[HN Gopher] Controlling the Taylor Swift Eras Tour wristbands wi...
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Controlling the Taylor Swift Eras Tour wristbands with Flipper Zero
Author : jgrahamc
Score : 404 points
Date : 2024-05-27 16:55 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.jgc.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.jgc.org)
| tanseydavid wrote:
| Now you've done it. Worldwide Flipper ban incoming over this.
| </sarc>
| doubled112 wrote:
| Can be used with cars and wristbands? Won't anybody think of
| the children?
| neilv wrote:
| I had a similar thought, given recent news around negligent
| automaker security and scapegoating.
|
| For people who don't want the Flipper Zero banned... I suspect
| it might be smart to leave the name of the tool out of
| headlines.
|
| And when we do mention what tool we used in body of the
| article, that same sentence, or one next to it, should be clear
| that we're using such-and-such standard technology (e.g., RF or
| IR), and that the Flipper Zero is only one of many options for
| doing that.
|
| Promoting a particular product in headlines can be nice, but
| counterproductive if that same visibility is getting the
| product banned entirely.
| rvba wrote:
| Those wristbands are a great example of manufacturing non
| recyclable garbage.
|
| I understand that some fans might still want some souvenier, but
| this particular thing is an example of unecological waste.
| jgrahamc wrote:
| Except that they aren't because they are literally collected at
| the end of the show and they can easily be opened and the
| batteries replaced. So they can be used from show to show.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Hopefully they're cleaned somehow...?
| will1am wrote:
| Have the same thought
| barbazoo wrote:
| Are they being reused? Otherwise it's like 3D glasses that in
| many locations are just thrown into recycling.
|
| Edit: From their sustainability page it seems like they're
| actually "refurbished" and reused. :+1:
| palata wrote:
| Them being collected does not mean that they are reused. But
| hopefully they are, because they make a lot of them.
|
| The thing is: if it's more profitable to make new ones than
| to reuse the old ones, they most certainly will go that way.
| skipants wrote:
| They have this sustainability part on their website:
| https://pixmob.com/sustainability
|
| It does look like they have boxes for you to return it at the
| end of the show. It doesn't seem too bad when I take it at face
| value. I'm sure the reality of how sustainable it is is a bit
| more complex.
| Maxion wrote:
| It's obviously not sustainable on any level, it's a device
| produced for effects. Concerts in general aren't sustainable.
| Most of the things we do aren't sustainable.
|
| It's nice that they collect them after shows, but still
| shouldn't call this product sustainable.
| samatman wrote:
| I disagree. I expect industrial civilization will continue
| indefinitely, meaning, we will continue manufacturing cute
| special-effect gizmos, and having fancy concerts with
| millions of dollars in special-purpose manufactured goods,
| and people will continue to have fun.
|
| That's what sustainable means.
| Carrok wrote:
| > That's what sustainable means.
|
| No. No it is not.
| palata wrote:
| > That's what sustainable means.
|
| That's not how words work. You can't just make up their
| meaning like this.
| avarun wrote:
| > sustainable
|
| > _adjective_
|
| > 1. able to be maintained at a certain rate or level.
|
| It is quite literally what sustainable means. Maybe don't
| go around correcting people on the meaning of words if
| you haven't bothered checking a dictionary?
| palata wrote:
| Not sure if you are in bad faith or genuinely don't know
| how words work. Here is some help:
|
| 1. Go back to the parent, and understand the context in
| which "sustainable" is used here.
|
| 2. Convince yourself that the discussion is about
| "sustainable development":
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_development
|
| Edit: I am concerned that you may not find the origin of
| the thread, so let me copy it here for you:
|
| > Those wristbands are a great example of manufacturing
| non recyclable garbage.
| nemomarx wrote:
| They're non recyclable, but they seem very repairable and
| reusable? As long as people return them after the show
| the actual waste and churn is lower than something like
| plastic packaging, and might beat similar concert light
| sticks that don't have a removable battery. At minimum
| can't the batteries from these be taken out for
| recycling?
| palata wrote:
| I was answering to the comment that said:
|
| > I disagree. I expect industrial civilization will
| continue indefinitely, meaning, we will continue
| manufacturing cute special-effect gizmos, and having
| fancy concerts with millions of dollars in special-
| purpose manufactured goods, and people will continue to
| have fun. > > That's what sustainable means.
