[HN Gopher] Coding My Handwriting
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       Coding My Handwriting
        
       Author : tobr
       Score  : 733 points
       Date   : 2024-05-19 17:15 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.amygoodchild.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.amygoodchild.com)
        
       | ch33zer wrote:
       | The art at the end is quite beautiful. I wonder if the next step
       | is putting this into a real font so that you can type with it in
       | any program...
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | If you already have curves, you can do that quite easily (maybe
         | tediously, if you have to/want to do it manually).
        
           | jacob019 wrote:
           | Yes, but she uses different glyphs depending on which letters
           | are next to each other, not sure if that is supported.
        
             | adeon13 wrote:
             | You could use ligatures:
             | 
             | https://fonts.google.com/knowledge/glossary/ligature
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | Yeah, even "normal" fonts have ligatures (a couple common
               | ones in many fonts are fl and ti though they don't appear
               | to be used in the font being used to render this
               | comment), so this is definitely no technical obstacle if
               | one really wants a font. Obviously a bunch of work to
               | create, but pretty cool to have!
        
             | abdullahkhalids wrote:
             | Fonts have supports for that. I know that the Urdu Jameel
             | Noori Nastaleeq font, has hundreds (maybe more) of complete
             | words hardcoded into the font.
        
             | Ra8 wrote:
             | Arabic language letters change based on their position in
             | the word. And there's multiple fonts for it.
        
         | jacob019 wrote:
         | Indeed, I love how she's blending technology and art here.
        
         | Lalabadie wrote:
         | Plottable fonts are a thing! They're different from the
         | "normal" font we think of, because they need to be a path to be
         | traced instead of an outline to be filled.
        
       | sandreas wrote:
       | There is a very cool youtube video with something similar from
       | Stuff Made Here:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQO2XTP7QDw
       | 
       | Was very fun to watch and he also explains the trials and errors,
       | he did.
       | 
       | There is also a link to a very interesting repository of
       | handwriting synthesis: https://github.com/sjvasquez/handwriting-
       | synthesis
        
       | firewolf34 wrote:
       | Wow, that bit at the end really sold it. Very cool
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | I wonder if anyone's tried making a joined-up monospace font
       | before.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | It looks like the Victor Mono italic font is semi-joined.
         | 
         | https://rubjo.github.io/victor-mono/
        
         | srik wrote:
         | Toshi Omagari's Tabulamore is the most gorgeous connected
         | monospace font I've seen so far. The rest of the fonts in that
         | tabular type collection aren't connected but still pretty good
         | fonts and they're all steals at the price he has them listed.
         | 
         | https://fonts.ilovetypography.com/fonts/tabular-type-foundry
        
       | vessenes wrote:
       | Type nerd reading the first part of the article "ugh oh my god
       | the kerning oh ouch"
       | 
       | Nerd reading the whole article and looking at the crazy cool
       | letter-form art at the end "wowwww".
       | 
       | Worth reading the whole article just to look at what an artist is
       | doing with her tools from start to finish!
        
       | betenoire wrote:
       | that's cool, I wish I had writing good enough to want my own font
       | :)
       | 
       | < 14.5, but if I switch this to a default size of 200, the point
       | could be defined as 145, removing one character (the decimal
       | place).
       | 
       | I see a function called "adjust". I don't know font specs, but
       | what if this were serialized differently? 0,{x:12.2,y:13.2} ->
       | 0,[12.2,13.2] and transformed in the "adjust" function?
        
         | naikrovek wrote:
         | Like any skill, handwriting can be improved with a bit of
         | effort.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | I am really confused about the point of joining letters not
       | matching up. The whole point of cursive to me is that you do not
       | take your pen off the paper, so the way to join letters is built
       | in. Author seems to have had issues because she's not actually
       | writing that way?
       | 
       | That said, I really enjoy the whole rest of this writeup for just
       | being the simplest possible way you can go about drawing a bunch
       | of letters on screen without messing with fonts :)
        
         | anamexis wrote:
         | The point, which the author discusses at length, seems to be
         | that different letter pairs match up in different ways, which
         | needs to be accounted for.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | No they don't. At least in my cursive writing. Line from end
           | of last letter to beginning of next letter is _always_
           | correct, since you don't take your pen off the paper. That's
           | not different between the code and the reality.
           | 
           | If your letters look wrong it's because you are starting them
           | in the wrong place. Or because you take your pen off the
           | paper. Letters either end in the bottom right or top right,
           | and begin in the upper left. A straight line should always be
           | correct.
           | 
           | The issue with the a that looks like an e is because the
           | author is trying to start writing her a on the left side of
           | the character.
        
