[HN Gopher] Daylight Computer - New 60fps e-paper tablet
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Daylight Computer - New 60fps e-paper tablet
Author : asadm
Score : 415 points
Date : 2024-05-23 16:38 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (daylightcomputer.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (daylightcomputer.com)
| asadm wrote:
| Can somebody figure out display part# this uses?
| Projectiboga wrote:
| Display is custom made for them, it is not a part. Only way to
| buy is as offered.
| spaceisballer wrote:
| It's funny that Tech is the source of and solution to all of our
| problems. But my real critique is that all portable devices these
| days are around $1000 dollars. I'm sure this display makes the
| device expensive, why can't we just have a more humane workflow
| in our current devices instead of buying a new device?
| normalaccess wrote:
| For some, e-ink displays are the holy grail of tech. I have
| several e-ink devices but the real hangup is the refresh rate.
| If this solves that problem in a meaningful way it could be
| game changing.
| jll29 wrote:
| I agree, refresh rate is an issue that is more important than
| energy usage, colors or life time (apparently e-ink dies
| quicker when viewing videos).
|
| I'm just experimenting with a USB-based external e-ink
| display to see if it is capable of reading/writing/editing
| technical documents (started last week), using a device with
| a 50% more affordable price point. My first impression was I
| needed to increase the font size to be able to work. Let's
| see how it goes.
| rchaud wrote:
| Video forces e-ink screens to redraw the scene 30 times per
| second. For static text like an ebook, the display
| redrawing the scene far less frequently, maybe once every
| 30 seconds, if that's how long it takes to read a page of
| text.
| rchaud wrote:
| Images look terrible on e-ink, so that's an issue as well.
| cush wrote:
| Some are comparing their display tech to Pebble, which was so
| threatening to the growing smartwatch market that Fitbit
| purchased the company and (for reasons I don't know) took all
| their IP and shelved it. I wonder if Daylight will be able to
| keep their mission when Amazon comes knocking
| keane wrote:
| Happily they're a public benefit corporation
| cush wrote:
| The most expensive part of a device is the display. This is a
| bleeding-edge, first -generation, low-production-run display on
| top of an Android tablet. If it does what the demos show, it's
| the device I've been waiting a decade for and is totally worth
| $800, to me. Also, the price includes a Wacom pen. Hopefully
| they can get the costs down, but the price seems completely
| fair.
| normalaccess wrote:
| Ohh my, on first blush this looks great.
| sparrish wrote:
| Android 13 with 8GB RAM. I'm not familiar with the MediaTek Helio
| G99 CPU.
|
| Will this perform well or just be another underpowered tablet for
| $800?
| 15155 wrote:
| I haven't been impressed by any Mediatek part to date.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| This Xiaomi tablet uses the same chip as us
|
| It's pretty decent performance, and what makes it special is
| how good battery life is
|
| Check the notebook check review
|
| https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Redmi-Pad-review-
| Afford...
| sparrish wrote:
| Who's "us"? Are you affiliated with Daylight Computer?
| jv95 wrote:
| Based on their other post in this thread they're the
| founder of daylight computer.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Its the founder.
| dtx1 wrote:
| > 2x Arm Cortex-A76 up to 2.2GHz > 6x Arm Cortex-A55 up to
| 2.0GHz > LPDDR4X > Arm Mali-G57 MC2
|
| Not great, not terrible. I'd say lower middle class phone,
| roughly equivalent to the Snapdragon 680. The real question is
| longterm software and security support. I'd bet good money this
| will se one android update and security patches late or never
| at best.
| xnx wrote:
| They've said the bootloader is unlocked so it should never be
| totally obsolete.
| bottom999mottob wrote:
| At this price point, I'd much rather have an portable e-paper
| external display at a cheaper price. Seems quite underpowered
| floundy wrote:
| Indeed! A Waveshare portable e-ink monitor is $499.99 for the
| 10.3" size, almost identical to the Daylight's 10.5" display.
| The external display would also outlast this tablet device
| for sure.
|
| And if I'm reading the MediaTek Helio G99 specs correctly, it
| seems to have similar raw performance to a Raspberry Pi 5.
| One could easily put together a little "productivity PC"
| using a Pi (or a Windows mini PC), a power bank, and have the
| added benefit of full-fledged desktop apps rather than
| Android versions of them.
|
| I wanted to want to impulse buy this thing. But the above
| analysis, as well as the lack of any real hands-on 3rd party
| video-based reviews will be a no from me.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| if you make something comparable for $729, i will buy it
| from you x 10
|
| not kidding
|
| its hard to get things made at low batch sizes with good
| economics!
|
| (third party video based reviews coming in the weeks ahead!
| youtubers hopefully will actually reply to us now after the
| attention of this launch)
|
| PS this review does a good job of describing the perf /
| tradeoffs of the G99 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-
| Redmi-Pad-review-Afford...
|
| we're gadget nerds, its not as bad as you think :)
|
| in fact, no early users have complained about performance
| at all, either to us or on twitter
|
| we're open to feedback on how to improve the next gen! all
| we ask is to judge based on actual performance on intended
| workloads and not specs nor crysis lol
| xnx wrote:
| I hope MKBHD does a review of it.
| nathcd wrote:
| Looks nice! I think I'd only get it if I could use it as a
| monitor though. Displaying more than grayscale colors would be a
| plus too. Still glad to see it though.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| we aim to build a monitor, but hardware companies arent very
| hot for VCs, so cash flow from selling the tablet is the
| primary way we are going to fund building a monitor, phone, and
| laptop
| cush wrote:
| So good to hear! This seems like it would be right up the
| alley for a company like Nothing Phone
| NBJack wrote:
| Oof. I hope the tablet is better than the website. I think I need
| to switch to a device with a dedicated GPU to see it right. My
| laptop is struggling, and it's running a 12th gen i5. They seem
| to be using a video provider that can't keep up either.
|
| Still, the tablet looks exciting, especially since it's based on
| Android. I'm curious as to how they overcame the refresh rate
| issue that plagues so many similar displays.
| normalaccess wrote:
| It's a transflective display. Although not E-Ink it may solve
| many of the same problems while having a reasonable refresh
| rate and less burn in.
|
| Comment from Daylight_Co
| https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17...
| knowaveragejoe wrote:
| It's strange, on an M2 with chrome I often struggle with
| websites like this. but this one is seamless for me.
| Cyberdog wrote:
| Agreed. I don't have faith they can make a usable device if
| they can't make a usable web page.
|
| Never break, take over, or "fix" scrolling! Never!
| tedunangst wrote:
| I wonder how well the tablet renders its own homepage.
| andrewcchen wrote:
| It's not an e-ink display, but rather a monochrome
| transreflective lcd. [1]
|
| [1]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17...
