrote:
         | It's an Android watch rebranded as kids version, add some
         | restriction features. Apple has all of that already
        
       | taeric wrote:
       | I feel somewhat in a twilight zone. I'm not a fan of this device,
       | but I also don't understand the over the top paranoia around it.
       | Why do we invent such absurdly terrifying discourse around kids?
       | 
       | If you don't want this for your kids, just don't get it. If you
       | are worried about folks knowing where your kids are and what they
       | are up to, I have bad news for you about neighborhood gossip.
        
       | makeitdouble wrote:
       | > Ace Pass required. Works with most phones running Android 11.0
       | or newer or iOS 15 or newer.
       | 
       | This is a bummer. It's still better than being android only or
       | iOS only, but this would really have benefited from allowing
       | standalone use with management from the web for instance.
        
       | Laremere wrote:
       | A noble idea that looks to be mired in bad design.
       | 
       | Once again Google ties a product to a subscription service
       | (beyond whatever lte connectivity which would be needed anyways).
       | They seem to be always chasing getting that recurring revenue by
       | adding unnecessary features. This adds little value, greatly
       | increases the maintenance cost for Google, and puts the risk on
       | the customer for whether Google will continue thinking it's worth
       | it.
       | 
       | Worst of all, "Games". As a lover of games as an artistic medium,
       | and a game designer myself, I'm just so tired of gamification
       | crap being added to everything else. Flashy graphics and numbers
       | going up are the "sugar" to games' "nutrition" of interactive
       | experience, mechanical exploration, and emotional expression.
       | Rewarding children with external rewards over building internal
       | motivation is dubious at best, and incredibly harmful at worst.
        
       | jfkw wrote:
       | I was hopeful this would be minimalist, secured contacts version
       | of general purpose OS used in more powerful smartwatches. Regular
       | phone and message apps, parent-limited contacts, communications
       | logged where the parent can review/block it.
       | 
       | We are currently sharing a Verizon Gizmo 3 among multiple
       | children. The GizmoHub app is not bad but its mandatory use is
       | frustrating. Friends need substantial parental help to start
       | communicating with the Gizmo user (account creation with
       | Verizon). Forcing all communications through a dedicated and
       | clunky app is a non-starter.
       | 
       | Battery life is the other challenge. Kids don't heed advice to
       | conserve the less than all day battery life. Later when
       | communications for pick-up are most needed, the watch is often
       | low on power.
        
       | stanski wrote:
       | The communication part is a good idea but games? Would hate to
       | watch my kid stare a smart watch to figure out what to do with
       | herself.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | The "games" appear to be gamified exercise apps.
        
           | canucker2016 wrote:
           | The Fitbit Ace LTE (age 7+) seems to be the step up to the
           | FitBit Ace 3 fitness tracker (age 6+),
           | https://store.google.com/product/fitbit_ace_3
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | > _You have control over when they can play on their Fitbit Ace
       | LTE. Set downtimes during the day, while still letting them get
       | in touch with you if they need to._
       | 
       | This sounds like a great feature. I want my kid to be able to
       | reach me in an emergency, but I want there to be zero
       | distractions during the school day. Hopefully Apple implements
       | this on Apple Watches that use Family Setup.
        
         | atonse wrote:
         | There's been "School Mode" on apple watches for years now. It's
         | a distraction-free mode.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | Cool, good to know. Seems like the discussion forums have
           | several requests for preventing the kid from exiting the
           | school mode, or only allowing exit in order to send a message
           | or call an approved contact. I'll be interested to see how
           | the different school modes evolve. It sounds like some
           | schools don't allow watches where the kid can exit school
           | mode except to make an emergency call, which makes sense. I
           | wouldn't want to be a teacher trying to catch kids slipping
           | in and out of school mode!
        
       | pie420 wrote:
       | Heroin for kids! NOTIFICATIONS NOTIFICATIONS TECH TECH START THEM
       | EARLY QUANTIFY EVERYTHING RECORD EVERYTHING CONNECT EVERYTHING
        
       | dmitrygr wrote:
       | Requires a $10/mo data plan. So that is 2x of the many $5/mo
       | plans you can get for a standalone-setup apple watch SE. Price is
       | $70 less than the SE. Ok, so that crosses over in just over a
       | year.
       | 
       | But, I know the apple watch will be supported for 7 years or so.
       | This is a google product, so I expect it to be EOLed tomorrow. No
       | thanks. Fool me 100 times, shame on you, fool me 101 times, shame
       | on me, google!
        
