[HN Gopher] Daylight Computer - New 60fps e-paper tablet
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       Daylight Computer - New 60fps e-paper tablet
        
       Author : asadm
       Score  : 415 points
       Date   : 2024-05-23 16:38 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (daylightcomputer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (daylightcomputer.com)
        
       | asadm wrote:
       | Can somebody figure out display part# this uses?
        
         | Projectiboga wrote:
         | Display is custom made for them, it is not a part. Only way to
         | buy is as offered.
        
       | spaceisballer wrote:
       | It's funny that Tech is the source of and solution to all of our
       | problems. But my real critique is that all portable devices these
       | days are around $1000 dollars. I'm sure this display makes the
       | device expensive, why can't we just have a more humane workflow
       | in our current devices instead of buying a new device?
        
         | normalaccess wrote:
         | For some, e-ink displays are the holy grail of tech. I have
         | several e-ink devices but the real hangup is the refresh rate.
         | If this solves that problem in a meaningful way it could be
         | game changing.
        
           | jll29 wrote:
           | I agree, refresh rate is an issue that is more important than
           | energy usage, colors or life time (apparently e-ink dies
           | quicker when viewing videos).
           | 
           | I'm just experimenting with a USB-based external e-ink
           | display to see if it is capable of reading/writing/editing
           | technical documents (started last week), using a device with
           | a 50% more affordable price point. My first impression was I
           | needed to increase the font size to be able to work. Let's
           | see how it goes.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | Video forces e-ink screens to redraw the scene 30 times per
             | second. For static text like an ebook, the display
             | redrawing the scene far less frequently, maybe once every
             | 30 seconds, if that's how long it takes to read a page of
             | text.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Images look terrible on e-ink, so that's an issue as well.
        
           | cush wrote:
           | Some are comparing their display tech to Pebble, which was so
           | threatening to the growing smartwatch market that Fitbit
           | purchased the company and (for reasons I don't know) took all
           | their IP and shelved it. I wonder if Daylight will be able to
           | keep their mission when Amazon comes knocking
        
             | keane wrote:
             | Happily they're a public benefit corporation
        
         | cush wrote:
         | The most expensive part of a device is the display. This is a
         | bleeding-edge, first -generation, low-production-run display on
         | top of an Android tablet. If it does what the demos show, it's
         | the device I've been waiting a decade for and is totally worth
         | $800, to me. Also, the price includes a Wacom pen. Hopefully
         | they can get the costs down, but the price seems completely
         | fair.
        
       | normalaccess wrote:
       | Ohh my, on first blush this looks great.
        
       | sparrish wrote:
       | Android 13 with 8GB RAM. I'm not familiar with the MediaTek Helio
       | G99 CPU.
       | 
       | Will this perform well or just be another underpowered tablet for
       | $800?
        
         | 15155 wrote:
         | I haven't been impressed by any Mediatek part to date.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | This Xiaomi tablet uses the same chip as us
           | 
           | It's pretty decent performance, and what makes it special is
           | how good battery life is
           | 
           | Check the notebook check review
           | 
           | https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Redmi-Pad-review-
           | Afford...
        
             | sparrish wrote:
             | Who's "us"? Are you affiliated with Daylight Computer?
        
               | jv95 wrote:
               | Based on their other post in this thread they're the
               | founder of daylight computer.
        
               | Workaccount2 wrote:
               | Its the founder.
        
         | dtx1 wrote:
         | > 2x Arm Cortex-A76 up to 2.2GHz > 6x Arm Cortex-A55 up to
         | 2.0GHz > LPDDR4X > Arm Mali-G57 MC2
         | 
         | Not great, not terrible. I'd say lower middle class phone,
         | roughly equivalent to the Snapdragon 680. The real question is
         | longterm software and security support. I'd bet good money this
         | will se one android update and security patches late or never
         | at best.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | They've said the bootloader is unlocked so it should never be
           | totally obsolete.
        
         | bottom999mottob wrote:
         | At this price point, I'd much rather have an portable e-paper
         | external display at a cheaper price. Seems quite underpowered
        
           | floundy wrote:
           | Indeed! A Waveshare portable e-ink monitor is $499.99 for the
           | 10.3" size, almost identical to the Daylight's 10.5" display.
           | The external display would also outlast this tablet device
           | for sure.
           | 
           | And if I'm reading the MediaTek Helio G99 specs correctly, it
           | seems to have similar raw performance to a Raspberry Pi 5.
           | One could easily put together a little "productivity PC"
           | using a Pi (or a Windows mini PC), a power bank, and have the
           | added benefit of full-fledged desktop apps rather than
           | Android versions of them.
           | 
           | I wanted to want to impulse buy this thing. But the above
           | analysis, as well as the lack of any real hands-on 3rd party
           | video-based reviews will be a no from me.
        
             | boochiboo12 wrote:
             | if you make something comparable for $729, i will buy it
             | from you x 10
             | 
             | not kidding
             | 
             | its hard to get things made at low batch sizes with good
             | economics!
             | 
             | (third party video based reviews coming in the weeks ahead!
             | youtubers hopefully will actually reply to us now after the
             | attention of this launch)
             | 
             | PS this review does a good job of describing the perf /
             | tradeoffs of the G99 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-
             | Redmi-Pad-review-Afford...
             | 
             | we're gadget nerds, its not as bad as you think :)
             | 
             | in fact, no early users have complained about performance
             | at all, either to us or on twitter
             | 
             | we're open to feedback on how to improve the next gen! all
             | we ask is to judge based on actual performance on intended
             | workloads and not specs nor crysis lol
        
               | xnx wrote:
               | I hope MKBHD does a review of it.
        
       | nathcd wrote:
       | Looks nice! I think I'd only get it if I could use it as a
       | monitor though. Displaying more than grayscale colors would be a
       | plus too. Still glad to see it though.
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | we aim to build a monitor, but hardware companies arent very
         | hot for VCs, so cash flow from selling the tablet is the
         | primary way we are going to fund building a monitor, phone, and
         | laptop
        
           | cush wrote:
           | So good to hear! This seems like it would be right up the
           | alley for a company like Nothing Phone
        
       | NBJack wrote:
       | Oof. I hope the tablet is better than the website. I think I need
       | to switch to a device with a dedicated GPU to see it right. My
       | laptop is struggling, and it's running a 12th gen i5. They seem
       | to be using a video provider that can't keep up either.
       | 
       | Still, the tablet looks exciting, especially since it's based on
       | Android. I'm curious as to how they overcame the refresh rate
       | issue that plagues so many similar displays.
        
         | normalaccess wrote:
         | It's a transflective display. Although not E-Ink it may solve
         | many of the same problems while having a reasonable refresh
         | rate and less burn in.
         | 
         | Comment from Daylight_Co
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17...
        
         | knowaveragejoe wrote:
         | It's strange, on an M2 with chrome I often struggle with
         | websites like this. but this one is seamless for me.
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | Agreed. I don't have faith they can make a usable device if
         | they can't make a usable web page.
         | 
         | Never break, take over, or "fix" scrolling! Never!
        
         | tedunangst wrote:
         | I wonder how well the tablet renders its own homepage.
        
       | andrewcchen wrote:
       | It's not an e-ink display, but rather a monochrome
       | transreflective lcd. [1]
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17...
        