             | anamexis wrote:
             | Obviously the letters connect, but where a given letter
             | ends depends on the following letter, and where a given
             | letter starts depends on the previous letter.
             | 
             | For example, in standard American cursive, b, o, v, and w
             | have a top exit stroke, whereas the rest of the lowercase
             | letters finish on the writing line. Combine this with the
             | letter a, which has a top entry stroke, so the oa will join
             | at the top, whereas ea will join from bottom to top.
        
               | Aeolun wrote:
               | I don't see how this matters? They're splines right? Just
               | quickly writing those down I see a very minor variation
               | in how they connect, but ultimately that variance'd be
               | hardly noticable.
               | 
               | Regardless, the end of the o or e, to the beginning of a
               | is still a straight line.
        
               | anamexis wrote:
               | The article gives explicit examples of where just
               | connecting them with a straight line does not look right,
               | and is noticeable.
        
               | Aeolun wrote:
               | Absolutely, and that's how I can see that it has more to
               | do with the form of the letter than the fact that joining
               | without adjustment is impossible.
               | 
               | Anyhow, I doubt we're going to convince each other here.
               | Since the tool is right there I might just give it a try.
        
               | anamexis wrote:
               | At this point I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about
               | :)
        
             | RedNifre wrote:
             | Interesting. In the 90s in Germany I learned that for some
             | letters you lift the pen, even though the result will look
             | connected, e.g. "ac" would lift after the a, draw the c
             | leftwards, touching the end of the a and then swing around
             | to the next letter, kinda like this, but leaving no gap
             | between the letters: /C
             | 
             | Also, t would be disconnected with itself, being written
             | like /| followed by a - overlapping the |
        
           | codingdave wrote:
           | I'm wondering if cursive has been taught differently over the
           | last few decades -- I was taught in the 70s, and at that time
           | the instruction was that letters always start and end at the
           | same point. That instruction clearly does not match up to the
           | article or some comments, but rather than quibbling over
           | which of us is correct, I'm more curious how the teaching may
           | have changed over the years?
        
             | anamexis wrote:
             | In the 90s, I learned D'Nealian cursive:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Nealian
        
             | monknomo wrote:
             | Yes, there are lots of different styles of cursive that
             | have been taught at various times and places over the last
             | 100 years
             | 
             | there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencerian_script and
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaner-
             | Bloser_(teaching_script) and
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Method and
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Nealian
             | 
             | probably more.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | For an extra data point, I was taught in 1995.
             | 
             | Zaner-Bloser looks the closest to what I was taught, but is
             | not a perfect match.
             | 
             | I think I suffer from 'what I was taught is correct'
             | syndrome. Of course multiple ways can be correct, but it
             | certainly does address the 'not matching up' point
        
         | pushedx wrote:
         | every pair of letters join in a different way
         | 
         | it's similar to kerning with even non-joining fonts, you need
         | to encode how various sequences of letters appear
        
           | euroderf wrote:
           | Is it possible to encode (in some existing program) for
           | letter pairs where each code point is the right-hand side of
           | the first letter of the pair plus the left-hand side of the
           | second letter in the pair ?
           | 
           | I ask because upper-case Finnish has lots of really gnarly
           | whitespace/kerning issues. Letter pairs like LJ and KY and YT
           | and VY that could get special attention, even stroke joining,
           | in a font such as I describe.
           | 
           | So a fragment like " KEVYT." could be encoded as (spc +
           | lh-K), (rh-K + lh-E), (rh-E + lh-V), (rh-V + lh-Y), (rh-Y +
           | lh-T), (rh-T + period).
        