       | canucker2016 wrote:
       | Under Tech Specs,
       | https://store.google.com/us/product/fitbit_ace_lte_specs?hl=...:
       | 
       | "Tap to Pay (NFC)4(Coming soon)"
       | 
       | What? Why would my kid need Tap to Pay? That's just setting the
       | user/Google up for a horror story where the watch wearer goes
       | overboard on spending for some lame game with in-app payments...
       | 
       | Or are they expecting adults to use this as well?
        
         | jakemoshenko wrote:
         | Tap to pay with spend controls sounds ideal for things like
         | after school snacks/activities and transit. It could also be an
         | easy to way to manage things like allowance digitally?
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | Same reason we have debit cards with parental controls.
         | 
         | If I lived in Chicago, I'd put my Ventra card on my kid's smart
         | watch.
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | Some urban transit systems use NFC for fares. Maybe you want
         | your kid to have a bus or subway pass without having to carry a
         | wallet.
        
         | enragedcacti wrote:
         | If you read the the "4" footnote included in your copied
         | section...
         | 
         | > Requires compatible payment card and internet access. Payment
         | cards for supervised users may require a separate paid
         | membership (not included with Fitbit Ace Pass). Payment card
         | memberships or parents may restrict purchases of certain
         | products or from certain retailers. Supports Tap to Pay only.
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Ugh, I threw up a little in my mouth just from the headline.
       | 
       | This constant tracking of kids is unnecessary and dangerous.
       | Generations of kids survived without their parents needing to
       | know their location at all times.
       | 
       | And yes, I totally admit, some kids (very few actually depending
       | on the locale) _didn 't_ survive. But we've traded this false
       | sense of "safety" for kids that are so risk averse it is
       | seriously negatively affecting their development. I highly
       | recommend the writings of Jonathan Haidt - he not only has great
       | arguments but also has a lot of data to back up his conclusions.
       | 
       | Kids don't need more tech, they need less of it (and FWIW, most
       | adults, too).
        
         | wepple wrote:
         | > Generations of kids survived without their parents needing to
         | know their location at all times.
         | 
         | And cars used to be safe even without seatbelts!
         | 
         | It turns out times change. Before you think I'm disagreeing
         | with the entirety of your comment, my own kids are the most
         | free-range in-the-dirt kids I know. But it's location-
         | dependent. I trust cities and their people far less than wild
         | animals.
        
           | NullPrefix wrote:
           | >And cars used to be safe even without seatbelts!
           | 
           | Me and a lot of people wear them purely out of fear of being
           | robbed by the state
        
             | forgotusername6 wrote:
             | I met a guy who didn't wear his seatbelt. He was a delivery
             | driver and in a collision at 20mph. His head went through
             | the windscreen and it scalped him from the eyes up. He had
             | a scar all the way across from ear to ear. He couldn't shut
             | his eyes for months. He wears his seatbelt now.
        
           | swatcoder wrote:
           | The purpose of cars is to get people from place to place.
           | That purpose isn't hampered by wearing a seatbelt. There's
           | not even a compromise involved. It's all upside.
           | 
           | The purpose of childhood is _produce future adults_. That
           | purpose isn 't fully served when kids get too far removed
           | from choices, risks, and consequences. Yes, we _also_ need to
           | make sure they stay alive, but survival can 't be the only
           | metric parents optimize for or they'll just produce confused
           | old kids trying to live adult lives. (`Big`, but for real and
           | without a magical fix in act 3.)
        
           | daymanstep wrote:
           | > I trust cities and their people far less than wild animals.
           | 
           | Is this based on statistical reasoning?
           | 
           | Would you really rather leave your kid with say, a wild boar,
           | than with a person randomly chosen out of a city's
           | population?
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | > And cars used to be safe even without seatbelts!
           | 
           | No, they weren't, which is why this is a poor analogy. We
           | discovered that seatbelts could save an enormous number of
           | lives with minimal impact on individuals, so we mandated
           | them.
           | 
           | With child safety it's difficult to get comparable numbers
           | (overall crime spiked in the 90s, so it's difficult to say
           | whether kids were less safe because they had less tracking or
           | just that overall crime was higher then), a big reason
           | experts give for the reduction in crime affecting kids is
           | they're simply inside a whole lot more.
           | 
           | They'd be even safer if we just put them in a plastic bubble
           | I guess.
        