         | normalaccess wrote:
         | Hmmm, a little disappointed but I'm I still very interested. My
         | favorite smart watch was a pebble and they used a transflective
         | display, I loved it. If this is more of the same but refined
         | and bigger count me in.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | It is a Godzilla pebble watch
           | 
           | I hope you will be pleased
        
             | modeless wrote:
             | I hope you don't meet the same fate as Pebble. Maybe you
             | can do a watch next?
        
               | boochiboo12 wrote:
               | need more feedback on what the use case / killer apps to
               | nail of a 'pebble watch returns' would be
        
               | modeless wrote:
               | Week+ battery life, truly always on, sunlight readable,
               | much smaller size/thickness and thus more comfortable
               | than all other smart watches.
               | 
               | For me, the use case of a smartwatch is notifications. It
               | lets me keep my phone on silent all the time without
               | missing important messages or calls. Proper filtering is
               | important so you don't get notification spam on your
               | wrist but some notifications truly are important and
               | checking them without taking out my phone, and even
               | sending a quick reply, is awesome. I also use the "extend
               | unlock" feature of Android which works with any Bluetooth
               | device but especially well with one that is always on
               | your wrist. Locating a lost phone is another great
               | feature. Timers and alarms are a given of course. Maps
               | navigation directions on your wrist can also be useful
               | (but you get this for free with a proper implementation
               | of notifications).
               | 
               | To me the paradox of the wearables market is that it
               | seems like the only reason people buy them is as fitness
               | trackers which they are actually pretty bad at. The
               | numbers they report might as well be made up in many
               | cases, and the weird metrics they provide aren't useful.
               | The sensors make the watch thicker and less comfortable
               | too. Meanwhile, it's actually super useful to have phone
               | notifications on your wrist, but people don't seem
               | interested, and e.g. Android Wear really sucks at it.
               | (Can't speak for the Apple Watch as I don't have an
               | iPhone, but I've always felt that the hardware design was
               | ugly.)
        
         | blamestross wrote:
         | I'm totally ok with that and actual communications from the
         | company are very clear about what it is. Looks like this is out
         | of their control.
        
         | cal85 wrote:
         | I don't see the word transflective anywhere on that Reddit
         | post, and don't really know what it means. Where did you get
         | that info, or is it obvious from looking at it?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks--we've changed the title from "Daylight: 60fps E-ink
         | Tablet" now.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Thank you.
         | 
         | I still think that calling it e-paper is disingenuous. My
         | initial impression was that this was some e-ink breakthrough,
         | but it's really just a backlit monochrome LCD. I'm not sure how
         | they can claim that it's "non-emissive", when it literally uses
         | a backlight. An LCD with an amber filter doesn't come close to
         | the readability of e-ink, so I'm not sure what advancements
         | they've made to make it feel like "magic" or "paper-like".
         | Shelling out $729 to find out how it looks in person, based on
         | a slick marketing site and positive comments from "beta
         | testers", is a hard ask.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | the site loads OK, but keeps crashing when I scroll to the
       | "animated text on scroll" section . I'm on Brave Android on a
       | phone with 12GB RAM.
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | should be fixed now, does it work for you? thanks for helping
         | report a bug
        
       | boochiboo12 wrote:
       | Hi yall, founder of Daylight here.
       | 
       | Happy to answer any questions you have. Long time lurker, so this
       | is pretty cool to finally take part :)
       | 
       | I made this because I wanted the eye-strain free and minimalist
       | qualities of my kindle/Eink applied to so much more of what I do
       | on a computer.
       | 
       | Lack of speed and ghosting felt like it made traditional Eink
       | impossible to do most computing tasks. So we focused on making
       | the most Paperlike epaper display that has no ghosting and high
       | refresh rate - 60 to 120fps. We started working on this in 2018.
       | 
       | We developed our own custom epaper display tech we call
       | LivePaper. We focused on solving the tradeoffs RLCDs
       | traditionally have - around reflectance %, metallic-look / not
       | Paperlike enough, viewing angle, white state, rainbow mura,
       | parallax, resolution, size, lack of quality backlight, etc.
       | 
       | First proof of concept in late 2021, and then it took us 2.5
       | years to get it into production.
       | 
       | And we built a whole android tablet around it.
       | 
       | It's essentially our attempt at making a remarkable tablet on
       | steroids / kindle on steroids. Definitely some trade offs, but on
       | the whole we think it's worth it. (& on twitter a bunch of early
       | customers seem to think so too)
       | 
       | Note: it's 60fps epaper, not off the shelf Eink. We spent years
       | developing what we think is the best epaper display in the world
       | and it's exclusively manufactured by our display factory in
       | Japan.
       | 
       | There's still many cases where traditional Eink is going to be
       | better (bistability, viewing angle, white state color, etc), but
       | we feel for more general purpose computers you can code on and do
       | google docs on and do fast multitouch amongst a thousand other
       | things, the speed and lack of ghosting totally makes it worth it.
       | 
       | Think of it as a Godzilla sized pebble watch with a decade of
       | improvement
       | 
       | Or think of it as a gameboy advanced, advanced
        
         | achow wrote:
         | It does look great.
         | 
         | Any plans of supplying the ePaper display to OEM's like Amazon,
         | Remarkable, etc.?
        
         | dcan wrote:
         | Any plans to sell just the display?
        
           | cush wrote:
           | It's interesting that Anjan compared the display tech to
           | Pebble, because selling off the company instead of just the
           | IP is where Pebble completely failed consumers. Pebble had
           | something incredibly special, and then Fitbit bought Pebble
           | and (for reasons I don't know) immediately killed all their
           | projects and shelved all their tech. In a different reality,
           | Anjan would have said, "Think of it as a Godzilla sized
           | Fitbit watch with a decade of improvement". Selling just the
           | screens seems like the obvious play here
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | The Pebbles display wasn't Pebbles own tech, they used off-
             | the-shelf MIP LCDs from Sharp. You can still buy them and
             | they're still used in more utilitarian wearables, e.g. from
             | Garmin, and in the Playdate.
             | 
             | Sharp doesn't make anything tablet-sized though, so that's
             | not what OP is using.
        
               | utopcell wrote:
               | They do have 5" and 31.5" reflective displays though,
               | they call them Reflective IGZO Displays.
        
           | thot_experiment wrote:
           | https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider if you're interested in
           | DIY see here
        
         | aresant wrote:
         | Instantly bought this to support your mission
         | 
         | A "calm" computer interface is such a welcome idea and quality
         | pursuit
         | 
         | Participating in the good of the digital world - information
         | access, communication, creativity
         | 
         | While mitigating the bad - always on notifications, bio-hostile
         | blue light interface, doom scrolling etc
         | 
         | I hope that this V1 release of your philosophy is successful
         | enough to keep building
         | 
         | To that end what are your long term goals / plans?
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | holy moly dude you are articulating our value prop and
           | philosophy even better than we can
           | 
           | glad to be on the same team!
           | 
           | long term goals/plans
           | 
           | - make a whole ecosystem of healthier, distraction free
           | computers.. phones, laptops, monitors, workstations, watches,
           | PDAs, epaper whiteboards, etc - make awesome software that we
           | can offer as public goods, funded by cash flow from hardware
           | and memberships etc - make 'magical analogue objects' like
           | actually good sunrise alarm clocks, time timers, calendars,
           | habit trackers, better phillip hues, etc
        
             | xnx wrote:
             | Wow. Great looking device and great long term
             | vision/mission. As someone who hacked an old Kindle to make
             | a persistent weather display, I am wholly in support of
             | what you're working on.
        