| normalaccess wrote:
| Hmmm, a little disappointed but I'm I still very interested. My
| favorite smart watch was a pebble and they used a transflective
| display, I loved it. If this is more of the same but refined
| and bigger count me in.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| It is a Godzilla pebble watch
|
| I hope you will be pleased
| modeless wrote:
| I hope you don't meet the same fate as Pebble. Maybe you
| can do a watch next?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| need more feedback on what the use case / killer apps to
| nail of a 'pebble watch returns' would be
| modeless wrote:
| Week+ battery life, truly always on, sunlight readable,
| much smaller size/thickness and thus more comfortable
| than all other smart watches.
|
| For me, the use case of a smartwatch is notifications. It
| lets me keep my phone on silent all the time without
| missing important messages or calls. Proper filtering is
| important so you don't get notification spam on your
| wrist but some notifications truly are important and
| checking them without taking out my phone, and even
| sending a quick reply, is awesome. I also use the "extend
| unlock" feature of Android which works with any Bluetooth
| device but especially well with one that is always on
| your wrist. Locating a lost phone is another great
| feature. Timers and alarms are a given of course. Maps
| navigation directions on your wrist can also be useful
| (but you get this for free with a proper implementation
| of notifications).
|
| To me the paradox of the wearables market is that it
| seems like the only reason people buy them is as fitness
| trackers which they are actually pretty bad at. The
| numbers they report might as well be made up in many
| cases, and the weird metrics they provide aren't useful.
| The sensors make the watch thicker and less comfortable
| too. Meanwhile, it's actually super useful to have phone
| notifications on your wrist, but people don't seem
| interested, and e.g. Android Wear really sucks at it.
| (Can't speak for the Apple Watch as I don't have an
| iPhone, but I've always felt that the hardware design was
| ugly.)
| blamestross wrote:
| I'm totally ok with that and actual communications from the
| company are very clear about what it is. Looks like this is out
| of their control.
| cal85 wrote:
| I don't see the word transflective anywhere on that Reddit
| post, and don't really know what it means. Where did you get
| that info, or is it obvious from looking at it?
| dang wrote:
| Thanks--we've changed the title from "Daylight: 60fps E-ink
| Tablet" now.
| imiric wrote:
| Thank you.
|
| I still think that calling it e-paper is disingenuous. My
| initial impression was that this was some e-ink breakthrough,
| but it's really just a backlit monochrome LCD. I'm not sure how
| they can claim that it's "non-emissive", when it literally uses
| a backlight. An LCD with an amber filter doesn't come close to
| the readability of e-ink, so I'm not sure what advancements
| they've made to make it feel like "magic" or "paper-like".
| Shelling out $729 to find out how it looks in person, based on
| a slick marketing site and positive comments from "beta
| testers", is a hard ask.
| rchaud wrote:
| the site loads OK, but keeps crashing when I scroll to the
| "animated text on scroll" section . I'm on Brave Android on a
| phone with 12GB RAM.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| should be fixed now, does it work for you? thanks for helping
| report a bug
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| Hi yall, founder of Daylight here.
|
| Happy to answer any questions you have. Long time lurker, so this
| is pretty cool to finally take part :)
|
| I made this because I wanted the eye-strain free and minimalist
| qualities of my kindle/Eink applied to so much more of what I do
| on a computer.
|
| Lack of speed and ghosting felt like it made traditional Eink
| impossible to do most computing tasks. So we focused on making
| the most Paperlike epaper display that has no ghosting and high
| refresh rate - 60 to 120fps. We started working on this in 2018.
|
| We developed our own custom epaper display tech we call
| LivePaper. We focused on solving the tradeoffs RLCDs
| traditionally have - around reflectance %, metallic-look / not
| Paperlike enough, viewing angle, white state, rainbow mura,
| parallax, resolution, size, lack of quality backlight, etc.
|
| First proof of concept in late 2021, and then it took us 2.5
| years to get it into production.
|
| And we built a whole android tablet around it.
|
| It's essentially our attempt at making a remarkable tablet on
| steroids / kindle on steroids. Definitely some trade offs, but on
| the whole we think it's worth it. (& on twitter a bunch of early
| customers seem to think so too)
|
| Note: it's 60fps epaper, not off the shelf Eink. We spent years
| developing what we think is the best epaper display in the world
| and it's exclusively manufactured by our display factory in
| Japan.
|
| There's still many cases where traditional Eink is going to be
| better (bistability, viewing angle, white state color, etc), but
| we feel for more general purpose computers you can code on and do
| google docs on and do fast multitouch amongst a thousand other
| things, the speed and lack of ghosting totally makes it worth it.
|
| Think of it as a Godzilla sized pebble watch with a decade of
| improvement
|
| Or think of it as a gameboy advanced, advanced
| achow wrote:
| It does look great.
|
| Any plans of supplying the ePaper display to OEM's like Amazon,
| Remarkable, etc.?
| dcan wrote:
| Any plans to sell just the display?
| cush wrote:
| It's interesting that Anjan compared the display tech to
| Pebble, because selling off the company instead of just the
| IP is where Pebble completely failed consumers. Pebble had
| something incredibly special, and then Fitbit bought Pebble
| and (for reasons I don't know) immediately killed all their
| projects and shelved all their tech. In a different reality,
| Anjan would have said, "Think of it as a Godzilla sized
| Fitbit watch with a decade of improvement". Selling just the
| screens seems like the obvious play here
| jsheard wrote:
| The Pebbles display wasn't Pebbles own tech, they used off-
| the-shelf MIP LCDs from Sharp. You can still buy them and
| they're still used in more utilitarian wearables, e.g. from
| Garmin, and in the Playdate.
|
| Sharp doesn't make anything tablet-sized though, so that's
| not what OP is using.
| utopcell wrote:
| They do have 5" and 31.5" reflective displays though,
| they call them Reflective IGZO Displays.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider if you're interested in
| DIY see here
| aresant wrote:
| Instantly bought this to support your mission
|
| A "calm" computer interface is such a welcome idea and quality
| pursuit
|
| Participating in the good of the digital world - information
| access, communication, creativity
|
| While mitigating the bad - always on notifications, bio-hostile
| blue light interface, doom scrolling etc
|
| I hope that this V1 release of your philosophy is successful
| enough to keep building
|
| To that end what are your long term goals / plans?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| holy moly dude you are articulating our value prop and
| philosophy even better than we can
|
| glad to be on the same team!
|
| long term goals/plans
|
| - make a whole ecosystem of healthier, distraction free
| computers.. phones, laptops, monitors, workstations, watches,
| PDAs, epaper whiteboards, etc - make awesome software that we
| can offer as public goods, funded by cash flow from hardware
| and memberships etc - make 'magical analogue objects' like
| actually good sunrise alarm clocks, time timers, calendars,
| habit trackers, better phillip hues, etc
| xnx wrote:
| Wow. Great looking device and great long term
| vision/mission. As someone who hacked an old Kindle to make
| a persistent weather display, I am wholly in support of
| what you're working on.
