[HN Gopher] A New Jersey couple survived the Alaskan wilderness ...
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       A New Jersey couple survived the Alaskan wilderness on a homestead
        
       Author : gds44
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2024-05-20 18:38 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | John23832 wrote:
       | They discuss eating bear, just a reminder for everyone that bear
       | meat is a prime harbor for worms and parasites. On top of the
       | fact that, like expressed in the article, it's frankly not good.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | All the toxins in the food chain end up in the apex predators
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | This is why you should be careful eating raw fish.
        
             | bagels wrote:
             | Cooking doesn't remove heavy metals, does it?
        
               | jorts wrote:
               | It does not.
        
           | stcredzero wrote:
           | _> All the toxins in the food chain end up in the apex
           | predators_
           | 
           | Is there an analogy for media and information?
        
             | thsksbd wrote:
             | It's basically the same process, mathematically.
             | 
             | \rant
             | 
             | Each level up increases the concentration of toxin because
             | the n-th level is eating the (n-1) level which has a higher
             | concentration than the (n-2) level that the (n-1) ate.
             | 
             | Similarly, if we posit that _all else being equal_ [1] a
             | sociopath is more likely to go up a hierarchical level,
             | then the nth level is promoted from the n-1 level that is
             | more sociopathic than the n-2.
             | 
             | I also believe that presidential democracies are more prone
             | to this concentration of sociopaths because voting the
             | higher offices is more divorced from the voter (ie you dont
             | know who you are voting for personally and are more easily
             | mislead). Parliamentary (or congressional seats) democracy
             | is more resistant to psychos. Monarchies are immune (except
             | for genetic inheritance), but of course come with their own
             | set of problems.
             | 
             | \rant
             | 
             | [1] a similar assumption is made for toxins.
        
         | hentrep wrote:
         | Your last sentence is subjective. I grew up eating bear sausage
         | and it was delicious. Perhaps owing to differences in black
         | bear diet/meat vs Alaskan bear. This article seems to
         | corroborate my suspicions:
         | https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/bear-meat/
        
           | porkloin wrote:
           | Trichinosis is incredibly common in Alaska's bear population.
           | As with any kind of game meat, thoroughly cooking to
           | recommended temps is highly encouraged. Plenty of people get
           | away with eating undercooked meat for years, but you don't
           | have control over the randomness of what an animal you hunt
           | was exposed to. Trich is no joke and can seriously injure
           | you.
           | 
           | https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=disease.muscle2
           | 
           | > All bear and lynx meat should be considered possibly
           | infected.
        
             | rolph wrote:
             | yeah, game meat really should be well done, thin cuts that
             | get to temperature all through.
             | 
             | organ products, from game are kinda risky.
        
             | doodlebugging wrote:
             | Trichinosis can kill you too. I can't find the story link
             | but I read years ago that one of the few German POWs to die
             | in captivity in the US during WWII at Camp Hearne in Texas
             | died from eating undercooked pork which also sickened a
             | couple of other POWs and maybe one of more of the guards.
             | 
             | With that said, pioneers and mountain men ate bear meat.
             | They preferred bear paws due to the high fat content I
             | think.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | yes your right, the time of year, dictates diet, and general
           | diet influences the meat.
        
           | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
           | > I grew up eating bear sausage and it was delicious.
           | 
           | Isn't sausage the goto thing when you want to take meat that
           | would otherwise be nasty and turn it into something
           | palatable?
           | 
           | I don't think you statement contradicts the parent post about
           | bear meat being not good
        
             | a2tech wrote:
             | Correct. That and chili. I grew up without a lot of money
             | and have eaten every game animal in North America and I can
             | tell you that there isn't any wild game that can beat the
             | cheapest of ground beef for flavor or usefulness.
        