             | ddingus wrote:
             | Fantastic! I am definitely going to follow you and team
             | with great interest!
             | 
             | These ideas are SO needed right now.
        
         | dtx1 wrote:
         | So this is an advanced form of reflective LCD? Interesting. LTT
         | recently tested a color display like that too[0].
         | 
         | A few Questions: Why is it black and white? Does the Image stay
         | the same when the device is off? What is the surface like for
         | the Pen? Is the Display recessed so there's parallax between
         | pen and Display or is it laminated like an iPad? How is the
         | repairability? Can the battery be replaced easily? How is
         | software support going to be? Since I'm supposed to link all
         | kinds of cloud accounts to it, I would not buy this without a
         | statement regarding security updates and support lifetime.
         | 
         | Looks cool though! [0]
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0TcGjzKbag
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | 1) black & white because bayer color filter will cut your
           | brightness by 66%
           | 
           | 2) alas we gave up bistability for speed, so the image
           | doesn't stay when you turn it off (however, we maybe can do
           | quasi-bistability with this tech for watch or kindle sized
           | future devices)
           | 
           | 3) the pen writing feel is similar to my favorite japanese
           | paper campus kokoyu. you could argue comparable to a
           | remarkable or maybe even better for some
           | 
           | 4)its all laminated / optically bonded
           | 
           | 5) we can improve on repairability, its fine, but nothing
           | stand out. we have big plans in the future here though
           | 
           | 6) we're aiming to build the business on customer trust so we
           | better be good at software updates! android is hard though,
           | so its definitely a learning curve and requires a lot of
           | resources
           | 
           | 7) we'll do better to earn your trust around using our
           | accounts - lots of plans in the coming months and years to be
           | the best privacy + security + sovereignty computers!
        
             | kiliantorpey wrote:
             | Some more questions about software support. It seems the
             | device is using android. Do you have any plan to support
             | mainline linux kernel? It could allow the possibility to
             | use native linux distro like PostmarketOS
             | (https://postmarketos.org/) for device longevity. Your team
             | could also benefit from delegating some softare support
             | effort to linux kernel team.
        
               | boochiboo12 wrote:
               | we're open to it! we just need to better understand what
               | resources we need internally to support this effort and
               | for the specific mediatek/qualcomm chips we're looking at
        
             | sp0rk wrote:
             | I think the average person (myself included) does not know
             | that something can be considered ePaper without being
             | bistable. The two are married in my head because all of the
             | ePaper devices that I've been exposed to thus far have been
             | bistable. If I were you, I would find a clever way to
             | communicate this fact without making it sound like too much
             | of a drawback.
        
             | pcdoodle wrote:
             | 7) hits home for me. This is already buy worthy.
        
         | bestouff wrote:
         | Will I be able to install LineageOS on this - as I do on all of
         | my devices ?
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | yes! we're going to come out with a bootloader unlock tool as
           | well so you can do whatever you want
           | 
           | our goal is to be DIY friendly, so we included things i've
           | always wanted in a tablet like:
           | 
           | - microSD card expandable - pogo pins for custom accessories
           | (ie cyber deck FTW) - 2 extra physical buttons you can custom
           | map
        
             | bestouff wrote:
             | Oooh nice ! You have one more customer
        
         | up6w6 wrote:
         | > Lack of speed and ghosting felt like it made traditional Eink
         | impossible to do most computing tasks. So we focused on making
         | the most Paperlike epaper display that has no ghosting and high
         | refresh rate - 60 to 120fps. We started working on this in
         | 2018.
         | 
         | The website mentions 60hz, will it also support 120hz?
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | we're trying to underpromise and overdeliver, and our display
           | can now do 60 - 120 fps, but believe it or not, our PDF
           | renderer and software can't match that yet.
           | 
           | So we're waiting till we can holistically do 120fps before
           | announcing that.
           | 
           | But if you do frame rate tests, you'll see its 120fps
           | 
           | (for the nerds out there, its 6hz-120hz variable refresh rate
           | IGZO)
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | While we are talking "LCD" and "In direct sunlight" and
             | "display is close to surface" were you able to fit circular
             | polarizers in there, or will I need to take my sunglasses
             | off when using?
        
         | cush wrote:
         | I'm so rooting for you! Got in on Batch 2
         | 
         | When can we expect our favourite tech vloggers to share their
         | thoughts on review units?
        
         | stevenschmatz wrote:
         | Huge congrats! I've been dreaming of something like this for a
         | while - instant pre-order!
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | your support means everything! thank you!
           | 
           | i wish people could understand how hard it is to survive low
           | volume novel consumer electronics.. not meant to solicit
           | pity, but to appreciate why we're all just stuck with big
           | tech after indie company after indie company fail
        
             | amne wrote:
             | make a display for framework laptop. please
        
             | xupybd wrote:
             | Your prices are impressive for low volume.
             | 
             | I hope things go well for you. These are the kinds of
             | devices I want to become mainstream.
        
         | ramesh31 wrote:
         | Why no LTE?
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | $$$
           | 
           | certifications for mobile/modems are _expensive_
           | 
           | our future gens will have it once/if we have the resources
        
             | russdill wrote:
             | The space of android tablets with LTE is frustratingly
             | small.
        
         | causality0 wrote:
         | It would be cool if we could cast our phone screens to it. That
         | way we wouldn't have to deal with file and app synchronization,
         | cellular tethering, or any of the other friction points of
         | using multiple devices.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | its a good idea, know any good firmware / encoding engineers
           | who could help us build really good casting?
        
             | chrisoconnell wrote:
             | Let's chat. I'd love to connect and see if we can make this
             | happen.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | I think this might be possible out of the box with Android
           | apps like ScreenStream: https://play.google.com/store/apps/de
           | tails?id=info.dvkr.scre...
        
             | yencabulator wrote:
             | That seems to go in the other direction, show Android
             | screen on browser.
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | Looks great, albeit a high price point. Why not a newer
         | Android?
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | just small dev team, updating to new android and porting over
           | all your changes is a tremendous amount of work believe it or
           | not
           | 
           | if launch goes well, the team's gonna get a lot bigger and
           | you can expect us being able to do much more on the
           | AOSP/android side
        
             | azinman2 wrote:
             | I did order one, but what happens if you go out of
             | business? What risk do I then have?
             | 
             | I assume this supports the play store, right?
        
         | 7thaccount wrote:
         | Is there a video of someone playing Doom?
        
           | kennethrc wrote:
           | ... or Crysis
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | What if I want this display tech but just as a monitor to use
         | with my existing setup for doing engineering work? (E.g. emacs,
         | tiling window manager, etc.)
         | 
         | The device as it's presented looks like a consumption device
         | ("tablet" etc), but tech like this seems like it'd be most
         | useful for a _production_ device (general purpose computing
         | device, programming /development tools).
         | 
         | I'd like the display, but uncoupled from the lifestyle
         | assumptions that come with a consumer lifestyle tablet
         | accessory...
        
           | msephton wrote:
           | Keep an eye on the market for RLCD monitors. I read Hanspree
           | are releasing one ~Sept.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | There are a few techniques for using an Android device as a
           | second monitor. I assume those would also work for the
           | Daylight Computer.
        