         | devjab wrote:
         | > The whole point of cursive to me is that you do not take your
         | pen off the paper, so the way to join letters is built in.
         | 
         | This is both correct in the way you word it here, and,
         | incorrect regarding your interpretation. The connection between
         | letters in cursive is context-dependent. A "b" followed by an
         | "a" or an "o" will likely have variations since it improves the
         | readability of what you write. Similarly there are times where
         | you might not want to keep the pen on the paper between letters
         | within a word, which doesn't break the "rules" of cursive.
         | 
         | You may have been taught differently and maybe your teachings
         | were correct. I'm not aware of any form of cursive where
         | connections are not supposed to be context-dependent though.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | It would be tough to model and/or mollify my handwriting in code
       | or even ML because it really just depends on the day, and that's
       | not usually a model input ;D
       | 
       | (TL;DR: it's somewhat inconsistent)
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | I am pretty convinced that coding my handwriting could be
       | considered a one-way hash; there is no way to decipher what the
       | hell I was trying to say when reading it.
        
         | wriggler wrote:
         | Sounds like a challenge! https://www.handwritingocr.com :)
        
           | Xeyz0r wrote:
           | That's a good one!
        
             | wriggler wrote:
             | Thanks!
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | Awesome find. https://www.amygoodchild.com/blog
       | 
       | The HN homepage has two brilliant articles from Amy. The website
       | is now on my RSS Watchlist. There are quite a few interesting
       | articles about the soothing existence between Art and
       | Programming.
        
       | deanresin wrote:
       | This is really cool. I would love to have that power of typing my
       | handwriting.
        
         | petepete wrote:
         | My handwriting is crap, I'd much rather type hers!
        
           | BanazirGalbasi wrote:
           | Improving your handwriting is pretty simple, it's just mildly
           | time consuming. I journaled for a month and just focused on
           | how I wrote each letter. At first it took me half an hour to
           | fill an A5 page - but my handwriting looked so good! It only
           | took a month for my muscle memory to pick up the adjustments,
           | and now I can write quickly and legibly in cursive.
           | 
           | I tell everyone who mentions bad handwriting the same thing.
           | Buy a cheap journal, grab a pen you like, throw on something
           | to listen to (music, a podcast, the news, a game stream,
           | could be anything) and just write. What you write doesn't
           | matter, just focus on putting down each letter exactly as you
           | want it to look, and take your time.
        
             | monknomo wrote:
             | I did the same thing, and really focused on opening up
             | loops and getting ascenders and descenders straight, and it
             | made a huge difference
             | 
             | I just picked one of those all the letters in one sentence
             | phrases and practiced on that during phone calls
             | 
             | Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow
        
       | asp_hornet wrote:
       | An awesome project and great write up. This is what i come to HN
       | to see.
        
       | maCDzP wrote:
       | Cool project using Processing, I've always wanted to play with
       | that.
        
       | mgaunard wrote:
       | What I find most shocking is that this is not cursive at all,
       | just print with some kind of cursive joinery.
       | 
       | s and z in particular look completely different in cursive, and
       | b, f, l, k, and even h should also look quite different from this
       | too. m and n are missing the extra arm.
       | 
       | Do Americans genuinely not know what cursive looks like? I
       | understand it's been removed from their education for decades.
       | 
       | I do recognize however that the final result does indeed look
       | quite close to natural print-style handwriting -- just don't call
       | it cursive.
        
         | skinbody wrote:
         | There is no "one cursive"
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive. It looks to me that hers
         | would be under the Italic family. I personally changed my
         | handwriting to a similar style and find it much more legible.
         | 
         | Depending on the country you have studied in, you might have
         | learned a particular style of cursive. For example, in the UK
         | they teach joined writing https://nha-handwriting.org.uk/wp-
         | content/uploads/woocommerc....
        
           | dhoe wrote:
           | It's just not cursive. This is not controversial, there was a
           | huge debate ~15 years ago when cursive instruction was
           | removed from the curriculum in the US.
        
