[HN Gopher] Gone 10 years, World's Biggest Bookstore still grips...
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       Gone 10 years, World's Biggest Bookstore still grips readers
        
       Author : daveoc64
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2024-05-28 12:27 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thestar.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thestar.com)
        
       | guyzero wrote:
       | Going to The WBB in the 80's was a great experience. So many
       | books to browse, it felt like they had every magazine and
       | periodical in existence. But it did get a lot worse by the
       | 2000's, turning into what Indigo has become selling gifts and
       | other things. But definitely a high point of the pre-2000 retail
       | experience like the huge record stores on Yonge St that are now
       | all gone. Also, in a Toronto Gen X retail deep cut, Mr Gameways
       | Ark was just up the street and was a mecca for 80's Toronto D&D
       | players.
        
         | VancouverMan wrote:
         | Just this morning, a colleague of mine in Toronto forwarded me
         | a link to a very recent video showing the current state of
         | Yonge in that area:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0onFRIQrGQ
         | 
         | That video starts just slightly north of where this bookstore
         | and the stores you mentioned were, and goes up past Bloor.
         | 
         | It is sad to see how sterile, and how deserted (in terms of
         | people and businesses), that area has since become, especially
         | as somebody who had experienced it decades ago.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | I can still smell the place!
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | Sounds like the WBB was to Toronto what Powell's is to Portland.
       | Are there other bookstores like this around the world? Let's hope
       | some of them can survive and thrive.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Probably the Strand in NY qualifies. Although it's probably
         | mostly small niche indies (and some a bit bigger) that are the
         | most interesting other than the big outliers.
        
           | mihaic wrote:
           | I live in Romania, and Strand is one of the places I revisit
           | absolutely every single time I'm in NY.
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | Powell's original location in Portland is nothing short of
         | amazing. Its a multi story bookstore that is well organized and
         | easy to browse, its really quite an experience for any who may
         | describe themselves as a 'book lover' or 'book connoisseur'.
         | 
         | Its really an enjoyable experience.
        
           | darknavi wrote:
           | Powell's is a must-stop when ever we drive through Portland.
           | Such a fun place to explore and nab a few books.
        
           | selimthegrim wrote:
           | The dearly departed technical bookstore was only equalled by
           | Berkeley
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | The top floor also has a rare books room that is a joy to
           | browse. Last time I went there was only two items they
           | wouldn't let me take out and peruse: the Lewis and Clark
           | journals worth half a million that they kept off site and a
           | 600 year old Italian manuscript.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | Powells is amazing! We love taking the kids there, browsing,
         | picking up some new books, and all four of us reading in the
         | cafe.
        
         | mturmon wrote:
         | the Last Bookstore in LA: https://www.lastbookstorela.com
        
           | oldmanhorton wrote:
           | Strong disagree. So much space dedicated to touristy pictures
           | that could be used for books instead. Very poorly laid out
           | and hard to get around all of the people taking selfies, and
           | even once you do I found their book selection to be
           | lackluster (at least for historical non-fiction)
        
             | solomonb wrote:
             | I agree, it really doesn't have very many books.
        
         | entropicdrifter wrote:
         | Baltimore used to have a really cool Barnes and Noble in a
         | former power plant building. Place closed back in 2020.
        
         | garciansmith wrote:
         | John K. King Used & Rare Books in Detroit. Four stories of used
         | books housed in an old glove factory (plus an adjacent building
         | with their rare stuff, art annex, and storage, though that's by
         | appointment only). Definitely worth a visit! (Full disclosure:
         | I worked there for many years.)
         | 
         | https://www.johnkingbooksdetroit.com/browse
        
         | CalChris wrote:
         | Powell's is pretty cool. San Francisco has Green Apple and
         | Berkeley has Moe's.
         | 
         | OpAmp in LA was awesome, sadly in the past tense.
        
           | mc32 wrote:
           | Green apple over on Clement is a fire hazard. The other one
           | is small.
        
         | kd5bjo wrote:
         | There's the Tattered Cover in Denver, but it's apparently in
         | the middle of bankruptcy right now-- might not last much
         | longer.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattered_Cover
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | No!! I love Tattered Cover, I have been going out of my way
           | to purchase books there ever since I moved to the Denver
           | area. I'm super bummed to find out they are struggling that
           | much. Hopefully they are able to keep the dream alive!
        