         | tapia wrote:
         | This looks very exiting! I am a long-time Sony DPT/Fujitsu
         | Quaderno user and love these kind of devices. My question would
         | be whether you have plans in the future to make a 13.3"
         | version. The 10" versions are just too small for my use (mostly
         | reading scientific papers).
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | yes we do! ipad mini and 13.Xin versions are kawaii af
        
             | tapia wrote:
             | Great to hear that! I'll be looking forward to it.
        
         | stefanha wrote:
         | I have a hard time getting a sense of what the display is
         | really like from the website and the embedded video (it cuts
         | too quickly, uses depth of field shots of the tablet, etc).
         | 
         | Given that this is all about a new display, it would be nice to
         | show a more pragmatic demo video right upfront. A demo that
         | gives a clear look at how the display behaves with respect to
         | lighting, reflections, animation, touch screen, etc. That's
         | what I would look for when deciding to buy this.
         | 
         | Maybe YouTube reviewers will end up providing this
         | information...
        
           | floundy wrote:
           | The lack of any 3rd party hands-on video reviews was the
           | biggest red flag that halted any consideration I had to
           | purchase this product.
        
             | boochiboo12 wrote:
             | they're coming!! but i appreciate your skepticism until
             | there's more video proof, i am the same
             | 
             | too many broken promises by other tech cos, i understand we
             | have to earn your trust
             | 
             | there should be more video reviews coming out on twitter
             | though from early customers / testers
             | 
             | .. if i wasnt drowning in launch, id try to find you a
             | link, if anyone else could help !
        
             | typon wrote:
             | Looking forward to the MKBHD review
        
           | mikhailt wrote:
           | You can see the videos here:
           | https://daylightco.gorgias.help/en-US#article-509983
        
             | smusamashah wrote:
             | Wrong link?
        
               | Chilko wrote:
               | If you click on "Get to Know the Daylight Computer"
               | section it has some videos.
        
               | mastazi wrote:
               | This should be the right link
               | 
               | https://daylightco.gorgias.help/en-US#article-493382
               | 
               | (points to the section where you can see videos)
        
             | stefanha wrote:
             | Thank you! This quick overview is helpful:
             | https://player.vimeo.com/video/922512661
        
               | HenryBemis wrote:
               | It looks like the speed of the video is at 1.25 or
               | something like that. The hand/finger moves kinda un-
               | naturally. Is it just me?
               | 
               | Either way, it looks great. I do watch some YT vids, but
               | I focus on the audio (i.e. watching some urgent news on
               | Sky News (live) - video detail is not as important when
               | something very bad has happened).
        
           | qq66 wrote:
           | I've tried it and it's extraordinary. Is it worth it, at this
           | price, to you? That's something only you can answer. But it's
           | unlike anything you've ever seen. I agree that it needs to be
           | seen to be understood and hopefully they can get in retail
           | outlets at some point.
        
         | jojule wrote:
         | I would love to see terminal/unix being part of the story. I
         | realize that one can install Termux, but telling the story
         | without it would be super attractive for developers. It would
         | also further differentiate from iPad.
         | 
         | Any thoughts on this for us developers?
        
         | mikhailt wrote:
         | What's your refund policy if we don't like it? There's no
         | mention of refund/return on the page at all.
         | 
         | Thanks.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | full refund if you dont like it
           | 
           | its vulnerable for us as a small startup on a shoestring
           | budget to offer this, but it is the right thing to offer
           | 
           | (sorry we will update the page to add details to
           | refund/return!)
        
         | divan wrote:
         | Any chance of the A4 size device and higher DPI in the future?
         | Will pay any money for that.
         | 
         | A4 e-ink has considerable audience that doesn't know they need
         | it - people who read papers. All the academia is formatted for
         | A4 and stored in PDFs, which is pretty unreadable even on 10".
         | People literally print them on paper to read.
         | 
         | I currently enjoying A4-sized Boox Tab X and it's a game
         | changer, as I read a lot of papers and want to read more
         | outside. Love it so much, and having Android is important
         | (instead of some own walled OS), as I can sync my papers via
         | ReadCube Papers app. I also tried to use it as a monitor for
         | coding, but even with their superrefresh technology refresh
         | rate is still a problem.
        
           | dmos62 wrote:
           | I do use a newer boox android eink tablet for coding via
           | termux and ssh. Great for my needs. I wonder how this
           | compares.
        
         | brcmthrowaway wrote:
         | Did you build the display yourself.
        
           | msephton wrote:
           | This was also my question, and I found what seems to be the
           | answer. It's not quite definitive enough for me, but it's the
           | best I've found so far.
           | 
           | > Note: it's 60fps epaper, not off the shelf Eink. We spent
           | years developing what we think is the best epaper display in
           | the world and it's exclusively manufactured by our display
           | factory in Japan.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | yes
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | Could you please answer my question? Here, without typing it
         | again:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40459804
        
           | msephton wrote:
           | it's not eink
        
         | mikhailt wrote:
         | I watched the videos here: https://daylightco.gorgias.help/en-
         | US#article-509983
         | 
         | But it looks like it suffers from backlight bleeding if the
         | screen brightness is at medium or full. I'm a bit concerned
         | about that, can you help explain why that is happening.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | those videos were shot on pre-production units. we may still
           | not be perfect, but it should be a lot better on our most
           | recent / PVT / production units
           | 
           | we'll update the videos once launch calms down!
        
         | thot_experiment wrote:
         | Can I run my own software on it? I would love to buy an epaper
         | portable of some sort, but the fact that they're all locked
         | down is a no go. One day I'll live my dream of vim in the
         | forest grove.
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | yup yes, we will release a bootloader unlock tool so you can
           | do whatever you want
        
             | dugite-code wrote:
             | If you really do this it would be a fantastic incentive for
             | me. Just knowing the community can tinker makes a product
             | feel more my own rather than "rented" like some systems out
             | there.
        
             | evanphx wrote:
             | Upon hearing this (and seeing the software that you've got
             | listed on the website) I went and bought one. Looks great!
        
             | thot_experiment wrote:
             | I would sign up for a mailing list for when this is
             | available, I will probably actually buy one if it's android
             | with root.
        
             | pcdoodle wrote:
             | This will be a "killer feature" for the crowd here for many
             | reasons.
             | 
             | This product would also make for a classy home automation
             | tablet.
        
             | ddingus wrote:
             | THANK YOU!
             | 
             | There is so much hardware out there people could be hacking
             | on, improving, repressing all wasted due to difficulty
             | loading new code.
             | 
             | A coworker was given a SONY e-ink device. We quite like it,
             | but the included firmware is limited and dependent on a
             | windows app that leaves a lot to be desired.
             | 
             | This is early hardware that was given the SONY treatment.
             | That means great enclosure and ergonomics, but also
             | conservative use of the display and goofy proprietary
             | interfaces.
             | 
             | Would not take much to make the device a lot more useful.
             | 
             | One day, we will circle around and be talking about these
             | already solid devices and how in-demand they remain despite
             | their age because of your great decision.
             | 
             | Sidebar: I really want one, but am price constrained at the
             | moment. (Too bad, so sad for me!)
             | 
             | Will the production models see an equally open
             | configuration?
             | 
             | Hope so. Thanks again.
        