|
| But yes, I agree that it's better if they are actually
| repaired and reused. But being repairable and reusable is
| not enough: recycling, in general, doesn't really do what
| people expect (which is something like "it does no harm
| because it was recycled"). It's actually surprisingly
| hard to meaningfully recycle anything at all.
|
| In this case, if it's more profitable to get new ones
| every time, that's probably the only incentive they need
| to _not_ repair and reuse any of those.
| lol768 wrote:
| > It does look like they have boxes for you to return it at
| the end of the show. It doesn't seem too bad when I take it
| at face value. I'm sure the reality of how sustainable it is
| is a bit more complex.
|
| They do - and at the Coldplay concert I went to, they tried
| to gamify it a bit by ranking cities by their return rates.
| Cardiff was unfortunately not at the top, though I did return
| mine!
| jdiff wrote:
| > Since these wristbands are designed for reuse they are easily
| opened revealing two batteries and a lovely little circuit
| board.
|
| The only part that has a shorter shelf life than the rest is
| the fabric part of the wristband which may later be swapped out
| to serve another show.
| basil-rash wrote:
| What a delightfully simple solution! I have to imagine if I were
| given this problem I would muck it all up with wristbands
| assigned to seats and a 5G/IOT network needing to be installed at
| every stadium and custom control logic needing to be written and
| customized for every stadium...
|
| Whereas they just hook up an IR lamp and use the exact same
| lighting control procedures every stage tech knows blindfolded.
| Brilliant!
| stavros wrote:
| I had the same reaction, this is a really hard problem, unless
| you solve it the way they did. Ingenious.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I also appreciate when designers recognize "this is the kind of
| thing where a 95% hit rate is fine."
| preinheimer wrote:
| I think there's also the whole "the people with the wrist
| bands -want- them to work" part. Which is super helpful.
|
| Yes, you could hide your band under your hand, now it's not
| glowing like everyone else's... congrats you feel left out.
| epmatsw wrote:
| I spent an honestly embarrassing amount of time at the first
| show I went to trying to figure out how they'd managed it.
| CPLX wrote:
| If you watch the video at the top of the article it looks like
| they actually have a couple options. Infared is one, but
| there's also bluetooth and RF control as well, and there's
| video of a feature where people are entering their seat
| information to participate.
| amluto wrote:
| To be clear, this is a 38kHz modulated IR system, and it's not
| likely to work like a DMX light.
|
| 38kHz IR is an _extremely_ mature technology. The transmit and
| receive sides are made in huge volumes, complete with
| integrated modulators and demodulators. There's a receiver in
| basically every piece of consumer A /V equipment and a
| transmitter in almost every remote control. You used to be able
| to buy them at Radio Shack!
| krisoft wrote:
| > it's not likely to work like a DMX light
|
| That is not what the manufacturer says: "Our wash works with
| a standard professional lighting rigging yoke and DMX 512."
| [1]
|
| Wash is the name they use for the lamp which sends the
| controlling signal.
|
| 1: https://pixmob.com/our-effects
| eastdakota wrote:
| I may have gone to the Taylor Swift show in Lisbon, wondered how
| they were able to precisely control these without carefully
| handing them out, gathered a few from my fellow concert goers,
| and presented them to John last night over dinner with a
| challenge to figure it out. All my guesses were more complicated
| than the actual answer.
| jgrahamc wrote:
| Thank you for the nerd-snipe, but thank goodness others had
| done the reverse engineering otherwise this would have been a
| long night...
| eastdakota wrote:
| I still wonder if it would be possible for a rogue concert
| goer to hijack a side of the stadium to display something.
| All sorts of trouble you could cause.
| stavros wrote:
| Well, it would, if you had a 30W infrared spotlight with
| you.
| eastdakota wrote:
| Which begs the question: how hard is it to build a 30W,
| portable IR spotlight that you could get through a
| concert's metal detector unnoticed?
| mcpherrinm wrote:
| > Taking photos/videos on small hand-held cameras and
| smartphones is permitted.
|
| I suspect you could fit that into the form factor for a
| "small hand-held camera" that is apparently permitted
| into the tour.
| amluto wrote:
| It would be a fantastic form factor. After all, such a
| device wants a decently large battery, focusing optics,
| and an emitting surface at the focal plane big enough to
| dissipate the waste heat. This sounds a lot like a small
| digital camera with the sensor removed and an IR LED
| array put in its place.
