[HN Gopher] We're ending our Samsung collaboration
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       We're ending our Samsung collaboration
        
       Author : skilled
       Score  : 248 points
       Date   : 2024-05-23 15:41 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ifixit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ifixit.com)
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | Well that's disappointing from Samsung. But I'm glad iFixit
       | actually followed through and decided it wasn't working out,
       | rather than just declaring victory and walking away.
       | 
       | You've also gotta think that surely they notified Samsung before
       | the announcement and gave them some time to try to salvage the
       | arrangement before ending it. The fact that Samsung _didn 't_
       | suggests it's really not high on their priorities list, even with
       | the expected PR backlash.
        
         | wepple wrote:
         | Unfortunately, I highly doubt there will be any material PR
         | backlash.
         | 
         | Ask 100 Samsung owners on the street how the ifixit repair
         | ability relationship impacts them, and 99 will ask what ifixit
         | is, and what repairability means. The other one is too stoned
         | to answer.
        
       | santoshalper wrote:
       | The Right to Repair people remind me a lot of the Free Software
       | people. Which is to say, fundamentally correct, but struggling to
       | get consumers to care enough to influence purchasing decisions.
       | 
       | I don't have the answer to this, but somehow getting consumers to
       | factor in repairability is going to be key to creating the kind
       | of leverage that can drive real change in the industry.
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | IMO phones are the area I care about repair the least. By the
         | time the phone is 5~ years old, I'm going to want the new one
         | anyway. Where repairs would be much more useful is general
         | household appliances where the model 20 years ago was just as
         | good if not better than the one today. I'm never going to want
         | to upgrade my blender, but when the plastic parts snap, I want
         | it to be easy to get a replacement.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | With a phone from 5 years ago sure it's feeling its age, but
           | that number keeps going up as the functional differences
           | between each phone generation shrinks.
           | 
           | Replacing the battery on year 3 makes a huge difference in
           | how long you would want to keep a phone around for.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | And if the maker offers a free service to replace the
             | battery with the purchase, I'm okay with it. Would it be
             | nice to remove the battery to keep "them" from listening?
             | Probably, but "they" are still listening through the TV,
             | the laptops, and that chip in the back of my mouth so, meh
        
               | catlikesshrimp wrote:
               | TV (fixed) the laptops (fixed), and that chip in the back
               | of my mouth so (erm...)
               | 
               | I still failed because some moron gifted an echo 5 to
               | someone who refuses to let it go.
        
             | BizarreByte wrote:
             | I have a Windows Phone and it's a decade old. Very outside
             | the norm to still use it, but phones can last a long time
             | from a hardware perspective if they're allowed too.
             | 
             | My 830's saving grace has been the ease of changing
             | batteries. If the battery was internal I'd have tossed it
             | years ago.
        
               | BozeWolf wrote:
               | Does it still get software updates? Not just the apps,
               | but also the operating system. If not, you definitely
               | should not use it anymore.
               | 
               | Not only because of security issues in software, but also
               | because of possibly revoked certificates. And newer,
               | safer, web protocols. Also strange if your bank still
               | supports it.
               | 
               | Hardware might be fine when it comes to being speedy
               | enough, but may also have issues.A digital device still
               | working is just not good enough anymore.
        
               | BizarreByte wrote:
               | It doesn't get updates, but I'm not overly concerned.
               | It's running WP10 and security would be a bigger concern
               | if any apps supported it to begin with.
               | 
               | I don't bank on my phone beyond checking my balance with
               | SMS. If I need to actually move money around I'd rather
               | do it on my computer.
               | 
               | The phone is used for calling, texting, mp3s, the
               | weather, the calendar/reminders, and very occasional
               | maps. I do have my gmail setup via imap with is probably
               | the biggest risk I actually take.
               | 
               | I've written half a dozen of my own programs for specific
               | things I need, but otherwise there's nothing installed.
               | 
               | I know there's some risk but I'm well aware of it and
               | accept it.
        
             | rcMgD2BwE72F wrote:
             | I just replace a OnePlus6T from 2018 with a brand new Pixel
             | 8 and I regret it.
             | 
             | The 6T had the latest LineageOS and the P8 has GrapheneOS.
             | Both have the latest Android but there's nothing on the
             | Pixel that's better than the OnePlus.
             | 
             | 6 years and no noticeable differences in terms of battery,
             | performance, screen, ergonomy, etc.
             | 
             | I should have stuck with the old one but I was convinced
             | things were still progressing. My bad.
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | To be fair the OnePlus 6T was an actual flagship of its
               | time while the pixel 8 isn't. It's more of a midrange
               | phone.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | It launched at $549. So basically the same price after
               | inflation. If the tier of the Pixel is lower, that's a
               | problem not an excuse.
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | I'm talking about flagship HW, not price. Price can be
               | whatever it has nothing to do with the HW.
        
             | catlikesshrimp wrote:
             | I just want to add that security updates do matter.
             | 
             | I agree with everything.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Replacing the battery on a phone would make sense if it was
             | easy to do. But I can't get reasonable phones with a back
             | that comes off intentionally to replace a modular battery.
             | Which means I'm paying someone to unglue the back, replace
             | the battery, and reglue the back. Their time costs money,
             | so I'm thinking ~ $50 for the battery and ~ $50 for their
             | time, plus my time to get there and back and wait, and I'm
             | halfway to a $200 phone that's going to be way better than
             | my 3 year old $200 phone.
             | 
             | I don't like how disposable everything is, but labor costs
             | to repair are huge. I just got rid of a van because of a
             | failed head gasket, because it's too much work to get to
             | the not that expensive part.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | I find the time it takes to swap to a new phone is
               | significantly longer than the time it takes to get a new
               | battery. Making a battery swap a net time save.
        