           | lights0123 wrote:
           | I've used vim from the reMarkable and a C interpreter in a
           | root shell when my laptop was broken. On-screen keyboard
           | wasn't the best experience though
        
           | JoelMcCracken wrote:
           | I haven't done a ton of usage outdoors, but my boox max lumi
           | works for this. IIUC the android it runs is "unlocked" so I
           | think you could use it as a computer if you wanted. I use it
           | as a tablet and a monitor.
        
         | funksta wrote:
         | Big reMarkable 2 fan here, and it's very intriguing to see some
         | competition to traditional eInk!
         | 
         | Coming from the rM2, my immediate concerns are display density,
         | and impact of the light on writing feel (both reMarkable and
         | Ratta claim that feel suffers with the extra space between the
         | pen tip and display).
         | 
         | Also as someone who makes a lot of pdf-based tools for the
         | reMarkable, I'd love to see a video or details about the built-
         | in pdf (and epub, hopefully!) reader
        
           | boochiboo12 wrote:
           | 1) remarkable & ratta are traditional off the shelf eink and
           | have to use a frontlight (above the display) which has many
           | tradeoffs
           | 
           | 2) daylight actually uses microperforations in our LivePaper
           | display, so we're able to use a backlight, which in our
           | opinion is superior in multiple ways
           | 
           | one of which, is what you're describing! our backlight doesnt
           | affect writing feel or distance from pen tip to display!
           | 
           | (also way better contrast with BLU on with backlight)
           | 
           | 3) thats awesome! feel free to reach out if you want to
           | collaborate, we want to build the best PDF experiences out
           | there as we're serious about knowledge work
           | 
           | anjan at daylightcomputer.com
           | 
           | we will share more details about our pdf reader later this
           | summer when we do an official software launch!
        
             | funksta wrote:
             | Very cool! Thank you, I will be following closely and may
             | convince myself to join Batch 3 :) And will probably reach
             | out in a few days (I'm sure you're quite busy right now!)
        
           | e-_pusher wrote:
           | Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this device.
           | 
           | The problem with eink tablets is that they must use front
           | light, and not backlight due to how eink works. This means
           | there is an extra layer in front of the layer where the
           | pixels are, which causes parallax effects which makes writing
           | feel fake. This is (likely) why remarkable deleted the
           | frontlight from their product.
           | 
           | Whereas with the daylight tablet, we have a trans reflective
           | display and a backlight. Since the backlight layer is behind
           | the layer where the pixels are, the parallax does not suffer.
           | 
           | I find the experience of writing with a Wacom EMR pen on mine
           | very pleasing :)
        
             | bloopernova wrote:
             | I was really impressed by the Kindle Scribe pen input. I
             | don't suppose you've compared that and the Daylight side by
             | side?
             | 
             | Actually that might make an interesting video, going
             | through basic workflows on different tablets.
        
             | funksta wrote:
             | I did not pick up on the frontlight/backlight distinction
             | when reading the overview, thanks! Seems like some very
             | novel tech here, I'd love to see more technical details
             | when they're revealed
        
         | crhicko wrote:
         | Will there be any additional cost like a subscription to use
         | the features of the device?
        
         | htk wrote:
         | Congratulations on the new tech, looks impressive! Any plans of
         | developing monitors or portable displays to use with a
         | laptop/smartphone in the sunlight?
        
         | darreninthenet wrote:
         | What connectivity will it have? Specifically asking about
         | iCloud and Dropbox...
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | It sounds like it can run any Android app, so Dropbox should
           | definitely work.
        
         | d--b wrote:
         | Please, tell me there's a phone coming along. Light Phone made
         | a mistake not going Android. You totally nailed it with that
         | casually dropped Spotify icon in that shot!
         | 
         | I personally have zero use for a tablet. But if I can have an
         | eink phone, with all the authentication apps I need to connect
         | to work and do banking (and maps and Spotify), I'll drop that
         | iPhone that is frying the brains of my kids instantly.
        
           | jadbox wrote:
           | See the Minimal E-ink phone
        
             | op12op12 wrote:
             | They were still making major design changes just one week
             | ago (first completely removing, then providing a front-
             | facing camera option after previously changing the screen
             | dimensions and device form factor). There's basically no
             | way it ships on their timeline (currently Sept 2024), if it
             | ships at all. They nailed the slick marketing, but have
             | been full of nonsensical timelines and promises.
        
           | aprilnya wrote:
           | They commented on Twitter saying they'll use profits from the
           | tablet towards making a phone
        
           | dmicah wrote:
           | The Boox Palma doesn't have a cell connection but is a phone-
           | sized Android based e-paper tablet.
        
         | jelder wrote:
         | Sell me a massive desktop e-ink display with USB-C input. I
         | want to code on this.
        
           | eli wrote:
           | https://shop.dasung.com ?
        
         | 999900000999 wrote:
         | Congratulations on the launch, what was your hardware journey
         | like. Did you have a hard time raising capital to manufacure
         | prototypes.
         | 
         | I'm working on a small hobbyist project right now,and actually
         | getting it built hasn't been fun.
         | 
         | Would love to hear your advice.
        
         | a1o wrote:
         | Can you make a screen to replace the one from Gameboy using
         | your technology?
        
         | jimmysong wrote:
         | As one of the beta testers, let me just say that I _really_
         | like this device. It 's very different than a kindle, kobo or
         | reMarkable in that the refresh rate really makes a big
         | difference. When I show this device to people, I show them how
         | quickly zooming in on a PDF is. It's way faster and more
         | responsive than any e-ink screen and it's way less addicting
         | than the typical laptop, phone or tablet.
         | 
         | I'm attempting to make this device my main driver over the next
         | few months and while the ecosystem isn't exactly mature yet,
         | most android apps just work out of the box and I've found
         | myself doing a lot more reading, either through an e-reading
         | app (Lithium), PDF reader or Instapaper. I have X, Primal,
         | Telegram and many other apps installed, but I don't go to them
         | nearly as much. The device really is a lot more human centered
         | and it makes for a much more intentional device.
        
         | bloopernova wrote:
         | I've been impressed with the Kindle Scribe I recently got. The
         | drawing and note taking is really nice. However, you have to
         | email yourself PDFs to get the information out of the tablet!
         | 
         | Will we be able to get data off the tablet easily? Will there
         | be documented APIs or other automation available?
        
         | liendolucas wrote:
         | Is it 100% open source? Or is it a device that I'm going to be
         | locked in like mobile phones? Are any chances that the price
         | goes down? I think now this is a factor that prevents me from
         | buying it.
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | I bought a remarkable. But then a 2 years later had to sell it
         | because my kid was running around and fiddling with my things.
         | I could give my kid the Kindle and will have peace of mind that
         | he can't break, even if he tries. Remarkable is just need a
         | drop on the floor.
         | 
         | How rugged and heavy is your tablet? If it's easily breakable,
         | do you have any future plans to make a tiny, small phone sized
         | light weight paper tablet which one can pull out of pocket like
         | a notepad write stuff and put back, and most importantly have
         | no care in the world of breaking it?
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | So this is a trans-reflective LCD screen?
         | 
         | Does it invert the colors when backlit?
         | 
         | It's about 50% heavier than rM2; the battery is almost triple
         | the capacity of rM2; I assume these are related and both due to
         | the use of LCD over eInk?
         | 
         | How many shades of gray?
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | > And we built a whole android tablet around it.
         | 
         | What is the reason it isn't worth your while to sell the
         | display seperately so other devices can be built using it?
        