         | solomonb wrote:
         | Moe's Books in Berkeley.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Are there other bookstores like this around the world? Let's
         | hope some of them can survive and thrive._
         | 
         | I've come to deduce that the death of bookstores is nothing
         | more than a trope pushed by tech fetishists.
         | 
         | Last Thursday evening, I sat in the cafe of a chain bookstore
         | in a major American city while my wife was browsing, and
         | counted the people. There were close to 70 in my field of view,
         | and in the 40ish minutes I sat there, over 100 people came in.
         | The line at the checkout never had fewer than five people in
         | it, and often more than a dozen.
         | 
         | A couple of weeks ago, I drove past my local bookstore (also a
         | big chain) before it opened, and there was dozens and dozens of
         | people waiting in line to get in.
         | 
         | Books aren't dead. Reading isn't dead. Acknowledging that there
         | are people who enjoy different things than you do is dead.
        
           | garciansmith wrote:
           | I don't think it's just techies who believe that (although
           | plenty do, for sure!). Lots of regular non-techie people
           | think only old people care about books, for instance. When I
           | worked at a used bookstore (left just before COVID), family
           | members would make comments like that and seemed surprised
           | when I told them we had tons of people in their teens and 20s
           | coming in and buying books (used and old ones at that!).
           | 
           | It is true that the bookstore business has faced a lot of
           | downturns: indie bookstores were really hurt by the big chain
           | stores, Barnes & Nobles and Borders in the '90s, then Amazon
           | and online shopping hurt them all some more. But the indie
           | scene is stronger than it was, say, 15 years ago. A lot more
           | smaller and niche shops have been opening up (at least in US
           | cities I'm familiar with).
        
           | glitcher wrote:
           | It's probably a mistake to arrive at a conclusion in either
           | direction based solely on anecdotal evidence. Unless the
           | conclusion is specifically just for one localized area being
           | observed, as opposed to extending those conclusions to all
           | bookstores everywhere.
        
         | briffle wrote:
         | according to this article, Powells is larger than the one in
         | the article by many thousand SQ feet, but maybe they were
         | measuring it by..
         | 
         | Oh:
         | 
         | Opened in 1980 in the former Olympia Bowling Alley building,
         | the World's Biggest Bookstore may not, in fact, have been the
         | world's biggest bookstore. It was a marketing gambit by Jack
         | Cole, who owned Coles and SmithBooks, and thought "a massive
         | bookstore would do well for Toronto," as his son David told the
         | National Post in 2014. He paid a reported $2.4 million for the
         | property
        
         | FireBeyond wrote:
         | It's also arguable that Powell's is bigger. They mention 68,000
         | sq ft, while this one in Toronto was 64,000.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | Waterstones in Picadilly in London is in a 90,000 sq ft
           | building, but I'm not sure if all of it is used for the book
           | store (abd even within the book store I guess it depends if
           | you count onky public spaces, and if you include thr cafes
           | etc.. They claim 200k titles.
        
         | tkgally wrote:
         | The Kanda-Jimbocho area of Tokyo has over a hundred bookstores
         | within a few blocks [1].
         | 
         | Aside from a break for a few years during the pandemic, I've
         | been buying books there for four decades. The neighborhood has
         | evolved over time, and some large stores that stocked only new
         | books have closed. But the market for used and antiquarian
         | books must still be strong, as many of the old stores are still
         | in business and quite a few new ones have opened in recent
         | years.
         | 
         | Most of the books are in Japanese, and the neighborhood,
         | despite being centrally located, doesn't attract many foreign
         | tourists.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.jimbou.info/
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | > _Opened in 1980 in the former Olympia Bowling Alley building,
       | the World's Biggest Bookstore may not, in fact, have been the
       | world's biggest bookstore._
       | 
       | It might have been at some point, but by the time it closed I
       | think Powell's was bigger.
        
       | bdowling wrote:
       | This reminds me of the Computer Literacy Bookshops in Silicon
       | Valley.
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Literacy_Bookshops
        
         | starkparker wrote:
         | Powell's in Portland also did this for a moment.
         | 
         | Some point in the early-2010s they rented a retail space across
         | from the main store and moved their engineering and computer-
         | related books into a technical annex, and topped all the
         | shelves with vintage equipment and old computers.
         | 
         | It got folded back into the main store around 2014, and the
         | selection is still good, but I really liked it having its own
         | cozy, dedicated space.
        