| ddingus wrote:
| Fantastic! I am definitely going to follow you and team
| with great interest!
|
| These ideas are SO needed right now.
| dtx1 wrote:
| So this is an advanced form of reflective LCD? Interesting. LTT
| recently tested a color display like that too[0].
|
| A few Questions: Why is it black and white? Does the Image stay
| the same when the device is off? What is the surface like for
| the Pen? Is the Display recessed so there's parallax between
| pen and Display or is it laminated like an iPad? How is the
| repairability? Can the battery be replaced easily? How is
| software support going to be? Since I'm supposed to link all
| kinds of cloud accounts to it, I would not buy this without a
| statement regarding security updates and support lifetime.
|
| Looks cool though! [0]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0TcGjzKbag
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| 1) black & white because bayer color filter will cut your
| brightness by 66%
|
| 2) alas we gave up bistability for speed, so the image
| doesn't stay when you turn it off (however, we maybe can do
| quasi-bistability with this tech for watch or kindle sized
| future devices)
|
| 3) the pen writing feel is similar to my favorite japanese
| paper campus kokoyu. you could argue comparable to a
| remarkable or maybe even better for some
|
| 4)its all laminated / optically bonded
|
| 5) we can improve on repairability, its fine, but nothing
| stand out. we have big plans in the future here though
|
| 6) we're aiming to build the business on customer trust so we
| better be good at software updates! android is hard though,
| so its definitely a learning curve and requires a lot of
| resources
|
| 7) we'll do better to earn your trust around using our
| accounts - lots of plans in the coming months and years to be
| the best privacy + security + sovereignty computers!
| kiliantorpey wrote:
| Some more questions about software support. It seems the
| device is using android. Do you have any plan to support
| mainline linux kernel? It could allow the possibility to
| use native linux distro like PostmarketOS
| (https://postmarketos.org/) for device longevity. Your team
| could also benefit from delegating some softare support
| effort to linux kernel team.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| we're open to it! we just need to better understand what
| resources we need internally to support this effort and
| for the specific mediatek/qualcomm chips we're looking at
| sp0rk wrote:
| I think the average person (myself included) does not know
| that something can be considered ePaper without being
| bistable. The two are married in my head because all of the
| ePaper devices that I've been exposed to thus far have been
| bistable. If I were you, I would find a clever way to
| communicate this fact without making it sound like too much
| of a drawback.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| 7) hits home for me. This is already buy worthy.
| bestouff wrote:
| Will I be able to install LineageOS on this - as I do on all of
| my devices ?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| yes! we're going to come out with a bootloader unlock tool as
| well so you can do whatever you want
|
| our goal is to be DIY friendly, so we included things i've
| always wanted in a tablet like:
|
| - microSD card expandable - pogo pins for custom accessories
| (ie cyber deck FTW) - 2 extra physical buttons you can custom
| map
| bestouff wrote:
| Oooh nice ! You have one more customer
| up6w6 wrote:
| > Lack of speed and ghosting felt like it made traditional Eink
| impossible to do most computing tasks. So we focused on making
| the most Paperlike epaper display that has no ghosting and high
| refresh rate - 60 to 120fps. We started working on this in
| 2018.
|
| The website mentions 60hz, will it also support 120hz?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| we're trying to underpromise and overdeliver, and our display
| can now do 60 - 120 fps, but believe it or not, our PDF
| renderer and software can't match that yet.
|
| So we're waiting till we can holistically do 120fps before
| announcing that.
|
| But if you do frame rate tests, you'll see its 120fps
|
| (for the nerds out there, its 6hz-120hz variable refresh rate
| IGZO)
| aidenn0 wrote:
| While we are talking "LCD" and "In direct sunlight" and
| "display is close to surface" were you able to fit circular
| polarizers in there, or will I need to take my sunglasses
| off when using?
| cush wrote:
| I'm so rooting for you! Got in on Batch 2
|
| When can we expect our favourite tech vloggers to share their
| thoughts on review units?
| stevenschmatz wrote:
| Huge congrats! I've been dreaming of something like this for a
| while - instant pre-order!
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| your support means everything! thank you!
|
| i wish people could understand how hard it is to survive low
| volume novel consumer electronics.. not meant to solicit
| pity, but to appreciate why we're all just stuck with big
| tech after indie company after indie company fail
| amne wrote:
| make a display for framework laptop. please
| xupybd wrote:
| Your prices are impressive for low volume.
|
| I hope things go well for you. These are the kinds of
| devices I want to become mainstream.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Why no LTE?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| $$$
|
| certifications for mobile/modems are _expensive_
|
| our future gens will have it once/if we have the resources
| russdill wrote:
| The space of android tablets with LTE is frustratingly
| small.
| causality0 wrote:
| It would be cool if we could cast our phone screens to it. That
| way we wouldn't have to deal with file and app synchronization,
| cellular tethering, or any of the other friction points of
| using multiple devices.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| its a good idea, know any good firmware / encoding engineers
| who could help us build really good casting?
| chrisoconnell wrote:
| Let's chat. I'd love to connect and see if we can make this
| happen.
| xnx wrote:
| I think this might be possible out of the box with Android
| apps like ScreenStream: https://play.google.com/store/apps/de
| tails?id=info.dvkr.scre...
| yencabulator wrote:
| That seems to go in the other direction, show Android
| screen on browser.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Looks great, albeit a high price point. Why not a newer
| Android?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| just small dev team, updating to new android and porting over
| all your changes is a tremendous amount of work believe it or
| not
|
| if launch goes well, the team's gonna get a lot bigger and
| you can expect us being able to do much more on the
| AOSP/android side
| azinman2 wrote:
| I did order one, but what happens if you go out of
| business? What risk do I then have?
|
| I assume this supports the play store, right?
| 7thaccount wrote:
| Is there a video of someone playing Doom?
| kennethrc wrote:
| ... or Crysis
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| What if I want this display tech but just as a monitor to use
| with my existing setup for doing engineering work? (E.g. emacs,
| tiling window manager, etc.)
|
| The device as it's presented looks like a consumption device
| ("tablet" etc), but tech like this seems like it'd be most
| useful for a _production_ device (general purpose computing
| device, programming /development tools).
|
| I'd like the display, but uncoupled from the lifestyle
| assumptions that come with a consumer lifestyle tablet
| accessory...
| msephton wrote:
| Keep an eye on the market for RLCD monitors. I read Hanspree
| are releasing one ~Sept.
| xnx wrote:
| There are a few techniques for using an Android device as a
| second monitor. I assume those would also work for the
| Daylight Computer.
| tapia wrote:
| This looks very exiting! I am a long-time Sony DPT/Fujitsu
| Quaderno user and love these kind of devices. My question would
| be whether you have plans in the future to make a 13.3"
| version. The 10" versions are just too small for my use (mostly
| reading scientific papers).