           | coolspot wrote:
           | Much lower margin if you just sell a component.
        
             | ddingus wrote:
             | Still, once their display partner is ramped up, lower
             | margin is still margin. Get it out there through Waveshare
             | or someone similar.
             | 
             | I have purchased and made use of several raw displays from
             | them. All, but the big e-ink one have been great to work
             | with. That one has some proprietary interface to unlock the
             | real speed potential and individuals cannot sign the NDA.
             | Grrr..
        
         | trelane wrote:
         | Is the source available? Is it locked, or can we use our own
         | firmware?
        
         | epaperq wrote:
         | Can you post a photo or video of a side-by-side comparison of
         | the Remarkable 2 and the Daylight Computer?
         | 
         | Right now it's hard to actually tell from your marketing
         | materials what the screen looks like
        
         | llm_trw wrote:
         | Will you offer a 13 inch version?
         | 
         | What about computer screens?
         | 
         | And a color version?
         | 
         | For background I have a boox max, a dasung 253 bw and dasung
         | color 253. Happy to spend even more money on a new generation
         | of devices.
        
         | JoshTriplett wrote:
         | How's the battery usage? You mentioned that it's not bistable
         | and doesn't retain an image on power-off; does that mean the
         | display requires non-trivial power even while displaying a
         | static image? One of the big selling points of my reMarkable 2
         | is the incredible battery life.
         | 
         | Any plans for color? I know it'd be a sacrifice of brightness.
         | I'm still interested despite the limitations.
        
         | seekage wrote:
         | Instant buy. Love the design and mission. Where can I get the
         | wooden stand?
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | FYI there's a typo on the product page, "blacklight" instead of
         | "backlight". I assume that's not a branding thing since it's
         | referred to as a backlight elsewhere.
        
         | endofreach wrote:
         | Respect. Not easy to do hardware. I will order one for sure to
         | try it out. Very interesting.
         | 
         | A few questions that i hope to get an answer to:
         | 
         | How did you finance the company? How much money did you spend
         | on R&D & production etc?
         | 
         | What was the initial idea you had? What were the biggest
         | challenges before you knew for sure you got the final product?
        
         | mushufasa wrote:
         | > We developed our own custom epaper display tech we call
         | LivePaper. We focused on solving the tradeoffs RLCDs
         | traditionally have - around reflectance %, metallic-look / not
         | Paperlike enough, viewing angle, white state, rainbow mura,
         | parallax, resolution, size, lack of quality backlight, etc.
         | 
         | Would you license this to others at a more affordable rate than
         | e-ink? Lenovo has some e-ink 2-in-1 "thinkbook" laptops and
         | might be a good partner... I'm sure you're considered this
         | already.
         | 
         | Personally I am sold on the 'low distraction and eye strain' of
         | e-ink, and would be keen on buying a computer with that
         | display. That said, I'm more interested in a general computer
         | running a general operating system (ubuntu or any linux) if I'm
         | using something for daily work. Even if your own operating
         | system can do these things I would be concerned with edge-cases
         | for software I need for work, so for professional daily usage I
         | need an OS that is battle-tested, and not based on a locked-
         | down sandboxed mobile system like android where I'd have to
         | fight the OS to do what I want.
         | 
         | I do own and use a remarkable, so I'm probably in the target
         | market. I only use the remarkable for note taking, it's handy
         | for freehand sketching visual ideas or concepts digitally,
         | where typing or any sort of computer drawing with a mouse may
         | add friction that gets in the way of getting the ideas down
         | onto paper. The main advantage over paper is so I don't need to
         | worry about misplacing the pieces of draft paper afterwards,
         | when I revisit an idea months later.
         | 
         | I definitely don't want a tablet for typing code. If I'm going
         | to carry around an external keyboard, I might as well just get
         | a thin-and-light laptop.
         | 
         | I almost bought the aforementioned thinkbook with the e-ink
         | display. Main reason I didn't was that I was worried about
         | compatibility issues if I ran linux, since it's designed for
         | windows.
        
           | yencabulator wrote:
           | I bet people would pay good money for a Framework display
           | module that's usable eInk. (Assuming it can use the same
           | display connector.)
           | 
           | https://frame.work/products/display-kit?v=FRANGX0001
           | 
           | https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86.
           | ..
        
         | slashtom wrote:
         | Concerned a little bit about the lower DPI (190), how does
         | aliasing compare to lets say Remarkable 2 (224). I find the
         | Kindle Scribe is at 300 DPI.
         | 
         | Handwriting with the Scribe is amazing to me, hoping to see or
         | understand how it compares.
        
         | robbiep wrote:
         | Congratulations! This looks awesome! Very excited to get my
         | hands on one!
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | Can it be rooted and boot unlocked?
        
       | dmitrygr wrote:
       | More or less the same screen tech as some old Sony PalmOS PDAs
       | like SJ20 from the 2000s: Transflective greyscale LCD.
       | 
       | Glad they are making a comeback. They were nice. I still use an
       | SJ20 to read ebooks for this very reason. Plus, they can be had
       | for $10 on eBay.
        
         | e-_pusher wrote:
         | Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this project.
         | 
         | Thanks for your comment! I grew up using a Palm III that was
         | already super old when I had it in high school. But years
         | later, my fond memories of the sense of focus I had using it
         | became a major inspiration for deciding to join Anjan's team
         | for this project :)
        
           | msephton wrote:
           | I'd be interested to hear more about the specific screen tech
           | and the how it compares with the ~2000s.
        
       | mattkevan wrote:
       | Yeah this looks like a cool device. I love my Remarkable, but the
       | lack of backlight and slow refresh rate means it's not as
       | versatile as it could be.
       | 
       | A tablet that has similar screen properties to eink but with a
       | backlight and 60fps would be much more usable, especially at
       | night.
        
         | edderkopp wrote:
         | Indeed. Another advantage of this tablet over Remarkable is
         | that it should be possible to set up synchronization with many
         | more cloud services, including Nextcloud. Remarkable is limited
         | to the biggest commercial cloud providers.
        
       | cwrichardkim wrote:
       | Can you tell us a bit more about the OS? does it resemble stock
       | android or would it be unrecognizable for most people?
       | 
       | Tiny bit of feedback: the cart doesn't make it clear what the
       | founder's edition is
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | it can pretty easily become / look like stock android if you
         | switch out our launcher for one of your preference
         | 
         | we also gonna come out with a bootloader unlock tool so you can
         | customize it to your hearts content
         | 
         | goal is to be hacker/DIY friendly.. we'll get better and better
         | with this over time
        
       | kepano wrote:
       | I've been dreaming of a device like this to run Obsidian on. I
       | made an e-ink theme for Obsidian[1] but the refresh rate and
       | ghosting of e-ink makes it less appealing to work with. I am
       | curious to see if this device will solve some of those issues.
       | 
       | [1] https://minimal.guide/features/eink
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | we have a couple units set aside for devs to optimize their
         | apps to the daylight, email me and we can try to get you one!
         | 
         | many of our early testers / customers loved using it as an
         | obsidian typewriter
         | 
         | anjan 'at' daylightcomputer.com
        
           | kepano wrote:
           | I preordered one already but will do!
        