|
| Anyone aiming such a device across the venue would be
| _extremely obvious_ , as everyone else's inadequately
| filtered camera would see it :)
| amne wrote:
| drones? that's a whole 'nother can of worms but it could
| work if you really .. really .. really want to be part of
| the light show.
| eastdakota wrote:
| Oh... drones are a really devious idea. You can imagine
| all sorts of political messages that someone may want to
| leverage an event like this to broadcast.
| tracerbulletx wrote:
| Flying a drone over a major concert is liable to get you
| charged with terrorism somehow even if you're just trying
| to do a prank.
| lupire wrote:
| Is 30W enough for a stadium audience?
| alecco wrote:
| There are a few at great locations in the stadium
| already.
| K0balt wrote:
| It transmits a code, so you'd have to clone the signal
| but I'm pretty sure it's not cryptographic or anything.
| eastdakota wrote:
| Also wonder if there's a buffer overflow attack or some
| command that could cause them to get stuck flashing rapidly
| or something that would be really annoying. Surprised by
| the lack of encryption or any security on devices like
| these. For a long time there was no encryption on the Shure
| wireless mics most big shows use. Hopefully that's been
| corrected as that seems like a real way you could cause
| (dangerous) problems at an event like a stadium concert.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > Surprised by the lack of encryption or any security on
| devices like these.
|
| Note how the worst scenario you could think of was "get
| stuck flashing rapidly". That's why there's no
| encryption.
|
| I suppose you could (partially) ruin a concert if you
| infected all (or most) of the wristbands with your random
| blinking virus. But hitting so many would be hard, and
| for what gain?
| yardstick wrote:
| Seems more like the sort of thing someone at 4chan or
| similar would do, just because they could. For shits and
| giggles.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| But how is a random 4chaner getting a bluetooth signal
| close enough to all parts of the stadium without being
| noticed?
| iceburgcrm wrote:
| Inside person or from above or from below
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| This is a _really lame_ James Bond movie!
|
| I recognize that it is _technically possible_ to cause
| mischief with these things, but they require access to
| substantial resources _and_ are likely to get you
| arrested, all in the pursuit of basically nothing.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| Bluetooth range is only limited if you care about
| transmission power regulations.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| If you don't care about transmission power regulations
| you could also just jam the sound system, to heck with
| the pretty lights.
|
| And then you'll get arrested.
| anamexis wrote:
| It's infrared, not bluetooth.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| I'm pretty sure it has both infrared and Bluetooth.
|
| But if it really is _only_ IR, then this is doubly
| pointless because I 'd like to see someone come to the
| stadium with a massive IR spotlight that no one noticed.
| mmmmmbop wrote:
| You could definitely ruin a concert by projecting
| offensive symbols or messages. Especially since if it's
| done well, most concertgoers would initially assume that
| it's part of the show.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| But to actually create patterns you'd need a huge IR
| spotlight!
| WWLink wrote:
| We've found the cybersecurity enthusiast that ruins
| everything.
| caminante wrote:
| That was some entertainment arbitrage.
|
| A friend told me Swift tickets + flights to PT were cheaper
| than local US tickets...and you get Lisbon!
| jaygreco wrote:
| Very cool! I've been to a few shows with these and was pretty
| enthralled with the level of effects that are possible given the
| Simplicity of the setup. I brought one wristband home hoping to
| mess with it but never got around to it.
| geor9e wrote:
| Here's a video of the high powered invisible IR searchlights
| projecting the colors onto the crowd (looks like its triggering
| the RAINBOW_MOTION fade from the github link pixmob_special.ir)
| https://www.tiktok.com/@micahstgeorge2/video/723551076132861...
| dogben wrote:
| Is high power IR lamp safe for eyes?
| jpalawaga wrote:
| you mean like the sun?
| nvy wrote:
| The sun is decidedly unsafe for eyes.
| retrac wrote:
| The sun also emits in the visible wavelengths. Your eyes do
| not feel pain from bright lights due to the heat or similar.
| It's a response to brightness, in the visible spectrum.
| Without the visible component, there's no pain. With unhappy
| optical circumstances it could cook the retina because the
| pupil is dilated and there's no instinctive response to look
| away. Not sure how plausible those circumstances are. But I
| sure wouldn't put a 10 watt IR LED source right up to my
| eyeball.