           | pcdoodle wrote:
           | I'd love it if iPhone SE 2016 still got updates. I don't care
           | about the speed, just want Voice/SMS/Music run banking and
           | other low consumption apps.
           | 
           | It's still my dedicated MP3 player.
        
             | timoth wrote:
             | It does. But not beyond iOS 15. Most recent update: 15.8.2
             | a couple of months ago. Personally I'm really impressed
             | that Apple is still supporting an 8-year-old phone and it's
             | probably the main thing that has been tempting me to jump
             | ship from Android for a while. (Though it seems like
             | Android might be better on this in future.)
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | You'd be in the minority I think. Judging by the number of
           | phone screen repair shops and what not I see, phone repair is
           | one of the things that people really want. And that's just
           | screen repairs, and not the numerous other things people
           | generally talk about getting fixed.
           | 
           | On the flip side, you are the first person I know of talking
           | about about repairing your blender, and I've never seen a
           | blender repair shop. Larger home appliances, sure, but
           | blenders?
           | 
           | I'm not saying you are wrong to prioritize these things. Just
           | pointing out that you are an outlier.
        
             | Domenic_S wrote:
             | Small appliance repair is/used to be a thing, remember TV
             | repair shops? Vacuum repair shops I still see around
             | occasionally.
             | 
             | Problem is people buy a $25 hamilton beach blender that
             | doesn't make any financial sense to repair but makes huge
             | amounts of sense as an initial purchase. If you buy a $500
             | vitamix, you can keep it running forever with new parts,
             | but that's the same price as 20 of the cheap blender. And
             | blender technology isn't really advancing at a huge rate
             | compared to, say, cell phones.
        
               | ska wrote:
               | > And blender technology isn't really advancing at a huge
               | rate
               | 
               | That's part of it, but also the vitamix and hamilton
               | beach really have quite different capabilities. For most
               | peoples usage, it doesn't matter much, but the vitamix
               | (at least the core one) show their commercial kitchen
               | background.
               | 
               | The real problem is that there isn't anything much
               | between the $25 one and the $350 one. From a technical
               | point of view, there isn't any reason someone couldn't
               | produce a $90 one that was robust and repairable but less
               | powerful etc. than the vitamix. I dont' think i've ever
               | seen one - if you do find a $90 one it's essentially the
               | $25 one in a fancier looking shell.
               | 
               | The market, as they say, has spoken. In most cases you
               | are better off going for commercial suppliers if you want
               | longer life, repairability, etc., but often the only
               | things on offer there are way overkill for e.g. a home
               | kitchen.
               | 
               | Small appliance repair is alive and well in parts of the
               | world where it is easy to access parts supply close to
               | the source (i.e. you are paying roughly small batch
               | wholesale prices).
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | Phone screens are pretty easy to repair though. You just
             | drop it off at the Apple Store and they do it for you. Yes
             | it's expensive, but the screen is the biggest and probably
             | the hardest to manufacture part on the phone so it's going
             | to be expensive.
             | 
             | Yeah it would be nice if Apple provided in depth repair
             | guides and sold individual chips for cheaper repairs, but
             | realistically I don't think it's going to change all that
             | much vs other product categories.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > Yes it's expensive, but the screen is the biggest and
               | probably the hardest to manufacture part on the phone so
               | it's going to be expensive.
               | 
               | If it weren't glued in place and if they wouldn't tie
               | Face ID components _to the goddamn screen_ , it would be
               | far less expensive. I managed to break my iPhone 12
               | Mini's screen in a freak incident - the protection glass
               | is intact, but it shattered below it, right over the left
               | Face ID illuminator.
               | 
               | A new display + glass would clock in at 60-100EUR plus
               | maybe half an hour of time to do the replacement - but
               | that would break FaceID as the components are paired for
               | whatever reason. Apple's quote is 279EUR. What a fucking
               | joke!
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | The mainboard and FaceID sensor are paired so you can't
               | 'trick' the phone into letting you in with a dummy FaceID
               | sensor.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | That makes sense but why is this shit glued to the
               | screen? Every other phone has the camera, proximity
               | sensor and whatever installed in the main body or at
               | least makes it trivial to take off from the old screen
               | and replace in a new one.
               | 
               | Also... why is there any need for the FaceID sensor to be
               | paired? It's two LEDs illuminating the face from
               | different angles in infrared so the camera can create a
               | depth map. None of that needs a secure connection.
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | It makes the phone parts next to worthless on the
               | secondhand market, making it not worthwhile to steal the
               | phone and sell it for parts.
               | 
               | Hector Martin has some nice rants about right-to-repair
               | zealots and their lack of understanding as to why Apple
               | made the decisions they did.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | I agree with the zealots but there could be better ways -
               | for one, make the replacement screens "unpaired" by
               | default, maybe using a WORM to store keys, so people (or
               | repair shops) could still repair their phones with legit
               | replacement screens while "second hand" aka parted-out
               | displays would still be impeded.
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | I can assure you that stolen iPhones absolutely aren't
               | worthless. They are sent to various places where
               | extremely technically sophisticated groups are still able
               | to make at least 200$, sometimes much more, from a stolen
               | iPhone, which isn't much less than what it used to be
               | worth. In fact, phone thieves in many places only ever
               | made about 50-100$ from a stolen high end phone.
               | 
               | Phone theft is a billion dollar industry, and as Apple
               | tries to lock down parts, thieves adapted by forming far
               | more efficient logistics and by centralizing value
               | extraction from stolen phones. Apple's tactics haven't so
               | far made a big impact to a phone thief's incentives, and
               | I don't see it happening in the near future either.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | The complaint is that it's tied to the screen, not the
               | mainboard.
               | 
               | Pairing sensor and mainboard is fine as long as I can
               | reset it when I reset the phone.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > you are the first person I know of talking about about
             | repairing your blender, and I've never seen a blender
             | repair shop
             | 
             | In my town, there are several repair shops that fix small
             | appliances such as blenders. I've never used them, because
             | I fix my small appliances myself.
             | 
             | I can't stand throwing away machines that can be fixed and
             | put back into service. It seems so utterly wasteful.
        