               | petsfed wrote:
               | I disagree, but your odds of having a bad time with game
               | meat are much higher. I liken it to the early days of
               | craft beer. If you wanted an acceptable beer that
               | wouldn't wow you, but never surprise you, you could
               | always drink budweiser. But if you felt like playing six-
               | pack roulette, pick up your local microbrew. Could be
               | awesome, could be terrible, you won't know until you've
               | taken a drink.
               | 
               | Domestic goose is better than wild goose, but grass-fed
               | elk (that is, ranched elk) just tastes like beef.
               | Likewise with grass-fed bison. Truly wild elk has that
               | gaminess to it that I really appreciate. I've a recipe
               | for venison burger casserole that is utterly flavorless
               | when made with ground beef. Bear sausage is only good
               | when its _heavily_ mixed with actual pork, and spiced to
               | hell and back.
               | 
               | Deer and pronghorn that graze on sagebrush actually taste
               | sagey. If that's your jam, its fantastic.
        
               | hiatus wrote:
               | > I can tell you that there isn't any wild game that can
               | beat the cheapest of ground beef for flavor or
               | usefulness.
               | 
               | Not even duck? That is a bit surprising.
        
               | SheepSlapper wrote:
               | As a hunter, I have to disagree. Properly harvested deer,
               | elk, and bear are all amazing, and I'd take any of the
               | three over the lowest common denominator ground beef.
               | Actual cheap ground beef is garbage.
               | 
               | I buy half a cow every year from local farmers, and I'd
               | put my ground elk up against that ground beef any day
               | (though I do have to add suet because elk is so lean). In
               | fact, nobody that I serve elk to knows that it's elk
               | until/unless I tell them.
               | 
               | If your wild game tastes bad, you messed up somewhere
               | along the line. Get it cold as soon as possible, keep it
               | clean, and the meat will be great.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Sounds like you need a better cook. I love game meat and
               | find most ground beef disgusting.
               | 
               | The main advantage of commercially produced beef,
               | chicken, and pork is that you can eat it rare & raw.
        
           | John23832 wrote:
           | > Your last sentence is subjective.
           | 
           | Sure. I think that's stating the obvious though.
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | that smell, when your yard dog, is soaked from the rain, after
         | rolling in fishwaste. thats sorta the smell of cooking bear
         | meat, theres a lot of grease, and fat.
         | 
         | ! Dont Cook it in Your House !
         | 
         | it often ends up feeding sled dogs.
        
         | alfalfasprout wrote:
         | Black bear that feeds on mostly berries, etc. during spring is
         | actually quite delicious.
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | This is NSFL, but there are numerous pictures and videos of
         | bears trailing tape worms from their anus.
        
         | cgh wrote:
         | Your first point is much less of a big deal than you think.
         | Cook it thoroughly (easiest way is to simply grind up the meat
         | first) and you're fine.
         | 
         | I don't agree with your second point. It's pretty good,
         | especially spring bear. That said, I avoid bears that eat a lot
         | of spawning salmon in the fall.
         | 
         | People have eaten bears for literally millennia, especially
         | indigenous North Americans. It's not some recent thing that we
         | are wrong to do. They are a natural prey animal in eg BC, where
         | they live in high densities.
        
           | John23832 wrote:
           | > It's not some recent thing that we are wrong to do.
           | 
           | Who said it was wrong? I said bears harbor parasites (they
           | do), and that the meat is bad (which is my opinion, I guess).
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | A reminder for all the people that are going to accidentally
         | eat some bear?
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | _> In April 1964, Alaska was struck by a magnitude 9.2 megathrust
       | earthquake that devastated much of Anchorage._
       | 
       | This is a sidebar that I think is historically underappreciated.
       | 
       | Take a look at this incredible graphic, which goes up to 2005:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes#/media/Fi...
       | 
       | For the period from 1906 to 2005, half of all the energy released
       | by all recorded earthquakes came from just _three_ events, one of
       | which being the Alaskan quake.
       | 
       | Logarithmic scales are scary.
        
         | brianbreslin wrote:
         | Indonesia having over 2000 earthquakes a year is wild!
        
         | grecy wrote:
         | That earthquake in Alaska cracked swimming pools in California!
        
       | IncreasePosts wrote:
       | Sounds like they _didn 't_ survive the Alaskan wilderness on a
       | homestead, and instead survived in a city or in a provided
       | structure while occasionally heading out into the wilderness and
       | wasting their time producing nothing much of a value.
        