           | ghotli wrote:
           | In one of the pictures on the site was it sitting on a dock
           | with a keyboard. I use obsidian and would use this as an
           | obsidian typewriter. If I order is it just the tablet itself
           | or more? I presume it runs Linux so any keyboard that would
           | work in that environment would work with the device? Even
           | better if I can ssh into it.
           | 
           | Edit: I see elsewhere in this thread that it's android. If I
           | can adb shell into it and push my own custom launcher to it,
           | I'll buy one today :)
        
       | ant6n wrote:
       | I dunno, after the steaming pile that the Dasun Color Monitor
       | turned out to be (some notes of mine here [1]), I'm kind of weary
       | of this e-ink thing. The problem isn't just ghosting and
       | slowness, I could deal with that. It's also reflective, very poor
       | contrast, bad dithering, awful color reproduction.
       | 
       | One would have to hold it in ones hand first.
       | 
       | ...very cool looking project though.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40364254
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | we're not eink like them! see my comment here :)
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40457491
        
       | vineyardlabs wrote:
       | Any more specific numbers on battery life? I see it says "days"
       | on the website, but I'm curious if there's an hours number with
       | usage condition specified (ie, screen on, reading a book, etc.)
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | still doing more testing, but some test results:
         | 
         | - reading without amber backlight: 67 hours - youtube without
         | amber backlight: 30 hours - reading with 30% amber brightness:
         | 30 hours
        
           | vineyardlabs wrote:
           | That sounds fantastic, thanks.
        
         | e-_pusher wrote:
         | Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this device.
         | 
         | Anjan can comment further to see if the team these days has any
         | further optimizations in store, but with my personal Daylight
         | tablet anecdotally, these days I am charging it every other
         | week, and using it for 1-2 hours a day to browse the web and
         | read PDFs. I usually have a low backlight setting on it.
        
           | vineyardlabs wrote:
           | Awesome, thanks!
        
       | ax0ar wrote:
       | I got super hyped first when I saw all the details. I use a Boox
       | Page and love the device. This would be a super nice addition
       | which could act as a fully functional tablet.
       | 
       | But then I saw the price tag, and that it's only 190 ppi. That
       | killed it immediately for me. I hated the first few generations
       | of Kindle because of the low resolution display. I think it's
       | unbearable in an e-ink display. And the price is a bit outrageous
       | for what it offers..
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | i think your feedback is fair. if you're open to a few
         | considerations:
         | 
         | - with monochrome pixels (ie no RGB subpixels), resolution is
         | not really apples to apples.. things look a lot crisper
         | subjectively than their objective resolution spec
         | 
         | i think a bunch of early customers have tweeted out their
         | reactions to resolution/crispness. id encourage you to ask them
         | for their feedback if you were still curious
         | 
         | not claiming its perfect, just that its not as bad as you think
         | it is.
         | 
         | (PS we chose this resolution specifically cuz it results in a
         | larger aperture ratio which enables a brighter screen.. we had
         | other experiments at 220-240ppi, but we couldn't really tell a
         | difference in resolution, and the brightness difference was
         | palpable)
         | 
         | PPS on price - not much we can do here, extremely difficult to
         | get even the price we did on low batch totally new custom
         | displays.. we're proud of what we're able to do, but we
         | understand there's a tesla roadster effect of sorts.. starts
         | our expensive, and successive generations will ride the cost
         | curve down tremendously
         | 
         | but cant get there without early supporters. so you choose
         | anon! more economical samsung, or more pricey (but worth it?)
         | indies like us!
        
       | dot5xdev wrote:
       | I'm a current owner of a Ratta Supernote A5X. I use the Supernote
       | all the time. I previously had a Remarkable 2, but thankfully
       | Remarkable added a subscription which made me look elsewhere and
       | led me to the Supernote.
       | 
       | This seems right up my alley. Although, $800 seems steep.
       | 
       | The new Supernote A5X2 is due this year... at probably half the
       | price? Granted it doesn't have the 60fps display, but it
       | definitely has a bunch of other features. Is the 60fps worth $400
       | more?
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | you're right, for some folks it's not gonna be worth the price
         | increase
         | 
         | we understand that, and we hope we can bring the price down
         | with scale
         | 
         | for some of the folks who its worth it for, some of the reasons
         | are: - onenote or noteshelf or goodnotes on eink working
         | without lag makes it worth it - obsidian or google docs or your
         | terminal working without latency - you end up reading way more
         | substacks, articles, blogs, things in the browser - dragon ball
         | z on eink is fun :)
        
       | sevg wrote:
       | @boochiboo12
       | 
       | Looks like a really interesting device! I have one question about
       | one of the taglines on the home page "A distraction free space".
       | What are the things inherent to the OS that make it distraction
       | free? Is it Android with notifications ripped out?
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | the simplest mod is notifications off by default
         | 
         | but we've got a bunch of things in the pipeline also
         | 
         | for example, one sec like 'app delaying / intentional friction'
         | functionalities built into the OS
        
       | fuzztester wrote:
       | I always preferred amber to green when using monochrome PC
       | monitors way back.
        
       | garyrob wrote:
       | My biggest need is for an ebook reader. What abilities does it
       | have in that area? Having trouble finding info on that on the web
       | site.
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | - run the kindle app (android app) - run epub readers like
         | lithium reader - use our PDF reader or others like adobe - go
         | into the browser and download books - use google play books and
         | its beautiful page flip animation lol
        
           | garyrob wrote:
           | Excellent! Thanks!
        
       | antisthenes wrote:
       | Without going into pricing details, what's the longevity of an
       | e-ink device at 60fps?
       | 
       | As far as I understand it, e-ink has essentially a "finite"
       | albeit a very large number of refreshes available, when moving
       | the "nodules" to display different images.
       | 
       | Has the issue been solved? E.g. will users be able to get at
       | least 5-7 years of heavy usage out of this device? Or will this
       | become e-waste after 2-3 years?
        
         | naikrovek wrote:
         | It's not eink, it's a reflective lcd whose design tradeoffs
         | were tweaked for what this manufacturer wanted.
         | 
         | While technically it is an lcd, reflective lcds are extremely
         | readable in sunlight and use very little power to maintain the
         | image on screen. An epaper/eink display uses zero power to
         | maintain the display and uses electrostatic manipulation to
         | refresh the screen.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Is there an independent review, preferably video?
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | coming! should be a bunch of unofficial ones on twitter
        
       | beckthompson wrote:
       | Man looked super cool but its just too expensive for me. I hope
       | you guys are successful so your price point can go down a little
       | so I can buy one in the future!
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | IMO, the software will be the most important part of the device,
       | not necessarily the screen.
       | 
       | What makes the Remarkable great is that it's functionality (while
       | limited) makes for an excellent experience.
       | 
       | Any more details on what apps will be built in and designed for
       | the device? (not just 3rd party Android apps that will feel like
       | any other tablet).
       | 
       | Also - I would order this immediately to support more e-ink
       | devices, but the display is too small for me - at least 13" to
       | display full page documents.
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | we've built our own PDF parser / renderer, so we have a pretty
         | good beta PDF reader app we're building
         | 
         | next up would be epub reader / support
         | 
         | and then building our own notetaker & typewriter app (though
         | google docs, lex.page, IA writer are pretty good)
         | 
         | and many more services and apps, like actually finally good
         | handwriting recognition
        
           | goatking wrote:
           | Why PDF first? Isn't reading Ebooks (in ebook format) the
           | main use case for such devices?
        