           | galago wrote:
           | Before that there was Powell's Techinical Bookstore on the
           | North park blocks. That store had a cat named Fup that was
           | really old. Every year, they would print birthday stickers
           | for the cat and give them away. I still have one that I use
           | as a bookstore from when the cat turned 18.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | It made the front page of Reddit when Fup the cat died at
             | the age of 19. In those days, Reddit was for Hackernews
             | types and not... what it is now.
        
             | lelandfe wrote:
             | You'll enjoy this thread on Reddit from last year: https://
             | www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/13ft7q0/who_else_...
             | 
             | Awesome to see soo many remembering that cat. Also,
             | 
             | > _I was a programmer for Powell 's for 22 years. One thing
             | I programmed into the lookup stations at the main store was
             | a search for fup got you a picture of him._
        
           | cylinder714 wrote:
           | Yes! I got my copy of SICP there.
        
             | selimthegrim wrote:
             | I did too as well as Programming Pearls.
        
           | PheonixPharts wrote:
           | Powell's technical books was amazing!
           | 
           | Sadly there's very few technical book stores left in the US.
           | The only two I can think of are:
           | 
           | - Ada books in Seattle, WA
           | 
           | - MIT Press bookstore in Cambridge, MA
           | 
           | Are there any others that still exit?
        
         | cylinder714 wrote:
         | I used to make the pilgrimage from Santa Cruz to the store on
         | N. First Street, and occasionally the store on the old Apple
         | campus.
         | 
         | And Stacy's Books in Cupertino and Market Street in San
         | Francisco, and the last holdout, Digital Guru off the Lawrence
         | Expressway.
        
         | throw0101d wrote:
         | > _This reminds me of the Computer Literacy Bookshops_ [...]
         | 
         | Toronto used to have Toronto Computer Books up until the
         | mid-2000s (on Yonge, a few blocks up the street from the WBB of
         | this article):
         | 
         | *
         | https://www.profilecanada.com/companydetail.cfm?company=2524...
         | 
         | Bought a bunch of Perl stuff as well as the Sendmail 'bat book'
         | there, back in the day.
        
       | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
       | Alas with the rise of the Internet and e-commerce, bookstores
       | have been on a slow but firm downward trend.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | This is factually incorrect, independent bookstores are
         | increasing in number.
         | 
         | https://apnews.com/article/independent-bookstores-membership...
        
           | samatman wrote:
           | This reply is factually irrelevant, a minor bounce back from
           | pandemic closures is unrelated to the fact that the spread of
           | e-commerce lead to massive closures of bookstores a couple
           | decades ago. They have by no means recovered to anything
           | resembling their pre-Amazon numbers.
        
             | dangus wrote:
             | Growth since 2009
             | 
             | Page 8 (PDF)
             | 
             | https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/20-068_c19963e7
             | -...
             | 
             | Please note that I never claimed they had "Amazon numbers."
             | I never claimed that they were as prevalent as they were
             | pre-e-commerce. I'm merely stating that a "slow but firm
             | downward trend" is not correct.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | > They have by no means recovered to anything resembling
               | their pre-Amazon numbers.
               | 
               | > Please note that I never claimed they had "Amazon
               | numbers." I never claimed that they were as prevalent as
               | they were pre-e-commerce.
               | 
               | You seem to be arguing different points here (despite the
               | quotes). They are talking about the bookstores returning
               | to their own pre-Amazon numbers.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | No, the person I originally replied to described the
               | alleged "slow and firm downward trend" of bookstores
               | since e-commerce came around.
               | 
               | However, after an initial decline due to competition from
               | e-commerce, independent bookstores have been growing
               | since 2009.
               | 
               | The person who replied to me would have been correct if
               | they were posting their comment in the mid-2000s, but
               | their statement has not been true since 2009.
               | 
               | I provided sources and data to back myself up and nobody
               | arguing against my point has.
               | 
               | I have not at any point changed the argument I am making
               | nor have I moved any goal posts. The entirety of my
               | argument is that in recent years independent booksellers
               | have been on an upward trend. I never made any claim
               | about their sales compared to Amazon. I never claimed
               | that the industry never faced decline. I am merely fact
               | checking the original statement that the industry is
               | allegedly in a downward trend.
        