           | CodeWriter23 wrote:
           | You can get 5 years of usable battery discharge/recharge out
           | of a phone, kudos to you!
        
             | mey wrote:
             | The primary reason I replaced my Pixel 4a was it going EoL
             | for security updates. The battery did get replaced once,
             | and it brought it back to life. I don't want a halo device,
             | I want something that is secure, functional, repairable and
             | cheap enough that if this portable slab of glass explodes I
             | am not that sad. The primary reason I replaced my device
             | with a Pixel 8 is for the 7 years of security updates.
             | 
             | Going from the 4a to the 8? Barely noticed a change in
             | functionality.
        
               | sumtechguy wrote:
               | I went from a galaxy s5 to s22. About 10 years in diff.
               | The functionality for me is nearly identical. Speed the
               | s22 is much snappier I guess. But not something I care
               | much about. I only replaced it because the touch screen
               | started acting up and security updates were non-existent.
               | I was able to keep the thing going for so long precisely
               | because I could swap out that battery easily. To replace
               | the newer ones involves a heat gun and a suction cup. And
               | as jerryrigeverything says 'glass is glass'.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | I used to be like this, but I don't sell my old phones, I
           | hand them down - and I'd love to be able to get parts for the
           | iPhones 6,8 and XR when they go off the wagon.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > By the time the phone is 5~ years old, I'm going to want
           | the new one anyway.
           | 
           | Fair enough. But there are also a fair number of people who,
           | like myself, would be pretty irritated to have to replace
           | their phone after only 5 years.
        
           | ornornor wrote:
           | Maybe a five year old phone isn't good enough for you, but it
           | might be for someone else. But if the screen can't be
           | repaired or the battery replaced, it will end up as ewaste
           | somewhere in a poor country polluting the world's air and
           | soil/water.
        
             | berkes wrote:
             | Which is why everyone should care about the right-to-
             | repair.
             | 
             | A phone that can be repaired, is worth something. For
             | ewaste you get EUR0 (some recycler may get a few bucks from
             | rare materials). For a phone that can have a second life,
             | you might get some EUR100. This is one reason why people
             | love iPhones: their value, second hand, remains rather
             | high.
        
         | sersi wrote:
         | The problem is that to be able to make a purchasing decision
         | toward repairability there must be actual choices that offer
         | better repairability.
         | 
         | That doesn't seem to be the case for phones unfortunately.
        
         | realusername wrote:
         | How would consumers know anyways, it's pretty hard to purchase
         | on repairability even us as experts.
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | > Which is to say, fundamentally correct, but struggling to get
         | consumers to care enough to influence purchasing decisions.
         | 
         | You're right that customers don't care about Free software and
         | yet it won. Free software has moved from a niche to dominating
         | the software marketplace. The linux kernel, GNU coreutils, gcc,
         | binutils - these are amazingly popular and keep getting ported
         | to new platforms. And of course, Open Source software is yet
         | more popular still.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | Free Software won because almost everyone, especially
           | businesses can benefit from it. who is going to benefit from
           | right to repair besides consumers and small repair shops?
        
         | schrijver wrote:
         | While right to repair is in part about getting consumers to
         | care it is just as much about getting regulators to care. They
         | can do things like force the availability of replacement parts
         | etc.
         | 
         | The right to repair movement seems to have its effects in the
         | EU, with a 'right to repair' directive adopted by the EU
         | parliament. Of course it still needs to be implemented into
         | national legislations and the devil will be in the details...
         | it shows the impact though.
         | 
         | https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240419IP...
        
         | WheatMillington wrote:
         | I feel alone on HN for not caring about repairability at all on
         | phones. I use a phone for ~3 years and replace it. I'd rather
         | have a phone that's slimmer and smaller, than repairable or
         | user-servicable.
        
       | drcongo wrote:
       | Samsung should never be trusted for anything.
        
         | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
         | My S22 is pretty great.
        
           | ziml77 wrote:
           | My S24 was returned in a week. Damn thing couldn't even
           | handle showing the mission selection map in Warcraft Rumble.
           | It lagged noticeably behind my finger when dragged around.
           | The Galaxy Watch 6 I got alongside it was even worse for
           | performance. And the clash between Samsung's ecosystem and
           | Google's ecosystem felt terrible. I still want to try coming
           | back to Android from Apple's ecosystem, but next time it
           | won't be through Samsung.
        
             | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
             | Sounds like a defective unit.
        
       | drpossum wrote:
       | Samsung is just consistently frustrating. Their hardware for
       | consumer electronics ( _not_ appliances) is generally pretty good
       | in my experience, but the attitudes they take towards their
       | customers via this planned obsolescence and software /dark
       | pattern "shove it down your throat and you better like it"
       | hostile crap.
       | 
       | I've fundamentally had to change how I work with my phone because
       | of garbage like "just save all the clipboard history, too bad if
       | you don't want that" and "here you'd better like a dedicated
       | button to Bixby" and now "LOOK WE HAVE AI NOW ON YOUR PHONE" as
       | well as being one of the most egregious in the TV data thieving.
        