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| yes we do! ipad mini and 13.Xin versions are kawaii af
| tapia wrote:
| Great to hear that! I'll be looking forward to it.
| stefanha wrote:
| I have a hard time getting a sense of what the display is
| really like from the website and the embedded video (it cuts
| too quickly, uses depth of field shots of the tablet, etc).
|
| Given that this is all about a new display, it would be nice to
| show a more pragmatic demo video right upfront. A demo that
| gives a clear look at how the display behaves with respect to
| lighting, reflections, animation, touch screen, etc. That's
| what I would look for when deciding to buy this.
|
| Maybe YouTube reviewers will end up providing this
| information...
| floundy wrote:
| The lack of any 3rd party hands-on video reviews was the
| biggest red flag that halted any consideration I had to
| purchase this product.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| they're coming!! but i appreciate your skepticism until
| there's more video proof, i am the same
|
| too many broken promises by other tech cos, i understand we
| have to earn your trust
|
| there should be more video reviews coming out on twitter
| though from early customers / testers
|
| .. if i wasnt drowning in launch, id try to find you a
| link, if anyone else could help !
| typon wrote:
| Looking forward to the MKBHD review
| mikhailt wrote:
| You can see the videos here:
| https://daylightco.gorgias.help/en-US#article-509983
| smusamashah wrote:
| Wrong link?
| Chilko wrote:
| If you click on "Get to Know the Daylight Computer"
| section it has some videos.
| mastazi wrote:
| This should be the right link
|
| https://daylightco.gorgias.help/en-US#article-493382
|
| (points to the section where you can see videos)
| stefanha wrote:
| Thank you! This quick overview is helpful:
| https://player.vimeo.com/video/922512661
| HenryBemis wrote:
| It looks like the speed of the video is at 1.25 or
| something like that. The hand/finger moves kinda un-
| naturally. Is it just me?
|
| Either way, it looks great. I do watch some YT vids, but
| I focus on the audio (i.e. watching some urgent news on
| Sky News (live) - video detail is not as important when
| something very bad has happened).
| qq66 wrote:
| I've tried it and it's extraordinary. Is it worth it, at this
| price, to you? That's something only you can answer. But it's
| unlike anything you've ever seen. I agree that it needs to be
| seen to be understood and hopefully they can get in retail
| outlets at some point.
| jojule wrote:
| I would love to see terminal/unix being part of the story. I
| realize that one can install Termux, but telling the story
| without it would be super attractive for developers. It would
| also further differentiate from iPad.
|
| Any thoughts on this for us developers?
| mikhailt wrote:
| What's your refund policy if we don't like it? There's no
| mention of refund/return on the page at all.
|
| Thanks.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| full refund if you dont like it
|
| its vulnerable for us as a small startup on a shoestring
| budget to offer this, but it is the right thing to offer
|
| (sorry we will update the page to add details to
| refund/return!)
| divan wrote:
| Any chance of the A4 size device and higher DPI in the future?
| Will pay any money for that.
|
| A4 e-ink has considerable audience that doesn't know they need
| it - people who read papers. All the academia is formatted for
| A4 and stored in PDFs, which is pretty unreadable even on 10".
| People literally print them on paper to read.
|
| I currently enjoying A4-sized Boox Tab X and it's a game
| changer, as I read a lot of papers and want to read more
| outside. Love it so much, and having Android is important
| (instead of some own walled OS), as I can sync my papers via
| ReadCube Papers app. I also tried to use it as a monitor for
| coding, but even with their superrefresh technology refresh
| rate is still a problem.
| dmos62 wrote:
| I do use a newer boox android eink tablet for coding via
| termux and ssh. Great for my needs. I wonder how this
| compares.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| Did you build the display yourself.
| msephton wrote:
| This was also my question, and I found what seems to be the
| answer. It's not quite definitive enough for me, but it's the
| best I've found so far.
|
| > Note: it's 60fps epaper, not off the shelf Eink. We spent
| years developing what we think is the best epaper display in
| the world and it's exclusively manufactured by our display
| factory in Japan.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| yes
| antisthenes wrote:
| Could you please answer my question? Here, without typing it
| again:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40459804
| msephton wrote:
| it's not eink
| mikhailt wrote:
| I watched the videos here: https://daylightco.gorgias.help/en-
| US#article-509983
|
| But it looks like it suffers from backlight bleeding if the
| screen brightness is at medium or full. I'm a bit concerned
| about that, can you help explain why that is happening.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| those videos were shot on pre-production units. we may still
| not be perfect, but it should be a lot better on our most
| recent / PVT / production units
|
| we'll update the videos once launch calms down!
| thot_experiment wrote:
| Can I run my own software on it? I would love to buy an epaper
| portable of some sort, but the fact that they're all locked
| down is a no go. One day I'll live my dream of vim in the
| forest grove.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| yup yes, we will release a bootloader unlock tool so you can
| do whatever you want
| dugite-code wrote:
| If you really do this it would be a fantastic incentive for
| me. Just knowing the community can tinker makes a product
| feel more my own rather than "rented" like some systems out
| there.
| evanphx wrote:
| Upon hearing this (and seeing the software that you've got
| listed on the website) I went and bought one. Looks great!
| thot_experiment wrote:
| I would sign up for a mailing list for when this is
| available, I will probably actually buy one if it's android
| with root.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| This will be a "killer feature" for the crowd here for many
| reasons.
|
| This product would also make for a classy home automation
| tablet.
| ddingus wrote:
| THANK YOU!
|
| There is so much hardware out there people could be hacking
| on, improving, repressing all wasted due to difficulty
| loading new code.
|
| A coworker was given a SONY e-ink device. We quite like it,
| but the included firmware is limited and dependent on a
| windows app that leaves a lot to be desired.
|
| This is early hardware that was given the SONY treatment.
| That means great enclosure and ergonomics, but also
| conservative use of the display and goofy proprietary
| interfaces.
|
| Would not take much to make the device a lot more useful.
|
| One day, we will circle around and be talking about these
| already solid devices and how in-demand they remain despite
| their age because of your great decision.
|
| Sidebar: I really want one, but am price constrained at the
| moment. (Too bad, so sad for me!)
|
| Will the production models see an equally open
| configuration?
|
| Hope so. Thanks again.
| lights0123 wrote:
| I've used vim from the reMarkable and a C interpreter in a
| root shell when my laptop was broken. On-screen keyboard
| wasn't the best experience though
| JoelMcCracken wrote:
| I haven't done a ton of usage outdoors, but my boox max lumi
| works for this. IIUC the android it runs is "unlocked" so I
| think you could use it as a computer if you wanted. I use it
| as a tablet and a monitor.