         | enragedcacti wrote:
         | For better or for worse the ship has definitely sailed on the
         | laissez-faire "be home before sunset" parenting of past
         | generations. Assuming that, its probably a net positive if a
         | product like this can give a parent who would otherwise be full
         | helicopter enough assurance to let their kid have more freedom
         | and independence. Especially if its in lieu of a smartphone.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | > For better or for worse the ship has definitely sailed on
           | the laissez-faire "be home before sunset" parenting of past
           | generations.
           | 
           | It's only "sailed" because (some) parents demand to know
           | where their kid is at all times. While I think it's difficult
           | for any individual parent to, say, forbid social media for
           | too long lest they ostracize their kid, saying "I won't track
           | my kids" is a choice any parent can make.
           | 
           | I just pity the kids of these helicopter parents. The youth
           | mental health crisis is no accident.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _the ship has definitely sailed on the laissez-faire "be
           | home before sunset" parenting of past generations_
           | 
           | This depends on where you are. In particular, it seems to
           | depend on how wealthy your neighbours are.
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > For better or for worse the ship has definitely sailed on
           | the laissez-faire "be home before sunset" parenting of past
           | generations.
           | 
           | It was a good [entirety of human history] age. I'll miss it.
        
         | TomJansen wrote:
         | I agree with this 1000%. Kids need to be free and explore
         | things on their own.
         | 
         | Why are we living in a world where we think that kids do not
         | deserve privacy? Or where we think that we cannot trust our
         | children?
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Kids don 't need more tech, they need less of it (and FWIW,
         | most adults, too)._
         | 
         | There was a "looking back" piece of WGN-TV last week about a
         | 10-year-old and a 14-year-old who rode their horses from
         | Missouri to New York City to meet Roosevelt. Alone. All they
         | had with them was canteens, and a map.
         | 
         | Then they bought a car with the money they raised along the
         | way, and drove home to Missouri. Alone.
         | 
         | Today you can't get an adult to sit on a chair for 30 minutes
         | without them using a phone, a water bottle, or both as a
         | pacifier.
        
           | qwerpy wrote:
           | > using a phone, a water bottle, or both as a pacifier
           | 
           | I slowly put my phone down in shame after reading this. But I
           | really love this sentence because of how true it is. Why is
           | it always a phone and a water bottle?
        
         | Rebuff5007 wrote:
         | Having kids solely use a smart watch with some amount of
         | connectedness (GPS, phone calls, a game or two) seems healthier
         | and considerably "less tech" than a full on smartphone.
        
         | nytesky wrote:
         | In principle I agree we don't need to track our kids. But when
         | I was I a free range kid in the 80s, there were pay phones at
         | every corner, I carried coins and a calling card so could reach
         | my parents.
         | 
         | Now they have to interact with an adult somewhere to use their
         | personal phone. And the adult has to trust this isn't a ruffian
         | looking to swipe his phone for kicks.
         | 
         | But a cell capable watch for $200 is pretty compelling; the
         | Apple SE is sync only right, so equivalent apple watch is
         | $350+?
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | How will this work out with grade school kids' socialization,
       | when some kids in a class have the neat smartwatches, but some
       | don't?
       | 
       | I remember very much noticing as a young kid that I didn't have
       | some things some other kids had. But most of the time that was at
       | home, rather than visible every day. And I was also a bit aware
       | that some other kids had less than I did. (Parochial school
       | uniforms helped.)
        
       | LeoNatan25 wrote:
       | > Requires Ace Pass data plan $9.99/mo.
       | 
       | LOL
        
       | alooPotato wrote:
       | This reminds me of an idea I've been noodling on for a bit about
       | my kids. I want them to be able to take more risks and be more
       | independent - but counterintuitively, I think this means putting
       | them in a safer environment.
       | 
       | For example, I'd be waaaay more comfortable letting my young kids
       | (6yrs old) roam around outside the house if will lived in a safe
       | suburb rather than a city. I think the same is true for this type
       | of watch, I'd let them do more stuff at a younger age if I knew I
       | could always get a hold of them and knew where they were.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | But that's not taking more risks, that's taking the same amount
         | of risks, just doing more with it.
        