         | catlikesshrimp wrote:
         | >> "just save all the clipboard history, too bad if you don't
         | want that"
         | 
         | I feel your pain. If you accept a bandaid: change the samsung
         | keyboard to a FOSS keyboard without internet connectivity. The
         | clipboard still exists, at least you can't see it.
         | 
         | A better bandaid would be tasker to flush the keyboard
         | everytime you copy something
        
           | drpossum wrote:
           | That's mostly what I did, yes. This is helpful advice.
           | Password managers like Android Keepass also have non-
           | clipboard functionality in keyboards they provide.
        
         | spondylosaurus wrote:
         | Do newer models not let you remap the "Bixby button" to
         | something else? On my Note 10 I changed it to open the camera,
         | but... it's a Note 10 from 2020, so that may have changed
         | since.
        
           | Iulioh wrote:
           | S23 ultra here
           | 
           | You can totally remap it
           | 
           | You can use another keyboard
           | 
           | You have to look very hard to find the AI (the only use i
           | have for it is delete some objects from a photo and that
           | takes a few tries)
           | 
           | You can literally solve everything in a few minutes
        
             | rschiavone wrote:
             | What if I don't want to deal with these problems in the
             | first place
        
               | Iulioh wrote:
               | Buy another phone?
               | 
               | Buy an iPhone and you don't have to ever wonder if you
               | CAN change something
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | They're not problems. It's a customizable device to this
               | extent, and you have preferences, so just change the
               | settings. The alternative is that you cannot do anything
               | about it.
        
             | spondylosaurus wrote:
             | Glad to know they didn't remove the customizable button
             | then :) I plan on squeezing as much life out of my Note 10
             | as I can but I know its number will come soon enough.
        
               | eichin wrote:
               | Two other data points: I had the note 9, and the button
               | wasn't customizable (you could disable the app and tweak
               | some other things to keep the button from _doing_
               | anything, but you couldn 't remap it, that was new in the
               | note 10.) And having upgraded to the S24 ultra... there's
               | no button any more, just power + volume. (As shipped, the
               | power button does some bixby nonsense, but it's a couple
               | of clicks to make it do power again, and camera on
               | double-click, like it did on all of the previous models.)
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | I stopped buying Samsung phones a while ago when they made them
         | impossible to unlock and install custom roms.
        
           | hnburnsy wrote:
           | You can still remove all the Samsung crap, install your
           | favorite launcher, and use Fdroid. This is what I do and
           | couldn't be happier with a debloated Note.
           | 
           | https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater
        
           | jp191919 wrote:
           | This is exactly why I have a Pixel now
        
           | keyringlight wrote:
           | My impression is this is gradually going by the wayside for
           | all brands, and that's not just on the manufacturer support
           | side but also the breadth of custom roms available to
           | different brands/models. The exception is if you get a Pixel
           | which has 'top tier' support for custom roms and then there's
           | a sharp falloff. Past that point you're into "your mileage
           | may vary" territory with how much feature support is retained
           | or degraded by the rom, and if you're bothered if banking
           | apps require a phone with play integrity or playing hide and
           | seek to pretend it's unaltered.
           | 
           | This is likely just my perspective, but it seems that there's
           | less to be gained from custom roms in recent years anyway as
           | smartphones have matured and the rated of change has slowed.
           | Plus there has been a trend among some brands to offer longer
           | OS support lifecycles, of which Samsung seems to be one of
           | the best for android.
        
             | Zambyte wrote:
             | Smartphones in my life are gradually going by the wayside
             | at a similar rate. I don't have time for computers that
             | fight me by design.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > My impression is this is gradually going by the wayside
             | for all brands
             | 
             | That's my impression as well, and is precisely why my
             | current smartphone will be my last smartphone.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | Only in the US it seems. Non-US models usually have no issue
           | with bootloader unlocking and the custom ROM scene is usually
           | pretty active.
           | 
           | It may trip an e-fuse though, causing some features to be
           | disabled forever. But unfortunately that's the direction
           | Android has taken over the years. Getting stuff like banking
           | to work on a non-stock phone is getting more and more
           | annoying, even for the most hacker-friendly phones. I have
           | stopped with custom ROMs, too much hassle for a daily driver,
           | smartphones are not fun anymore, they are more like
           | appliances than general purpose computers.
        
           | themadturk wrote:
           | I left Android for Apple precisely because I could not stop
           | myself from playing with custom ROMs. I had too many better
           | things to do with my life. Android was fine, but iOS is less
           | distracting.
        
         | bigmattystyles wrote:
         | Side question, are Samsung Electronics and Samsung Appliances
         | really like 2 different companies under a Samsung umbrella in
         | SK or are they actually the same company with employees being
         | able to be assigned / move from group to group? Same question
         | for LG I suppose.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | Samsung is a gigantic conglomerate of hundreds of companies.
           | They also make cars, houses, entertainment, healthcare
           | services, chemicals and of course, yes, shipbuilding.
           | 
           | In the occidental world, we only see a small portion of the
           | iceberg.
           | 
           | So I'd say it's pretty unlikely that employees are frequently
           | assigned from group to group. Maybe it's possible as a big
           | career change but even that seems unlikely.
        
             | komadori wrote:
             | When I visited South Korea some years ago, I took a
             | delightful photograph of bag of Samsung-branded kimchi.
        
               | ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote:
               | I wonder if it would go well with some Volkswagen
               | sausage.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_currywurst
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | You mean Bibigo?
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol
             | 
             |  _A chaebol (UK: /'tSeIb@l, 'tSeIbal/ CHAY-b@l, CHAY-bol,
             | US: /'tSeIboUl, 'dZeb@l/ CHAY-bohl, JEB-@l;[3] Korean:
             | jaebeol [tceb^l] i, lit. 'rich family' or 'financial
             | clique') is a large industrial South Korean conglomerate
             | run and controlled by an individual or family. A chaebol
             | often consists of multiple diversified affiliates,
             | controlled by a person or group. Several dozen large South
             | Korean family-controlled corporate groups fall under this
             | definition. The term first appeared in English text in
             | 1972._
             | 
             |  _The intensity and extent of market concentration became
             | evident as 80% of the country 's GDP is derived from
             | chaebols. The largest of the group, Samsung, exports 20% of
             | South Korea's goods and services alone. Although no longer
             | financially supported by the government, these firms have
             | attained economies of scale on such a massive level that it
             | is extremely difficult for a startup or small or medium
             | enterprise (SME) to surmount the high barriers to entry._
        
             | moritzwarhier wrote:
             | Similar to LG, is that correct?
             | 
             | I have no clue that's why I'm asking.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Yep. It's a Chaebol.
               | 
               | Antitrust really isn't a thing in Asia, so horizontal and
               | vertical integration is extremely common.
               | 
               | Most Asian countries based their corporate structures on
               | Japan's Zaibatsus and Keiretsus.
        
               | deaddodo wrote:
               | LG and Samsung are separate chaebols.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Ik. OP asked if it's "similar" to LG and I explained why
               | - because it's a Chaebol like LG, Lotte, CJ (used to be
               | part of Samsung), Hyundai, etc.
               | 
               | Similar =/= Same
        
               | deaddodo wrote:
               | Ah, I misread it because it's a common misconception. My
               | apologies!
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | No worries! Kinda surprised that people would assume LG
               | and Samsung are the same company
        
               | deaddodo wrote:
               | No, they are both competitive chaebols (a Korean form of
               | conglomerate).
        
               | moritzwarhier wrote:
               | Yes with "similar" I did not mean that they were part of
               | one entity.
               | 
               | I was just thinking about them being large and strongly
               | present in many different business sectors.
               | 
               | So a conglomerate I guess. Thanks
        
             | deaddodo wrote:
             | > They also make cars
             | 
             | Not anymore, Samsung Motors is now a part of Renault.
             | Samsung retains a minority share of the operation.
        
         | gohma231 wrote:
         | As someone that prefers Android, it really is hard to pick a
         | new phone...
         | 
         | * Apple: You're getting iOS. Take it or leave it.
         | 
         | * Google: OK hardware (maybe that's being generous). iFixit
         | parts available. Hopefully you can make 911 calls in an
         | emergency [1].
         | 
         | * Samsung: Great hardware. Good luck getting something repaired
         | if you need it though. OK software.
         | 
         | * Everyone else: You get maybe two years of security updates.
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714579
        
           | voidfunc wrote:
           | I basically seem to waffle back and forth between Pixel or
           | Galaxy phones depending on the year.
           | 
           | I wanted to like iPhone bit I tried it for a 2y period and it
           | was just too different and I ended up going back to Android.
        
           | aleph_minus_one wrote:
           | > * Everyone else: You get maybe two years of security
           | updates.
           | 
           | Fairphone attempts to deliver (also security) updates for
           | quite a long time.
        
           | jkossen wrote:
           | Bought a Fairphone very recently, it's a bit thick, but other
           | than that, it's supported for a long time and repairable. And
           | it seems to work just fine :-)
        
           | Syonyk wrote:
           | Or ditch the smartphone entirely, get some variety of robust
           | dumbphone, and work that out in your life.
           | 
           | I have a Sonim XP3+, running Android 11 Go, I think, but it's
           | just a rugged dumbphone. Waterproof, drop resistant up to
           | some very reasonable distance, and "generally indestructible"
           | for most reasonable and quite a few unreasonable values of
           | that term.
           | 
           | It's good for calls, and texting. And the occasional hotspot
           | use. I carry a decade old laptop for other stuff I need, and
           | use the car's GPS if needed, though since giving up on
           | smartphone maps some while ago, my internal navigation is way
           | better than it used to be.
           | 
           | Irritatingly, US carriers all went to VoLTE at about the same
           | time, turning quite a few perfectly good older devices into
           | ewaste, but I'm hopeful VoLTE works for a long while, and I
           | have a decade or so before I have to think about a cell phone
           | again.
           | 
           | And, yes, I _know_ that  "I couldn't possibly do that for..."
           | reason lists are long. Try it. If nobody resists "having a
           | modern smartphone and being willing to install any random app
           | someplace demands you install," that will be the future we
           | get. I can't even scan QR codes. Life is good!
        
             | babypuncher wrote:
             | I've never met an in-car GPS navigation system that was
             | half as good as what I get with Google or Apple Maps
             | through CarPlay.
             | 
             | And these days car manufacturers are starting to charge a
             | subscription service for it. GM is even going as far as to
             | take CarPlay out of their new cars just to push customers
             | to that subscription.
        
               | Syonyk wrote:
               | I honestly don't really care. I don't use it much. I'm
               | far more likely to bring a (paper) notebook with
               | directions, and that's been working well for me with
               | overview maps beforehand. Yes, it's exercising mental
               | stuff I hadn't used in a while, but it's been worth the
               | effort and occasional "... wait, where am I?" to regain
               | those skills, I think.
               | 
               | I've considered pretty hard picking up a standalone
               | TomTom unit to have newer maps on - the car's maps are a
               | decade old and this is at least occasionally a problem
               | finding newer subdivisions, but I can get close to where
               | I need to be and follow my hand-written directions the
               | rest of the way.
               | 
               | New cars are... a problem. I don't _want_ (rather,
               | "won't buy") a "connected car" sort of thing unless I can
               | disable the cell modem entirely before I leave the lot. I
               | do not want a cell phone on wheels, and this is
               | unfortunately what the automakers seem to have decided to
               | ship, complete with "Buggy? Don't worry, we'll patch it
               | later!"
               | 
               | I'm probably good for about a decade on the current fleet
               | before this becomes a pressing issue, and at that point,
               | hopefully either the absurdity will have subsided, or
               | I'll just do my own work on older vehicles or an EV
               | conversion on some classic chassis. Toyota, at least,
               | seems to have a path for "Seriously, turn off the cell
               | modem..." and a few other cars have a fuse you can pull
               | to kill the cell modem and a few other things. I don't
               | mind if I kill Bluetooth, as long as there's an aux-in I
               | can hook something up to (even if that's a little
               | standalone BT receiver as I have in the car now).
        
