[HN Gopher] Kids sickened by police training may have ingested d...
___________________________________________________________________
Kids sickened by police training may have ingested decades old
chemical weapons
Author : anigbrowl
Score : 46 points
Date : 2024-05-29 17:57 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sfchronicle.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sfchronicle.com)
| nimbius wrote:
| In 2024 it feels like nobody in government knows exactly what law
| enforcement needs to do anymore, but by god they'd better do
| everything because legislators are powerless to reform or
| regulate the unforeseen consequences of Reagan era neoliberalism.
|
| deploying riot cops with ancient chemical weapons near children
| should get your mayor railroaded into a job at McDonalds.
| chabes wrote:
| It's not just the Mayor's issue. Maybe hold the police
| accountable as well.
| seadan83 wrote:
| My impression is the accountability is not there. The city
| just settles, the money comes out of taxpayer pockets. I will
| be shocked if any police officer, seargent, anyone, loses
| pay, demoted, or held accountable for criminal negligence.
|
| With regards to settlements, For example, since George
| Floyd's murder in 2020, on average police forces have spent
| $5M of tax payer* money each month settling police violence
| lawsuits [1]
|
| [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-
| news/article/2024/may/25/poli...
|
| * I emphasize tax payer as the funds do not come from police
| budgets, but instead city coffers.
| drewcoo wrote:
| > Reagan era neoliberalism
|
| Personally, I loathe Ronald Reagan, but neoliberalism and
| deregulation started in the US under the Carter administration.
| sqeaky wrote:
| Calling tear gas a "chemical weapon" is technically accurate, but
| still a BS clickbait tactic. Teargas shouldn't have been anywhere
| near kids, but that won't get most of the press with headlines
| like this around.
|
| When people say "chemical weapon" they think "weapon of mass
| destruction" even if they don't know names like mustard gas, vx
| or seran. These are clearly very different categories of things.
|
| It sucks that this will get a pass from many people when they
| realize schoolkids weren't at risk of mass death, because teargas
| simply isn't going to kill a lot of kids. Should the cops have
| behaved better? Yes. Should they be in trouble for tear gassing
| kids? Yes. Will this be downplayed while people argue uselessly
| if this was or wasn't a chemical weapon attack while trying to
| get a better understanding of the story? Yes. Will this water
| down future talks of weapons of mass destruction as "Chemincal
| Weapons"? I think it will.
| seadan83 wrote:
| CS gas and tear gas are chemical weapons. Period. By
| definition. It is not a technical distinction. See WWI. The
| fact there are more deadly chemical weapons does not change
| that use of CS and tear gas are chemical weopons and their use
| in war would be war crimes
| TheBill wrote:
| The CWC does not treat tear gas as a banned chemical weapon,
| instead classifying it as a riot control agent (RCA). Article
| II(7) defines RCA as "[a]ny chemical ... which can produce
| rapidly in humans sensory irritation or disabling physical
| effects which disappear within a short time ... ." CWC
| Article I(5) prohibits using RCA "as a method of warfare,"
| but does not define the term method of warfare, leading to a
| potential exception or "loophole."
|
| https://www.justsecurity.org/76595/clearing-the-fog-of-
| war-s...
|
| Pedanticisim aside, the .mil requires risk assessments up the
| wazoo for every training event, let alone using CS/OC, and
| they should have expected this. Hope it deploys and
| dissipates for 60 year old anything is a bad gamble in the
| desert, let alone a built up occupied urban area.
| johnnyjeans wrote:
| He didn't say otherwise. Under the legal definition, my
| 'death vindaloo' made with 3 moruga scorpion peppers is a
| chemical weapon, and simply the act of cooking it as a
| combatant in a warzone would constitute a war crime. It's
| also immensely delicious and one of my favorite meals, I make
| it twice a month.
| observationist wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas
|
| CS gas and pepper spray - capsicin extract - were the two
| suspected substances.
|
| CS gas and the solvent it's in are incredibly toxic, and are
| known to be toxic. It can cause heart, lung, and liver damage in
| acute exposure. Degrading kids health and possibly taking years
| of their life expectancy deserves more accountability than an
| "oops, we'll do better next time!"
|
| Beyond the original chemicals in the CS gas canisters, the
| chemicals likely change over time, oxidizing and possibly mixing
| with chemicals in the container, so who knows what additional
| toxic hazard the expired canisters might have in store?
|
| Just brief exposure can result in sensitization, such that any
| future exposure could trigger something like an asthma attack or
| a huge inflammatory response.
|
| Absolutely nothing about this is ok.
|
| >>The source said it was not routine to deploy such a large
| amount of munitions in an area so close to civilian populations.
|
| Heads need to roll, or it'll just happen again. A whole lot of
| people made some very bad choices. Cops should be the most
| accountable of all members of society, given their authority.
|
| None of the cops involved should be trusted with anything more
| dangerous or complex than tying their shoes unless and until they
| can prove they've got _any_ respect for the rest of society.
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| This is what people are talking about when they say ACAB.
|
| Such agents are highly regulated and their risks are known in-
| depth: essentially, never use them if you can help it, and if
| they were part of a military this could be considered a warcrime
| if used improperly, ie, against civilians; see the section in the
| "Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production,
| Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction"
| on incapacitants and riot control agents for further information.
|
| Why the hell are random cops somewhere in the US training with
| weapons banned under international conventions? They aren't
| military personnel, they're civilians working for some smaller
| town in California. Charge them, try them, drop their asses in
| San Quentin, and inform genpop that they have esteemed guests.
| nytesky wrote:
| I was shocked that manufacturers don't disclose the entire
| ingredient list for their tear gas. This stuff is inhaled by
| civilians, the contents should be required to be available to the
| public.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-05-29 23:03 UTC)