             | xpe wrote:
             | What is the point of arguing definitions in this case? It
             | seems you think one thing. The Wikipedia article says
             | another.
             | 
             | Are you claiming there is only one internally-consistent
             | way of defining terms? Hopefully not.
             | 
             | Do you think that definitions exist "out there" as
             | objective realities? Hopefully not, as they exist in your
             | head. On what basis is the definition in your head better
             | than Wikipedia's? Or vice versa?
             | 
             | Are you claiming definitions are determined by authorities?
             | Hopefully not. What do you think the editors of
             | dictionaries themselves have to say about that? As I
             | understand it, they view themselves as collecting popular
             | usage.
             | 
             | Does popular usage serve as the "proper" and "fixed"
             | definition? If so, does that mean usage {1, 10, 100, 1000}
             | years ago was wrong?
             | 
             | Are you making some kind of statistical claim; e.g. "most
             | people would think that cursive is..."?
             | 
             | The trope of "No, Thing X is not Y, see Source S" is rather
             | myopic. There is often no disagreement once you speak
             | clearly about what you _mean_.
        
           | mgaunard wrote:
           | Wikipedia itself calls it "semi-cursive".
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | No it doesn't. The only time "semi-cursive" is ever
             | mentioned on that page, or the subpage for it itself is
             | when talking about Chinese calligraphy.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-cursive_script
        
               | mgaunard wrote:
               | The description of "italic script", that the parent
               | claimed was "one of the many types or cursive",
               | explicitly says
               | 
               | > Italic script, also known as chancery cursive and
               | Italic hand, is a semi-cursive, slightly sloped style of
               | handwriting and calligraphy that was developed during the
               | Renaissance in Italy.
        
         | bravetraveler wrote:
         | The joinery, and the lack of it, are what makes cursive,
         | cursive. Also makes the definition nebulous.
        
         | Syzygies wrote:
         | Various childhood experiences convinced me that adults were
         | stupid. One was wearing a belt I didn't need, because that's
         | what one did, and scratching my Dad's guitar. This cost me a
         | career of sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
         | 
         | I rejected cursive after one year, reverting to printing
         | despite all pressures. I couldn't see any upside to cursive. It
         | was harder to read, a concession to lazy adults with poor motor
         | control. A few years later I won a penmanship contest.
         | 
         | What I want to do with these ideas is automate turning
         | computer-generated animation into animation with a hand-drawn
         | life, using machine learning to tune the parameters to express
         | my tastes.
         | 
         | This is all connected: My brother and I were fascinated when we
         | learned how animation worked. I then found myself deathly bored
         | in an hour of school penmanship printing practice, so I worked
         | on animating letter F's turning into letter G's, and so forth.
         | The teacher left me alone until other kids asked what I was
         | doing, and I taught them. She swiftly collected all papers,
         | went to get a primitive projector that barely escaped
         | incinerating our work, and praised various students'
         | penmanship. My collaborators were trembling that they'd be
         | chosen next. We didn't yet understand that one attempts to stop
         | a revolution by cutting off the head.
         | 
         | I was stunned to realize that the ridicule didn't hurt. These
         | experiences helped me learn to think independently as a
         | mathematician.
        
         | 91bananas wrote:
         | Americans genuinely do know what cursive looks like, and it's
         | still taught to this day, source 3 kids who know how to write
         | in cursive but weren't taught be me. Maybe broad inaccurate
         | generalizations are the issue here, not American's cursive
         | learnin'.
        
       | calini wrote:
       | This would have been SO useful in school!
        
       | naikrovek wrote:
       | this is awesome, and some excellent eye-bleach against the 3M
       | article I just read.
        
       | certik wrote:
       | Beautiful! I would like to see more cursive handwriting fonts.
       | Here is my contribution from 2 years ago:
       | 
       | https://certik.github.io/slabikar-otf/
        
       | robertclaus wrote:
       | It was interesting to read the comments about how many different
       | cursive styles there are.
        
       | kentosi-dw wrote:
       | This is pretty amazing. I would love to get my hand-writing as a
       | font!
        
       | Xeyz0r wrote:
       | I'd be lucky to have it during my school time
        
       | thefaux wrote:
       | This is one of the best things I've seen on this site.
        
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