           | 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
           | Xiaomi claims five years of security updates for upper range
           | models that came out last year. Specifically I am thinking
           | about Xiaomi 13T which a couple of my friends use. Their
           | newer phones no longer allow unlocking the bootloader,
           | though.
           | 
           | I've been using a five year old hand-me-down 9T and it was
           | recently updated to Android 14 with security patch from May
           | this year. (Thanks to Lineage, of course -- the official
           | support ended in 2021).
        
         | bildiba wrote:
         | I switched from Samsung Galaxy (first S, then S3) to OnePlus
         | years back, and I've been a happy camper.
         | 
         | I currently have an OnePlus 9, I've heard no so good (compared
         | to previous) reviews of their newer models, but I'll cross that
         | bridge when I get there. My current phone has been running
         | great for multiple years, minimal bloatware, would recommend.
        
           | ot1138 wrote:
           | I have a recent OnePlus and it's been excellent. I like it
           | even more than the older ones I had, which is directionally
           | quite different than my experience with Apple and Samsung.
        
           | valiant55 wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm honestly afraid to buy a new phone with all the
           | horror stories. I still have my OnePlus 6T, Oxygen is fine
           | but it seems like the ROM scene isn't what it use to be.
        
           | warble wrote:
           | I have the 10 pro and although the camera is definitely an
           | improvement over the 5 I used to own, the overall performance
           | is about the same. I still have my 5, and use it a lot for
           | POS stuff and it's great still. I even have a OnePlus 1
           | around and it still works decently although it struggles a
           | little with some apps. That's a TEN year old phone.
        
           | magicalhippo wrote:
           | I bought a Motorola G73 5G a few months ago, paid $160 for
           | the 256GB variant including 25% VAT.
           | 
           | Compared to my primary phone, Samsung S21, it's a ridiculous
           | amount of phone for the money.
           | 
           | But I find the default Google apps to be quite limited
           | compared to Samsungs offerings. Google's calculator app has
           | no unit conversion and a very bare-bones "scientific" mode.
           | Google's file app has no way to search for files containing
           | special characters, while Samsung's can do that just fine by
           | using \ to escape the character.
           | 
           | I don't have a SIM in the Motorola as I just use it around
           | the house, other is "work phone", so haven't tested the phone
           | and messaging parts yet, but I recall Samsung were better
           | there too several years ago when my SO had a Sony or
           | something phone.
           | 
           | But yeah, seriously considering getting something else next
           | time around.
        
         | xandrius wrote:
         | Exactly the same. I had to install a script which overwrites my
         | clipboard completely twice a day. I just hate having all the
         | stuff I copied there forever...
         | 
         | And I went ahead and deleted any unwanted apps via adb, at
         | least that was smoother than I expected.
         | 
         | After that the phone is actually nicely usable.
        
         | utensil4778 wrote:
         | Making the _power button_ a dedicated physical hotkey for Bixby
         | is one of the most egregious things I 've ever seen on a phone.
        
       | not_your_vase wrote:
       | Sure, Samsung is bad, but not sure why iFixit pretends to be the
       | embodiment of right to repair. In my opinion they have harmed the
       | cause more than anything else: instead of actual repair material
       | (like schematics or low/high level servicing manuals) they are
       | selling half-devices. And whoever supplies those half devices is
       | called the repairability-king of the day. Neither Nokia, nor any
       | other of their partners are any better. Fairy dust all around,
       | without actual repairability :(
       | 
       | (But I guess it works for everyone: iFixit gets sales, $BRAND
       | gets positive PR. And the customer gets some feel good news. Not
       | actual repairability, but almost as good, I guess)
        
         | islewis wrote:
         | > In my opinion they have harmed the cause more than anything
         | else: instead of actual repair material (like schematics or
         | low/high level servicing manuals)
         | 
         | Not sure I understand this take.
         | 
         | $BRAND's role is to sell devices. IFixit's role is to make
         | repairs more accessible to the average Joe. Obviously for more
         | tech-literate device owners this might not be needed, but
         | everyone else it is.
         | 
         | The incentives for this dynamic are pretty confusing
         | (understandably). $BRAND and IFixit need to work together for
         | repairability to work, but companies don't really have a strong
         | business incentive to do this outside of regulation.
         | 
         | Obviously nothing about this dynamic is perfect, but the claim
         | that IFixit harms the push for more repairable devices just
         | isn't correct.
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | Products are simply built in a way that true low level repairs
         | are impractical (ie: more expensive than replacing the device),
         | and replacing bulk components is the only viable option. iFixit
         | advocates for better repairability that would make individual
         | component repair processes viable.
         | 
         | iFixit is not really about hobbyists doing tinkering repairs.
         | It's for consumers who want more out of their devices and
         | business in the repair ecosystem. That is the bulk of the
         | community and iFixit doesn't have an obligation leave room in
         | the conversation for others.
        