         | fxtentacle wrote:
         | Sounds like they divorced and then the father died in a car
         | accident while trying to make life in the wilderness work. And
         | the mother moved to the city and never came back, which helped
         | her have a long life with her daughter, so probably that was
         | the better decision.
        
           | justusthane wrote:
           | Sort of tragically ironic that he died in a car accident
           | while trying to live outside of modern civilization.
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | Are there any successful tales of Alaskan homesteading? It
         | seems like we fetishize those foolhardy lone wolves like this
         | couple or Alex McCandless from Into the Wild, but where are all
         | those people who moved out there and actually managed to live
         | happy, simple lives?
         | 
         | One of my favorite book series is Woodswoman, about a lady who
         | set out into Vermont to build herself a lakeside cabin from
         | scratch and made a living off maple farming. The several books
         | detail her trials and tribulations, but also her joyful swims
         | and happy encounters with the neighbors.
         | 
         | I would love to hear about more encounters like that in Alaska,
         | not just the people who trek out there but never make it.
        
           | GlibMonkeyDeath wrote:
           | Two examples I can think of off-hand:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke
           | 
           | and
           | 
           | https://www.jeanaspen.com/about-us
        
           | slackfan wrote:
           | Plenty. But here's the rub, most that do do not want to be
           | seen, heard, and care very little for the internet. The life
           | also is not simple.
        
             | octopoc wrote:
             | Yeah a friend of mine married a lady who grew up in the
             | Alaskan wilderness. The family was desperately poor yet
             | still had an airplane, interestingly. They were the kind of
             | people who don't use the internet at all.
        
           | tula wrote:
           | Dick Proenneke is one of the more well-known ones. He built
           | his cabin all on his own, filming the whole process, as well
           | as his life there. He lived in his cabin for thirty years.
           | 
           | https://www.nps.gov/lacl/learn/historyculture/proennekes-
           | cab...
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | Im honestly curious where this hostility is coming from?
         | 
         | Ideas of value are obviously subjective.
        
           | ramesh31 wrote:
           | There's an obsession with the old ways. As if they were
           | better. As if sitting in a cabin in the woods and breaking
           | your back every day to not die of starvation is some kind of
           | accomplishment. It's not.
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | I think it obviously is a difficult accomplishment. I agree
             | that some people probably romanticize the "old ways" and
             | more radical forms of self-reliance, but ultimately it is
             | question of taste and interest.
             | 
             | I have enough experience with it to know it is far harder
             | than most people imagine, but still think there is a lot
             | that I think is positive about it.
        
             | fifilura wrote:
             | Is running a marathon an accomplishment?
        
           | IncreasePosts wrote:
           | I would call it more of an honest statement about what
           | happened there, as opposed to an overly positive one.
           | 
           | Having said that, I do have a long-standing issue with the
           | relatively small group of people who try to go their own way
           | from society without a modicum of understanding about what
           | kind of work and skills will be required. As well as an issue
           | with the larger group of people who cheer on these folks and
           | either enable this behavior or become subject to this
           | behavior themselves.
           | 
           | Where do my feelings on the subject come from? Well, "into
           | the wild" was required reading my freshman year of college.
           | And I was forced to engage in dozens of discussions treating
           | McCandless as a tragic hero, instead of an idiot.
           | 
           | My issue isn't necessarily with people wanting to get away
           | from mainstream society, but it is going about it in an
           | absolutely boneheaded manner. I have an immense amount of
           | respect for people like dick proenekke
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | That makes sense, and I share your sentiment about the
             | naiveite and idiocy for some of these people. that is to
             | say, I think the dream of self-reliance is a noble one, but
             | simply holding a noble ideal doesnt make someone
             | praiseworthy. Execution speaks volume.
             | 
             | I think what I was most reacting to was your statement
             | "wasting their time producing nothing much of a value". I
             | took this to mean value to the greater community, and I
             | strongly disagree that this should be the main benchmark
             | which people should be judged against. It strikes me as
             | oddly entitled to their labor.
        
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