       | mustang-med wrote:
       | My partner is on one of the teams responsible for red tape and
       | cost-cutting at Alphabet. After having frequent conversations
       | about past failed projects, I'm surprised this project got the
       | green light. Personally, I don't see this product taking off. As
       | a parent, I think it looks quite lame, and I don't think anyone
       | at Google knows how to break into product areas for kids. I've
       | seen quite a few headlines concerned about Nvidia being the next
       | Cisco, but as someone who has had family at both Cisco and Google
       | over the last 30 years, I really think Alphabet is more likely to
       | become the next Cisco, where middle-aged engineers go to work for
       | 30 hours a week to keep the internet's backbone afloat.
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | I worked on Android Wear many, many, years ago. 2016ish. This
         | segment and use case was quietly huge, massive, in at least
         | China, and I bet it still is. (Left google late 23)
         | 
         | I'd love to hear more about this team for cost cutting, it
         | really messed things up*: external, or internal?
         | 
         | * You may imagine I am finding some humor in "my SO is on the
         | google cost cutting team and I don't get why this team exists,
         | why would anyone want a watch for their kid." I am, but I
         | understand where you're coming from, and I'm sure your SO
         | likely would have learned more about the watch market before
         | making similar decisions
        
         | canucker2016 wrote:
         | Just based on the UI, I can see the user age range being
         | limited to 7-11/12 year olds.
         | 
         | Teens won't want this on their wrist in high school.
        
         | drewg123 wrote:
         | Tell her to look at the travel system. At least when I was
         | there a decade ago, they gameified it so that we needed to come
         | in below the average cost for a flight, otherwise we needed VP
         | approval. But if we came in under the average, you could bank
         | the savings and use it to upgrade to first class, etc.
         | 
         | This sounds great on paper: incentivizing employees to reduce
         | travel costs and rewarding them for it! But in reality, you'd
         | have engineers payed substantial fractions of a million dollars
         | in total comp wasting hours booking travel, hoping to bank
         | savings to use on later upgrades.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | > I'm surprised this project got the green light.
         | 
         | To me, it looks just like another example of Googs missing the
         | boat and attempting to play catch up in an attempt to stay
         | relevant by imitating what someone else does. Maybe that's a
         | gross oversimplification, but that's the way it comes across to
         | me. This thing clearly chasing Apple's device. Googs+ clearly
         | chasing Facebook. Of course, there's their rash attempt at an
         | AI. Googs just comes across a company without any focus other
         | than AdSense, but desperately want to not remembered as a tech
         | company that became an ad company.
        
         | dzonga wrote:
         | this is the risk, no matter how useful products are. Google
         | just cuts products at a whim. and sends products to the
         | graveyard. even the one's that wouldn't cost 1 engineer -
         | looking at you - Google Podcasts.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Google tracking yo kids, your moma, papa, sisters. Build a ad
       | profile early, even a family profile, gotta serve them good ads
        
       | tanker_root wrote:
       | The 5% of the world that makes most of the decisions has an
       | active interest in creating a labor force that will passively and
       | diligently maintain order.
       | 
       | The subconscious drive to give young children technology is no
       | different in its psychohistorical origins than the Hitler Youth.
       | One could ask for what purpose does somebody want to "monitor"
       | themselves.
       | 
       | Is it for any great works or for the prolongation of bare life
       | through the min-maxing of REM cycles.
        
       | julienreszka wrote:
       | > wild things
       | 
       | That formulation is poor taste imo
        
       | srameshc wrote:
       | LTE is good, but what is the subscription for? A sturdy LTE watch
       | that can call and text would have been great. This product is
       | dead on arrival.
        
       | kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
       | Gabb wireless and others have had this for ages, for much
       | cheaper.
        
       | canucker2016 wrote:
       | People who have parents/relatives with cognitive problems might
       | want this for tracking purposes.
        
       | mrinterweb wrote:
       | $230 is a bit high up-front cost for a kids watch. Compare this
       | to something like TickTalk and it seems that TickTalk has more
       | features. https://www.myticktalk.com/. The design of the Google
       | kids watch does look nicer though. TickTalk is pretty bulky and
       | the UI is not great.
        
       | dtx1 wrote:
       | Sounds cool, looking forward to it getting killed in 3 weeks.
        
       | nytesky wrote:
       | It says GPS location, but does it do mapping? That and calling
       | are like the two most valuable features (only 20 contacts, so no
       | group chats with his class?)
        
       | ugh123 wrote:
       | This is an interesting move by Google. The watch market for kids
       | is _huge_ and growing. Look at the major companies sales here.
       | Also look at the amount of kid 's smart watches available on
       | Amazon and number of reviews (I know, i'm sure some of those are
       | fake yada yada).
       | 
       | The detractors here say "let the kids be free" and "no new tech
       | for kids", but I wonder if those people have kids today? Parents
       | _WANT_ to give their kid 's more outdoor freedom in this f'd up
       | world. Tracking products like this _give them more peace of
       | mind_.
       | 
       | At $10/month (or $5/mo with annual buy), this is competitive and
       | possibly a new recurring revenue stream for Google's consumer
       | products group.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Does it come in ankle bracelet form factor?
        
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