       | cherioo wrote:
       | There are several way different groups are viewing right to
       | repair
       | 
       | Consumer: right to repair means fixing my broken display will be
       | a DIY job for $50? Sweet!
       | 
       | Repair shop: right to repair means I can source a display from
       | lowest bidder, charge $150 for broken screen, and make $120 in
       | profit? Let's go!
       | 
       | Apple: right to repair means you must buy $275 display module to
       | fix a broken display. So we can keep some nice nice profit.
       | 
       | Samsung seems to be there with Apple. Looking at the price of
       | display module I am worried iFixit is also there with Apple. And
       | iFixit and Samsung couldn't find a good split on who gets to keep
       | the profits.
       | 
       | It is crazy that an iPhone display module from iFixit appears to
       | cost more than Apple 1st party repair.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | Based on the post, the high price of parts from iFixit was
         | Samsung's fault.
        
           | Iulioh wrote:
           | And to be fair high end samsung phones have the best display
           | in the market, period.
           | 
           | I would really dubt thwt they sell the best stuff to Apple
           | (possible but...)
        
             | throwaway48476 wrote:
             | Apple only uses old cheap technology. They resisted putting
             | OLEDs in the iPhone for many years.
        
           | epakai wrote:
           | The high price is probably just reality. Samsung's display
           | assemblies have always been expensive. I've seen the real
           | inventory values back in the Note 6 era, and the component
           | cost at repair time. Repair services were probably getting a
           | few dollars from their markup. I'm not even sure the the
           | consumer facing part of their repair operations was
           | profitable. It seemed like most of the focus was on bulk
           | refurbishment where they rebuilt hundreds of $model at once.
           | 
           | Building a 500ppi 120Hz AMOLED display with a hole punched in
           | it, and bonded perfectly to fancy glass is just expensive.
        
             | EasyMark wrote:
             | i think the point is that you start with repairability from
             | the start, otherwise you are just reverse engineering how
             | to take it apart.
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | iFixit parts are expensive because they offer top notch service
         | and quality control, at least in my experience. I bought a
         | couple of parts from them, and was always very happy. The fix
         | kits are fantastic. Once a package was lost, they just sent it
         | again (i ended up receiving it twice).
         | 
         | I've bought parts from other websites, and while they were
         | cheaper, they were not always good quality. A battery seemed to
         | have way less capacity than the oem part, screwdriver bits were
         | so soft they broke on first use, etc.
         | 
         | It sucks that spare parts are so expensive. All those supply
         | chain optimisations don't work if you need to keep parts
         | stocked all over the world....
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | This is obviously anecdotal: I keep wanting to support iFixit
           | and I still come back to them despite their increased cost +
           | shipping compared to Amazon because I believe in good QC from
           | a reputable company and I believe in their mission.
           | 
           | Unfortunately I have been burned twice. First iPod batteries:
           | They seems like they are sitting around forever and are of
           | the same quality as what you'd find on Amazon (they look the
           | same as well).
           | 
           | Secondly I was super excited for their magnetic mat with
           | marker. All the youtubers were promoting it and I snatched it
           | up despite it seeming quite pricy for what you get. The
           | marker failed after 1-2 uses. In both the iPod battery +
           | marker case, they were willing to ship replacements but it
           | takes time and is a hassle and by then the enthusiasm is
           | gone. I walked away thinking _what did I pay extra for?_
           | 
           | Also after using their toolkits for a while, I don't consider
           | their tools top tier quality anymore, just middle of the road
           | and does not seem worth the price (maybe during their black
           | friday deals it is more palatable).
        
             | the_biot wrote:
             | I've had the same impression, unfortunately. You have to
             | like them because of their dedication to the mission, and
             | they've achieved a lot. But I bought a laptop battery from
             | them that didn't last long at all, and (at least at first)
             | their bit sets stripped themselves on first use, and the
             | spudgers might as well have been made out of butter.
        
         | xnyan wrote:
         | > Looking at the price of display module I am worried iFixit is
         | also there with Apple
         | 
         | They mentioned in the article that one of the reasons they
         | ended the partnership with Samsung was over the high cost of
         | repair parts.
        
       | rPlayer6554 wrote:
       | Thank you for standing up to Samsung. I was extremely
       | disappointed that A. Ifixit didn't have even charging ports in
       | stock B. If they did they would be basically the same price as
       | having someone replace it. C. All official and licensed repair
       | spots must replace _all_ components if they even replace one. I
       | have a cracked screen and don't care, but it would have driven
       | the price up to 1/3 or 1/2 the cost of the device. I would have
       | just bought a new one.
       | 
       | I ended up having to get it repaired at some sketch mall shop.
        
       | epakai wrote:
       | Samsung had existing repair partnerships. Many were run by other
       | Koreans, and very much had the feeling of a big family run
       | conglomerate. Of course iFixit is going to get the short end of
       | the stick unless they're providing real value to Samsung.
       | 
       | For Samsung, repair services are valuable to keep carrier
       | customers happy so that the carriers keep pushing their phones.
       | External repair services don't have that tie in. They probably
       | even reduce sales of new phones. iFixit's partnership just
       | doesn't offer the same value proposition.
        
         | mrgoldenbrown wrote:
         | Then why did Samsung pretend they wanted this to happen?
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | Presumably someone from marketing said "we should make our
           | phones more repairable than the competition" and after the
           | program was announced someone from finance said "making
           | phones repairable is too expensive and selling parts isn't
           | making us money"
        
       | hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
       | Ostensible collaboration to frustrate DIY R2R.
       | 
       | My friend's independent, non-certified cell phone and laptop
       | repair business is suffering greatly due to the lack of
       | availability of reasonably-priced repair parts or any repair
       | parts, especially screen assemblies for flagship phones.
        