             | KeplerBoy wrote:
             | Once you're approaching regular paper size, PDF is king.
             | 
             | There are just so, so many documents out there which were
             | laid out with A4 paper in mind, which can't really be
             | converted to any other format with reasonable effort. Just
             | think of every research paper published ever.
             | 
             | People who are primarily reading books aren't really in the
             | market for this kind of device. You can read books just
             | fine on any old kindle and it's far more comfortable on a
             | smaller, lighter device.
        
             | turtlebits wrote:
             | Likely to focus on use cases for their display tech. Ebooks
             | are already solved and faster refresh won't meaningfully
             | improve the experience over other devices.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Why not use existing libraries, like Poppler?
        
         | msephton wrote:
         | Obsidian already announced an update to support it.
         | 
         | - https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1793691977642561952
         | 
         | - https://www.threads.net/@kepano/post/C7UeqwtvHJe
        
         | CodeWriter23 wrote:
         | I had a remarkable for like a day before I retuned it. Couldn't
         | write-to-text into a PDF. Could type into a PDF or could write-
         | to-text in their writing app. But not in a PDF. It was also
         | intolerably slow.
        
         | eli wrote:
         | Aren't there already Android tablets with eink screens?
        
           | CrazyStat wrote:
           | Yes. I have a Boox, and I'm quite happy with it. I don't use
           | many android apps, but the killer app for me (why I got it
           | over a Remarkable or Kindle Scribe) is being able to run a
           | Zotero-compatible app (Zoo for Zotero) with bidirectional
           | sync for reading and marking up PDFs.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | There are but OP doesn't appear to be using e-ink, it's much
           | too fast to be that. I would guess it's an unorthodox form of
           | LCD display.
        
             | CrazyStat wrote:
             | It's reflective LCD (RLCD).
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | But with a backlight, which is novel I think?
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | KOReader is great for Eink devices. I used it both on my
         | Remarkable and Kindle. It's made for paper like displays. It
         | already has an android version.
        
       | localfirst wrote:
       | this is good enough to game on
        
       | faxmeyourcode wrote:
       | To me the videos are absolutely mind blowing, congratulations on
       | the launch.
       | 
       | It feels like a leap forward in an area of tech that has totally
       | stagnated (e-ink). I think this device is tackling a few hard
       | problems all at once. Well done and I wish you luck.
        
       | BadHumans wrote:
       | I need this to have a dedicated drawing app with layers for me to
       | even consider this. None of the eink tablets right now have good
       | drawing apps even if you can technically do it.
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | you can try concepts on our thing! its a pretty damn good
         | drawing app / procreate alt
        
       | msephton wrote:
       | I have to see that the way you're managing the pre-orders and
       | batches on your website is exemplary. Congrats to your web team!
        
       | heavyset_go wrote:
       | Is this running a forked kernel and do you plan on mainlining the
       | changes you made to Linux?
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | I am not an Android user, but I primarily rely on a cross-
       | platform note taking app that supports Android. Does Android with
       | this device support OS-native OCR to convert writing to text? I'm
       | curious if this is usable with Standard Notes.
       | 
       | I currently own and use a reMarkable 2 daily, and then transcribe
       | notes to Standard Notes when I'm near my computer. Would love
       | something that lets me skip the transcription step with the
       | advantages of e-ink / writing with a stylus.
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | standard notes has an android app you could use!
         | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.standardno...
         | 
         | and we're working on OS level native OCR
         | 
         | in the meantime you could use myscript nebo
         | 
         | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.myscript.n...
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | It looks like Nebo is an alternative note-taking app? I will
           | email the Standard Notes dev team and see if they are
           | planning to do the lift for OCR on this type of device. I see
           | upthread someone has mentioned Obsidian will do so.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | It would be nice for e-ink to eventually get better contrast than
       | this: https://daylightcomputer.com/_next/static/media/split-
       | compar...
        
         | boochiboo12 wrote:
         | our contrast can vary depending on the lighting envrionment,
         | its the nature of non lambertian reflective displays with
         | optical gain
         | 
         | most of the time its pretty good!
         | 
         | in dimmer environments, you can boost contrast by boosting the
         | backlight a bit
        
       | freitasm wrote:
       | I was just trying to order one. But only available to ship to a
       | limited list of countries.
        
       | danlitt wrote:
       | Why?! The point of eink is that it's slow refresh.
        
       | minzi wrote:
       | Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the size of the device?
       | Was it driven by cost considerations, preferences of the founding
       | team, something else?
       | 
       | I think it's a little too big for me, but I'm tempted.
        
       | edderkopp wrote:
       | What is included in the price in addition to the tablet itself?
       | Stylus? Cover?
       | 
       | Is it possible to fasten the stylus to the tablet/cover such that
       | the stylus doesn't get lost easily?
       | 
       | If the stylus gets lost, is it possible to purchase a new one?
        
       | codingpanic wrote:
       | Love that you are calling a tablet what it really is: a computer.
       | 
       | Now for a crazy question: does the Daylight Computer support an
       | external full color display via a usb-c dock? Color when you need
       | it... epaper when you don't.
        
       | mintplant wrote:
       | Epilepsy warning if you're on Firefox! The page background
       | rapidly flashes between black to white:
       | 
       | https://streamable.com/85wbac
       | 
       | The flashing is much more rapid than shows up in my screen
       | recording.
       | 
       | (Firefox 126.0 on Windows 11)
        
       | firstSpeaker wrote:
       | Is there any video/comparison for the software functionality with
       | the likes of Kindle Scribeb, ReMarkable, etc. for note taking?
        
       | heliostatic wrote:
       | Ordered. Can you recommend a stand that has worked well? Love the
       | vision.
        
       | dash2 wrote:
       | Very interested to see this. I have a Supernote which has passed
       | the basic gadget test: I still use it regularly after the initial
       | few weeks. But it's true that it is limited to (a) taking notes
       | in meetings and (b) reading and annotating PDFs. I wonder what
       | more I would do with a truly fast screen.
        
       | Tijdreiziger wrote:
       | I'm only able to see the page for a split second before it throws
       | a full-screen 'application error'.
        
       | gillygize wrote:
       | It looks like it currently doesn't ship to Japan. Any plans to
       | include Japan in the future? I would have pre-ordered already if
       | it did.
        
       | lastdong wrote:
       | One thing that disappointed me with rM2 was the broken promise of
       | developing your apps, rm2 became pretty closed (or not as easy
       | and accessible) ecosystem, and I think it suffered. Most people
       | on rM1 praised their DIY and hackability. Daydream looks
       | beautiful, I hope they incentivise apps creation for the everyday
       | engineer, who likes to tinker in spare time - it is Android
        
       | yencabulator wrote:
       | Android 13, at a time when 15 will likely be production ready in
       | a few months, seems to hint at a risk of not getting updates.
        
       | zbowling wrote:
       | Sol:OS... it's just Android but we have to call it an OS I guess
        
       | 698969 wrote:
       | Where do I invest?
        
       | yismail wrote:
       | product aside, I thought the design of the website and the
       | branding was quite sleek, kudos to the team.
        
       | CarVac wrote:
       | Would be neat to have this display for the Framework 13...
        
       | RistrettoMike wrote:
       | Looks great!
       | 
       | I have a Boox tablet from a few years ago that I'm still using
       | sporadically, and can't quite justify replacing yet, but if I was
       | in the market this would be very, very appealing. Congrats to the
       | team on the launch! :)
        
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