| funksta wrote:
| Big reMarkable 2 fan here, and it's very intriguing to see some
| competition to traditional eInk!
|
| Coming from the rM2, my immediate concerns are display density,
| and impact of the light on writing feel (both reMarkable and
| Ratta claim that feel suffers with the extra space between the
| pen tip and display).
|
| Also as someone who makes a lot of pdf-based tools for the
| reMarkable, I'd love to see a video or details about the built-
| in pdf (and epub, hopefully!) reader
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| 1) remarkable & ratta are traditional off the shelf eink and
| have to use a frontlight (above the display) which has many
| tradeoffs
|
| 2) daylight actually uses microperforations in our LivePaper
| display, so we're able to use a backlight, which in our
| opinion is superior in multiple ways
|
| one of which, is what you're describing! our backlight doesnt
| affect writing feel or distance from pen tip to display!
|
| (also way better contrast with BLU on with backlight)
|
| 3) thats awesome! feel free to reach out if you want to
| collaborate, we want to build the best PDF experiences out
| there as we're serious about knowledge work
|
| anjan at daylightcomputer.com
|
| we will share more details about our pdf reader later this
| summer when we do an official software launch!
| funksta wrote:
| Very cool! Thank you, I will be following closely and may
| convince myself to join Batch 3 :) And will probably reach
| out in a few days (I'm sure you're quite busy right now!)
| e-_pusher wrote:
| Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this device.
|
| The problem with eink tablets is that they must use front
| light, and not backlight due to how eink works. This means
| there is an extra layer in front of the layer where the
| pixels are, which causes parallax effects which makes writing
| feel fake. This is (likely) why remarkable deleted the
| frontlight from their product.
|
| Whereas with the daylight tablet, we have a trans reflective
| display and a backlight. Since the backlight layer is behind
| the layer where the pixels are, the parallax does not suffer.
|
| I find the experience of writing with a Wacom EMR pen on mine
| very pleasing :)
| bloopernova wrote:
| I was really impressed by the Kindle Scribe pen input. I
| don't suppose you've compared that and the Daylight side by
| side?
|
| Actually that might make an interesting video, going
| through basic workflows on different tablets.
| funksta wrote:
| I did not pick up on the frontlight/backlight distinction
| when reading the overview, thanks! Seems like some very
| novel tech here, I'd love to see more technical details
| when they're revealed
| crhicko wrote:
| Will there be any additional cost like a subscription to use
| the features of the device?
| htk wrote:
| Congratulations on the new tech, looks impressive! Any plans of
| developing monitors or portable displays to use with a
| laptop/smartphone in the sunlight?
| darreninthenet wrote:
| What connectivity will it have? Specifically asking about
| iCloud and Dropbox...
| xnx wrote:
| It sounds like it can run any Android app, so Dropbox should
| definitely work.
| d--b wrote:
| Please, tell me there's a phone coming along. Light Phone made
| a mistake not going Android. You totally nailed it with that
| casually dropped Spotify icon in that shot!
|
| I personally have zero use for a tablet. But if I can have an
| eink phone, with all the authentication apps I need to connect
| to work and do banking (and maps and Spotify), I'll drop that
| iPhone that is frying the brains of my kids instantly.
| jadbox wrote:
| See the Minimal E-ink phone
| op12op12 wrote:
| They were still making major design changes just one week
| ago (first completely removing, then providing a front-
| facing camera option after previously changing the screen
| dimensions and device form factor). There's basically no
| way it ships on their timeline (currently Sept 2024), if it
| ships at all. They nailed the slick marketing, but have
| been full of nonsensical timelines and promises.
| aprilnya wrote:
| They commented on Twitter saying they'll use profits from the
| tablet towards making a phone
| dmicah wrote:
| The Boox Palma doesn't have a cell connection but is a phone-
| sized Android based e-paper tablet.
| jelder wrote:
| Sell me a massive desktop e-ink display with USB-C input. I
| want to code on this.
| eli wrote:
| https://shop.dasung.com ?
| 999900000999 wrote:
| Congratulations on the launch, what was your hardware journey
| like. Did you have a hard time raising capital to manufacure
| prototypes.
|
| I'm working on a small hobbyist project right now,and actually
| getting it built hasn't been fun.
|
| Would love to hear your advice.
| a1o wrote:
| Can you make a screen to replace the one from Gameboy using
| your technology?
| jimmysong wrote:
| As one of the beta testers, let me just say that I _really_
| like this device. It 's very different than a kindle, kobo or
| reMarkable in that the refresh rate really makes a big
| difference. When I show this device to people, I show them how
| quickly zooming in on a PDF is. It's way faster and more
| responsive than any e-ink screen and it's way less addicting
| than the typical laptop, phone or tablet.
|
| I'm attempting to make this device my main driver over the next
| few months and while the ecosystem isn't exactly mature yet,
| most android apps just work out of the box and I've found
| myself doing a lot more reading, either through an e-reading
| app (Lithium), PDF reader or Instapaper. I have X, Primal,
| Telegram and many other apps installed, but I don't go to them
| nearly as much. The device really is a lot more human centered
| and it makes for a much more intentional device.
| bloopernova wrote:
| I've been impressed with the Kindle Scribe I recently got. The
| drawing and note taking is really nice. However, you have to
| email yourself PDFs to get the information out of the tablet!
|
| Will we be able to get data off the tablet easily? Will there
| be documented APIs or other automation available?
| liendolucas wrote:
| Is it 100% open source? Or is it a device that I'm going to be
| locked in like mobile phones? Are any chances that the price
| goes down? I think now this is a factor that prevents me from
| buying it.
| smusamashah wrote:
| I bought a remarkable. But then a 2 years later had to sell it
| because my kid was running around and fiddling with my things.
| I could give my kid the Kindle and will have peace of mind that
| he can't break, even if he tries. Remarkable is just need a
| drop on the floor.
|
| How rugged and heavy is your tablet? If it's easily breakable,
| do you have any future plans to make a tiny, small phone sized
| light weight paper tablet which one can pull out of pocket like
| a notepad write stuff and put back, and most importantly have
| no care in the world of breaking it?
| aidenn0 wrote:
| So this is a trans-reflective LCD screen?
|
| Does it invert the colors when backlit?
|
| It's about 50% heavier than rM2; the battery is almost triple
| the capacity of rM2; I assume these are related and both due to
| the use of LCD over eInk?
|
| How many shades of gray?
| robocat wrote:
| > And we built a whole android tablet around it.
|
| What is the reason it isn't worth your while to sell the
| display seperately so other devices can be built using it?
| coolspot wrote:
| Much lower margin if you just sell a component.