| EarthLaunch wrote:
| I looked into that for VR headset eye tracking, which uses IR
| lights plus cameras to see the eyes inside the dark headset.
|
| Here someone did some calculations [0].
|
| > The International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation
| Protection's Guidelines of limits of exposure to broad-band
| incoherent optical radiation (0.38 to 3 um)[1] states:
|
| > "To avoid thermal injury of the cornea and possible delayed
| effects on the lens of the eye (cataractogenesis), infrared
| radiation (780nm < > l < > 3mm) should be limited to 100 W m-2
| (10 mW cm-2) for lengthy exposures (> 1000 s)"
|
| 0:
| https://docs.eyetrackvr.dev/getting_started/led_safety#about...
|
| 1 (pdf):
| https://docs.eyetrackvr.dev/safety/ICNIRP_optical_radiation....
| dogben wrote:
| Thanks. So that 30W lamp in another comment might be a safty
| hazzard if someone in close range stares at it and the beam
| is tightly focused.
| darkwater wrote:
| The beam is not going to be tightly focused, if it needs to
| cover a big chunk of a stadium at once
| numpad0 wrote:
| I guess this device can be modified to take visible red
| lights with some redesign, if you'll be really concerned
| with that.
| input_sh wrote:
| When it's very narrowly concentrated on your eyes for an extend
| period of time from a short distance, maybe not.
|
| When it's beamed widely in your general direction from a larger
| distance, you'll be fine.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| This has big https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-do-i-shot-web
| energy
| numpad0 wrote:
| - IR is just super red light. It's not significantly more
| dangerous as looking at a lightbulb can be, except human eyes
| cannot perceive IR and can't contract pupils or stare away by
| reflexes.
|
| - UV is baby step towards X-rays. It's technically super blue
| light, but it's entering region where lights start splitting
| chemical bonds and bleaching stuffs like pathogens and human
| eyes.
|
| - LASER is perfectly parallel beams of light. Because it's
| perfectly parallel and do not diverge, it behaves like sun
| under magnifying glass at all points in its path, which can be
| dangerous when the "sun" is high and "glass" focusing it tight.
|
| High power _IR lamp_ illuminating audiences from afar is almost
| safe as any searchlights. _IR lasers_ can be dangerous. _UV
| lamps_ are not so safe, _UV lasers_ would be bad.
| delfinom wrote:
| IR isn't just super red light, it's heat. Lol
| squarefoot wrote:
| Back in the day smartphones with GPS became widespread, I had a
| more convoluted but much cheaper idea that involved no external
| hardware: an app that would register to a database with seat
| position, then refine it using GPS (in case someone is changing
| seat or wandering around), then it would have been just a matter
| of keeping the phone in sight using a phone necklace: the app
| would download its sequence to be played (each screen would
| essentially act as a big RGB pixel) then synchronize the pattern
| against NTP+GPS precise timing, then wait for the right moment to
| play it. Phone in closed spaces could not have used GPS, so they
| would rely on seat registration, although I was exploring the
| idea to use Bluetooth or ad-hoc WiFi links to synchronize with
| nearby devices to detect movement (that is, if I have say 5
| devices very close, their seats match while mine doesn't, very
| likely I'm the one who moved elsewhere and my phone would update
| position accordingly). Probably too complicated to gain success,
| but I didn't even try to develop it beyond the simple idea;
| laziness and other problems sucked me away from any creative
| work.
| taylorfinley wrote:
| Don't want to ask you your name or location to preserve
| privacy, but do you happen to live near what used to be a
| really cool coffee shop, and do you have an awesome garage with
| a plasma cutter? If so I think you told me about this project a
| decade ago while we built a little backyard forge!
| squarefoot wrote:
| Central Italy here, and no, unfortunately I never lived near
| a cool coffee shop and I never had a garage with a plasma
| cutter, but talked about the idea to some friends roughly in
| 2011 so it is possible that the word traveled around.
| taylorfinley wrote:
| My buddy was working on exactly the same project around
| then in Austin tx. He was trying to make it as a web app
| with access to location permissions, where the page's
| background color would change for each individual pixel in
| the virtual display. Concertgoers would visit the url and
| their phone would become a pixel in the screen. He was
| trying to figure out how to get better location resolution
| when we talked about it, sounds like you guys had similar
| ideas and both discovered the implementation was trickier
| than it initially seemed it would be. I wonder how many
| other folks worked on that idea around that time?
