[HN Gopher] Low-cost shield ardEEG to measure EEG with Arduino U...
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       Low-cost shield ardEEG to measure EEG with Arduino Uno R4 WiFi
        
       Author : ron_87
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2024-05-24 12:00 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.preprints.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.preprints.org)
        
       | jdblair wrote:
       | GitHub repo: https://github.com/Ildaron/ardEEG
       | 
       | Available for purchase: https://pieeg.com/ardeeg/
        
         | logtempo wrote:
         | Thanks, I was wondering how much low-cost is low-cost.
         | 
         | For comparison:
         | 
         | - 240$: https://duino4projects.com/open-source-multi-channel-
         | eegecge...
         | 
         | - 500$ https://www.crowdsupply.com/starcat/hackeeg
         | 
         | - 1K$ https://shop.openbci.com/products/cyton-biosensing-
         | board-8-c...
        
           | neurotech1 wrote:
           | This is going back a few years, but we used on our systems,
           | AD620 In-Amp (Instrumentation Op-Amp) front-end IC, and a PIC
           | 16F series micro, some filtering in between, for 2 channels.
           | Even today, I think one could get to 2 or 4 channels with wet
           | saline solution, with a low BOM (Board-of-Materials) cost.
           | 
           | I used to repair EEG systems, and work as an EEG tech.
        
           | myth_drannon wrote:
           | - 160$ BiTalino https://www.pluxbiosignals.com/collections/bi
           | talino/products...
        
             | ron_87 wrote:
             | looks interesting
        
           | ron_87 wrote:
           | ardEEG cost 240$ https://pieeg.com/ardeeg/ also need take in
           | mind amount of measurement channels
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | $239: The entire TI evaluation kit for the ADS1299 chip used
           | in these projects:
           | https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-
           | instruments...
           | 
           | The above kit can be connected to an Arduino, of course. Or a
           | Raspberry Pi, or your computer via the included USB board, or
           | any other device you have in mind. You don't need to buy a
           | specific board for your target device as long as you can
           | connect the interface pins together.
           | 
           | I strongly recommend that anyone looking to use an ADS1299
           | EEG simply purchase the EVM from TI and use that instead.
           | It's professionally designed and tested by the company that
           | made the chip, and it's the same price or cheaper as these
           | alternate boards.
        
       | resource_waste wrote:
       | I'm really excited for Latin America to develop their medical
       | industry.
       | 
       | They don't have the legacy of corruption that US medical has.
       | This means they are open to new techniques, have lower barriers
       | to care, and ofc lower cost.
       | 
       | Given how many times US doctors are incorrect and are treated
       | with multi-thousand dollar procedures... I have a fantasy of
       | visiting multiple Latin American doctors, giving them my test
       | results, and seeing what they think.
       | 
       | Or maybe AI will solve this entirely, and I only need to go to
       | Latin America for things like surgery or pharma.
       | 
       | Whatever the case, I'm entirely over US Physicians as far as I
       | can help it. The arrogance yet high misdiagnosis rate has pushed
       | me into the Realist camp. There is no magic in US medical, just
       | lots of money.
       | 
       | Why on earth Medical is structured to have a single point of
       | failure(The lone doctor), is mind boggling. In Engineering, we
       | have a manager, a senior manager, a director, a plant manager,
       | and program manager all that need to approve something that isnt
       | even life threatening.
       | 
       | Better hope your 1 doctor, who's a C student, legacy grad, got it
       | right!
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | You'll see the magic when you have cancer and they miraculously
         | pull out 50% odds of survival for something terminal everywhere
         | else.
        
           | resource_waste wrote:
           | In the US if a doctor says that, you deal with it.
           | 
           | With multiple doctors, you are going to hear multiple
           | opinions.
           | 
           | Your situation isnt factual or realistic. It is a dirty
           | underhanded remark.
        
         | mateus1 wrote:
         | There's a famous quote by a Brazilian far right-wing pundit:
         | "In Cuba there are only 3 things that work: security, education
         | and health"
        
       | fellerts wrote:
       | Would like to see the schematic and layout of the frontend board
       | and a discussion on different design choices and tradeoffs. I
       | designed something similar years ago (for Electrooculography, but
       | it's the same principle) and getting a clean signal was by far
       | the most challenging and interesting part of the project [0].
       | 
       | I'm not familiar enough with EEG to know whether the author's
       | results are good enough to use it as a BCI, but it seems like
       | they got it to work (with dry electrodes nonetheless). That's a
       | win!
       | 
       | https://fellerts.no/projects/eog.php
        
         | ron_87 wrote:
         | wow your projects lools cool!
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | The Github repo says they're using the ADS1299, which is
         | basically an all-in-one solution from TI for biopotential
         | measurements. It's pretty popular, with lots of other examples
         | to reference.
         | 
         | I'd assume they used the standard 5k series resistor/4.7nF
         | filter capacitor arrangement the device recommends.
        
       | ron_87 wrote:
       | video how it works
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_5mDDUFp6E&t=6s
        
       | jbandela1 wrote:
       | Reminder to consider shielding and stray signals when
       | interpreting an EEG.
       | 
       | You can get an EEG trace from a blob of Jello:
       | 
       | https://www.nytimes.com/1976/03/06/archives/jello-test-finds...
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | In a similar vein--or a whole vascular system--getting fMRI
         | results from a dead fish.
         | 
         | https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/scicurious-brain/ign...
        
       | bogtog wrote:
       | What is the market for these low-cost EEG devices? I've come
       | across way more companies offering this than I'd expect. I assume
       | all labs at R1 or R2 Universities use equipment from bigger
       | manufacturers, which I think run over $10k for a full EEG setup
       | (no cage).
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | This isn't a medical-grade EEG device at all. This is a hobby-
         | level PCB to connect the ADS1299 chip to an Arduino. This isn't
         | at the level of something you'd use for actual research or
         | patients.
         | 
         | I think the market is people who want to experiment with EEG,
         | but those people would be better served purchasing the ADS1299
         | evaluation kit from Texas Instruments (which is,
         | coincidentally, the same price as this Arduino shield).
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | I love seeing fun projects like this, but from what I can see in
       | photos and the GitHub profile I think this would be more
       | appropriate as an open-source hobby project than a $240
       | commercial product without schematics available.
       | 
       | The board is a minimal implementation of the ADS1299 chip, which
       | is a highly integrated part for EEG measurements. The chip can be
       | purchased for $50 or less in single quantities and your average
       | electronics hobbyist could put together a basic Arduino Shield
       | PCB around it in a weekend. It's a great chip. However, dealing
       | with all of the complexities of low-level measurements is
       | challenging. Getting good, clean signals and managing
       | interference is a complex topic.
       | 
       | The GitHub repo has a lot of empty 'readme.txt' files and scraps
       | of Python scripts, but the manual and documentation are both
       | empty.
       | 
       | If anyone wants to play with this EEG chip, you can buy the
       | entire professionally-designed evaluation board with a companion
       | USB motherboard for $240 (the price of this Arduino shield):
       | https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments...
       | 
       | It can be wired to an Arduino if you like and it has every
       | possible function of the EEG chip exposed. It also has a much
       | more robust layout and more flexible connections. Getting good
       | measurements of low voltage signals with a 24-bit ADC is
       | complicated, so it's important to have a well designed, tested,
       | and documented solution to use.
        
         | ron_87 wrote:
         | I like your comment and partially agree and if you have
         | experience and time TI board is great for you
         | 
         | I was wondering what you vision about openbci board with the
         | cost $1,003 USD ?
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-24 23:01 UTC)