| ddingus wrote:
| Still, once their display partner is ramped up, lower
| margin is still margin. Get it out there through Waveshare
| or someone similar.
|
| I have purchased and made use of several raw displays from
| them. All, but the big e-ink one have been great to work
| with. That one has some proprietary interface to unlock the
| real speed potential and individuals cannot sign the NDA.
| Grrr..
| trelane wrote:
| Is the source available? Is it locked, or can we use our own
| firmware?
| epaperq wrote:
| Can you post a photo or video of a side-by-side comparison of
| the Remarkable 2 and the Daylight Computer?
|
| Right now it's hard to actually tell from your marketing
| materials what the screen looks like
| llm_trw wrote:
| Will you offer a 13 inch version?
|
| What about computer screens?
|
| And a color version?
|
| For background I have a boox max, a dasung 253 bw and dasung
| color 253. Happy to spend even more money on a new generation
| of devices.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| How's the battery usage? You mentioned that it's not bistable
| and doesn't retain an image on power-off; does that mean the
| display requires non-trivial power even while displaying a
| static image? One of the big selling points of my reMarkable 2
| is the incredible battery life.
|
| Any plans for color? I know it'd be a sacrifice of brightness.
| I'm still interested despite the limitations.
| seekage wrote:
| Instant buy. Love the design and mission. Where can I get the
| wooden stand?
| jsheard wrote:
| FYI there's a typo on the product page, "blacklight" instead of
| "backlight". I assume that's not a branding thing since it's
| referred to as a backlight elsewhere.
| endofreach wrote:
| Respect. Not easy to do hardware. I will order one for sure to
| try it out. Very interesting.
|
| A few questions that i hope to get an answer to:
|
| How did you finance the company? How much money did you spend
| on R&D & production etc?
|
| What was the initial idea you had? What were the biggest
| challenges before you knew for sure you got the final product?
| mushufasa wrote:
| > We developed our own custom epaper display tech we call
| LivePaper. We focused on solving the tradeoffs RLCDs
| traditionally have - around reflectance %, metallic-look / not
| Paperlike enough, viewing angle, white state, rainbow mura,
| parallax, resolution, size, lack of quality backlight, etc.
|
| Would you license this to others at a more affordable rate than
| e-ink? Lenovo has some e-ink 2-in-1 "thinkbook" laptops and
| might be a good partner... I'm sure you're considered this
| already.
|
| Personally I am sold on the 'low distraction and eye strain' of
| e-ink, and would be keen on buying a computer with that
| display. That said, I'm more interested in a general computer
| running a general operating system (ubuntu or any linux) if I'm
| using something for daily work. Even if your own operating
| system can do these things I would be concerned with edge-cases
| for software I need for work, so for professional daily usage I
| need an OS that is battle-tested, and not based on a locked-
| down sandboxed mobile system like android where I'd have to
| fight the OS to do what I want.
|
| I do own and use a remarkable, so I'm probably in the target
| market. I only use the remarkable for note taking, it's handy
| for freehand sketching visual ideas or concepts digitally,
| where typing or any sort of computer drawing with a mouse may
| add friction that gets in the way of getting the ideas down
| onto paper. The main advantage over paper is so I don't need to
| worry about misplacing the pieces of draft paper afterwards,
| when I revisit an idea months later.
|
| I definitely don't want a tablet for typing code. If I'm going
| to carry around an external keyboard, I might as well just get
| a thin-and-light laptop.
|
| I almost bought the aforementioned thinkbook with the e-ink
| display. Main reason I didn't was that I was worried about
| compatibility issues if I ran linux, since it's designed for
| windows.
| yencabulator wrote:
| I bet people would pay good money for a Framework display
| module that's usable eInk. (Assuming it can use the same
| display connector.)
|
| https://frame.work/products/display-kit?v=FRANGX0001
|
| https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86.
| ..
| slashtom wrote:
| Concerned a little bit about the lower DPI (190), how does
| aliasing compare to lets say Remarkable 2 (224). I find the
| Kindle Scribe is at 300 DPI.
|
| Handwriting with the Scribe is amazing to me, hoping to see or
| understand how it compares.
| robbiep wrote:
| Congratulations! This looks awesome! Very excited to get my
| hands on one!
| ta988 wrote:
| Can it be rooted and boot unlocked?
| dmitrygr wrote:
| More or less the same screen tech as some old Sony PalmOS PDAs
| like SJ20 from the 2000s: Transflective greyscale LCD.
|
| Glad they are making a comeback. They were nice. I still use an
| SJ20 to read ebooks for this very reason. Plus, they can be had
| for $10 on eBay.
| e-_pusher wrote:
| Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this project.
|
| Thanks for your comment! I grew up using a Palm III that was
| already super old when I had it in high school. But years
| later, my fond memories of the sense of focus I had using it
| became a major inspiration for deciding to join Anjan's team
| for this project :)
| msephton wrote:
| I'd be interested to hear more about the specific screen tech
| and the how it compares with the ~2000s.
| mattkevan wrote:
| Yeah this looks like a cool device. I love my Remarkable, but the
| lack of backlight and slow refresh rate means it's not as
| versatile as it could be.
|
| A tablet that has similar screen properties to eink but with a
| backlight and 60fps would be much more usable, especially at
| night.
| edderkopp wrote:
| Indeed. Another advantage of this tablet over Remarkable is
| that it should be possible to set up synchronization with many
| more cloud services, including Nextcloud. Remarkable is limited
| to the biggest commercial cloud providers.
| cwrichardkim wrote:
| Can you tell us a bit more about the OS? does it resemble stock
| android or would it be unrecognizable for most people?
|
| Tiny bit of feedback: the cart doesn't make it clear what the
| founder's edition is
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| it can pretty easily become / look like stock android if you
| switch out our launcher for one of your preference
|
| we also gonna come out with a bootloader unlock tool so you can
| customize it to your hearts content
|
| goal is to be hacker/DIY friendly.. we'll get better and better
| with this over time
| kepano wrote:
| I've been dreaming of a device like this to run Obsidian on. I
| made an e-ink theme for Obsidian[1] but the refresh rate and
| ghosting of e-ink makes it less appealing to work with. I am
| curious to see if this device will solve some of those issues.
|
| [1] https://minimal.guide/features/eink
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| we have a couple units set aside for devs to optimize their
| apps to the daylight, email me and we can try to get you one!
|
| many of our early testers / customers loved using it as an
| obsidian typewriter
|
| anjan 'at' daylightcomputer.com
| kepano wrote:
| I preordered one already but will do!
| ghotli wrote:
| In one of the pictures on the site was it sitting on a dock
| with a keyboard. I use obsidian and would use this as an
| obsidian typewriter. If I order is it just the tablet itself
| or more? I presume it runs Linux so any keyboard that would
| work in that environment would work with the device? Even
| better if I can ssh into it.
|
| Edit: I see elsewhere in this thread that it's android. If I
| can adb shell into it and push my own custom launcher to it,
| I'll buy one today :)
| ant6n wrote:
| I dunno, after the steaming pile that the Dasun Color Monitor
| turned out to be (some notes of mine here [1]), I'm kind of weary
| of this e-ink thing. The problem isn't just ghosting and
| slowness, I could deal with that. It's also reflective, very poor
| contrast, bad dithering, awful color reproduction.
|
| One would have to hold it in ones hand first.
|
| ...very cool looking project though.