       | adamgordonbell wrote:
       | I went when it was part of Indigo chain and I would say its
       | aesthetics didn't match the 'book superstore' vibe of Chapters or
       | its parent company, but just the volume of books made up for it.
       | 
       | It had a great selection of SciFi books.
        
         | roter wrote:
         | I remember having more luck at Bakka Books back in the 80s when
         | it was on Queen St. Looks like it still exists in perhaps a
         | reduced form [0].
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakka-Phoenix
        
           | throw0101d wrote:
           | https://www.bakkaphoenixbooks.com
        
           | adamgordonbell wrote:
           | Sweet, I should check it out next time I'm in the city.
        
       | lern_too_spel wrote:
       | Most people not from Toronto that have heard about WBB remember
       | it from Short Circuit 2.
       | https://youtu.be/AbkbU32X5dI?si=rDQmmGk75lm8ElPA
        
       | ink_13 wrote:
       | A shame the title has been mangled by HN's filters. The store's
       | actual name was "The World's Biggest Bookstore".
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | Yeah, it was way too long to fit it all in!
        
       | throw0101d wrote:
       | https://archive.is/cXThE
       | 
       | https://archive.today/cXThE
        
       | BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 wrote:
       | WBB was a favorite place to discover and explore topics.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Looking at the exterior photo, it's nice to see that they
       | encourage hanging out there... so many businesses are trying to
       | get rid of people these days.
        
       | randcraw wrote:
       | The original Border's in Ann Arbor was pretty great. It was my
       | chief reason to visit town when in SE Michigan.
        
       | trentnix wrote:
       | The longtime YouTuber Happyconsolegamer (who is among the most
       | genuine, excellent, consistent, and passionate of his kind and
       | who I've been watching for something like 15! years) tells a
       | great story about this amazing book store. Turns out his late dad
       | managed the store a few decades back and the amazing stuff in the
       | store was a big part of why HCG is so entrenched in retro
       | nerdity. Enjoy:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/mTJlcBAPazQ?si=d-LZgCIJwUIrzulm
        
       | Zod666 wrote:
       | I used to go all the time, just walking in there gave me this
       | good feeling. like many industries, the internet killed it.
        
       | busterarm wrote:
       | I always got diverted on my way there by Funland Arcade across
       | from Sam's.
       | 
       | All three are gone and it feels like a tragedy.
        
         | lunatuna wrote:
         | That was the perfect trinity for me. Not sure I see it as a
         | tragedy, but I do hate the feeling of nostalgia and knowing I
         | can never get back to that time and place. I was down there
         | semi-regularly from my mid-teens to early twenties. Overall
         | great time in my life and I think for Toronto at large. Even if
         | they still existed I could never get back to that point in
         | time.
        
       | darepublic wrote:
       | Fond memories of visiting this place as a kid. Parents used to
       | bring us there maybe once or twice a year and it was a treat.
        
       | astrodust wrote:
       | Back before documentation became available online, the technical
       | books section at this store was perhaps the largest repository of
       | technical documentation available in town. The selection was in a
       | part of the store bigger than most mall bookstores, entirely
       | technical books on the tall shelves from top to bottom.
       | 
       | I bought dozens of O'Reilly books from that location over the
       | years.
        
         | lunatuna wrote:
         | I bought an early version of Redhat on CDs there along with my
         | tech books. I was then able to get to my own mail and ftp
         | server going. WBB might even get some credit for my career
         | path.
        
       | localhost wrote:
       | I bought my shareware copy of DOOM from WBB, alongside many other
       | books.
        
       | murphyslab wrote:
       | I remembering visiting WBB at 20 Edward St when I lived in the
       | GTA during a co-op term. But the real treasures I found were
       | usually in BMV Books next door at 10 Edward St. BMV offered
       | incredible collection of vintage books and magazines. I recall
       | the owner guaranteeing to me that he could find any book sold at
       | WBB and get it to me cheaper. Glad to see that it's still
       | standing.
        
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