       | voidwtf wrote:
       | My partner has a Samsung phone with the curved/wrap around edge
       | screen. The screen is cracked. She's been trying to get it
       | replaced for months, but none of the "Samsung approved" repair
       | shops around here can get a screen. Apparently they have screens
       | meant for the same phone in different colors, but do not have the
       | screen for her phone color. Samsung WILL NOT allow them to use a
       | screen from a different color of the same phone, despite being a
       | working part. Samsung has provided no ETA when the part will be
       | available. This is the kind of problem that shouldn't exist.
       | Would love it if our legislators would tell manufacturers to
       | shove it, and if they want to be the exclusive source for parts
       | that the parts must be sold at some limited/reasonable profit
       | percentage and if they're not available they should not be able
       | to limit the availability or function of 3rd party parts.
        
         | will1am wrote:
         | Your frustration with the situation is completely
         | understandable
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | What gets me the most is that the refusal to sell a different
         | color screen is probably the result of some insane delusions
         | about brand representation.
        
           | LouisSayers wrote:
           | Same with charging an apple mouse - like they can't stand the
           | idea of having a cable sticking out of it while being used.
        
             | burnte wrote:
             | They're fine with that, but there's no room for the port on
             | the top end of the mouse and they won't alter the design in
             | order to fit a port there, and don't want the cable
             | sticking out of the side, so they just screw the user and
             | hurt the function.
        
         | mrlongroots wrote:
         | I swore to never buy Samsung after an ordeal with their
         | warranty repair. Some of the data pins on its USB port wore
         | out, so my Android Auto and fast charging became extremely
         | flaky. It was still under warranty so I took it to their
         | authorized repair centres. They did not have a fast charger and
         | showed me that the standard charging was working, and refused
         | to admit a problem. Finally I mailed it to Samsung, and they
         | said that the display needed to be replaced because of some
         | water damage (it worked perfectly fine!) as well.
         | 
         | Finally I got some local electronics repair guy to just solder
         | a new USB port onto the circuit board and that fixed
         | everything. But never buying their phones again.
        
         | cjk2 wrote:
         | Samsung love to kill their brand.
         | 
         | Bought a Samsung washing machine. Completely died in 2 months.
         | Their third party repairer wrote it off and said it'd be a
         | month wait for a new one. Several frustrating phone calls and 3
         | months later no washing machine. Retailer bounced me back to
         | the repairer.
         | 
         | So fuck them all. Chargeback. I will never buy Samsung again.
         | 
         | Edit: also three colleagues bought iPhone 15 Pro phones this
         | time round after Samsung last time. Don't know what happened
         | there but you don't make a switch like that unless you dislike
         | what you had that bad.
        
       | MeteorMarc wrote:
       | "It's with a heavy wrench that we have decided ..." Nice pun when
       | originating from a repair shop!
        
       | unstyledcontent wrote:
       | Glad I just had my Samsung repaired last week by ifixit. I
       | replaced the screen which cost $340. Price for the repair felt a
       | bit like extortion but I needed my phone and it was the least
       | painful option. I could have mailed it into Samsung to have the
       | repair done for $200 but who has that kind of flexibility?
        
       | RachelF wrote:
       | There's a economic reason mobile phone manufacturers don't want
       | you to repair the phone - they prefer you to buy a new one.
        
       | speckx wrote:
       | My last Samsung monitor was great, and it still is. The new one's
       | screen died about a week after I got it. I had better luck
       | returning it to the local store than dealing with Samsung
       | support. The replacement, however, had the same issue about two
       | weeks later. I feel like Smansung has a monitor quality control
       | issue. I didn't even bother dealing with Samsung support.
       | Instead, I gave up and returned it to the local store for a
       | refund.
        
       | cjk2 wrote:
       | I can't wait until they end their recently announced Lenovo
       | collaboration on the same grounds. Absolutely fucking awful
       | vendor in the last few years. Shipping dead batteries, not even
       | shipping anything and having little to no parts stock. And at
       | least here the NBD service is worthless.
        
       | eth0up wrote:
       | I've been 'anti' Samsung for 15 years and generally don't think
       | of the brand. Someone recently gave me a SM-T670 tablet (View)
       | which had lolipop on it. I don't think it ever received a
       | significant update. Well, I tossed LineageOS on it and while it
       | provides some improvements, notably de-ghoulgle and Samsung
       | bloat, the ROM was last updated in 2022 and I'm pretty sure never
       | again.
       | 
       | The only thing I say about Samsung positively, is that they are
       | capable of, but not necessarily committed to, building good
       | hardware. Unfortunately they are the epitome of planned
       | obsolescence and however nice their products may or may not be,
       | they prefer the shortest life possible.
       | 
       | Samsung sucks.
        
       | scott_joe wrote:
       | It's honestly not surprising. Sometimes initiatives from well
       | meaning employees can be given the green light because they're
       | low enough in the company to avoid attention but high enough to
       | get a director's sponsorship. But as soon as the employee begins
       | to get Legal or someone at a VP involved and they'll have to eat
       | the loss on sales, it's killed. 80% of a company's money goes to
       | driving "sales or savings", the rest goes to "keeping the lights
       | on." Being responsive for anything that impacts sales in the
       | negative is a huge deal for everyone in their chain of command.
        
       | scarlehoff wrote:
       | I have a Samsung phone because it is the only brand with a stylus
       | in its flagships, but I, too, would like to end my collaboration
       | with them.
        
       | fallinditch wrote:
       | I had thought that phone manufacturers were coming around to the
       | concept of repairability, so this is bad news. I've had a few
       | Samsung phones and never had any problems. My S22 Ultra is over 3
       | years old now and still an excellent performer. I thought I'll
       | have to change the battery this year - but after checking the
       | instructions I changed my mind, crazy complicated.
        
       | tonetegeatinst wrote:
       | Last 2 phones were Samsung. I got sick of the stock apps being
       | put on the phone so I finally got a pixel running grapheme os
        
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