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40364254
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| we're not eink like them! see my comment here :)
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40457491
| vineyardlabs wrote:
| Any more specific numbers on battery life? I see it says "days"
| on the website, but I'm curious if there's an hours number with
| usage condition specified (ie, screen on, reading a book, etc.)
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| still doing more testing, but some test results:
|
| - reading without amber backlight: 67 hours - youtube without
| amber backlight: 30 hours - reading with 30% amber brightness:
| 30 hours
| vineyardlabs wrote:
| That sounds fantastic, thanks.
| e-_pusher wrote:
| Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this device.
|
| Anjan can comment further to see if the team these days has any
| further optimizations in store, but with my personal Daylight
| tablet anecdotally, these days I am charging it every other
| week, and using it for 1-2 hours a day to browse the web and
| read PDFs. I usually have a low backlight setting on it.
| vineyardlabs wrote:
| Awesome, thanks!
| ax0ar wrote:
| I got super hyped first when I saw all the details. I use a Boox
| Page and love the device. This would be a super nice addition
| which could act as a fully functional tablet.
|
| But then I saw the price tag, and that it's only 190 ppi. That
| killed it immediately for me. I hated the first few generations
| of Kindle because of the low resolution display. I think it's
| unbearable in an e-ink display. And the price is a bit outrageous
| for what it offers..
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| i think your feedback is fair. if you're open to a few
| considerations:
|
| - with monochrome pixels (ie no RGB subpixels), resolution is
| not really apples to apples.. things look a lot crisper
| subjectively than their objective resolution spec
|
| i think a bunch of early customers have tweeted out their
| reactions to resolution/crispness. id encourage you to ask them
| for their feedback if you were still curious
|
| not claiming its perfect, just that its not as bad as you think
| it is.
|
| (PS we chose this resolution specifically cuz it results in a
| larger aperture ratio which enables a brighter screen.. we had
| other experiments at 220-240ppi, but we couldn't really tell a
| difference in resolution, and the brightness difference was
| palpable)
|
| PPS on price - not much we can do here, extremely difficult to
| get even the price we did on low batch totally new custom
| displays.. we're proud of what we're able to do, but we
| understand there's a tesla roadster effect of sorts.. starts
| our expensive, and successive generations will ride the cost
| curve down tremendously
|
| but cant get there without early supporters. so you choose
| anon! more economical samsung, or more pricey (but worth it?)
| indies like us!
| dot5xdev wrote:
| I'm a current owner of a Ratta Supernote A5X. I use the Supernote
| all the time. I previously had a Remarkable 2, but thankfully
| Remarkable added a subscription which made me look elsewhere and
| led me to the Supernote.
|
| This seems right up my alley. Although, $800 seems steep.
|
| The new Supernote A5X2 is due this year... at probably half the
| price? Granted it doesn't have the 60fps display, but it
| definitely has a bunch of other features. Is the 60fps worth $400
| more?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| you're right, for some folks it's not gonna be worth the price
| increase
|
| we understand that, and we hope we can bring the price down
| with scale
|
| for some of the folks who its worth it for, some of the reasons
| are: - onenote or noteshelf or goodnotes on eink working
| without lag makes it worth it - obsidian or google docs or your
| terminal working without latency - you end up reading way more
| substacks, articles, blogs, things in the browser - dragon ball
| z on eink is fun :)
| sevg wrote:
| @boochiboo12
|
| Looks like a really interesting device! I have one question about
| one of the taglines on the home page "A distraction free space".
| What are the things inherent to the OS that make it distraction
| free? Is it Android with notifications ripped out?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| the simplest mod is notifications off by default
|
| but we've got a bunch of things in the pipeline also
|
| for example, one sec like 'app delaying / intentional friction'
| functionalities built into the OS
| fuzztester wrote:
| I always preferred amber to green when using monochrome PC
| monitors way back.
| garyrob wrote:
| My biggest need is for an ebook reader. What abilities does it
| have in that area? Having trouble finding info on that on the web
| site.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| - run the kindle app (android app) - run epub readers like
| lithium reader - use our PDF reader or others like adobe - go
| into the browser and download books - use google play books and
| its beautiful page flip animation lol
| garyrob wrote:
| Excellent! Thanks!
| antisthenes wrote:
| Without going into pricing details, what's the longevity of an
| e-ink device at 60fps?
|
| As far as I understand it, e-ink has essentially a "finite"
| albeit a very large number of refreshes available, when moving
| the "nodules" to display different images.
|
| Has the issue been solved? E.g. will users be able to get at
| least 5-7 years of heavy usage out of this device? Or will this
| become e-waste after 2-3 years?
| naikrovek wrote:
| It's not eink, it's a reflective lcd whose design tradeoffs
| were tweaked for what this manufacturer wanted.
|
| While technically it is an lcd, reflective lcds are extremely
| readable in sunlight and use very little power to maintain the
| image on screen. An epaper/eink display uses zero power to
| maintain the display and uses electrostatic manipulation to
| refresh the screen.
| thih9 wrote:
| Is there an independent review, preferably video?
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| coming! should be a bunch of unofficial ones on twitter
| beckthompson wrote:
| Man looked super cool but its just too expensive for me. I hope
| you guys are successful so your price point can go down a little
| so I can buy one in the future!
| turtlebits wrote:
| IMO, the software will be the most important part of the device,
| not necessarily the screen.
|
| What makes the Remarkable great is that it's functionality (while
| limited) makes for an excellent experience.
|
| Any more details on what apps will be built in and designed for
| the device? (not just 3rd party Android apps that will feel like
| any other tablet).
|
| Also - I would order this immediately to support more e-ink
| devices, but the display is too small for me - at least 13" to
| display full page documents.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| we've built our own PDF parser / renderer, so we have a pretty
| good beta PDF reader app we're building
|
| next up would be epub reader / support
|
| and then building our own notetaker & typewriter app (though
| google docs, lex.page, IA writer are pretty good)
|
| and many more services and apps, like actually finally good
| handwriting recognition
| goatking wrote:
| Why PDF first? Isn't reading Ebooks (in ebook format) the
| main use case for such devices?