| zzzeek wrote:
| We spent a week in Disney World last month where we used Disney
| Magic Bands. I thought they were a total blast, they serve as
| your room key, ride / park passes, then they are lighting up and
| buzzing all over the park when interactive things are nearby.
| During fireworks shows they add their own light show based on
| your proximity to the event.
|
| Sure, they are also tracking our every step throughout the park
| but this felt like a good thing, like if our 9 year old got lost,
| his band would totally identify who he's supposed to be with and
| where we are.
| Animats wrote:
| Can they apply an electric shock to the user if they do
| something Disney doesn't like?
| FridgeSeal wrote:
| Conversations about DRM and Copyright will shock the user
| into submission until the Mouse's elite lawyer-hitmen can
| arrive to beat you before suing you into the ground.
| glitchc wrote:
| Apparently punching Mickey doesn't count [1].
|
| [1] https://insidethemagic.net/2023/03/world-renowned-
| tiktoker-d...
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| I want the old internet back, not whatever this is supposed
| to be.
| adolph wrote:
| Something conceptually similar exists: _Shock Clock - The
| Ultimate Silent Alarm for Heavy Sleepers, Hard of Hearing,
| Couples, and Shift Workers - Wake Up on Time, Create Better
| Habits_
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EZ77IOY
|
| I've been able to train myself to wake with a much less
| expensive simple vibrating wristband.
| barbazoo wrote:
| What happens after the vacation, do they reuse them or do they
| go in the trash?
| zzzeek wrote:
| Pretty sure we can use them for our next trip. They aren't
| like cheap, we had to buy them for like 30 bucks each or
| something
| codazoda wrote:
| You keep them for the next trip to Disneyland or a Disney
| Cruise or share them with friends who are doing the same.
|
| I only charge mine about four times a year, so I doubt the
| batteries will last too long, but I've been surprised so far.
|
| Note that they have at least two models and they haven't
| always interchangeable, so check before you go.
| fortran77 wrote:
| Disney patented a very similar system in 2002 (it may be expired
| now). These were the "Magical Moments" pins, hats, wands, etc,
| that were sold in the parks. Controlled by IR transmitters.
|
| (I worked on this project and still have the transmitters in my
| office)
|
| https://patents.google.com/patent/US7564426B2/
| codazoda wrote:
| That's interesting, I've never noticed them used. Do they still
| do this? I'm aware of the bands but I never noticed the magic
| moments stuff.
| codetrotter wrote:
| Nice write up!
|
| I would also add that OP should spell out the text from the
| circuit board in their blog post, so that people who pick one
| apart and Google the text can also find this blog post.
| Pixmob PALM V2.6r1
|
| And even the date stamp (c) 20230629
|
| and also the part that says Designed with
| (love) in Montreal
| I_o_IllI__o_I wrote:
| That's smart bro, thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure OP will
| appreciate it. Will those sort of simple changes even be able
| to make much of a difference compared to those heavily SEO
| optimised blogspam sites though?
| doctorhandshake wrote:
| This effect is really cool but I can't help but think of the huge
| piles of e-waste it must produce after every show as these
| wristbands go in the bin.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| Pretty sure they have specific collection bins. Many keep them
| as a memento of the experience though.
| mrighele wrote:
| Is there anything similar that can be bought as a consumer, for
| example the Bluetooth one that they mention in the video ? This
| gave me a few ideas that could be fun at the kid's parties.
|
| Seems something not hard to do with wireless-enabled
| microcontroller and leds, but I don't trust myself to do
| something safe in the hands of a kid.
| zw123456 wrote:
| Who is this Taylor Swift Person?
| pbj1968 wrote:
| Pretty neat how those work but those Korean ones look way better.
| herunan wrote:
| In the video, the CEO of Pixmob seems like a nice, humble guy:
| "the wristbands are really stupid, but we like it that way."
| Rossimac wrote:
| I took mine apart mid-show to figure out how it's doing it's
| thing. Brilliantly applied tech, but I couldn't help but think of
| the e-waste from those fans who don't cherish something like this
| enough to keep as a memento.
|
| Edit: seeing others commenting on sustainability and pointing
| towards their website. Fair enough. Good experience had and it's
| not the worst.
|
| https://pixmob.com/sustainability
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(page generated 2024-05-27 23:00 UTC)