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| Once you're approaching regular paper size, PDF is king.
|
| There are just so, so many documents out there which were
| laid out with A4 paper in mind, which can't really be
| converted to any other format with reasonable effort. Just
| think of every research paper published ever.
|
| People who are primarily reading books aren't really in the
| market for this kind of device. You can read books just
| fine on any old kindle and it's far more comfortable on a
| smaller, lighter device.
| turtlebits wrote:
| Likely to focus on use cases for their display tech. Ebooks
| are already solved and faster refresh won't meaningfully
| improve the experience over other devices.
| amelius wrote:
| Why not use existing libraries, like Poppler?
| msephton wrote:
| Obsidian already announced an update to support it.
|
| - https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1793691977642561952
|
| - https://www.threads.net/@kepano/post/C7UeqwtvHJe
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| I had a remarkable for like a day before I retuned it. Couldn't
| write-to-text into a PDF. Could type into a PDF or could write-
| to-text in their writing app. But not in a PDF. It was also
| intolerably slow.
| eli wrote:
| Aren't there already Android tablets with eink screens?
| CrazyStat wrote:
| Yes. I have a Boox, and I'm quite happy with it. I don't use
| many android apps, but the killer app for me (why I got it
| over a Remarkable or Kindle Scribe) is being able to run a
| Zotero-compatible app (Zoo for Zotero) with bidirectional
| sync for reading and marking up PDFs.
| jsheard wrote:
| There are but OP doesn't appear to be using e-ink, it's much
| too fast to be that. I would guess it's an unorthodox form of
| LCD display.
| CrazyStat wrote:
| It's reflective LCD (RLCD).
| jsheard wrote:
| But with a backlight, which is novel I think?
| smusamashah wrote:
| KOReader is great for Eink devices. I used it both on my
| Remarkable and Kindle. It's made for paper like displays. It
| already has an android version.
| localfirst wrote:
| this is good enough to game on
| faxmeyourcode wrote:
| To me the videos are absolutely mind blowing, congratulations on
| the launch.
|
| It feels like a leap forward in an area of tech that has totally
| stagnated (e-ink). I think this device is tackling a few hard
| problems all at once. Well done and I wish you luck.
| BadHumans wrote:
| I need this to have a dedicated drawing app with layers for me to
| even consider this. None of the eink tablets right now have good
| drawing apps even if you can technically do it.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| you can try concepts on our thing! its a pretty damn good
| drawing app / procreate alt
| msephton wrote:
| I have to see that the way you're managing the pre-orders and
| batches on your website is exemplary. Congrats to your web team!
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Is this running a forked kernel and do you plan on mainlining the
| changes you made to Linux?
| tristor wrote:
| I am not an Android user, but I primarily rely on a cross-
| platform note taking app that supports Android. Does Android with
| this device support OS-native OCR to convert writing to text? I'm
| curious if this is usable with Standard Notes.
|
| I currently own and use a reMarkable 2 daily, and then transcribe
| notes to Standard Notes when I'm near my computer. Would love
| something that lets me skip the transcription step with the
| advantages of e-ink / writing with a stylus.
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| standard notes has an android app you could use!
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.standardno...
|
| and we're working on OS level native OCR
|
| in the meantime you could use myscript nebo
|
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.myscript.n...
| tristor wrote:
| It looks like Nebo is an alternative note-taking app? I will
| email the Standard Notes dev team and see if they are
| planning to do the lift for OCR on this type of device. I see
| upthread someone has mentioned Obsidian will do so.
| layer8 wrote:
| It would be nice for e-ink to eventually get better contrast than
| this: https://daylightcomputer.com/_next/static/media/split-
| compar...
| boochiboo12 wrote:
| our contrast can vary depending on the lighting envrionment,
| its the nature of non lambertian reflective displays with
| optical gain
|
| most of the time its pretty good!
|
| in dimmer environments, you can boost contrast by boosting the
| backlight a bit
| freitasm wrote:
| I was just trying to order one. But only available to ship to a
| limited list of countries.
| danlitt wrote:
| Why?! The point of eink is that it's slow refresh.
| minzi wrote:
| Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the size of the device?
| Was it driven by cost considerations, preferences of the founding
| team, something else?
|
| I think it's a little too big for me, but I'm tempted.
| edderkopp wrote:
| What is included in the price in addition to the tablet itself?
| Stylus? Cover?
|
| Is it possible to fasten the stylus to the tablet/cover such that
| the stylus doesn't get lost easily?
|
| If the stylus gets lost, is it possible to purchase a new one?
| codingpanic wrote:
| Love that you are calling a tablet what it really is: a computer.
|
| Now for a crazy question: does the Daylight Computer support an
| external full color display via a usb-c dock? Color when you need
| it... epaper when you don't.
| mintplant wrote:
| Epilepsy warning if you're on Firefox! The page background
| rapidly flashes between black to white:
|
| https://streamable.com/85wbac
|
| The flashing is much more rapid than shows up in my screen
| recording.
|
| (Firefox 126.0 on Windows 11)
| firstSpeaker wrote:
| Is there any video/comparison for the software functionality with
| the likes of Kindle Scribeb, ReMarkable, etc. for note taking?
| heliostatic wrote:
| Ordered. Can you recommend a stand that has worked well? Love the
| vision.
| dash2 wrote:
| Very interested to see this. I have a Supernote which has passed
| the basic gadget test: I still use it regularly after the initial
| few weeks. But it's true that it is limited to (a) taking notes
| in meetings and (b) reading and annotating PDFs. I wonder what
| more I would do with a truly fast screen.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| I'm only able to see the page for a split second before it throws
| a full-screen 'application error'.
| gillygize wrote:
| It looks like it currently doesn't ship to Japan. Any plans to
| include Japan in the future? I would have pre-ordered already if
| it did.
| lastdong wrote:
| One thing that disappointed me with rM2 was the broken promise of
| developing your apps, rm2 became pretty closed (or not as easy
| and accessible) ecosystem, and I think it suffered. Most people
| on rM1 praised their DIY and hackability. Daydream looks
| beautiful, I hope they incentivise apps creation for the everyday
| engineer, who likes to tinker in spare time - it is Android
| yencabulator wrote:
| Android 13, at a time when 15 will likely be production ready in
| a few months, seems to hint at a risk of not getting updates.
| zbowling wrote:
| Sol:OS... it's just Android but we have to call it an OS I guess
| 698969 wrote:
| Where do I invest?
| yismail wrote:
| product aside, I thought the design of the website and the
| branding was quite sleek, kudos to the team.
| CarVac wrote:
| Would be neat to have this display for the Framework 13...
| RistrettoMike wrote:
| Looks great!
|
| I have a Boox tablet from a few years ago that I'm still using
| sporadically, and can't quite justify replacing yet, but if I was
| in the market this would be very, very appealing. Congrats to the
| team on the launch! :)
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